I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

roadburner

There's a body shop on my way to work that has three moderately interesting cars for sale- a late '80s Corvette, a late '80s 300ZX, and my favorite, a 1970 240Z.

stickguy

I would not mind a late C3 or an early Z, with the appropriate tweaks to make them useful. the ZX, nah.

fintail

240Z prices are strong. Even when I was a young driver they were $2500 used cars, much more now.

ab348

texases said:

@ab348 - some folks seemed to think anything that could be copied was fair game, legal or not.

Yes, and that fellow was one of them along with several other members who used to work for GM/Olds and were apparently bitter about the shutdown of the brand. It was my impression that some amount of printed material was liberated during the closing out of operations and was destined to end up on that site, not just ads/promo stuff but also technical documents. A cursory look into copyright law told me that a 50-year term of protection is common, with some being 100 years. As a govt employee at the time, getting mixed up with big corporations like that for a hobby site wasn’t going to happen. Of course the guys soliciting the material and promoting that site could not care less about that. It was no fun.

explorerx4

I guess I opened up an old wound there, didm't have a clue and didn't mean to.

roadburner

stickguy said:

I would not mind a late C3 or an early Z, with the appropriate tweaks to make them useful. the ZX, nah.

Just before my girlfriend (now wife) found the 1973 Bavaria I wound up buying I had looked at a 1973 914 2.0 and a 1974 4 speed 454 Corvette coupe; the twists and turns my life might have taken...

andre1969

That 1985 test of the Monte SS, Grand National, and 442 is kind of interesting. While I knew the Grand National was the quickest, I'm surprised that the Monte didn't seem all that far off, but the 442 seemed to lag somewhat noticeably.

I was thinking the Grand Nationals would be more like 6.0 seconds, but I think that might have been the 1986 only, which had more like 235 hp. And I remember one of those mags getting a 4.9 second 0-60, and calling "the worlds fastest automatic" or something like that. However, I also recall them saying that 4.9 second time was a fluke, and don't expect that consistently. I don't know if the car was specially prepped, or weather conditions were just right, or a combination of factors, but I think they said expect more like 6.0.

I wonder if the Olds 307 had a narrower, more peaky, power/torque band than the Chevy 305? And one thing I noticed, is that it actually lost a few ft-lb compared to the regular, 140 hp version. That one had 255 ft-lb. I've also heard that the 442 had a beefier rear end than the Monte SS. I forget the exact nomenclature, but something like a 10-bolt vs a 9-bolt? I don't know if that, by itself would make a difference, but I have heard it used as a partial excuse, at least.

I'm also surprised that the Monte SS is about the same length as a regular Monte. With that extended, sloping nose, I always figured it was longer, but I guess it's just a visual trick. Basically, what it gained in nose extension, it lost in bumper protrusion.

sda

I remember reading that article and being surprised how poorly the 442 did overall. I still have that CD issue amongst many others in a box in the attic. That was when CD was really good and not the junk it is today. I’m trying to be diplomatic.

uplanderguy

I like the 442's wheels best of the trio.

I hadn't realized that the 442's bucket seats were still the style introduced in '78. The Buick appears to have its own seats, and the Monte buckets were a new style for '84 and later, with separate adjustable headrest.

I had a deposit on a dark plum '85 SS but backed out and ordered the same color two-door Celebrity Eurosport instead. One reason I backed out was that I'd already had '81 and '82 Monte Carlos, and the first was stolen and never recovered, and someone tried to steal the '82 but was apparently stopped in-progress. And I was moving from greater Atlanta back to greater Cleveland, where the first two Montes I had were violated. I also remember not liking how the 4-speed auto SS shifted.

I never liked how the striping on the SS was kind-of wide, especially around the wheel openings (corrected IMHO for '87). But still, both then and now, I didn't care for the boy-racer graphics. I'd like the underpinnings with the regular-car styling and trim.

The 442 had a stand-up hood ornament. I always think "pffft" about those. I was glad that even on the LS version of the Monte for '86 and later, they dropped the stand-up hood ornament.

ab348

andre1969 said:

.
I wonder if the Olds 307 had a narrower, more peaky, power/torque band than the Chevy 305? And one thing I noticed, is that it actually lost a few ft-lb compared to the regular, 140 hp version. That one had 255 ft-lb. I've also heard that the 442 had a beefier rear end than the Monte SS. I forget the exact nomenclature, but something like a 10-bolt vs a 9-bolt? I don't know if that, by itself would make a difference, but I have heard it used as a partial excuse, at least..

The 4-4-2 in those years came with an 8.5” rear end with 3.73 gears. I believe the Buick GN was similar. The Monte got the smaller rear end used in regular G-bodies.

The Olds 307 was a pretty limited engine. I seem to remember it was a smaller-bore Olds 350 with less than optimal cylinder heads. They were using it in the big RWD cars and wagons so it certainly wasn’t a performance engine. Apparently Olds management at the time realized they were subpar for the 4-4-2 and tried to get GM corporate to allow them to use a more powerful engine but were denied.

roadburner

I think the GNX was the Regal that did 0-60 in 4.9.

fintail

Yesterday watched TPiR from deep in the heart of malaise, Jan 21, 1981. First up, this modestly optioned Mustang notchback - MSRP $6750:



Then something now very rare, a LeMans Safari with a few options - MSRP $8461:



And in the showcase, a very showy Trans Am - showcase value $13190:



Fun episode with all games won and a funny Showcase Showdown with Johnny as a DJ. A young guy who couldn't have been older than his early 20s won both the wagon and Trans Am.

uplanderguy

I always liked the styling of that era Mustang in notchback body style.

Speaking of "Johnny"--the past few nights of 'Jeopardy' (nightly ritual for us) has been pre-empted by basketball. I guess the other fifty sports channels aren't enough; has to be carried on regular TV.
I heard that they had their 9,000th episode since 1984 (the Trebek era and later), and Johnny Gilbert, at age 95, has introduced every single one.

He still sounds great at 95. Since Covid, he has recorded his announcements not in the studio, but I've heard he was in the studio for this celebration at the end of the show.

I'm sure it's on youtube and I can see it there, just frustrating.

uplanderguy

Normally goof on fender skirts, but I like them on these cars, and it seems like I never saw many of these, then or now. Good color, and Rally II wheels (I believe what Pontiac called them). Really sharp car.

kyfdx

Spotted: A very old Geo Tracker. It was the 4-door model, based on the Suzuki XL-7 (I think). Looked like you wouldn't think it would be running.

stickguy

uplanderguy said:

I always liked the styling of that era Mustang in notchback body style.

Speaking of "Johnny"--the past few nights of 'Jeopardy' (nightly ritual for us) has been pre-empted by basketball. I guess the other fifty sports channels aren't enough; has to be carried on regular TV.
I heard that they had their 9,000th episode since 1984 (the Trebek era and later), and Johnny Gilbert, at age 95, has introduced every single one.

He still sounds great at 95. Since Covid, he has recorded his announcements not in the studio, but I've heard he was in the studio for this celebration at the end of the show.

I'm sure it's on youtube and I can see it there, just frustrating.

we watched that. Yes, he was there on stage at the end of the show while they talked about the history and stuff. did not realize he was that ole.

Michaell

@kyfdx said:
Spotted: A very old Geo Tracker. It was the 4-door model, based on the Suzuki XL-7 (I think). Looked like you wouldn't think it would be running.

We owned a 1996 iteration of that vehicle … for 5 weeks. Bought it used from a retired GM executive for our then 16 year old son, who promptly totaled it coming home from school.

ab348

stickguy said:

we watched that. Yes, he was there on stage at the end of the show while they talked about the history and stuff. did not realize he was that ole.

I’m not a faithful watcher of the show but it’s fairly amazing he’s still active at that age. I guess being an announcer isn’t too hard on the body. The one I remember going until his late ‘80s was Yankees PA guy Bob Sheppard. The YES Network still uses a recording of his voice on the opening of Yankee games, and I remember Derek Jeter had his introduction for each at-bat recorded before he retired and used that for the rest of his career as an active player.

andre1969

I like that '81 LeMans wagon. I always thought the LeMans should have gone with that front-end, starting in 1978. It looks really good on the coupe, although with the sedan, it does perhaps clash a bit with the formal C-pillar.

laurasdada

The only model from that TPiR that interests me is Holly!

stickguy

I would take the firebird.

ab348

andre1969 said:

I like that '81 LeMans wagon. I always thought the LeMans should have gone with that front-end, starting in 1978. It looks really good on the coupe, although with the sedan, it does perhaps clash a bit with the formal C-pillar.

That's the issue. That front end looks great on the coupe but clashes with the upright sedan/wagon bodies.

uplanderguy

This week's new episode of "Curb..." redeemed itself IMHO. One of the plotlines was that Richard Lewis wanted to buy a classic M-B ('73, a 280 I believe) and has 'long Covid' so lost his sense of smell. He asked Larry to come look at it and see if he could smell anything bad. Larry smelled cigarette smoke which became a big negotiating point with the seller, played by Steve Buscemi. Conan O'Brien was also in this episode.

roadburner

@fintail I was watching one of my favorite Showa-era Kaiju romps (Ghidorah the Three-Headed Monster) and I noticed that the bad guys drove a blue 220SE. All but one of the bad guys were killed when the car was buried in a rockslide- but not to worry, it was a scale model.

fintail

roadburner said:

@fintail I was watching one of my favorite Showa-era Kaiju romps (Ghidorah the Three-Headed Monster) and I noticed that the bad guys drove a blue 220SE. All but one of the bad guys were killed when the car was buried in a rockslide- but not to worry, it was a scale model.

The internet is a wonderful thing:



Movie is from 1964, so it wasn't too old then.

The model:



And a scene featuring what was supposed to be the destroyed car, but obviously this is not a fintail - I think this is a Toyopet Crown:

ab348

I believe a few here subscribe to Hemmings Classic Car. I did as well, going way back to their Special Interest Autos magazine days, which I still feel was their peak.

I realized recently to my surprise that it was no longer arriving. I never received a notice to renew; it just stopped. The last issue I got was the January 2024 edition. I looked at their website, which is a bit of a mess, and they are still offering new subscriptions, though interestingly the issue they are showing a picture of is that same Jan/24 one that I have. One thing I noticed on their subscription page on the website is that they have moved to automatic renewal of subscriptions (you have to contact them to stop it), which must be fairly new since I don't recall that before. That would annoy me.

I thought the changes they made last year when they appointed a new editor were not good and I know the circulation of the print edition was way down from what it once was. It is tough times to be in the print magazine business anyway but I don't think the changes helped. Last year after I saw a few issues under the new editor was the first time I seriously considered not renewing since I really did not like the content. But the last couple I received gave me some hope they were getting back on track. Is anyone still receiving it?

texases

Did your subscription expired with no notice, or should you still be getting issues?

uplanderguy

Funny you mention that. A friend of mine dropped off some mags for me to look at yesterday and one is a HCC, which I didn't resubscribe to last year after Bob Palma died. I didn't like the direction of the mag anyway and for personal reasons there is one columnist I loathe (LOL). I just looked and the one he gave me was January's, with the '58 Mercury Voyager on the cover. This makes me think he hasn't gotten any since then or he'd have put Feb. and March's in for me to look at.

uplanderguy

I googled "Feb 24 Hemmings Classic Car" and "Mar 24 Hemmings Classic Car" and cover pics come up online. I'll ask my friend if he has Feb and Mar HCC issues.

imidazol97

I believe I got the APR 2024 A week or so ago. I pass them on quickly to friends who own a 1964 Ford Convertible. But I recall reading the article about the 1961 Catalina.

ab348

texases said:

Did your subscription expired with no notice, or should you still be getting issues?

Memory tells me it might renew around the early part of the year but since they don’t put the address/expiry on the magazine cover I’m not sure. It came in a plastic bag with an insert that carried that info.

imidazol97

The address and expiration is on a paper sticker that's lightly glued to the magazine cover.
I wonder if that's different in CA or if they had problems with some of the stickers
coming off. I have had the post office put mailing inside a plastic bag and pass them
on to me when they were damaged by the equipment.

I know I had complained years ago when the sticker pulled off some of the quality paper
coating on the mag. They walk a line between too much stick and too little stick.
A mailing label a few months back peeled the slick coating but didn't affect the color layers--
sort of like peeling a little of the clearcoat on an auto finish.

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

Funny you mention that. A friend of mine dropped off some mags for me to look at yesterday and one is a HCC, which I didn't resubscribe to last year after Bob Palma died. I didn't like the direction of the mag anyway and for personal reasons there is one columnist I loathe (LOL). I just looked and the one he gave me was January's, with the '58 Mercury Voyager on the cover. This makes me think he hasn't gotten any since then or he'd have put Feb. and March's in for me to look at.

Your analysis of the progression of the interest level for myself of the articles is right on. Nine months ago I was ready to nonrenew because mag had become too heavy with foreign cars: classics they might be but they weren't my classics. LOL

The monthly columns like "I Was There" by people about working in the auto industry in their youth was the one I looked for. I'm not sure it's there anymore.

fintail

On I-90 today spotted an Alberta plated MB W211 E300 - Canadian special, never sold in the USDM - AKA E280 in Europe, slightly lower displacement/power than the typical USDM E320. Also saw an early 80s Courier or Mazda variant.

kyfdx

A friend just bought a 2015 Mercedes SL 63
605 HP

I've only seen the pictures, so far.

ab348

imidazol97 said:

The address and expiration is on a paper sticker that's lightly glued to the magazine cover.
I wonder if that's different in CA or if they had problems with some of the stickers
coming off. I have had the post office put mailing inside a plastic bag and pass them
on to me when they were damaged by the equipment.

There has never been a sticker on mine. They came in a plastic bag with a sheet of heavy white paper in front of the cover with the name of the magazine preprinted across the top and my name/address/details on the bottom.

tjc78

@kyfdx said:
A friend just bought a 2015 Mercedes SL 63
605 HP

I've only seen the pictures, so far.

Yummy

explorerx4

This is an actual car someone owned and drove? Kind of blows mt mind.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1934-packard-1108-twelve-dietrich-individual-custom-convertible-sedan/#comments

stickguy

well, sounds like the owner was not the driver.

ab348

I was recently reading an article about Packard in those years in the depths of the Depression. Needless to say their sales volumes fell off a cliff given the economy. However the very wealthy were still wealthy, enough so to buy vehicles like this - though you could certainly question their wisdom in doing so considering the times, and the message they would be sending to those seeing them in one. I guess back then there was less of a desire to eat the rich as some say today. But the article noted that many rich folk back then were tooling around in Ford sedans and the like to avoid showing off their wealth too conspicuously. At the same time Packard was trying to survive by planning for introduction of the mass-market 120 series in a couple of years time, finally realizing that the market for what were then hyper-expensive hand-built bespoke cars was quickly disappearing.

uplanderguy

Spotted in the parking lot of my usual donut place this morning. I've seen this car before, but never this up-close, and not for a while.

1984 or 1985 Fleetwood Brougham coupe.

Not at all relevant to today's wheels of course, but end of an era.

For some reason, these Fleetwood coupes always intrigued me. I wish they'd have done Fleetwood coupes in the sixties and seventies (although with the sedans having longer wheelbases than deVilles, not sure how they'd have done a coupe then).

The way to tell it's an '84 or '85 is the lack of a big front fender emblem advertising the 4.1 engine, and the body side molding is entirely vinyl and color-keyed. The vinyl has darkened some over the years, but when new I liked this feature as it gave the clean appearance of no side moldings.

The car is dark blue original velour inside, in great shape.

I wish I'd have thought of peering at the odometer. Didn't want to take an interior pic as that seems to me to be crossing the line some.

The rear bumper fillers, a sore spot on these cars, had an amateurish-looking repair, but better than missing.

laurasdada

explorerx4 said:

This is an actual car someone owned and drove? Kind of blows mt mind.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1934-packard-1108-twelve-dietrich-individual-custom-convertible-sedan/#comments

I think I've finally found my winter beater!

fintail

I suspect that Packard had a chauffeur even without a formal divider, and maybe a secondary windshield could work as such.

Caddy looks like something I could imagine on TPiR.

andre1969

I'd be kinda curious about that '61 Catalina barn find they mention on the cover of that Hemming's Classic Car magazine. The '61 is my favorite year for Pontiacs of that decade, and probably the one car that would tempt me to give up my '67 Catalina. Although I guess it would be better to go with the Bonneville, since they used the older 4-speed Hydramatic and not the slim-jim.

uplanderguy

I like the round taillights of the ‘61 Bonneville better, but you know me and the overhang in back in those cars. Seems like people really like the ‘61 Ventura. Do you know if that was a separate model at that time or an option on the Catalina like it was the rest of the decade?

andre1969

Here's a wakeup call, for anyone who still thinks those old cars with their thicker sheetmetal are somehow safer than a modern car...

I saw this on facebook. I don't know anything about the details, other than this '58 Impala and a Civic hit, head-on. I don't know what year Civic, or how it fared. Or how the occupants made out. I pray they're okay.

fintail

Yikes. Scariest thought about 50s cars in hard crashes is the steering column and maybe bouncing around inside the car (you are the crumple zone). Also 60+ years of who knows what kind of repairs, and possible material decay, can't help.

On the oddity note, saw a first gen Avalon on apparent first gen Insight wheels, strange.

andre1969

Yeah, from what I've heard, one of the most significant "safety" features in those days was how far back the steering box is mounted. On Chrysler products, the steering box tends to be somewhat far back, so I guess the impact would have to at least be hard enough to buckle the frame behind the suspension. But on some cars, it was mounted really far forward, so it wouldn't take much of a hit to shove the whole steering column back.

Also, thinking about my DeSoto, I remember back when I was having all that work done on it, when my mechanic had it stripped down to the bare frame, thinking man, that frame doesn't look as beefy as I thought it would.

I remember on my '85 Silverado, it was mounted really far forward, and it made me grateful for collapsible steering columns! Although I imagine a hard enough hit would still shove the wheel back.

fintail

Were collapsible columns part of 1968 regs? I think the fintail has some kind of "safety" column, not sure if it is collapsible (it was the first mass produced car with specifically engineered crumple zones anyway, IIRC). I know they touted the padded hub as a safety feature, although after 60 years the padding isn't the most soft. But in 50s and older cars, the steering column seems to be a risk point, especially with the angle some people sit - the forward movement from a person upon impact would worry me as much as the impact driving the column up into the car.

ab348

Collapsible steering columns were mandated for 1967 models, one of the first required federal safety mandates. Initially there were various types. GM did a sleeved column you can see under the hood, with a nylon retaining piece securing the two pieces front to back that would shear in a front collision allowing the column to collapse on itself. I also remember seeing some sort of mesh-like things that were about the diameter of steering wheel hub which were also designed to collapse. The only reason I remember those is because there was a picture in a period magazine of them being used by the US Army on troop carrier vehicles in Vietnam to support seats inside the vehicles. I also remember seeing the '67 Volvo design which used a tubular steering shaft with a S-type bend at the firewall to allow that section to collapse in a crash. Ford used the flowerpot steering wheel hub until they could design an actual collapsible column.