Honda Pilot Maintenance and Repair

iowapilot

I have had an 04 PILOT E-XL since the end of February and have also been hearing a very noticeable clunking noise caused by the fuel shifting when braking. I took it into the dealer on Friday and they said they had never heard of this before. After checking on some service bulletins they indicated it is a problem that has been reported but they have no solution for it at this time. Has anyone had any success in finding a repair solution?

meyervilla

One thing would make our 2004 Pilot perfect - if it was easier to get out of. I can get in easily. However, if I'm not very careful when getting out my shoe (size 12) gets wedged solidly between the door and the body and I have difficulty pulling it free. I love Honda vehicles but the ergonomics are for munchkins.

qbrozen

there are 2 different issues. One is a clunk when you first step on the brakes after startup. This is caused by the brakes and there is a new TSB on this that requires the dealer to install brake shims. Honda has released a TSB on both the Pilot and MDX.

The 2nd issue is gas tank "problem" has been described more as a "slosh" and only occurs when the gas is it particular levels. This isn't a problem and, therefore, will never have a solution, IMHO. To some people, its just an annoyance. Personally, I've got much bigger problems in life to worry about like what color shirt to wear with these jeans.

qbrozen

LOL. I've never heard a complaint quite like that before.
by the by, no problems with my size 14s. So maybe its for munchkins and giants, but all the in 'tweeners are S.O.L.

camster

That's how my Pilot was delivered. The manual suggests 32 psi all around. Anyone else see that, or even check. (To top it off I have the infamous Bridgestone tires.)

bbug1

Search Results
Report Date : April 27, 2004 at 12:26 PM
NHTSA Campaign ID number : 04V176000
   
  
 
 
 
Make / Models : Model/Build Years:
     ACURA / MDX 2001-2002
 
     HONDA / ODYSSEY 2002-2004
 
     HONDA / PILOT 2003-2004
 
 
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 04V176000 Recall Date : APR 13, 2004
Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
Potential Number Of Units Affected : 600000
Summary:
 ON SOME MINI VANS, AND SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES, CERTAIN OPERATING CONDITIONS CAN RESULT IN HEAT BUILD-UP BETWEEN THE COUNTERSHAFT AND SECONDARY SHAFT SECOND GEARS IN THE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION EVENTUALLY LEADING TO GEAR TOOTH CHIPPING OR GEAR BREAKAGE CAN OCCUR.
Consequence:
 GEAR FAILURE COULD RESULT IN TRANSMISSION LOCKUP, WHICH COULD RESULT IN A CRASH.
Remedy:
 ON VEHICLES WITH 15,000 MILES OR LESS, THE DEALER WILL UPDATE THE TRANSMISSION WITH A SIMPLE REVISION TO THE OIL COOLER RETURN LINE TO INCREASE LUBRICATION TO THE SECOND GEAR. ON VEHICLES WITH MORE THAN 15,000 MILES, THE DEALER WILL INSPECT THE TRANSMISSION TO IDENTIFY GEARS THAT HAVE ALREADY EXPERIENCED DISCOLORATION DUE TO OVERHEATING. IF DISCOLORATION EXISTS, THE TRANSMISSION WILL BE REPLACED IF DISCOLORATION IS NOT PRESENT, THE DEALER WILL PERFORM THE REVISION TO THE OIL COOLER RETURN LINE. OWNER NOTIFICATION IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN ON OR ABOUT MAY 12, 2004. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT HONDA AT 1-800-999-1009.
Notes:
 HONDA RECALL NOS. P30 (ODYSSEY AND PILOT) AND P31 (MDX). CUSTOMERS CAN ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION’S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236).

qbrozen

I'm not sure what the above is. Is that from the NHTSA website?

In any case, Owner's Link does now have some info on it. Not for your individual vehicle, but there is a link on the owner's link homepage to a statement and FAQ from Honda.

bbug1

yes, it is from the NHTSA website. I would have posted a diect link, but that doesn't work so I pasted the info here.
I just called Honda and was asked the mileage of my Pilot. I said 15, close to 16 and he said I had nothing to worry about--that it is mostly affecting higher mileage Pilots. I asked how high and he said around 15,000. I told him that I have over 15,000 (he thought I had 1,500) and asked if I could take it to my dealer now or if I have to wait. I told him that I don't see why I have to wait, especially when the consequence of gear failure could result in a crash (!), he suggested to take it and have them look at it.
I sure hope that there isn't any discoloration on mine (or anyone elses) or the transmission will have to be replaced. A new trans on a new car is not a good thing for me. The less this car is messed with, the better. Keeping fingers crossed........
I'm not really too worried about my Pilot. I am a strong believer in listening and knowing ones vehicle and I've not heard any strange sounds from my trans, so I'll probably just have the oil cooler line update done.

qbrozen

i'm not sure what i want to happen. i'm kinda worried that just installing the fix will mean our tranny will last a bit longer but still fail in the long run because of the strain it suffered earlier in its life. But, like you said, i'm not too keen on having to get the tranny replaced either.

we have over 20K now. This ain't good.

sampilot2004

A brand new (2 weeks) Pilot. I am now hearing a clunking noise :-( when I shift the gear from D->N and then in to R. This noise is not heard when shifting just from N->R. I saw some messages in this forum but couldn't find any information on the possible causes or actions taken.

I didn't expect this kind of problem so soon from a Honda...

Any idea why this is happening? Of course, I am taking this to the service dept tomorrow...

Thanks

Sam

sampilot2004

I just now filed a complaint at http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

qbrozen

how bad of a clunk?

I've never had a car that DIDN'T do this to some degree. There is slack inherent in all of these joints and bearings and gears working together to move a vehicle. So you are pushing them all in one direction to go forward, then ask them all to change direction and go in reverse. There has to be some amount of slack or flex that needs to be taken up before movement can commence. Am I making sense? Well, regardless, like I said, I can't think of any vehicle I've had that didn't do this. But if its REALLY bad and loud, then maybe you have a problem.

sampilot2004

Thanks for your time, qbrozen!

This noise is really obvious. How bad? I some how feel it is loud enough to make me think something is not right. It sounds like transmission is banging on something when it goes to R. I can hear it even when all the doors/windows are closed. I owned a sedan before and I have never heard any such sound. I believe you have a 2003 Pilot. Do you hear that noise too? Thanks again...

qbrozen

No problem. I'm glad to try and help, however useless my help may be.

Yes, I do have that noise, but its not all that loud or jarring. i would call it more of a clink than a clunk.

bbug1

After reading your post I had to go and see if my Pilot did the clunk too. I usually back out of my garage and go from P to R and don't really do much D to R. But after sitting there and trying this out, it is really a strange clunk, you can really feel that hestitating thump.
Did you find anything out about it when you took your Pilot in to the service dept?

isellhondas

Now everybody will go check for this "clunk"!

Pretty sure it's normal...all cars will clunk to some extent but if you are concerned, get it checked by your dealer.

I don't think it's anything.

sampilot2004

I took my Pilot to the service department. That discourteous service guy came and said this is very normal even though he couldn't hear it very clearly because of all the traffic. He also suggested me to go to the dealership and check a new one. I went to the dealership which is just next door and met the sales man who sold the car to me. We checked out a brand new Pilot. That also gave the same sound. So, I am happy that this is not a defect with my Pilot. May be a design issue that needs to be checked by Honda to reduce the level of the noise...

Thanks

Sam

dako_tian

they could remove the "clunk" concern by reducing the insulation and allowing more external noise into the vehicle. ;-)

Actually, I've noticed this same sort of problem in many cars over the years. However, it is a problem caused by the human ability to filter sensory input and to recognize patterns more clearly as a result. The problem is that we sometimes abuse this ability when we focus on a perceived abnormality and then cannot manage to UNfocus off of it.

I have frequently pulled off the side of the road to check my tires and suspension because of a repetitive (and suddenly not-ignorable) noise only to find nothing was amiss but the road was not as smooth as I had assumed (weather can change the severity of the bumps between sections of the road -- the generally equal spacing of the resulting, possibly new, bumps sound very much like a suspension/tire-related problem).

This ability (and sometime-handicap) of selective focus also accounts for widespread superstitions, unfounded fears, unfounded confidences (such as the pre-2001 belief that the stock market would keep going up forever), and continued purchases of lottery tickets....

bbug1

Just wanted to let everyone know that I had the trans recall fix done yesterday. Dropped it off at 9 am and picked it up at 2pm.
I needed the car back earlier, but was told this job is a "pain in the butt" so it takes a while. If your Pilot has over 15k miles, they have to take digital pictures of the part in question and document everything. Thankfully, ours won't need the new trans (not yet, anyway) and now I'm trying to see if I can tell any difference in performance. None as of yet.

On another note, I was expecting to pick up my Pilot all washed up. We live in So-Cal and with the recent fires, my white Pilot looked pretty yucky. It was still dirty :-(
They don't wash cars with bras on (like they don't know how to remove it!!) ARGH.

qbrozen

our honda dealer doesn't wash them with or without the bra. That's one of the reasons why we go to the Acura dealer for service now.

as a matter of fact, my wife is there right now getting the oil changed. Then she is going tomorrow morning to the Honda dealer for the trans issue.

isellhondas

Because I'm curious...

Why would a service customer expect a dealership to wash their car?

We have a new and very expensive car wash at our store, and we do wash service cars but I've always wondered why this is expected?

I know, I had a lot of dealerships work on my cars in the past and I can't remember ever having my car washed nor did I expect them to do this.

I know it's a nice touch and I'm glad we do this but I just wonder why some people expect this.

qbrozen

Well, I don't necessarily expect it. It really depends. When we first brought the Pilot to the Honda dealer for an oil change, they didn't wash it. OK. I didn't expect them to for $24.99. My volvo dealer charges me $55 to change my oil. I definitely expect a wash out of that deal. But after some of the other hassles at the Honda dealer service department, we switched to an Acura dealer. For $26.99 they changed the oil and washed the car and gave my wife free starbucks coffee and high-speed internet access while she waited. So now I look back at the Honda dealer and think "why are you not washing my car??"

dako_tian

qbrozen summed it up, I think. The word is competition. Once one dealer washed my in-for-service vehicle, I thought that was great and sure miss it when it doesn't happen. Given qbrozen's choice of receiving a $2 car wash and other benefits with the oil change, I will do the same.

So the question is: If there is an increased awareness of the need to attract service customers (and I'm guessing there is), then how do you attract them to your service department instead of the other guys?

Answer: Any way you can!

bbug1

I expect it because that's what they do to make customers instantly gratified with the experience at the dealership. There's nothing like picking up your car and having it look it's best.
FYI, my husband was a Honda Tech for several years and then went to Acura and is now a Service Advisor. When my car needs regular service I will always take it to Acura because they really go the extra mile, especially in the delivery of your car. We get a small discount for most services, but the major downside is that we get treated like family---we have to wait---other customers come first...and I'm not able to complain.
Bottom line, I think a simple car wash helps makes customers feel more pampered and willing to go there again instead of joe-blow oil change.

biologist

I have over 33,000 miles on my Pilot and have never noticed any problems now or before the recall was announced... Guess I should be a bit worried..

qbrozen

my wife has an appointment in the morning at the dealer. i'll let you know the verdict. I have a feeling it will be "just install the fix" and not a new tranny.

isellhondas

You are probably correct since so few cars as I understand it will be affected.

On the car wash question...Thanks. I understand I guess. a little extra pampering never hurts!

qbrozen

yeah, they did say it would be a VERY small number that would need a new tranny. Very specific circumstances that would cause the 2nd cog to overheat.

Do you have any idea if I would be able to see the pictures they take of the gears? Do you think if I asked, they could provide that to me?

Since you guys wash the cars you have in, you're in good shape.
Its a competitive market and its the level of service that will keep folks coming back. Oh, and, on that note, the Acura dealer charged my wife over $70 yesterday for an oil change and tire rotation! I asked her to call today and make sure they didn't make a mistake. If they stick to that price, it looks like we'll be changing service departments yet again!

isellhondas

I guess you could ask to see the pictures. I can't think of any reason they wouldn't show them to you.

calg

We take our Pilot to two different Honda dealers. One does not wash the outside of the car, but they do vacuum the inside. The other dealer does not vacuum, just washes the outside. I kind of prefer the vacuuming because it lasts longer. It is nice to have a car looking great on the outside when you pick it up, but here in Vermont that does not last very long especially in Winter and when you live on a dirt road like we do. Today I called the dealer we bought the car from to make an appt. for the 30,000 mile service and to have the transmission looked at. He looked it up and said our Pilot does fall into the Recall group. Fortunately, they are giving me a loaner for the day since it will take 4-5 hours for everything to be done. I have not heard any strange noises from the tranny, so hopefully all is well. The appt. is May 19th and I will post any interesting findings.

nelsoncm

I'm a former Accord owner, (93 coupe), loved it, had nary a problem, now I read all this stuff about the trannies on the Pilots and the MDX's. Makes me wonder if I should even consider one until the next model year or two. I've had a car with a bad tranny before and never want to go through that again. What is Honda saying about the manufacture process from this point forward? Are they making modifications on the assembly line to avoid future vehicles having the same problems or have they said?

qbrozen

they are saying that all the recent ones are being made with the extra oil jet in place. Have been since about February, IIRC.

isellhondas

Check the forums for ANY model car and it's likely something will scare you.

The majority of Hondas aren't affected and the ones that are will be taken care of.

bbug1

At least Honda is taking care of it. For years I drove a Chevy Astro that had a constant shiver to it. I complained like crazy. Chevy (GM) would tell me that it was running as designed.
As isellhondas says, look up the other cars in the townhall and see what they are saying about their cars and problems they have. There is no perfect car.

knharris

I currently own a CR-V but have 2 kids in booster seats and a third on the way so we need something bigger. Love the looks, feel and everything about a Pilot, but I don't want to rely on the 3rd row as a seat 100% of the time. Anyone know if 2 boosters and a carseat will fit across the middle row? I hate the idea of having to go the minivan route, but think that's where I'm headed because we don't want a HUGE SUV either.

bbug1

Go try it out. Put all the seats in and see how it fits. I know the center row is nice and flat---really good for all types of car seats. We currently have 2 boosters (kind of big ones) and a 13 year old who sits in the same row. The rear seating is reserved for emergency seating only as it's very tight.
We were going to get the Ody, but didn't like the seating--the back would have to be up all the time as we have 3 kids. So no room for anything extra. Plus, IMHO, the Pilot gives a much better ride!
Keep us posted how it works out for you~

qbrozen

never tried that setup, but I did recently have a carseat and 2 full grown adults in the 2nd row. Nobody complained.

gumbo183

I've had my 2004 Pilot EX since October 2003 and have experienced what I would consider a fair amount of electrical system trouble. About 2 months after purchase, the SRS (airbag) dash light came on. After 3 trips to the dealer's service facility, the problem was diagnosed and repaired: a faulty sensor in the passenger seat. Soon thereafter the dome light would not come on and the 'headlights on' bell would not ring. Diagnosis: defective drivers side door switch. This was fixed just yesterday. Today, guess what's back? The SRS dash warning light.

Suffice it to say, I'm not a real happy camper. I've owned/driven a few vehicles in 30+ years of driving but have never seen this kind of thing right out of the gate. This is my first Honda and one of the reasons for purchase was the fabulous reliability everyone has raved about. Unfortunately, my Pilot is not living up to it's company's reputation. Has anyone seen this kind of electrical issues on their Pilot?

Also, how has everyone's service experience been? Every time I've been in for service the parts are never in stock and I have to blow another day bringing the truck back in when the parts arrive. Is this a universal complaint or this dealer service center just beat? Lemme know...

G^2

qbrozen

I've seen SRS light complaints before. Not many, but a few.

Is "everytime I've been in for service" mean just these 2 electrical problems or is it more than that. I can't say I'm completely surprised that an SRS sensor and door switch are not on the shelf, but if you're talking about more than that, it could be the department.

gumbo183

Yes, it has been just these 2 (now 3) electrical problems. But the car has only just turned 7 months old yesterday and has been in the shop 5 times already with only 10K miles on the odometer. I'm now on a first name basis with the service center counter person with another trip to the shop in store (or multiple trips since it's almost certain they will have to order the part as it will not be on-hand). If this is what is occuring right out of the gate, I can't wait until we get into the 'high maintenance zone'. So much for Honda's renoun reliability that I paid a premium for.

As someone with many years of experience in service management in the electronics industry, I know that it is unreasonable to expect that a dealership or manufacturer will all parts for all models at all times ad infinitum. In this day and age, companies are on major initiatives to slim down parts inventories. However, I would think that a part like a switch or sensor for a current model should be able to be obtained from an authorized parts distributor within 24 hours. Each time I have to drop this vehicle off for repair, I'm losing time away from the office as well as the cost of taking a car service to the service center. In purchasing the Pilot, I got rid of a '98 Dodge Caravan with 108K on it because IT was starting to spend too much time in the shop (what one might expect from a vehicle with that kind of mileage). This is not what I expect from a new vehicle, especially a Honda.

While I like the way the truck drives, I'm now really having second thoughts about the purchase given the reliability issue and the generally sluggish response by the service center. If these problems continue to crop up over the next few months, I'll probably get rid of it before years end.

eps105

After buying a new booster seat that is narrower than our old one, and by carefully boosting up our rear-facing infant seat in the middle with some foam, I was able to get both seats to fit perfectly on the 60 side of the 60/40 split seat, allowing full access to the third row while still having two kids in the second row.

With this setup, the entire 40-side of the 60/40 seats is completely free, so there is plenty of room to add a second booster seat.

Be forewarned that you will have to play with the positioning and sizing of booster/infant seats and will loose the ability to easily access the 3rd row, but it absolutely, positively can be done.

Elliot

qbrozen

sorry, i wasn't clear, what i meant to ask is if the slow response was only in relation to those electrical replacement parts or if they are like that every time you go in, regardless of what the car needs?

A few bugs in a new car are rarely an indication of what you will experience in the long run.

There was just a discussion on this (may still be ongoing) on the plain old Honda Pilot board here on Edmunds. Here, you can start with this post and work your way down:
isellhondas "Honda Pilot" May 9, 2004 4:22pm

Provides any insight I would just end up repeating here.

terumi1

With the SRS, if it is the door ones (side impact), it will disable, with you getting an amber light, if someone is leaning against the door. For example, you are driving, and your wife is sitting with her back against the front passenger door talking to you, etc... The sensor in the door senses the weight and assumes someone is sitting with their back against the door. So the air bag is disabled so that it doesn't blow and break her back.

If that is the situation you are talking about!

Otherwise, no other electrical problems/comments

terumi1

I forget who started this thread, but I know qbrozen commented at some point.

My guess is that if the dealer is washing a car after servicing it, they are running it through the car wash machine. Which my dealer has on the property.

I wouldn't want them to wash the car if this was how they were going to wash it. It will swirl the paint. Especially on mine, it being a black Pilot.

In my experience, the cloth wipers in a car wash are dirty from previous car washings. That dirt is then rubbed on your car and swirls your paint.

For me, handwashes only. With constantly rinsing and cleaning my wash rag to make sure is grit/grime free. And I take it once a year to get professionally buffed with a buffer to remove the deep road grime that I can't get out with normal washing and waxing. This will keep it looking brand new for many years! A deep, penetrating black is hard to keep as such. And the machine washing will ruin the paint with swirls in one washing. And the scratches might be deep enough that a skilled buffer-guy won't be able to get them all out.

Just another 2 cents worth.

dako_tian

You can also "clay" your paint "to remove the deep road grime that I can't get out with normal washing and waxing." Just like it sounds you take some special clay (Zaino has it, as do many auto parts supply stores) and rub it over the paint, folding the clay frequently. The dirt and grime is pulled out without the risk of paint swirls that some of the less-than-highest-skill-level buffer folks sometimes leave (or maybe a thinking-about-his-girlfriend-instead-of-your-black-paint buffer guy).

After that, put some high-quality show car polish on (Zaino is one great brand; a single coat kept my Toreador Red F150 glistening better than new for over 3 years) and you'll shine like nothing else on the road with the minimum possible money and effort.

gumbo183

It is the main SRS light (red, left dash) came on and now stays on. This first happened when the car was just 2 months old last December. The problem was diagnosed as a bad sensor in the passengers seat. They replaced the sensor and got more diag codes indicating that the problem was the harness for the passengers seat. That was replaced (another trip to the shop) and the warning light went away. Now, a day after the drivers door sensor was replaced (another problem, 2 trips to the shop), the SRS light has come back on. Originally the service center said that it was essentially an indicator problem and the bags would deploy in the event of a crash. When they changed the harness, they also changed their tune on just how benign this problem actually is. The annoyance of having to bring the car to the shop multiple times is one thing; a real saftey issue is another thing altogether.

Based upon a search through past messages on this board, it seems this is a known issue. Thanks to qbrozen and all for your feedback thus far as it's very helpful.

terumi1

Very good info there. Thanks much. I will look for the claymation care!

terumi1

Good luck with that, Gumbo. Hope it works out. Disappointing to hear so much that has happened to your pilot.

qbrozen

I'd definitely be worried about the safety issue here. As far as I understand, if that light is on, the bag will not deploy. Am I not remembering that correctly? Or are these 2 different lights?

ya know, just for the heck of it, and maybe you can turn up a solution to this, you should try a search on hondapilot.org.

sampilot2004

My Pilot is not even a month old. Lately, I am hearing a rattling noise from the area on the top of the CD player system... I am sure it is from that place becuase the noise goes away if I just keep my hand there! Has anyone heard this noise? qbrozen - In one of your posts, you have also complained about the same problem. Did you do something to get it fixed?

Thanks

Sam