Just bought an 04 EX-L Nav and took it on a three week road trip over 3000 miles and across six Western states. Could not have bought and traveled in a better SUV. We had an 01 Montero and was looking very hard at the Volvo. At every point, I could not justify the extra $10k for the Volvo. (The new rollover ratings make me feel even better considering how the Pilot beat the XC90) Carrying a ton of camping gear and luggage, the Pilot had space to spare and was a dream to drive (for a SUV).
I'd also make a pitch for opting for the Nav. My wife thought that it was a useless guy toy but we used it for everything from finding a hotel room in Salt Lake City when the campground was overrun with bugs, ordering pizza for pickup in Whitefish, Montana and finding the nearest Target to buy diapers in Missoula. As we were in a lot of areas with no cell phone coverage, the Nav was a nice feature.
I used to laugh at folks who owned "boring" Hondas but after a month with the Pilot, couldn't be happier.
I bought an extra set of 2 cup holders for my Pilot to hold the milk and juice bottle so I still have room for my coffee :-). Any dealer can order you one. Front Cup Holder is part#83413-S9V-A01ZA. I think it was only $5.
We just brought home our new 2004 Pilot EX last night. I am curious to know from others who have had this vehicle long enough to do maintenance about a couple of things.
First, has anyone replaced the air filter with the K&N filter,if it has improved gas mileage and if so, when should we do that to ours?
I have been told by many people that every 5000 miles is OK for oil changes, in fact, I followed that schedule and had my tires rotated and oil changed at the same time with my Mazda MPV. What is your opinion of following that same schedule with the Pilot, or should I stick with Honda's schedule? What about brand of oil and synthetic vs. dinosaur for this vehicle? When should we do the first oil change? I have heard from some that you should not wait that long the first time.
Sorry to be so lengthy but this vehicle has to last a good long time and I really want to start out right with proper maintenance
I'm surprises that Honda's recommended interval is only 3,750 miles (link). Seems a bit short these days, unless there's a sludge risk. Maybe that's the severe service interval.
I'm surprises that Honda's recommended interval is only 3,750 miles (link)
It is, and it isn't. The recommended interval for oil changes is 7,500 miles under "normal" conditions, and 3,750 for "severe" conditions (as you suspected as being possible). Unfortunately the Edmunds maintenance page doesn't make that distinction and is thus somewhat misleading.
A LOT of dealers will talk the customer into the severe maintenance schedule as a way to pad their income. They'll use their customers' fears of problems to talk them into coming in twice as often.
The owner's manual clearly states the following as the requirements for the severe maintenance schedule:
...if you drive your vehicle mainly under one or more of the following conditions:
Driving less than 5 miles (or 10 miles in freezing temperatures) per trip
Driving in extremely hot [over 90 degress] conditions
Extensive idling or long periods of stop and go driving
Trailer towing, driving with a roof top carrier, or driving in mountainous conditions.
I would assume that "mainly" means at least 50% of the time (thank ardvarkus for this info to copy and paste). So if you spend 50% of your time in long periods of stop-and-go traffic (and some folks do), then the severe maintenance schedule is legitimately recommended. But for a lot of folks, it isn't legitimate. The dealer will ask, "you have stop and go on your commute, right? well, you should get it done more frequently, Honda says so."
There is a somewhat different "severe" definition for VTM-4 fluid changes, another area that dealers often overcharge for and make too frequent.
Also worth mentioning here is that many dealers lump unnecessary services into their 15k, 30k, 60k, etc. "packages." Sometimes they itemize those after you get the service done, sometimes they don't.
Have had my 04 Pilot for a week. Love it except for the rattle on the passenger side. Had an escape, it probably rattled too but the Pilot is quieter and I notice it more. Any fix to this?
See my post 5885. I am experiencing the same rattle. Although the dealer replaced the rear damper, the rattling continues. I plan to bring it back to have them check it again. I haven't seen any technical bulletins issued for this problem.
There is a tech. bull. for the right rear shock absorber. I read it on the service department computer link to Honda engineering at a Honda dealer where I know the service manager. The solution at present is to replace the shock with a revised one, not the original part. The part numbers are different. There is a problem with the shock transferring noise through the body at the mounting point. The body somehow has a problem with transferring the noise into the car. The new revised shock was put on my car and eliminated the noise for a few weeks but came back off and on after that to a lesser extent. When talking with the service manager recently about how the noise came back, he indicated that Honda had contacted him about this issue and has now opened up a new investigation of this problem to find a better solution. He indicated it was rare that Honda would call telling him that they had reopened investigation of a problem they thought they had fixed. So it appears that Honda is now working on another fix to this problem.
As a follow up to my previous message I took my car in to have the hatch repaired and the dealer told me that this was the first time he had this happen and this was not covered by warranty. So I call Honda and they told me they would cover it for good will. Well after some checking it turns out that there is a TSB on this problem and when I mentioned it to the dealer all of a sudden they knew all about it. Please see the attached TSB in case you have the same problem. If you complain they will cover the cost of this repair. Still not sure why you have to complain to Honda when they know this is a problem. This problem can and did require that the read hatch be realign after it bent the hinges.
TSB 03_060 Scraping or Popping When Opening the Tailgate
September 23, 2003
Applies To: 2003 Pilot ? From VIN 2HKYF18..3H500001 thru 2HKYF18..3H562075
SYMPTOM The tailgate makes a loud scraping or popping noise as it nears its fully open position. This problem usually happens in hot weather.
PROBABLE CAUSE The front edge of the tailgate spoiler trim is too high, and the T-bolts on each side of the spoiler trim stick in their tracks.
CORRECTIVE ACTION Replace the foam under the tailgate spoiler trim with 3M Scotchfoam tape. Remove any plastic flashing from the T-bolt tracks so the bolts move freely.
CUSTOMER INFORMATION: The information in this bulletin is intended for use only by skilled technicians who have the proper tools, equipment, and training to correctly and safely maintain your vehicle. These procedures should not be attempted by ?do-it-yourselfers,? and you should not assume this bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle has the condition described. To determine whether this information applies, contact an authorized Honda automobile dealer.
I stopped by the dealer a few days ago and asked what changes were being made for 2005. He said they were only dropping the blue color. With 2004's still sitting on the lot, I doubt they'll talk about too many changes at this point.
Are you sure about the side curtain bags? I've asked every dealer and searched the internet but have not been able to come up with that information (did hear about the moonroof and CD changer). Right now I am between a Sienna and a Pilot in my decision process, with airbags being the only obstacle on a Pilot. Any ideas on how much the price will balloon with these addition features on the EX-L? I am seconds away from pulling the trigger on an'04 EX-L with DVD for $300 over invoice...but would much rather get my kids the side airbags and than a movie screen! HELP!
This is what I read from several Honda Pilot discussion boards. Sunroof on EX-L, 6 CD changer on EX and up, side curtain airbags (all three rows) on all models plus 3 new colors. BTW, Honda Pilot has 5 star rating on NHTSA's frontal- and side-impact test.
When you add up all of the improvements for the 2005 Pilot, It makes me wonder if anyone will pay $8k more for an MDX. Unfortunately, it also will be depressing for recent 2004 Pilot buyers, unless Honda raises the 2005 prices significantly.
I read the '05 price could be few hundreds to $1000 more than '04 model. I guess the price increase on EX or above. There is no surprise if we see new features and upgrades like side curtain airbags, voice activated navigation, XM radio, sunroof and more. I still hope Honda will add foglights on EX model or at least a factory option. So we don't deal with the expensive dealers' labor cost to remove the front bumper and drill some holes.
Stability control is nice for a tall wagon like Pilot.
Anybody has any idea about the low-end torque of 05 Pilot? How is the stop line acceleration?
My Accord is 240HP and 212 Lb. I'd rather have it at 212HP and 240Lb.
Not trying to be a stop line fighter. In CA, all those crazy drivers on the road means one must have very good short distance acceleration onto the freeway. Besides, the ramps on a lot high ways are so short and it makes one wonder what are those architects thinking.
FYI. The '04 Honda Pilot produces 240 hp @5400 rpm and 242 ft-lbs @4500 rpm, more torque than your Accord. The '04 Acura MDX produces 265 hp @5800 rpm and 253 ft-lbs @3500 rpm. I would guess '05 Pilot will have a little more torque with a 250 hp engine or in between Pilot and MDX.
Beside the torque number, it's also important to know how the torque is distributed across the rpm range (useful torque). To have good acceleration, it's good to have more torque at lower rpm range. And according to the 04 bronchure, you get ~220 at 1000 rpm. For personal experience with 04, I can say it's more than adequate for me (a little bit of hesitation when going uphill loaded).
I don't know. For me personally, at least for 2004, the Accord was never a consideration when we got a TL. Perceived by me to be a completely different car: different engine, different suspension / chassis, different transmission different body, different interior. The fact that the TL and Accord might start on the same "platform" wheelbase is not particularly relevant to me, given the differences in what gets attached (the 5 series, X5 and 645i share a "platform" and they pretty much cover the gamit of driving experiences). And the additional "content" wasn't really a factor because, from a "driving" perspective, I never considered the Accord. So I didn't really get into any attempt to justify the price difference of the TL over the Accord. I did somewhat consider the Maxima 6-speed, but even ruled that out pretty early on for other reasons.
With the MDX, mechanically it is essentially the same vehicle as the Pilot. The added horsepower rating for the identical engine is through exhauset system tweaks. I personally can't tell the difference driving them back to back. The same suspension gets a bit more sound insulation. As for the interior and body style, unfortunately I don't particularly care for the MDX exterior looks, so it's almost a toss up for me on that front, notwithstanding the nicer interior amenities. So for me, the MDX vs. Pilot price difference does come down a lot more to "content" and, for 2005, Honda has closed that gap considerably.
If Acura produced a 6-speed MDX with 300 "real" horsepower and a significantly upgraded suspension to give a completely different drivign experience than the Pilot, I wouldn't be making the comparisons I am.
www.vtec.net reports 2005 Pilot changes as 250hp with drive-by-wire throttle, TPMS, VSA, redesigned fuel tank (slightly larger, reduces the infamous slosh), sunroof, ULEV-2, three new colors, etc.
Curiously, no mention of side curtain airbags. Hopefully they're wrong about it, because that'd be a horrible omission given the competition.
2005 MDX changes include XM radio, Bluetooth on Touring models, OnStar on nav models, the same fuel tank improvement, an improved VSA, Brake Assist, the same nav upgrade that the new TL has, the same 3 new colors.
www.hondanews.com has some of this. It's possible the Pilot list is missing an item or two.
I've read that the MDX and Pilot suspensions are indeed different. The MDX is supposed to be tighter and lower. Some Pilot owners have even talked about swapping in MDX suspension parts to get sportier feedback and a lower ride.
So, I see it as the TL is a higher HP, sportier ride, upgraded interior, and different exterior compared to the Accord. All the same can be said for the MDX over the Pilot. The TL gets voice activated NAV (along with climate control and stereo) over the accord .... isn't that about it? So I could see the same difference existing between the pilot and Mdx. So go ahead and give the Pilot a moonroof, etc. If both the TL and Accord can exist (and both sell well) with these differences, than so can these 2 suvs.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Perhpas those Pilot owners that want a sportier ride should be swapping their Pilots for an S2000! :-)
I notice almost no difference in the ride and handling of an MDX vs. Pilot. Which is to say both are considerably better than our Trooper, but neither are in the same league as the X5, Cayenne or even the XC90, IMO. The MDX may be slightly quieter and seem smoother than the Pilot, but I would never describe it as 'sporty', that's for sure.
I still don't quite follow your logic on the TL vs. Accord. You could insert that the "545i" has higher HP, sportier ride, upgraded interior, and different exterior compared to the Accord and be just as correct. Edmunds staff and other reviews I've read generally describe the MDX and Pilot as "mechanical twins". So I do think Acura is setting itself up for the same problem Nissan/Infiniti has had trying to sell two cars with negligable differences (Maxima / I35). Acura itself should have learned a lesson from the old SLX (i.e. re-badged Trooper + $10,000).
P.S. The pre-2004 TL would never have made it to my shopping list. Nice car, but not at all competitive with the other "sport sedans" I was considering. But, even then, it wasn't really a mechanical twin of the Accord. If you want to be really strict about it, the only vehicles made by either Honda or Acura that are unique, ground up vehicles unto themselves are the S2000 and NSX.
so... are you saying that just because the TL and Accord have different displacement engines they are that much more different than the MDX and Pilot? I guess you could look at it that way, but I still just see a more powerful and more refined car in the TL.... and I see the same difference in the MDX. I think the buying public will see it that way, too. Oh, and not to mention the power of badge snobbery for some buyers who REFUSE to drive something so mundane and commonplace as a Honda. You can see it differently, that's fine. I guess we'll see what the sales numbers say next year. Only the buying public can decide this one.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Indeed, I saw no side curtain airbags for 05 Pilot. Hope it is a mistake by the editor.
If it turns out to be true, at least make it an option. Otherwise, I have to switch to Highlander or maybe 05 pathfinder, which claims to be much bigger and more powerful.
No, I'm not saying that just because they have different diplacement engines, they are different vehicles. The Honda Accord comes in 4 and 6 cylinder versions.
But you seem to be saying that the TL and Accord are essentially the same vehicle or at least share as much in common as the MDX and Pilot? What do they have in COMMON, other than a base starting platform? (which, by my previous example of the 5-series, X5 and 645i is an hardly the basis for classifying two vehicles as similar). As best I can tell, everything that gets attached to that platform is different on the TL vs. the Accord. Note that I'm not trying to bring the Odyssey into the mix as a "triplet" to the MDX/Pilot just because it shares the same paltform.
I guess my bottom line is that the Pilot and MDX are essentially mechanical twins and the TL and Accord are not. And the added power (rating) of the MDX obtained through exhaust system tweaks and premium gas is nearly imperceptible to me. Fro 2005, it will be even less so. So I am inclined to compare the MDX and Pilot head to head based upon "content" much more so than the TL and Accord.
P.S. I've always thought that the distinction between Honda and Acura in terms of "badge snobbery" is tenuous at best. Our TL is a very nice car, for sure. But my S2000, lack of luxury gizmos notwithstanding, was and is the most technologically advanced car produced by the company, period. Certainly more so than the 12+ year old outdated NSX. And it's a HONDA. I wouldn't have paid a nickle more for it or liked it any better, had it been badged an Acura.
I drove the V6 Accord and TL this weekend and they are very different vehicles. I loved the interior and exterior on the TL. The Accord suprised me because I actually liked how it drove better - lighter on its feet.
Acceleration and isolation was good on the TL.
I know they are both made in Marysville Ohio and share some design elements but they truly are different cars.
Well long story short, I’ve been searching for that near perfect (size, price, reliability) all-purpose vehicle of an SUV flavor. On my tally sheet the Pilot has the best interior setup of them all. However I was most unfortunate to have suffered the dreaded tranny problem in a ’01 CL. I would love to own the Pilot, but I’m hard press to gamble 30k a second time (maybe a lease is in order).
And it does not appear that Honda has fully resolved this issue, and my impression is that it is a bigger problem than Honda is willing to admit –or- maybe not.
So the $64k question how is it, that none of Honda products get the dreaded black-check marks on Consumer Reports. This tranny problem has been on going now for 4 years, so how does Honda manages to keep its stellar reputation somewhat intact??
Don't the TL and Accord (and pilot and MDX) all share the same 5-speed auto transmission? And the Accord V6 coupe 6-speed and TL 6-speed?
And i wouldn't call the pilot and mdx mechanical twins. Again (supposedly) different suspensions, different exhaust, different heads, different intake. Only mechanical similarities I can definitely point out are the engine block, tranny, and AWD system.
We ARE talking about the Pilot. We were comparing it to the MDX and the discussion is how both the MDX and Pilot can exist and do well for Honda. The TL and Accord are brought in as a comparison of how 2 vehicles from the same manufacturer with similar properties can exist at the same time and do well in the marketplace. So now we are all caught up ....
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
"And i wouldn't call the pilot and mdx mechanical twins."
Well, you may not, but Edmunds, Consumer Reports, Road and Track, Motor Trend and just about everyone else does. Read through the specifications and you will find nothing but slightly different "tweaks" to the engine, suspension and other major mechanical parts.
Let's leave the Accord and TL out of it, for the sake of sticking to the subject. Besides, you never would have made the statement about the 6-speeds being the same if you had ever actually driven them. The short throw close ratio 6-speed of the TL has more in common with my former Honda S2000 than the long throw wide ratio Accord 6 speed.
Getting back to my point - I think anyone looking carefully at value is going to have a tough time justifying the price difference of a 2005 MDX over a 2005 Pilot. Not to say the MDX isn't a fine vehicle, just that the Pilot has really closed the gap. And this isn't coming from someone who wants to pump the Pilot because they can't afford the MDX. Other SUV's on my list include the $50k GX470 and not very practical $60k Cayenne S. Neither of which would make me feel imprudent for going for them over the less expensive 4-Runner and Touareg. But the MDX would. So, as an Acura owner and fan, with a budget that can easily cover the MDX, Acura SHOULD worry that I view the Pilot as damn near the MDX in appeal. And at $7k+ less, way the heck ahead in value.
P.S. The TL 6-speed has a stiffer suspension than the automatic, Brembo brakes and a high performance tire package. There is a greater differnce between the handling and performance of a 6-speed and automatic TL than between a Pilot and MDX. Sorry, I should have left that alone. This is the Pilot forum.
P.P.S. Did you think the SLX was a different enough vehicle than the Trooper Limited to warrant a $8k premium. That, by the way, is the lowest resale value Acura ever made, so the used car market certainly didn't think so.
Actually, if you could help or refer me to a source, I would be interested in learning more about the 2004/2005 MDX vs. Pilot transmissions.
The 2004 brochures I have for each model are suspiciously limited on providing information that allows a direct comparison. The MDX brochure gives more detailed information regarding the gear ratios, etc. The Pilot only gives the final drive ration which is different than the Pilot by a small amount (4.375 vs. 4.428). If you do the math, that happens to be exactly the difference in the ratio between the circumferance of the Pilots 16" 235/70 series tires and the MDX's 17" 235/65 series tires.
I have heard that the MDX automatic transmission was redesigned, as supposedly was the Acura TL's. But I believe early production 2004 vehicles of both models were added to Honda/Acura's recall campaign. I haven't been convinced with actual facts that there isn't still a potential problem.
We could end this debate immediately, and get my wife and me to by an 2005 MDX the moment they come out, if Acura would put a TL style 6-speed manual transmission in the MDX. Same goes for the Pilot. In nearly 30 years of driving for each of us, neither of us has ever owned an automatic. Unfortunately, now seems like a lousy time to break that streak, given Honda?Acura's ongoing problems. And our only manual choices, the X5 3.0 and Cayenne V6, dont give us the "utility" we would like in an SUV (although plenty of "S").
Unfortunately the best source of information is something I cannot post here according to the Town Hall rules.
The 2003 MDX received Honda's new "compact transmission," which the 2005 Odyssey now receives.
Needless to say, the source has diagrams and part numbers and the transmissions are clearly different designs. The casing is different, the assemblies are different. It's definitely a different transmission. E.g. if you compare the diagrams of the Pilot transmission to the previous MDX transmission, or the previous TL, there is little difference. Same casing, same assemblies. Mostly the difference are in the part numbers.
But I believe early production 2004 vehicles of both models were added to Honda/Acura's recall campaign.
That is not correct. The MDX's new transmission has not been the subject of a recall. You can look at NHTSA's site and the recalls are listed.
Now, whether the new "compact transmission" in the MDX and now the Odyssey is any better than the previous one, we won't know for a while. I have seen reports of failures in the new one but it's difficult to determine if it's part of "normal" statistical failures or an alarming trend. I have also seen reports of quite a few old-transmission models being replaced.
Thanks, I'll try to look into this further myself. I'll take your word on the MDX not being recalled, but friends of ours with an early 2004 TL (November 2003 purchase) did get notified to bring theirs back for some type of transmission check/service. Not sure if it was a "recall" or something less official.
When in doubt, try to do the research yourself. It's a superior alternative than speculating and making incorrect statements. Go to NHTSA's website (www.nhtsa.gov). Search for recalls on the 2004 TL, and the 2004 MDX. You will find the former, not the latter. You'll find similar recalls on the Pilot and Odyssey.
The only transmissions affected are some years of the older transmission architecture, found in Pilots, the current (soon-to-be-replaced) Odyssey, CL's, previous (and current?) TL's, and Accord V6's.
They all share the same basic design with some variations (e.g. SportShift or whatever Honda calls it. I have not seen any information that says that the 2004 TL's automatic is of the new generation, BTW. Got any links? It could just be another variation of the old design, labelled as new, and thus subject to the recall.
The MDX stopped using its variant of the older transmission design in 2003, and the new design hasn't been recalled yet. (You can easily search previous years in NHTSA's database to verify this.) The 2005 Odyssey uses the newer design, but the 2005 Pilot continues with the older one.
Current Pilot owners who think they may be subject to the recall don't have to wait for any mailed notice. They can call up their dealership, and the dealership can look up the VIN in the computer and schedule an appointment.
For your information, I did previously check the NHTSA's website. However, since they DO NOT list the 2002/2003 TL as being subject to a transmission recall (which is the case), I didn't have confidence that their website was 100% accurate. The only recall officially listed by NHTSA for 2002/2003 Acura TL's is related to an engine/timing belt issue.
Honda's own press release:
"American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today announced that it will expand its existing voluntary recall of light truck models for a potential transmission defect to include certain Honda and Acura passenger cars. The voluntary action involves approximately 499,000 Honda and Acura passenger vehicles with V6 engines and 5-speed automatic transmissions. Affected models include certain 2003 and early 2004 model Accord V6 sedans and coupes, 2000-2003 and early 2004 Acura TL sedans, and 2001-2003 Acura CL coupes."
Recalled or not, Acura/Honda have a serious issue on their hands, given the "Ford-like" way they have handled this matter. Speak to any honest service manager at a large dealership, and they will acknowledge that a significantly above average transmission failure rate was occuring 1-2+ years before the first recall notice was issued.
So, rather than give me a lesson on research, what say you to the apparantly incorrect information on the NHTSA site regarding the TL? Only slightly better than not doing any research is putting 100% confidence in a single source of information.
When did you look for the recall info? Sometimes it can take a month or two before recall information is in the NHTSA database. Wasn't the date of that press release in late June?
The aforementioned transmission recalls are in the NHTSA database, I just checked again for each model of the subject years.
FWIW, I suspect that even with the recall's adjustments, we haven't seen the end of problems for these transmissions. JMHO and some will doubtless disagree.
just to clarify, i have driven both the accord and tl 6-speeds. While I totally agree that they feel different (as I've posted in the past many times on the TL vs accord discussion), a lighter clutch and short-throw shifter do not a different transmission make.
"Did you think the SLX was a different enough vehicle than the Trooper Limited to warrant a $8k premium."
whoa. whoa. now, let's not get confused here. I NEVER said the MDX was worth the price premium over the Pilot. I said that I feel enough buyers would pay the premium to justify the existence of both vehicles. Am I one of the buyers? Heck no.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Fair enough. And I agree. Although, as a result of a little more research, I am thinking the MDX transmssion may indeed have a leg up on the Pilot's. Thanks for prodding me.
we're really trying to guess what the buying public will do. If we knew that, we'd be rich men.
so, with all this added content on the Pilot, anybody thinking about trading in their current model? Our '03 is starting to look like a poor deal compared to the new ones. If the '05 does come with a sunroof, we'd definitely think twice. Only real dilemma is whether or not we'd be willing to start our payments all over again after already putting 18 months into this one (not to mention an aftermarket moonroof - the only thing that kept my wife from wanting an '04 was that we'd have to go through that effort and expense again).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I've seen others having dash rattle problems. Has anyone figured out how to correct it? Seems like there are 3. One is the drivers side dash speaker cover, which i can wiggle, another right over the radio - slight pressure stops it but it's not comfortable driving with a hand on the dash, and the other on top of the instrument panel, halfway back to the windshield, again, slight pressure eliminates it. I think the cargo cover rattles as well, it's not the tightest fit when mounted. Looking for a quick fix. Mechanically inclined I am. Not practical to take to dealership - the closest one is 2 hour drive and service is closed on weekends. THANKS
New 255hp engine with DBW (Drive by Wire Throttle Control System) Addition of Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) with location indicator Revised 4th and 5th gear ratio VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist) on EX-L models Addition of driver seat position sensor and passenger seat weight sensor that correlate to front airbag deployment New fuel tank design (40+ miles of range) Slight frame changes to improve IIHS ratings to “Good” in all categories Revised steering pump for enhanced on center feel Revised IP: ambient light added plus a new 6-disc CD changer for EX and EX-L trim levels Driver footrest added Improved sunroof with wind deflector for EX-L trim New integrated remote key fob Keyless entry added for LX trim model New Magnesium frame steering wheel ULEV-2 Emissions rating New exterior colors: Desert Rock Metallic, Steel Blue Metallic and Billet Silver Metallic
Comments
I'd also make a pitch for opting for the Nav. My wife thought that it was a useless guy toy but we used it for everything from finding a hotel room in Salt Lake City when the campground was overrun with bugs, ordering pizza for pickup in Whitefish, Montana and finding the nearest Target to buy diapers in Missoula. As we were in a lot of areas with no cell phone coverage, the Nav was a nice feature.
I used to laugh at folks who owned "boring" Hondas but after a month with the Pilot, couldn't be happier.
I contacted the local dealer today, but they did not know about any changes for 2005. Or at least, they are talking.
First, has anyone replaced the air filter with the K&N filter,if it has improved gas mileage and if so, when should we do that to ours?
I have been told by many people that every 5000 miles is OK for oil changes, in fact, I followed that schedule and had my tires rotated and oil changed at the same time with my Mazda MPV. What is your opinion of following that same schedule with the Pilot, or should I stick with Honda's schedule? What about brand of oil and synthetic vs. dinosaur for this vehicle? When should we do the first oil change? I have heard from some that you should not wait that long the first time.
Sorry to be so lengthy but this vehicle has to last a good long time and I really want to start out right with proper maintenance
Steve, Host
It is, and it isn't. The recommended interval for oil changes is 7,500 miles under "normal" conditions, and 3,750 for "severe" conditions (as you suspected as being possible). Unfortunately the Edmunds maintenance page doesn't make that distinction and is thus somewhat misleading.
A LOT of dealers will talk the customer into the severe maintenance schedule as a way to pad their income. They'll use their customers' fears of problems to talk them into coming in twice as often.
The owner's manual clearly states the following as the requirements for the severe maintenance schedule:
...if you drive your vehicle mainly under one or more of the following conditions:
Driving less than 5 miles (or 10 miles in freezing temperatures) per trip
Driving in extremely hot [over 90 degress] conditions
Extensive idling or long periods of stop and go driving
Trailer towing, driving with a roof top carrier, or driving in mountainous conditions.
I would assume that "mainly" means at least 50% of the time (thank ardvarkus for this info to copy and paste). So if you spend 50% of your time in long periods of stop-and-go traffic (and some folks do), then the severe maintenance schedule is legitimately recommended. But for a lot of folks, it isn't legitimate. The dealer will ask, "you have stop and go on your commute, right? well, you should get it done more frequently, Honda says so."
There is a somewhat different "severe" definition for VTM-4 fluid changes, another area that dealers often overcharge for and make too frequent.
Also worth mentioning here is that many dealers lump unnecessary services into their 15k, 30k, 60k, etc. "packages." Sometimes they itemize those after you get the service done, sometimes they don't.
Steve, Host
TSB 03_060 Scraping or Popping When Opening the Tailgate
September 23, 2003
Applies To: 2003 Pilot ? From VIN 2HKYF18..3H500001 thru 2HKYF18..3H562075
SYMPTOM
The tailgate makes a loud scraping or popping noise as it nears its fully open position. This problem usually happens in hot weather.
PROBABLE CAUSE
The front edge of the tailgate spoiler trim is too high, and the T-bolts on each side of the spoiler trim stick in their tracks.
CORRECTIVE ACTION
Replace the foam under the tailgate spoiler trim with 3M Scotchfoam tape. Remove any plastic flashing from the T-bolt tracks so the bolts move freely.
CUSTOMER INFORMATION:
The information in this bulletin is intended for use only by skilled technicians who have the proper tools, equipment, and training to correctly and safely maintain your vehicle. These procedures should not be attempted by ?do-it-yourselfers,? and you should not assume this bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle has the condition described. To determine whether this information applies, contact an authorized Honda automobile dealer.
Consumer Guide says:
Standard Side Curtain Airbags, optional rear side airbags.
Since all 05 Accords have side curtain airbags, it is hard to believe Pilot won't have one.
When you add up all of the improvements for the 2005 Pilot, It makes me wonder if anyone will pay $8k more for an MDX. Unfortunately, it also will be depressing for recent 2004 Pilot buyers, unless Honda raises the 2005 prices significantly.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Anybody has any idea about the low-end torque of 05 Pilot? How is the stop line acceleration?
My Accord is 240HP and 212 Lb. I'd rather have it at 212HP and 240Lb.
Not trying to be a stop line fighter. In CA, all those crazy drivers on the road means one must have very good short distance acceleration onto the freeway. Besides, the ramps on a lot high ways are so short and it makes one wonder what are those architects thinking.
With the MDX, mechanically it is essentially the same vehicle as the Pilot. The added horsepower rating for the identical engine is through exhauset system tweaks. I personally can't tell the difference driving them back to back. The same suspension gets a bit more sound insulation. As for the interior and body style, unfortunately I don't particularly care for the MDX exterior looks, so it's almost a toss up for me on that front, notwithstanding the nicer interior amenities. So for me, the MDX vs. Pilot price difference does come down a lot more to "content" and, for 2005, Honda has closed that gap considerably.
If Acura produced a 6-speed MDX with 300 "real" horsepower and a significantly upgraded suspension to give a completely different drivign experience than the Pilot, I wouldn't be making the comparisons I am.
Curiously, no mention of side curtain airbags. Hopefully they're wrong about it, because that'd be a horrible omission given the competition.
2005 MDX changes include XM radio, Bluetooth on Touring models, OnStar on nav models, the same fuel tank improvement, an improved VSA, Brake Assist, the same nav upgrade that the new TL has, the same 3 new colors.
www.hondanews.com has some of this. It's possible the Pilot list is missing an item or two.
So, I see it as the TL is a higher HP, sportier ride, upgraded interior, and different exterior compared to the Accord. All the same can be said for the MDX over the Pilot. The TL gets voice activated NAV (along with climate control and stereo) over the accord .... isn't that about it? So I could see the same difference existing between the pilot and Mdx. So go ahead and give the Pilot a moonroof, etc. If both the TL and Accord can exist (and both sell well) with these differences, than so can these 2 suvs.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I notice almost no difference in the ride and handling of an MDX vs. Pilot. Which is to say both are considerably better than our Trooper, but neither are in the same league as the X5, Cayenne or even the XC90, IMO. The MDX may be slightly quieter and seem smoother than the Pilot, but I would never describe it as 'sporty', that's for sure.
I still don't quite follow your logic on the TL vs. Accord. You could insert that the "545i" has higher HP, sportier ride, upgraded interior, and different exterior compared to the Accord and be just as correct. Edmunds staff and other reviews I've read generally describe the MDX and Pilot as "mechanical twins". So I do think Acura is setting itself up for the same problem Nissan/Infiniti has had trying to sell two cars with negligable differences (Maxima / I35). Acura itself should have learned a lesson from the old SLX (i.e. re-badged Trooper + $10,000).
P.S. The pre-2004 TL would never have made it to my shopping list. Nice car, but not at all competitive with the other "sport sedans" I was considering. But, even then, it wasn't really a mechanical twin of the Accord. If you want to be really strict about it, the only vehicles made by either Honda or Acura that are unique, ground up vehicles unto themselves are the S2000 and NSX.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
If it turns out to be true, at least make it an option. Otherwise, I have to switch to Highlander or maybe 05 pathfinder, which claims to be much bigger and more powerful.
But you seem to be saying that the TL and Accord are essentially the same vehicle or at least share as much in common as the MDX and Pilot? What do they have in COMMON, other than a base starting platform? (which, by my previous example of the 5-series, X5 and 645i is an hardly the basis for classifying two vehicles as similar). As best I can tell, everything that gets attached to that platform is different on the TL vs. the Accord. Note that I'm not trying to bring the Odyssey into the mix as a "triplet" to the MDX/Pilot just because it shares the same paltform.
I guess my bottom line is that the Pilot and MDX are essentially mechanical twins and the TL and Accord are not. And the added power (rating) of the MDX obtained through exhaust system tweaks and premium gas is nearly imperceptible to me. Fro 2005, it will be even less so. So I am inclined to compare the MDX and Pilot head to head based upon "content" much more so than the TL and Accord.
P.S. I've always thought that the distinction between Honda and Acura in terms of "badge snobbery" is tenuous at best. Our TL is a very nice car, for sure. But my S2000, lack of luxury gizmos notwithstanding, was and is the most technologically advanced car produced by the company, period. Certainly more so than the 12+ year old outdated NSX. And it's a HONDA. I wouldn't have paid a nickle more for it or liked it any better, had it been badged an Acura.
Acceleration and isolation was good on the TL.
I know they are both made in Marysville Ohio and share some design elements but they truly are different cars.
If I read the 2005 info correctly, the variable cylinder management that was rumored also didn't make it. Perhaps 2006 will get VCM and side airbags.
And it does not appear that Honda has fully resolved this issue, and my impression is that it is a bigger problem than Honda is willing to admit –or- maybe not.
So the $64k question how is it, that none of Honda products get the dreaded black-check marks on Consumer Reports. This tranny problem has been on going now for 4 years, so how does Honda manages to keep its stellar reputation somewhat intact??
And i wouldn't call the pilot and mdx mechanical twins. Again (supposedly) different suspensions, different exhaust, different heads, different intake. Only mechanical similarities I can definitely point out are the engine block, tranny, and AWD system.
We ARE talking about the Pilot. We were comparing it to the MDX and the discussion is how both the MDX and Pilot can exist and do well for Honda. The TL and Accord are brought in as a comparison of how 2 vehicles from the same manufacturer with similar properties can exist at the same time and do well in the marketplace. So now we are all caught up ....
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Well, you may not, but Edmunds, Consumer Reports, Road and Track, Motor Trend and just about everyone else does. Read through the specifications and you will find nothing but slightly different "tweaks" to the engine, suspension and other major mechanical parts.
Let's leave the Accord and TL out of it, for the sake of sticking to the subject. Besides, you never would have made the statement about the 6-speeds being the same if you had ever actually driven them. The short throw close ratio 6-speed of the TL has more in common with my former Honda S2000 than the long throw wide ratio Accord 6 speed.
Getting back to my point - I think anyone looking carefully at value is going to have a tough time justifying the price difference of a 2005 MDX over a 2005 Pilot. Not to say the MDX isn't a fine vehicle, just that the Pilot has really closed the gap. And this isn't coming from someone who wants to pump the Pilot because they can't afford the MDX. Other SUV's on my list include the $50k GX470 and not very practical $60k Cayenne S. Neither of which would make me feel imprudent for going for them over the less expensive 4-Runner and Touareg. But the MDX would. So, as an Acura owner and fan, with a budget that can easily cover the MDX, Acura SHOULD worry that I view the Pilot as damn near the MDX in appeal. And at $7k+ less, way the heck ahead in value.
P.S. The TL 6-speed has a stiffer suspension than the automatic, Brembo brakes and a high performance tire package. There is a greater differnce between the handling and performance of a 6-speed and automatic TL than between a Pilot and MDX. Sorry, I should have left that alone. This is the Pilot forum.
P.P.S. Did you think the SLX was a different enough vehicle than the Trooper Limited to warrant a $8k premium. That, by the way, is the lowest resale value Acura ever made, so the used car market certainly didn't think so.
I agree that they are mechanically very similar. But "nothing" is not accurate. Their transmission designs are very different.
The 2005 Odyssey gets the newer transmission design from the MDX. Maybe the 2006 Pilot will.
The 2004 brochures I have for each model are suspiciously limited on providing information that allows a direct comparison. The MDX brochure gives more detailed information regarding the gear ratios, etc. The Pilot only gives the final drive ration which is different than the Pilot by a small amount (4.375 vs. 4.428). If you do the math, that happens to be exactly the difference in the ratio between the circumferance of the Pilots 16" 235/70 series tires and the MDX's 17" 235/65 series tires.
I have heard that the MDX automatic transmission was redesigned, as supposedly was the Acura TL's. But I believe early production 2004 vehicles of both models were added to Honda/Acura's recall campaign. I haven't been convinced with actual facts that there isn't still a potential problem.
We could end this debate immediately, and get my wife and me to by an 2005 MDX the moment they come out, if Acura would put a TL style 6-speed manual transmission in the MDX. Same goes for the Pilot. In nearly 30 years of driving for each of us, neither of us has ever owned an automatic. Unfortunately, now seems like a lousy time to break that streak, given Honda?Acura's ongoing problems. And our only manual choices, the X5 3.0 and Cayenne V6, dont give us the "utility" we would like in an SUV (although plenty of "S").
The 2003 MDX received Honda's new "compact transmission," which the 2005 Odyssey now receives.
Needless to say, the source has diagrams and part numbers and the transmissions are clearly different designs. The casing is different, the assemblies are different. It's definitely a different transmission. E.g. if you compare the diagrams of the Pilot transmission to the previous MDX transmission, or the previous TL, there is little difference. Same casing, same assemblies. Mostly the difference are in the part numbers.
But I believe early production 2004 vehicles of both models were added to Honda/Acura's recall campaign.
That is not correct. The MDX's new transmission has not been the subject of a recall. You can look at NHTSA's site and the recalls are listed.
Now, whether the new "compact transmission" in the MDX and now the Odyssey is any better than the previous one, we won't know for a while. I have seen reports of failures in the new one but it's difficult to determine if it's part of "normal" statistical failures or an alarming trend. I have also seen reports of quite a few old-transmission models being replaced.
The only transmissions affected are some years of the older transmission architecture, found in Pilots, the current (soon-to-be-replaced) Odyssey, CL's, previous (and current?) TL's, and Accord V6's.
They all share the same basic design with some variations (e.g. SportShift or whatever Honda calls it. I have not seen any information that says that the 2004 TL's automatic is of the new generation, BTW. Got any links? It could just be another variation of the old design, labelled as new, and thus subject to the recall.
The MDX stopped using its variant of the older transmission design in 2003, and the new design hasn't been recalled yet. (You can easily search previous years in NHTSA's database to verify this.) The 2005 Odyssey uses the newer design, but the 2005 Pilot continues with the older one.
Current Pilot owners who think they may be subject to the recall don't have to wait for any mailed notice. They can call up their dealership, and the dealership can look up the VIN in the computer and schedule an appointment.
Honda's own press release:
"American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today announced that it will expand its existing voluntary recall of light truck models for a potential transmission defect to include certain Honda and Acura passenger cars. The voluntary action involves approximately 499,000 Honda and Acura passenger vehicles with V6 engines and 5-speed automatic transmissions. Affected models include certain 2003 and early 2004 model Accord V6 sedans and coupes, 2000-2003 and early 2004 Acura TL sedans, and 2001-2003 Acura CL coupes."
Recalled or not, Acura/Honda have a serious issue on their hands, given the "Ford-like" way they have handled this matter. Speak to any honest service manager at a large dealership, and they will acknowledge that a significantly above average transmission failure rate was occuring 1-2+ years before the first recall notice was issued.
So, rather than give me a lesson on research, what say you to the apparantly incorrect information on the NHTSA site regarding the TL? Only slightly better than not doing any research is putting 100% confidence in a single source of information.
The aforementioned transmission recalls are in the NHTSA database, I just checked again for each model of the subject years.
FWIW, I suspect that even with the recall's adjustments, we haven't seen the end of problems for these transmissions. JMHO and some will doubtless disagree.
"Did you think the SLX was a different enough vehicle than the Trooper Limited to warrant a $8k premium."
whoa. whoa. now, let's not get confused here. I NEVER said the MDX was worth the price premium over the Pilot. I said that I feel enough buyers would pay the premium to justify the existence of both vehicles. Am I one of the buyers? Heck no.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
so, with all this added content on the Pilot, anybody thinking about trading in their current model? Our '03 is starting to look like a poor deal compared to the new ones. If the '05 does come with a sunroof, we'd definitely think twice. Only real dilemma is whether or not we'd be willing to start our payments all over again after already putting 18 months into this one (not to mention an aftermarket moonroof - the only thing that kept my wife from wanting an '04 was that we'd have to go through that effort and expense again).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I've seen others having dash rattle problems. Has anyone figured out how to correct it? Seems like there are 3. One is the drivers side dash speaker cover, which i can wiggle, another right over the radio - slight pressure stops it but it's not comfortable driving with a hand on the dash, and the other on top of the instrument panel, halfway back to the windshield, again, slight pressure eliminates it.
I think the cargo cover rattles as well, it's not the tightest fit when mounted.
Looking for a quick fix. Mechanically inclined I am. Not practical to take to dealership - the closest one is 2 hour drive and service is closed on weekends.
THANKS
New 255hp engine with DBW (Drive by Wire Throttle Control System)
Addition of Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) with location indicator
Revised 4th and 5th gear ratio
VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist) on EX-L models
Addition of driver seat position sensor and passenger seat weight sensor that correlate to front airbag deployment
New fuel tank design (40+ miles of range)
Slight frame changes to improve IIHS ratings to “Good” in all categories
Revised steering pump for enhanced on center feel
Revised IP: ambient light added plus a new 6-disc CD changer for EX and EX-L trim levels
Driver footrest added
Improved sunroof with wind deflector for EX-L trim
New integrated remote key fob
Keyless entry added for LX trim model
New Magnesium frame steering wheel
ULEV-2 Emissions rating
New exterior colors: Desert Rock Metallic, Steel Blue Metallic and Billet Silver Metallic