I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 16,982
    How could Tourtellott's Auto have 2 brand-new '77 Impala 2-doors for $3395?

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,880
    edited May 28
    Well, today was an historic moment for me today...look what I did!
    The Ram was around a half tank, so it only took 14 gallons, but I filled up a couple of gas containers for the lawn equipment, and it got me to that $100 cutoff.

    I was going to take the DeSoto out and fill it up tomorrow morning, but I haven't been approved for a second mortgage yet :p

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 45,913
    I actually saw a Tribeca out driving around last week. first time in ages. IIRC is was a 1st gen version.

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  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaMember Posts: 15,852
    Stations around here have bumped up their credit limit to $160. :/
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,542
    How could Tourtellott's Auto have 2 brand-new '77 Impala 2-doors for $3395?

    Agree. Impossible at that price...unless they were like the one '74 Monte Carlo that had its roof ripped open under a railroad underpass in my hometown, a mile from the dealer.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,880
    Here's something you don't see every day... 1979 Plymouth Arrow on Facebook marketplace
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 207,786
    I almost bought a '77 model, before settling on the Cobra II.

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  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 5,720
    andre1969 said:

    Here's something you don't see every day... 1979 Plymouth Arrow on Facebook marketplace

    @roadburner didn’t you have one of these? of course not automatic.

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  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 15,842
    edited May 29
    Yes; mine was a GT- it had the 2.6 liter motor, five speed, and discs at all four corners. Fun- and fast for its day.

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,979
    Yup, seller never said what condition the cars were in. Brand new 2 year old cars always raise an eyebrow.

    How could Tourtellott's Auto have 2 brand-new '77 Impala 2-doors for $3395?

    Agree. Impossible at that price...unless they were like the one '74 Monte Carlo that had its roof ripped open under a railroad underpass in my hometown, a mile from the dealer.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,979
    Cool hen's tooth, in this inflationary age, maybe not entirely unreasonable - try to deduct 10-20% and probably a fair deal if one is into it, good luck finding another nearly as nice.
    andre1969 said:

    Here's something you don't see every day... 1979 Plymouth Arrow on Facebook marketplace

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,542
    '71 or '72 Delta 88 with no A/C and no radio.

    I'm impressed that there just wasn't a filler blank pushed in a hole for the no radio.

    May be an image of car
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTMember Posts: 17,475
    Probably a one off done very nicely in Black,
    A Dodge Rampage done up in Shelby Turbo trim.
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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 45,913
    i like the Arrow, but the AT is a non-starter. And I think the overly wide rear tires are silly on it.

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,979
    edited May 30
    I posted this in the Mystery Car Pics thread some time ago - this is exactly the kind of building where one expects to take delivery of their new 66 Toronado:

    image

    The Seattle area continues to grow and change, land becomes more valuable for other uses, this was posted to a history group today:




  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,080
    Great pic of that Olds dealer from the 1960s. I was just in Seattle visiting my Mom, and wow there has been a lot of construction there in the last 20 years. A lot of the old city has vanished house by house, and block by block. A lot of the new buildings are good, and certainly allow more density, but they tend to be a bit on the cold modernist side in terms of their designs.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,542
    edited May 31
    Friend just brought over some of his past CA magazines for me to read. I am in love with this '66 Pontiac Star Chief Executive hardtop coupe, last year a Pontiac was called a 'Star Chief', and has the 421 and those wonderful optional full wheel covers too. 10K of these hardtops built in '66, but small potatoes compared to Catalina, Bonneville, and Grand Prix hardtop coupes.

    I'd say that car was ordered by the original customer. Someone, apparently, wanted the long wheelbase but perhaps didn't want the Bonneville's skirts but wanted the protection of a side molding, NA on a Bonneville.


  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,880
    The skirts are one detail I never did care for with the Bonneville, and I'd rather have the open wheel well. I think the '65-66 look pretty good with them though...they work with that sleek, chiseled look. But the '67 and later models were definitely chunkier, and I think the skirts just made them look even fatter.

    It wouldn't stop me from buying a Bonneville, if I found one that turned me on otherwise, but it's just one of those details I don't really care for.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,542
    edited May 31
    On '66's, I always really liked the individual "EXECUTIVE" and "VENTURA" block letters on the front fenders, as opposed to that huge, poofy "Catalina" script there.

    Funny, in '66 only, the Ventura Custom option on the Catalina got you skirts.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaMember Posts: 15,852
    That's quite the juxtaposition of images, @fintail ! The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,979
    I call much of this cheap new modernism "mcmodern". It's usually the same mix - greyscale, a few somewhat clashing forms of cladding, maybe a cantilever roof or clerestory window, some sharp angles, the same skinny font address numbers, etc. Taller buildings will just be a windowed box with maybe some odd shapes thrown in. I guess it adds interest for a low investment.

    Many Seattle area old timers (that is, there before Y2K maybe) bemoan the changes, but that's what happens when population growth is insane and there's only so much developable land. Of course, if you ask some of these people if they'd trade the development away for not having their insane real estate equity, you won't get much agreement, some areas aren't behind trendy CA places in terms of housing cost and appreciation.
    benjaminh said:

    Great pic of that Olds dealer from the 1960s. I was just in Seattle visiting my Mom, and wow there has been a lot of construction there in the last 20 years. A lot of the old city has vanished house by house, and block by block. A lot of the new buildings are good, and certainly allow more density, but they tend to be a bit on the cold modernist side in terms of their designs.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,542
    edited June 1
    I was back in my small hometown (population now about 5K proper, in the town limits, but about seven or so miles of townships in each direction where people consider themselves from the town). The economy there never recovered from the loss of heavy industry in the '90's, but still a quiet, green town in a valley. How so many buildings remain unchanged always blows my mind, and now I only live an hour-and-a-half west of there; totally different vibe though. I like the 'old' vibe.

    Post office, where my Dad worked. A WPA project in the early thirties. For the size of the town, pretty neat. Andre, this was when I mailed that envelope to you:




  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,542
    edited June 1
    The old Rutter's Body Shop, the north side of the Bessemer and Lake Erie passenger station (last used for passengers in 1955), and the side/rear of the original Mayer Motor Company, Hudson dealer through 1957 and now owned by the town's Water Company.







  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,542
    Here's the Lutheran Church. Never been inside but hear the stained glass windows are beautiful.

    Not sure how, but in the '70's, in this little town that was not a suburb, the parents of Watergate figure John Dean, and the parents and sister of actor David Soul, lived in the town. I can only guess this was due to the small college in town, Thiel.

    Anyway, Soul's parents (the Solbergs) went to church here. Rumor would get around town when David was back to visit, and the word was attendance was double normal on those Sundays.


  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,542
    I could like retiring there. I'd be going by myself if I did though, sigh.

    Their little historical society is looking for weekend docents this summer. I'm so tempted but I get the hairy eyeball for even mentioning it.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,542
    edited June 1

    Yellow and black '55 Ford Sunliner, in Memorial Day parade in the city I currently live. Later I saw it in the cemetery with the hood open. :)

  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaMember Posts: 15,852



    Post office, where my Dad worked. A WPA project in the early thirties. For the size of the town, pretty neat. Andre, this was when I mailed that envelope to you:



    The Conneaut post office has a similar appearance and feel to it. They even still have the old windowed PO boxes with the lettered rotary dials on them! It was so amazing to go in there - like walking back in time. I told the lady who helped us, "This place is incredible! Please, if there are talks of updating the boxes or decor in here, DON'T LE THEM DO IT!"
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,979
    Those depression era neoclassical buildings must have been a great make work project across the country, they are seen in diverse locations.

    The post office in the small town where my mom lives, I think this also has the old fashioned PO boxes intact:



    And almost across the street, the similarly styled city hall, both showing maybe a little art deco/moderne influence:



    Speaking of 55 Fords, saw a mild custom 55 (I think) Ford wagon on the road yesterday.


    I was back in my small hometown (population now about 5K proper, in the town limits, but about seven or so miles of townships in each direction where people consider themselves from the town). The economy there never recovered from the loss of heavy industry in the '90's, but still a quiet, green town in a valley. How so many buildings remain unchanged always blows my mind, and now I only live an hour-and-a-half west of there; totally different vibe though. I like the 'old' vibe.

    Post office, where my Dad worked. A WPA project in the early thirties. For the size of the town, pretty neat. Andre, this was when I mailed that envelope to you:

  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 5,720

    Dark green 95/96 Maxima SE. Looked decent navigating rush hour traffic.

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  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyMember Posts: 13,752

    @sda said:
    Dark green 95/96 Maxima SE. Looked decent navigating rush hour traffic.

    They used to be everywhere.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,880
    edited June 2
    It just hit me...I don't think I've seen ANY generation of Maxima on the streets, in recent memory. Although with the latest model, they look an awful lot like an Altima to me, so they could be out there and I just don't notice them.

    But yeah, I remember when that '95-99 Maxima was everywhere. The previous models ('89-94 and '85-88) were common sights for awhile, too. I liked the '89-94 style a lot. The '00-03 style seemed common for awhile, but I wonder if by that time, the Altima was starting to cannibalize some of its sales. And then when they came out with that "buck toothed" style for 2004, it sort of lost its charm with me.

    I liked the 2009-2014 (2015?) style Maxima, and can remember actually being a bit enamored with it at the time. But, when I look at pics of them now, whatever allure they had to me seems lost. Isn't the Maxima supposed to be discontinued in the near future? If it hasn't been, already?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,542
    I liked late '80's Maximas I think....clean down the sides, and wall-to-wall taillight. First car I can remember seeing in a pearlescent white.

    I wasn't crazy about whatever years looked just like a model of Infiniti. Last time I rode in one, my coworker picked me up at my house for us to drive across PA for work and before we left my town, his 'Check Engine' light was blinking, so we took my Cobalt instead.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,542
    edited June 2
    News story today (ugh). I'd say someone took some liberty and airbrushed that vertical divider strip away:John Hinckley, Jr., accused assassinate of President Reagan, sits in the back of this motioned vehicle outside the federal court in DC shortly after asking for permission to visit his family for Easter without supervision, Jan. 1, 1990.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,542
    RE.: Conneaut--haven't been there in a good long while, although a friend lives in Geneva not too far from there. I see Conneaut's population is more than twice Greenville's now...I knew it was always bigger; just never knew how much.

    fin, that second building reminds me of a smaller version of the Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg Museum.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,880
    edited June 2

    News story today (ugh). I'd say someone took some liberty and airbrushed that vertical divider strip away

    There was an episode of "Columbo" where they did that. I'm sure most people wouldn't notice, but my eye goes right to it...
    Oddly, it looks like they took the divider strip and window glass out of both rear doors on this fox-based LTD!

    This was one of the later episodes, done in the 90's. Kinda cool that, even that recently, first-gen Mustangs were still a somewhat common sight. And I see a late 60's Suburban back there, too. That has to be fairly rare.

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 16,982
    edited June 2
    Back around the end of March we had discussed the downsized '62 Plymouth, what the original full-size models could have looked like, and the Curbside Classic articles that covered that subject. Just within the last week or so, Adam of the Rare Classic Cars YouTube channel had his friend Mark with his '62 Plymouth 4-door hardtop talking about its design and expounding on what had happened during the design process and how those cars (according to him) led to Plymouth giving up its traditional spot as one of the "low-priced three".

    Last night when I was looking for some bedtime reading I pulled a random copy of Collectible Automobile off the shelf, the April 1995 edition. I must have only read it once when I first bought it because I have no memory of any of the articles it contains. It has a lengthy article on the '62-'64 Plymouth which contains some new information I haven't heard mentioned before.

    No question that the finny '57 Plymouth sold like gangbusters - the article quotes a figure of 729,369 units. That far exceeded any number they had ever achieved before. Plymouth did about 500,000 units a year between the 1949 to 1951 model years before dropping off, then rebounding to between 500,000 and 600,000 a year for '55 and '56. After the quality problems for '57 became known, combined with the 1958 recession, '58 sales were 433,989 and '59 resulted in 458,061 units. The article then goes on to discuss the original proposals for the '62 models, including the bizarre asymmetrical proposal with different design features on either side of the car. The author, John Katz, frames that as Exner trying to find something that would be the next big thing knowing that fins were no longer a winner.

    Where the article gets interesting is when it delves into the office politics at Chrysler during that time. William Newburg, then a Chrysler Executive V-P, misinterpreted some chatter he heard at a weekend social event from Ed Cole that Chevy was going to downsize their big cars, when in reality Cole was talking about something else. The piece quotes Bill Brownlie, then a stylist under Exner who later rose to executive ranks himself, as wondering why nobody questioned this piece of news given how well Chevy was doing with their big cars, but apparently nobody did except Exner. But Exner's main ally, Chrysler President Tex Colbert, was under fire for corruption within Chrysler's executive ranks and had his power reduced, leaving Newberg calling the shots and Exner mostly out in the cold.

    A lot of the above has been written about elsewhere, but what is new to me was that Newberg then issued some very specific orders to the design and engineering people for the crash downsizing program they had to execute. This included things like a width no more than 72 inches between the door posts, a wheelbase no more than 116 inches, no curved side glass, limits on total glass area and bumper size, limits on bright moldings and metal-finishing of body seams, and even body-sharing with the Valiant/Lancer. The original full-size proposals for the '62 models were ordered to be junked, so there would be no turning back. You can only imagine how design and engineering reacted to that sort of micromanagement. As one person was quoted in the article said, "It got so bad...the engineering division, to protect that 72-inch (width) dimension... developed a four-man police force to come over to styling to measure every drawing! It was a really nasty few months... total chaos, because things were changing by the moment".

    Colbert, by this time neutered, stepped down as President in April 1960 and was replaced by Newberg. But in July, those same corruption charges were made against him, and Colbert returned to the President's office. Newberg then tried to get Colbert fired by making charges of corruption against him as well. Soon Colbert was gone again, opening the door for Lynn Townsend, from Chrysler's accounting firm Touche Ross, to take the Presidency. It was Townsend who initiated another crash program to bring the cars back into the mainstream for '63.

    The article says Townsend gave Exner assurances he would not be held responsible for the '62s, but when they were so poorly received by dealers and the public, someone had to wear it other than the departed Newberg, and Exner was fired in November, 1961, not long after they were introduced. It goes on to discuss how Townsend then hired Elwood Engel away from Ford to replace Ex. It tells a story about his first few days in the building after Exner had left. Looking at the proposed '63 redesigns, he reportedly said to Townsend "These are good-looking cars. What's the big deal?"

    The '62 models were indeed a sales disaster, selling just 182,520 units, not much different than the bizarre 1961 from what I can determine. The revised '63 boosted that to 263,292, and the '64 improved on that, increasing to 297,293 units. But even at that, you could argue that the assertion by Mark in Adam's recent video that these marked the end of Plymouth being a competitor in the low-priced three segment was true. But they overlook the '65, once again a full-size vehicle, did great business, selling over 300,000 copies. The bigger problem Plymouth was facing was the 1960s competition from Pontiac, who were building a very appealing product in that era which Plymouth just could not match. Starting in '62 Pontiac went on a roll, selling over 500,000 copies, then by '64 they were almost up to 700,000 annual production, and in '66 they went past the 800,000 mark. They were a juggernaut, and Chrysler had no chance of competing. I would suggest it wasn't the '62 Plymouth that led to that make's later woes, but Pontiac.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,880
    I don't think there's really any one thing that was responsible for torpedoing Plymouth, but more a combination of factors. One problem was that Chrysler's divisions were reorganized for 1960. In 1959 and earlier, there were few, if any, stand-alone Plymouth dealers. They were almost always paired with Dodge, DeSoto, or Chrysler/Imperial. Normally, this wasn't a problem, as those other divisions were a notable step up. Although, I could see there being a bit too much competition between Plymouths and Dodges on the same showroom for '53-54.

    In 1959, for example, the top Plymouth 4-door, a Fury was $2691, with a standard V8. The cheapest Dodge 4-door was the Coronet, at $2587, but it came standard with a 6-cyl. If you wanted the V8, it was $2707. But then above that, Dodge had the Royal and Custom Royal, while Plymouth had the Savoy and Belvedere on the cheaper range, so there really wasn't much overlap. Oh, Plymouth did have the Sport Fury that year, offered only as a hardtop or convertible (the only Plymouth convertible) and standard with a 318-4bbl, but it was fairly low production.

    For 1960 though, they changed the structure, merging Plymouth, DeSoto, and Chrysler/Imperial, and leaving Dodge on its own. To compensate the Dodge dealers, they got the Dart, which copied the full-sized Plymouths model-for-model, (Seneca/Pioneer/Phoenix to Savoy/Belvedere/Fury), but were much easier on the eye (although that can be subjective) and only priced about $20-30 more. The Dart lineup essentially replaced the old Coronet, while Royal/Custom Royal were renamed as Madator/Polara.

    The Dart was a smash hit, and managed to outsell the full-sized Plymouths that year, although Plymouth as a whole still beat out Dodge, when you add in the Valiant. The Matador/Polara didn't do so well, although it's a bit difficult to tell how they did compared to the '59 Royal/Custom Royal. My old car book lists roughly 14,807 Royals and 21,206 Custom Royals, as opposed to 27,908 Matadors and 16,728 Polaras. However, for 1959, station wagons were a separate series. Dodge sold 17,719 Sierras and 5,871 Custom Sierras.

    For 1960, there was a Dart Seneca wagon, a Dart Pioneer wagon, a Matador wagon, and a Polara wagon. But my book doesn't break out individual production figures for '60. I imagine the bulk of the '60 wagons were Darts, though, and the Matador/Polara wagons were pretty rare. Plus, the Polara wagon was actually a hardtop, which probably made it even more low-production.

    Sometimes I wonder if things would have been better, if Mopar had come out with the shrunken '62 models, as intermediates, like what Ford did with the Fairlane and Meteor, but made more of an effort to keep their big cars around? Although, to do that, they would have had to cheapen the midsized cars, as they were priced more or less like standard-sized cars. And from what I've seen/heard of the proposed '62 big cars, they probably would have failed miserably. If they made a big '62 Dodge look more or less like the Custom 880, from the get-go, maybe it wouldn't have done too badly, but that was an after-the-fact, stopgap measure. I'm sure a big '62 Dodge, designed on the normal styling schedule, would have been a disaster.

    While Pontiac is normally viewed as a step up from something like a Plymouth, by '62 they were actually pretty close in price. A '62 Fury 4-door was $2,670, if you got the optional 318-2bbl V8. But a Catalina, with a standard 389-2bbl, was only $2,796 for the 4-door. By that time Dodge had changed the Dart lineup to Fleet Special/330/440. The top Dart 440 4-door sedan was $2691, again with the optional 318.

    Dodge's Polara that year was limited to a 2 or 4-door hardtop and convertible. But, the 4-door hardtop was $2960. Meanwhile, the Catalina Vista 4-door hardtop was slightly less, at $2936. However, in this case, the Polara was sporting a somewhat hot 361-4bbl with 305 hp. The standard 389-2bbl that would have come with a base Catalina manual shift only had 215 hp! However, I'd imagine most of them had the automatic, where it had 267. If you moved up to the 389-4bbl, you got 303 hp with a Catalina automatic.

    The Catalina was definitely a lot of car for the money, and its easy to see why Pontiac, in general, was such a hot brand in the 60's.
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 5,720
    Rust seemed to be a common issue with late 50s Chryslers yet GMs seemed to rust too. When dad traded his 59 Catalina for a 63 Olds Dynamic 88 in 65, the 6 yr old Catalina’s rear floorboards had rotted and the transmission was acting up. I don’t know how many miles it had at the time, I was 6, but I remember dad saying the car should have lasted longer. He really liked the Catalina and didn’t care much for the 88 as he found the front seat uncomfortable.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,880
    Interesting, that there would be a notable difference between the seats of a '59 Catalina and '63 Olds 88. But, the divisions had enough autonomy back then, that there could be subtle differences. I always forget which years had which frames in that era, but I think the '59 Pontiacs used an X-frame, while a '63 Olds used a perimeter frame? I would think the perimeter frame would've allowed for a lower floor, and greater seat height in the Olds, but maybe that wasn't the case?

    I like the looks of the big '61 Oldsmobiles. I've heard they weren't that popular though. They had sort of a trim look to them, especially compared to the models that had come before. But I think buyers were put off because the cars might not have looked substantial enough. Up front, the grille/headlight area looks a bit small, in relation to the overall width of the car, and that's a look that can be hard to pull off. But for some reason, I kinda like it. Overall the car seems like it's stuck in transition, with a bit of that jet age/space age 50's style still trying to hang on, to a car that's trying to be more trim and conservative. There was a lot of that still going on in the early 60's, although Pontiac seemed to shake off those 50's excesses earlier than most.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,542
    My friend's '63 Riviera has the X-frame, but other than that, I don't know which divisions had a full-perimeter frame versus what still used the X-frame. I know Chevys had the X-frame through '64.

    I also very-much like the '61 Oldsmobile two-door hardtops. There's a light green one I've seen pics of somewhere lately, that looks nice. Styling is very clean.

    All the '61 GM two-door hardtops make me think of "The Jetsons"....the glassy greenhouses I guess.

    For some reason, I don't notice the short hood/long deck styling on the Buick-Olds-Cadillac cars like I do on the longer-wheelbase Pontiac models. While I like the three-round-taillights on each side of the '61 longer Pontiacs, I can't hack that rear overhang.

    I don't like the cantilever rooves on the four-doors, of any of the divisions.

    In '62, I like the Bel Air Sport Coupe, but as we've talked about, I'm not convinced there's one out there that hasn't been converted to 409, 4-speed, and dog-dish caps. Make mine a 327 with whitewalls and full wheel covers. I sincerely don't believe such a car is out there anymore.

    I know people like the '62 Starfire, but it (and the '61, too, now that I think about it), has way too much going on down the body sides for me. I like the Grand Prix concept better--plain down the sides, maybe with a rocker molding.
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 5,720

    I thought I had a better picture of dad's 59 Catalina but can't find it. I did find this one. We lived in Baltimore for about 6 months while dad was supervising a bridge construction. Mom wrote on the back of the picture 3807 Mary Ave, Baltimore, 1964. I just googled that address and the townhouse is still there but not real pretty.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,880
    I'm thinking that Olds never used an X-frame. In fact, I think Olds, and Buick, started off in '57 with a perimeter frame that had an X-member for added strength. At some point though, the X portion might have gotten dropped, and then I think the '61-64 Buicks did use an X-frame.

    I believe Cadillac used an X-frame from '57-64 (or '65 if you count the limo/commercial chassis?), but it was beefed up compared to the Chevy X-frame.

    I want to say Pontiac used an X- in '58-60, but then went perimeter from '61-64.

    Oh, another interesting little variance. Since the Slim Jim transmission was physically smaller than the older HydraMatic, I believe the floor pans were different. Catalinas (and early Grand Prixs) of that era used the Slim Jim, and had a slightly smaller transmission hump than Star Chiefs and Bonnevilles, which used the older 4-speed Hydramatic.

    So, in an odd twist of fate, in that Slim Jim era, even though the Catalina was a smaller car, you actually got a bit more interior room than if you bought a larger Star Chief or Bonneville! Or, rather, a slightly more comfortable center front seat position, at least.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,880
    edited June 3
    As for that extra overhang, on the C-bodies, I think you actually got a bigger back seat area compared to the B-body, so some of that extra length was hidden in the passenger cabin area. But even on something like a B-body Olds, I think they did a good job of integrating the extra length. Here's an example...

    It looks like the rear axle is moved back a bit, in relation to the back door, compared to a Chevy. It looks like the wheel opening cuts less into the door. But where Pontiac goofed it up on the Star Chief and Bonneville, is that they move the axle a few inches further back than this even, but uses the same door as a Catalina, so you just have a wider section of metal between the door and the wheel opening. Then, of course, Pontiac just stuck a few extra inches, at the back, as well, which made it look more awkward.

    Here's a Star Chief, for comparison. Not the most glamorous example, but it shows pretty clearly how they just pulled the axle back and filled in...

  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 5,720
    andre1969 said:

    I'm thinking that Olds never used an X-frame. In fact, I think Olds, and Buick, started off in '57 with a perimeter frame that had an X-member for added strength. At some point though, the X portion might have gotten dropped, and then I think the '61-64 Buicks did use an X-frame.

    I believe Cadillac used an X-frame from '57-64 (or '65 if you count the limo/commercial chassis?), but it was beefed up compared to the Chevy X-frame.

    I want to say Pontiac used an X- in '58-60, but then went perimeter from '61-64.

    Oh, another interesting little variance. Since the Slim Jim transmission was physically smaller than the older HydraMatic, I believe the floor pans were different. Catalinas (and early Grand Prixs) of that era used the Slim Jim, and had a slightly smaller transmission hump than Star Chiefs and Bonnevilles, which used the older 4-speed Hydramatic.

    So, in an odd twist of fate, in that Slim Jim era, even though the Catalina was a smaller car, you actually got a bit more interior room than if you bought a larger Star Chief or Bonneville! Or, rather, a slightly more comfortable center front seat position, at least.

    And the rough shifting fragile Slim Jim. I remember in mom’s 63 88 the shift from 1-2 was distinct, a bit of a jolt, then the engine would lug a bit until it got up to more speed, the 2-3 shift was normal and smooth. The 394 Olds V8 had no trouble running 80 mph all day. That seemed to be dad’s cruising speed when he was driving on the interstate, typically when we were traveling on vacation.

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,880
    edited June 3
    sda said:

    I thought I had a better picture of dad's 59 Catalina but can't find it. I did find this one. We lived in Baltimore for about 6 months while dad was supervising a bridge construction. Mom wrote on the back of the picture 3807 Mary Ave, Baltimore, 1964. I just googled that address and the townhouse is still there but not real pretty.

    I just google mapped it, out of curiosity. Hey, it still has all its windows, there's no trees growing up through where the roof used to be, no garbage strewn around, and all the cars parked on the street seem to be tagged, and no boots. So by Baltimore standards, that's practically Beverly Hills! :p

    And, back in 2009, the neighbors had a pretty nice Grand Marquis...


  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,542
    edited June 3
    For some reason, this exact picture is taken at just the angle that seems to show off that rear overhang at its worst, LOL!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,979
    That era of GM sedans always makes me think of Jennifer Grey's parents car in "Dirty Dancing":



    re: Baltimore, my grandmother's family was from there. I recall a couple of my great aunts lived in 40s era townhouse/row house style places that reminded me of Lemko's house in Philly, and a great uncle lived in a neat Victorian style brownstone that would be worth a bajillion dollars in NYC. I have a feeling all of those places aged poorly (they all moved on or passed away 25+ years ago).
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 5,720
    fintail said:

    That era of GM sedans always makes me think of Jennifer Grey's parents car in "Dirty Dancing":



    re: Baltimore, my grandmother's family was from there. I recall a couple of my great aunts lived in 40s era townhouse/row house style places that reminded me of Lemko's house in Philly, and a great uncle lived in a neat Victorian style brownstone that would be worth a bajillion dollars in NYC. I have a feeling all of those places aged poorly (they all moved on or passed away 25+ years ago).

    Yep, 63 Olds Dynamic 88.

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,542
    edited June 4
    Interesting '76 Grand Safari on the 'All Original Cars' FB page. Well-loaded example, although I don't think the vinyl top added anything to these wagons. I love the herringbone upholstery but I'm surprised it doesn't have the 60/40 front seat. My bet is that the herringbone wasn't available with the split seat. Chevy did weird stuff like that--certain colors NA on the split seat, etc.
    May be an image of car
    May be an image of car and outdoors
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 5,720
    edited June 4

    Interesting '76 Grand Safari on the 'All Original Cars' FB page. Well-loaded example, although I don't think the vinyl top added anything to these wagons. I love the herringbone upholstery but I'm surprised it doesn't have the 60/40 front seat. My bet is that the herringbone wasn't available with the split seat. Chevy did weird stuff like that--certain colors NA on the split seat, etc.
    May be an image of car
    May be an image of car and outdoors

    I agree, the lack of the split bench is puzzling as it seems to have essentially every option. Pontiac did a nice job dressing up the dashboard with rich looking faux wood and clear, crisp instruments. It looks better than the similar dash in dad’s 71 and 73 Catalina. The steering wheel is the same as what I had in my 76 Sunbird, though mine was medium blue.

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

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