I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

uplanderguy

Here's the '84 Caprice Classic optional instrument panel:

https://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/chevy/84ci/bilder/4.jpg

Here's the Parisienne instrument panel:

http://www.oldcarbrochures.org/United States/Pontiac/1984_Pontiac/1984-Pontiac-Full-Line-Prestige-brochure/slides/1984_Pontiac_Full_Line_Prestige-58-59.html

The Pontiac wheel looks better IMHO, but I think the rest of the panel is identical.

I do think the Pontiac has the newer-style radio with clock in it, but on the other hand that leaves a piece of hard crinkle-cut black plastic at the top of the center of the panel, between the AC vents, where the old clock would be.

ab348

Bad link there on the Pontiac IP, try this:

http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/Canada/Pontiac/1984 Pontiac Parisienne Brochure/image4.html

uplanderguy

Thanks. That was the first link I tried to post, and then posted that much-smaller page next to the wagon in the brochure. Yours is much-clearer.

berri

Hadn't realized they changed the IP from the late 70's Bonneville. I see what you're talking about.

ab348

I never understood the Pontiac/GM thinking in deleting the fullsize Pontiac in the early '80s. I liked the styling of the Pontiac and the dashboard was better than the Chevy's too. Here's an '81:

andre1969

I think Pontiac might have stayed fairly popular in Canada, but in the United States, it was dealt a crippling blow during the first oil embargo. And while Chevy, Olds, and Buick recovered, and went on to remain popular cars, vehicles like the Pontiac LeMans, Catalina, and Bonneville just never regained their pre-embargo popularity.

They sold well enough to be kept around, for awhile, but when the second fuel crunch hit, sales fell fast. For 1981, I think Pontiac sold around 90,000 LeManses and 100,000 Catalinas and Bonnevilles, combined. They figured the big car was dead, at Pontiac, at least, so they got rid of the B-body Catalina/Bonneville, gave the LeMans a heavy facelift, and tried to pass it off as a Bonneville.

In Canada, they still called it "LeMans", even though it looked like the United States Bonneville-G. And, IIRC, for 1982, since the "real" Catalina/Bonneville went away, that's when Canada started depending on the thinly-disguised Impala/Caprice that they started calling Parisienne. One interesting difference though, is that I believe there was a Parisienne coupe for 1982, in Canada. In the US, I believe the Impala/Caprice coupes were dropped for 1982. The Impala coupe would never return, but I think the Caprice coupe came back in '84 or '85, in the US.

Pontiac as a whole dipped down to around 300,000 units for 1983, and GM was seriously considering dropping the brand, entirely. To put it in perspective, for '81, Pontiac had sold around 500K, around 700K or so for 1980, and around 800-900K for '77-79. So, it fell hard, and fast. In contrast, Olds and Buick stayed pretty strong, even in the dark days of the early 80's. There was a couple years in there were Olds actually outsold Ford, and even Buick did it at least once.

Also, sometimes I wonder if GM was actually considering ditching the B-body in general, and trying to pass off the A/G body as a "downsized" full-size. If you notice, the '82 Malibu looks an awful lot like a baby Caprice...much more than the '81 did. Same for the '82 Regal and Cutlass sedans...they looked like they could have been passed off as a baby LeSabre and Delta 88. My guess is GM was thinking about doing the Bonneville-G treatment to the other lines, but backed off, as those other cars continued to sell fairly well. And then, in '83, as big car sales started to rebound, GM realized they muffed up in ditching the big Pontiacs, so they brought the Parisienne down from Canada.

uplanderguy

The Impala coupe was last seen as an '81, and the Caprice coupe as an '82; no Caprice coupe for '83 but reintroduced as an '84. The one my Dad was looking at was the first one our little hometown dealer got in as an '84. The Malibu coupe disappeared afteer '81, and the Citation Club Coupe also disappeared for '83 and was reintroduced for '84 (I think I have that right). Buckets and console disappeared in the Monte Carlo in '82 and '83 and were reintroduced for '84. Some weird product decisions for sure.

I really don't like the '80 revisions to the full-sizes, but for some reason I've been liking the '80 Bonneville coupe, as pictured above (no optional body side molding; no overkill pinstriping around wheel openings, etc.). I wish a 350 was still offered in an '80. I'm loving the bucket-seat-and-console option; reminds me of mid-sixties Grand Prixs.

tjc78

ab348 said:

I never understood the Pontiac/GM thinking in deleting the fullsize Pontiac in the early '80s. I liked the styling of the Pontiac and the dashboard was better than the Chevy's too. Here's an '81:

I've never seen a console and bucket seat Bonneville like that.

imidazol97

I've never seen one of these. Never.
At first I thought it was something someone cobbled up as a novelty.

ab348

Mercury pickups were sold in Canada until the late 1960s.

imidazol97

Are they commonly in classic car shows in Canada?
The history I read said some were sold in the US, but I never knew they existed. I never saw one in rural Indiana/Ohio back in the 60s and 70s.

ab348

tjc78 said:

ab348 said:

I never understood the Pontiac/GM thinking in deleting the fullsize Pontiac in the early '80s. I liked the styling of the Pontiac and the dashboard was better than the Chevy's too. Here's an '81:

I've never seen a console and bucket seat Bonneville like that.

They couldn't have made very many. Would be a cool find today.

Olds made some buckets-and-console Delta 88 coupes in the late '70s/early '80s in the Holiday 88 model. It used the seats and console from the Cutlass Supreme.

stickguy

Chasing classic cars I think featured an older (50s maybe?) mercury PU. in Connecticut.

stickguy

Like this one.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xKYEb7kHsYI

ab348

imidazol97 said:

Are they commonly in classic car shows in Canada?
The history I read said some were sold in the US, but I never knew they existed. I never saw one in rural Indiana/Ohio back in the 60s and 70s.

I wouldn't say "commonly" but there are some around. I know there is one locally, a '67 or '68 type, that makes appearances from time to time at shows.

jwm40517

Out for lunch today & saw a black Toyota MR2 for sale on my street and 2 yellow ones in the restaurant parking lot.

ab348

Wiki has some background on Mercury trucks along with a few interesting pictures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_M_series

xwesx

jwm40517 said:

Out for lunch today & saw a black Toyota MR2 for sale on my street and 2 yellow ones in the restaurant parking lot.

Hit the trifecta! In one day... what are the chances?

jwm40517

All three were within half mile radius. They all looked good & well maintained.

stickguy

I would buy a clean used MR2.

ab348

Between my various health problems, and projects going on around here earlier this year, I haven't been able to get the Cutlass out aside from taking it out of the garage while work was being done on the building. Tonight was a nice evening, not too hot, and after having washed it a few weeks ago it was quite presentable so I took it out for a shakedown cruise. That is the most amazing car, having not been driven since October, it started right up and drove like it was used just the other day. I took it to a cruise-in for an hour or so and lots of people commented on it. Even got a thumbs up from a white-haired lady in a SUV on the way home and a pedestrian engaged me in conversation while sitting at a stoplight. All good..

ab348

Somehow, I think @fintail might not approve of this. Maybe I'm wrong though.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1960-mercedes-benz-300d-cabriolet-d/




Firefox has gone back on strike against image posting, so strike-breaking Chrome to the rescue.

stickguy

that must be a car that costs a mind numbing amount of money to restore.

fintail

I don't mind the mechanical restomod bits, but those headrest screens gotta go.

stickguy

the S/C and trans upgrade seem like good ideas (if you want to actually use the car, not just display it). But agreed that those screens were a bad idea. What, are a couple of 5 YO kids going to be taking 6 hour rides back there?

tjc78

At least the screens should have had a cover over them like the head unit.

I think it’s a really nice build otherwise

PF_Flyer

An acquaintance bringing a '54 Kaiser Manhattan home

berri

Getting a bit old by 54, but Kaiser was really ahead of the styling curve when those first came out. Biggest complaint I heard about Kaiser's was only a 6 cylinder and it was sometimes prone to vapor lock. It should bring some attention at the old car shows.

PF_Flyer

How about a Studebaker ambulance from today's background movie?

omarman

Spirit of St Louis with Jimmy Stewart. First solo, non-stop transatlantic flight from NY to Paris in 1927. So the Studebaker ambulance maybe from the same year?

I watched Harvey last night and some of Anatomy of a Murder before going off to bed.
They don't make 'em like that anymore.

kyfdx

omarman said:

Spirit of St Louis with Jimmy Stewart. First solo, non-stop transatlantic flight from NY to Paris in 1927. So the Studebaker ambulance maybe from the same year?

I watched Harvey last night and some of Anatomy of a Murder before going off to bed.
They don't make 'em like that anymore.

Caught the last 15 minutes of Harvey..

uplanderguy

Drove the Cruiser to the nearby Bellacino's cruise-in. For ab348, took this pic of a '68 Cutlass Supreme that I thought was very nice. I love stock but Cragars seem so period-correct they don't bother me a bit--quite sharp.

This car had bucket seats with a column-shift Turbo Hydra-Matic.

Back when I'd hang around at the Chevy dealer in the '70's and I'd see a Chevelle or Monte Carlo or Nova with buckets and column shift, I always thought that when the car was being ordered, the customer, and probably the dummy salesman, thought that bucket seats automatically got you a console and floor-shift. Not so at GM then!

I did talk to a second owner of a '72 Monte Carlo at Hershey several years back whose car had that setup. He said the female original owner told him she knew what she wanted--a place to stash her purse between the seats so avoided the console on purpose. I still think somebody like her was the exception!

uplanderguy

This is a car that if someone told me about it I'd probably not be much interested, but it was quite nice in person--an honest-looking, probably original-paint '69 Firebird convertible with 3-speed floor shift.

ab348

That Cutlass Supreme is nice, although the vinyl roof is aftermarket. The moldings on the bottom edge meeting up with the rear window are not factory.

That Firebird convertible is very handsome. I love the colors, especially being a convertible and it having the proper white interior!!

xwesx

ab348 said:

That Firebird convertible is very handsome. I love the colors, especially being a convertible and it having the proper white interior!!

My thoughts exactly! It is a handsome car.

texases

We had a '69 Cutlass with the same color scheme. Very nice, fast to me, a 16 year old.

fintail

Whitewalls on the Firebird are also a nice period touch.

ab348

When I was out running errands downtown today I was surprised to encounter a beige ‘76 Olds Cutlass 4-door like this one in traffic. It appeared almost as nice too.



The car shown is an original owner 17,000 mile example.

https://youtu.be/JtkP-6D0FMc

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

Back when I'd hang around at the Chevy dealer in the '70's and I'd see a Chevelle or Monte Carlo or Nova with buckets and column shift, I always thought that when the car was being ordered, the customer, and probably the dummy salesman, thought that bucket seats automatically got you a console and floor-shift. Not so at GM then!

Mopar was the same way, and I imagine Ford and AMC were, as well. My 1969 Dodge Dart GT hardtop had bucket seats, but a column shift Torqueflite. Actually, in the case of the Dart GT, I think buckets were standard on the hardtop, but a bench was standard on the convertible. The convertible was kind of narrow in the back, so I think they did it that way to let the convertible claim 5-passenger seating.

andre1969

That '76 Cutlass S was pretty nice. The S was the cheapest Cutlass, wasn't it? It actually looks nice, in my opinion, for a low-end model. For instance, I don't think any Chevelle that year had carpeting on the lower door panels, not even the Malibu Classic. The LeMans didn't have carpet on the lower doors either, although the Grand LeMans did. I know that's just a minor touch, but as years went by, it was getting harder for GM to keep their established brand hierarchy going. It was usually pretty easy to make a Pontiac, Olds, or Buick feel like a step up from a Chevy, but often the B-O-P cars just seemed like alternate choices, rather than any one being nicer than the other. But, at this point at least GM seemed to be doing a pretty good job at making them distinctive.

uplanderguy

I was never crazy about the sloped grille on those later 'S' model Colonnades.

I always thought it was funny that the four-door Century and Cutlass models retained the '73 styling, but the coupes got a beneath-the-beltline revision in '76 and '77.

I remember local folks complaining about those Cutlasses like the one pictured, getting a lot of stone chips right behind the front wheels and right in front of the rear wheels.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I was never crazy about the sloped grille on those later 'S' model Colonnades.

Nor was I. It was confusing because I have also seen the squared-up new style (Supreme?) grille on 4-doors. I could see the slanted version on 2-doors but why it was also on 4-door seems odd.

I always thought it was funny that the four-door Century and Cutlass models retained the '73 styling, but the coupes got a beneath-the-beltline revision in '76 and '77.

I remember local folks complaining about those Cutlasses like the one pictured, getting a lot of stone chips right behind the front wheels and right in front of the rear wheels.

I thought that was a bad decision by the GM bean-counters not to update the sedan styling. It didn't look great on the Cutlass but looked downright awful on the Buicks.

andre1969

I do prefer the more formal, upright Cutlass grille to that sloped off affair, but I still think the sloped one is, well, "interesting", at least! As for updating the styling, with the way personal luxury coupe sales were beginning to take off, I think that's why GM put a focus on making the Cutlass Supreme and Regal look as modern as possible, and put more effort into re-skinning the whole thing. But, since the lesser Cutlass and Century models were very close in style to the Supreme and Regal (at least moreso than, say, LeMans versus Grand Prix or Chevelle vs Monte Carlo), it made sense to carry those changes over to the cheaper versions as well.

The 4-door sedans and wagons weren't the huge sellers that the coupes were, though, so that's probably why GM didn't put the same effort into them. I did like the fact, though, that they at least went through the effort to put modern '76 front-end on the sedans and wagons as well for the Cutlass. Somehow, I'm not so sure that the '76-77 coupe front treatment would look quite right on the Century/Regal sedans or the Century wagon, mainly because the rest of the car is a bit too swoopy and curvy...but I'm not so crazy about the stacked headlight treatment, either. When stacked headlights started coming back into vogue in the 70's, for me it was all about their placement. I don't like them on an LTD-II, because they look too far inboard. But I don't like them on the Century/Regal either, because they're too far outward! But on something like a Monte Carlo, Chevelle, or Fury/Monaco/Cordoba, I don't mind them.

I think Pontiac did a pretty good job with the '76 facelift of the LeMans and Grand Prix. Somehow, it seemed like they were able to work in the more squared-off look and the rectangular quads without having to mess with the rest of the sheetmetal. At least, I'm pretty sure the fenders and doors are the same. I think they did have to change the hood slightly, though...at least on the LeMans. And, there was something about the shape of the Chevelle and Monte Carlo, in the first place, that it seemed fairly easy to work in stacked headlights without messing up the overall look too much.

PF_Flyer

Heh... I may need to direct my acquaintance with the '54 Kaiser to CCBA based on his most recent posting on FB

uplanderguy

One thing I like that Olds and Buick did in the '76 and '77 Colonnade coupes, was retain the large, trangular quarter windows, which were a boon to visibility and added some airiness to the small back seat. Most people seem to not like those, but I do. Buick and Olds still offered pretty nice interiors with that quarter window availability--I think Buick still offered a front center armrest, optionally.

I could like one of those Century coupes without the side striping so prevalent those years, and with optional wheel opening moldings and the gorgeous Buick road wheels. I don't believe I've ever seen one like that in person though.

andre1969

Here's a few production stats, for the '76 Buick midsize...
Coupes:
-Century Coupe and "Special" Colonade Coupe (a stripper): 59,448 combined
-Century Custom Coupe (the one that had the more formal, Regal-type roof): 34,036
-Regal Coupe: 124,498
Total Buick coupes: 217,982

Sedans:
-Century Sedan: 33,632
-Century Custom Sedan: 19,728
-Regal Sedan: 17,118
Total sedans: 70,478

Century Wagon: 16,625.

The Century and Special coupes were the ones that had the large, triangular window. I wonder though, if the small opera window, or the louvers, were offered as an option in '76-77? I always thought it was a shame that the LeMans dropped the big triangular windows after '75. But, the LeMans was falling from grace by that time, so I guess it made sense for GM to start cutting back on some of the variations to save a little money.

fintail

Was out early today and had a Ferrari 308/328 not far ahead of me. I tried to catch up to get a better look, but the car between it and I was a plodding white MDX typical of the generic somewhat overmonied eastside Seattle cloned drone demographic, and it got up to maybe 42 mph on the on-ramp. By then the Ferrari was long gone.

On a better note, the local MBCA gathering is this weekend - My car is on the internet again. Hopefully the weather will hold, mixed bag in the forecast, unusual for this statistically dry time.

uplanderguy

andre, I'd say that most Century coupes I saw in '76 and '77 had a vinyl top with the same opera window used on '76 and '77 Chevelle Malibu Classic coupes. But I do remember in the brochure seeing the triangular windows.

Davercee

Hmm, I'm afraid I haven't seen that before.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

andre, I'd say that most Century coupes I saw in '76 and '77 had a vinyl top with the same opera window used on '76 and '77 Chevelle Malibu Classic coupes. But I do remember in the brochure seeing the triangular windows.

Yeah, I looked at the brochures, just to see if they showed the fastback version with the opera windows, but they only showed the big triangular windows. Just out of curiosity, I googled "1976 Buick Century Coupe" and the majority of them were either the Custom, with the more formal roofline, or the fastback with the triangular windows. However, I did come across this...

http://smclassiccars.com/buick/39914-1976-buick-century-base-coupe-2-door-57l-350ci-2bbl-carb-less-than-80000-orig.html