Honda Pilot Maintenance and Repair

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Comments

  • babybbabyb Member Posts: 18
    I don't like to be one that complains, however it can now be warranted. I got my 2003 Black Pilot EX at the end of July and I now have just 2600 miles on it. In early August it went in for a noise that sounded like it was coming from the steering column. After 7 hours of diagnoses and driving it was coming from the area between the top of the radio and the dash. So they "foamed" it and told me to see if it happens again.

    Late August it was in again for the same reason. They drove it again and heard the noise so they took the dash apart and the radio out to try to insulate it more. When I talked to the mechanic and service advisor they said that just by slightly pushing on the top of the dash over the radio it will go away, so try it again and see what happens.

    Guess what? It is happening again so I have an appointment on Friday. I work at the Honda dealership and when I was talking to another mechanic he spent a total of 21 hours trying to fix it and they ended up replacing the dash per Honda's recommendation. Honda people even came out to hear it and see what was going on. I am the third one to have problems at the dealership and the Pilots have one thing in common-they are all black.

    I am just wondering if anyone else has had this type of problem and if so, has it gone away with the different fixes?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,320
    I have had this happen on our Pilot, and, no, its not black. I have no idea how that would even be related.

    Anyway, I did discover on my own that I could push down on the center of the dash and have it go away. Had this only a few times and I haven't heard the noise in quite some time. when you get it fixed, please let me know so I'll know what needs to be done if the problem comes back and persists.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • dlake1963dlake1963 Member Posts: 16
    I just bought an 04 Pilot EX-L. While waxing the car (I always give my cars a good waxing after purchase), I noticed that the Sandstone paint color is different-darker shade- on the plastic parts and a lighter shade on the metal body. Has anyone else noticed this?
  • rugratsmotherrugratsmother Member Posts: 1
    I have the pilot for three months and it's been in the shop 4 times. The suspension system stinks!!! The SUV is extremely noisy and bouncy and is getting worse by the minute. The struts, sprins and their bases have been d changed three times. No improvement. It's like driving a boat on choppy waters. I do not recommend this venhicel to anyone. There is probably a long wait for them since this is a consistent probelme to many people that I know. Stay away from first generation vehicles. They need to realy work on this one.
  • sdesai6sdesai6 Member Posts: 3
    I have the same problem, when driving at 70mph to 80mph, you can feel a vibration on the steering wheel and car. I have had my tires balanced and rotated also Wheel Alignment. Is this normal for a SUV, that's what the dealers are telling me.
  • dlake1963dlake1963 Member Posts: 16
    Any sort of vibration you feel in the steering wheel (other than rough or grooved road) is abnormal. Usually a tire problem. Have them stick 4 new tires (and rims) on and give it a try.
    My '04 Pilot is smooth as silk on the highway and around town. It's amazingly more smooth and quiet than my '98 eddie bauer ford explorer. I wish my new Pilot had a "real time" and average mpg readout like my EB Explorer, however.
  • greentea1greentea1 Member Posts: 4
    I got my 04 Pilot EX-L RES on Sat. Today, I found some squeaky noises coming from under steering column (or under dash) when accelerating or braking in a low speed (less then 20MPH) I am sure the noise does exist in a high speed. I just can not hear it clearly. The noise seems like from plastic or foam in the dash. When I push the steering wheel, I can produce the same noise. However, when accelerating or braking, the noise comes on even the steering wheel is not touched.

    Yes! babyb, my pilot is black!!!!! Babyb, could you describe the noise you hear in your car? I am thinking that maybe we have the same problem. Did they fix it for you?

    I also hear very loud dull noise coming from back when accelerating or braking. It sounds like it is from the fuel tank because it is half full. I have driven many cars. This is my first time hearing noises caused by gasoline in a half full tank.

    Anyway, Have you experienced the same problem? Thank you for sharing.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,320
    The noise problem mentioned earlier is from the center stack over the radio (reread it and you'll see what I mean).

    The sloshing gas tank is an issue that many owners have complained about (and I hear in our Pilot very often). As far as I know, there is no fix for this at this time.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • greentea1greentea1 Member Posts: 4
    I did read your msg. I tried everything and pushed everywhere on the dash wherever i can land my hands. It did not help at all.

    Could you describe the noise in your car?
  • sdesaisdesai Member Posts: 1
    Thanks for your response. My concern is that why does my vechial only has vibration at 70 - 80MPH. Do you really think that Honda dealer would put on new set of tires and rims? At this time I only have about 2K miles on my car. My wife does most of the driving. As soon as I make a long trip on the car, that will give me a better feel of the vibration. The vibration feels like when the engine is reving up at 2RPH + you can feel the vibration. Once the car is not reving and the RPH drops down then the car is driving smooth. I am not sure if this make sense.
  • malfonmalfon Member Posts: 2
    Found this site about 2 weeks ago. I've been checking the messages everyday to see how bad the problems are. I've got a deposit on a 04 Pilot EX, Not black, Sage. I'm getting a little worried to the point of taking the Dealer with me on the highway before I make the big plunge and bringing the speed up to 70 - 80. Just to be sure I don't hear the steering, the gas tank or the vibration in the steering.
    What do you think. Back out or proceed?
    How bad are these problems compared to the overall performance?

    Thanks for your anticipated opinions.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,320
    I think you may be experiencing a different problem than what I have heard on mine. If yours is under the steering column, you may have a loose column. Maybe just a clamp under there needs to be tightened. Or its the dash rubbing on the column.

    Mine is the very top of the dash over the radio. I've only had it happen a couple of times. It sounds just like 2 pieces of plastic rubbing together. Or the sound of leather on plastic. Just a very slight and deep-sounding squeak/creak. If I push slightly on the top of the dash, it stops. So I assume its where those 2 dash materials come together (the black top and color-matched dash).

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,320
    Like I've stated before on these boards, I think many of the problems you are reading about the Pilot are so minor and so few when you consider the fact that there are well over 80,000 of them on the road. To hear a dozen complaints about vibrations and maybe even 100 complaints of squeaks or rattles is, in my book, a VERY good percentage. You gotta figure there are well over 70K owners who are so happy with their purchase that they don't even need to seek out a forum to vent on. (and I don't mean that in a negative way - if you have problems with your Pilot, by all means, vent.)

    You will never find a vehicle that doesn't have complaints. I happen to think, at this point, this particular vehicle has very few complaints in comparison to many many others.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 25,727
    Out of 80000 owners, how many are internet users?
    OUt of the internet users, how many are reading Edmunds?
    Out of the ones reading Edmunds, how many contribute by writing a note about their problem?

    Let me estimate 5000, 200, 50.

    So the sample is 50 out of 80000? Using t he ratio of 50/80000 to extrapolate the number of problems that are represented by the extremely small sample of Pilot owners who have written a complaint here, I estimate a lot of vehicles with the problems noted here...

    RE: "You will never find a vehicle that doesn't have complaints."
    Some on the Civic board and Accord board don't acknowledge there are problems with the vehicles.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,320
    some on the civic board and accord board? sure, some here to. But there are still complaints nonetheless.

    I think you underestimate how many people with complaints seek out a forum to vent on. As a matter of fact, on another board I frequent and use to get information for the folks here on this board, there is a list of all the vin numbers and owners who use the board. Right now the list is over 1000. And that's just a count of the people who chose to post that info. Not everyone using the board has done so.

    Out of that, I have seen VERY few who are completely disgruntled with the car. Maybe a handful, if that. Then there are maybe, and I'll overestimate, 20 who have big complaints, but still like the car. The rest are very happy owners. Sure, there are probably a couple hundred who have complained about something at some time, but they have admitted that they are small complaints and don't affect their love of the vehicle.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • dako_tiandako_tian Member Posts: 298
    imidazol97: You are correct, I think, if what you're saying is that nothing useful pro/con can be extrapolated from the sheer numbers of complaints posted here nor anywhere on the internet. As you point out, the only people reading and posting here are those with problems, those looking to see what the extent of the potential problems might be, and those with a penchant for being "present" on public boards like this. In any case, this is nothing like a scientific sampling of the vehicle owners out there.

    The other caveat on rattle/noise complaints, IMHO, is that of the power of suggestion. Maybe I'm the only one, but there have been occasions when a noise was present -- in the car, at home or in the office -- that I didn't even notice until someone asked if I did. Then, once I "tuned in" to the noise it proceeded to drive me nuts and I could almost hear nothing else.

    In the car, a rough section of roadway causing a "funny" noise has sometimes left me wondering if a tire is going flat or the suspension is in the early stages of some imminent failure. From that point onward -- until and unless something else grabs my attention to make me forget about it -- my ear is so tuned to strange noises that I hear all kinds of things on which to form wild speculations of failure.

    This is not to say that there are not annoying noises that really should be fixed. But you have to ask yourself: if you have to turn the radio off, tell everyone to be quiet and listen carefully for the noise, then how annoying is it really? Or is that behavior itself even more annoying still? ;-)

    Peace (and quiet) to all!
  • sjwsmwsjwsmw Member Posts: 131
    I have the same dash noise as well. I have a different dash noise when the dash is hot from sitting parked in the sun. A louder rattle/vibration that ceases when I press down on the dash in the valley between the radio and speedometer humps.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 25,727
    dako_tian:
    You said well what I was trying to say. The number of contemporaneous readers that are Pilot OWNERS reading during, say a month, is low compared to total Pilots sold. I'm not an owner but I'm reading. The number of nonowner readers may be greatly higher.

    The validity of and meaningfulness of the sample here is more in the eye of the reader. Proponents see few problems. Detractors see numerous problems represented. I read to learn what's there to tell friends who have Pilots what goes wrong so they can "tune in to it" -- IF it starts occuring in their Pilot. I read to suggest to friends as they shop what might happen with Highlanders, Pilots, Pacificas, etc., if they buy one.

    grbrozen:
    Even Edsel owners loved their car. I even liked my 73 Torino... but many cars do have problems that should not be happening.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,320
    of course. I'm willing to even say ALL cars have problems that should not be happening. There is not one car that is totally exempt from its lemons or even its little faults.

    I just find it funny when the majority of complaints are about things like a sloshing gas tank or wrinkled leather and it makes shoppers think "geez, this just might be the worst Honda ever!" Guess that's just my point of view. Personally, I've had nothing to complain about of any real substance on this vehicle. I've seen several posts on a dedicated Pilot message site from potential owners asking if they should buy it because of all the problems they read about. Not once have I seen an owner say not to buy it. That says alot to me. To put that in perspective, the last car I bought for myself was a '98 Volvo S70. I bought it even though I ran into dozens of owners here and on other sites who said DON'T BUY THIS CAR. I decided that their complaints were, in many cases, nitpicking garbage and, in the cases of valid serious problems, few and far between. I have not regretted owning that car once in the past 2 years I've owned it.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • babybbabyb Member Posts: 18
    When you spend $30k or more on a vehicle it should not develop problems like some are. Granted it is a first generation vehicle, but Honda has come up with the spoiler fix and I know they always are looking at was to make things better.

    I had a couple problems with my Accord sunroof and after two times the noise was gone and never came back. I guess if I would have found out the noise after more miles were on it, I probably would not be as dissatisfied. This being my third new Honda, I expect something to be fixed. Yeah I have lived with the other noises. One of them was actually in the steering column that ended up getting fixed when the column came from the factory off centered.

    After talking with the service manager he is thinking it is with the darker vehicles since they retain more heat, especially with the dash exposed. Sure it could go away in the cooler weather, but I am sure that it will be back when summer comes around again. I just don't want this to be a continous problem until my lease is up in 33 months.
  • greentea1greentea1 Member Posts: 4
    Today iI took my 04 Pilot back to the dealer. After 4 hour and many oil stains on the seat and dash, they found the body creek under driver side dash was caused by dash mount bolt came loose. So they adjusted dash and retightened the mount bolt and the noise went away. Now the car is as quiet as it can be and smooth as silk. DARN! it is a wonderful car!!!
  • dlake1963dlake1963 Member Posts: 16
    If there are 80,000 Pilot owners out there, I bet over half of them are on the internet. The Pilot is a $30,000 automobile! Don't sell people short. Most investigate pretty thoroughly. Your numbers for Edmunds users and people who then contribute may be accurate, I don't know.
    However, this discussion is called "Problems and solutions," so problems are going to be posted. I would say we've got a very biased sample of Pilot owners!

    Even though I've had it less than 2 weeks, I should say that my new '04 Pilot seems like a very well-built car. It rides smooth as silk and is incredibly functional.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,320
    Hey, loose bolt. Do I win? Ok, so it wasn't a column bolt, but it was in the area, right? ;)

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • twebb4twebb4 Member Posts: 3
    Discounting the excuses for "its a new model," my Pilot's problems reflect little more than poor workmanship and component failure. My Pilot has more in-dash and side panel rattles than an old Ford pick-up. I am really trying to like this vehicle. Visiting the dealership monthly was not my intention on purchase. I can't and wouldn't recommend the Pilot. Believe me,I would rather use this space to offer compliments. twebb
  • babybbabyb Member Posts: 18
    I do not normally like complaining either, and I would not do it unless it was fully warranted. My mom's 1998 CRV had less engine noise compared to the rattles and other noises that should not be happening in my Pilot. What model Pilot do you have, and how long have you had it?
  • sdesai6sdesai6 Member Posts: 3
    So is this a common problem. Has anyone else had this problem with their Pilot vibration at 70 to 80mph? How was the problem fixed?

    Overall I am very happy with my Pilot. I have to say the 3rd seat is a waste, its very hard to get to. I would rather left that as a option, to keep the price down.
  • dako_tiandako_tian Member Posts: 298
    Since I doubt that anyone would have accepted the crater in the floor that an absent third row seat would have left, then some reasonably good looking and necessarily different floor treatment would have been required back there. The complication to assembly that the difference would have undoubtedly caused surely would have sucked up any savings such an option might otherwise have offered....
  • bbug1bbug1 Member Posts: 76
    While I'm sure we bought the best vehicle for the price range, I am not exactly thrilled with my Pilot.
    I think that the headlights are a serious problem as are the tail lights.
    There was a discussion earlier about the paint and I have to say that I have more paint chips on this than our old van.
    This car is supposed to be able to seat 8 (in a pinch), but just a solo trip to Costco makes it look like I've got 8 football players in it.
    The window/helicopter noise is another problem I have. I don't always like to have the AC on. Forget about driving with the windows open. The other day while on the freeway, our son cracked open the rear window and my ears felt like they were going to burst.
    I know Honda can do better and wish they had.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,320
    The wind vibration while having a window open?? I've heard mention a couple of times of wind noise while driving, is this what everyone is talking about?? I've owned and driven more cars than I can remember and I have NEVER had one with more than 2 side windows that DIDN'T do that. Its simple physics. The air has to go somewhere. So if you open a front window and all other windows are closed, that extra wind you are letting in bounces out of the back and comes right back up to your head. Where did you think it would go?? Basically, if you had a car that didn't do that, that car must have been mighty drafty in the rear because it was letting the wind escape back there. The easy solution is opening your window and cracking the back 2. This gives the wind an escape route before returning to your head.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • czearfossczearfoss Member Posts: 3
    I've had my 04 pilot for about a week now and just yesterday after someone got out of my front passenger seat I noticed a rattling sound while driving to another building on our work campus. I wasn't going more than 30mph. Stopped the car and pounded on the seat back until I located the sound in the seat belt receptacle post (that receives the belt buckle). If I twang it (it is on a flexible post) I get the sound - like a spring is loose in there. Doesn't happen with the driver's side. The mechanism seems to function OK. Has anyone else heard this? I'll probably take it to the dealer sometime next week (allowing a little time to see if anything happens so I don't make multiple trips).

    And regarding the "wubba" noise with windows open. Be glad we don't have sunroofs in these things, cuz every car/suv I've been in with the roof open has that sound unless you get the magic combination of window openings and roof opening... My 4runner wasn't too bad with just the windows open (sunroof closed), but I could definitely hit that wubba sweet spot pretty easily even with just the windows.
  • twebb4twebb4 Member Posts: 3
    The Pilot I drive is an 03 with Leather and about 17,000 miles. To locate an in-dash rattle I reached into the space above the "glove box" and the dash with the box about half open. I found loose wire bundles--not attached to anything. The is the space under the area where the passenger air bag would be located. In a car, loose means noise. These bundles will flop on the top of the box. I rearranged by touch and lessened one rattle temporarily. And yep I have the wind noise, the wrinkled leather seats, the drive vibrations, etc. etc. Thanks
  • czearfossczearfoss Member Posts: 3
    I've had my 04 pilot for about a week now and just yesterday after someone got out of my front passenger seat I noticed a rattling sound while driving to another building on our work campus. I wasn't going more than 30mph. Stopped the car and pounded on the seat back until I located the sound in the seat belt receptacle post (that receives the belt buckle). If I twang it (it is on a flexible post) I get the sound - like a spring is loose in there. Doesn't happen with the driver's side. The mechanism seems to function OK. Has anyone else heard this? I'll probably take it to the dealer sometime next week (allowing a little time to see if anything happens so I don't make multiple trips).

    And regarding the "wubba" noise with windows open. Be glad we don't have sunroofs in these things, cuz every car/suv I've been in with the roof open has that sound unless you get the magic combination of window openings and roof opening... My 4runner wasn't too bad with just the windows open (sunroof closed), but I could definitely hit that wubba sweet spot pretty easily even with just the windows.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,320
    mine has a sunroof. :D

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • lb17lb17 Member Posts: 4
    bobamygel,
    I also have the SRS light go on/off without any reason, I took it to the dealer and he couldn't (or wouldn't) fix it. Honda Customer Service is no help either.
    Instead of wasting my time going to the dealers, I just ignore the light.

    Is yours fixed?

    I have been driving Hondas for some time and think that overall they are tough, reliable vehicles. However, recently, over the last 3-5 years their standard is not what it was earlier.
    The Canadian made cars have more problems (as compared to the Japan manufactured ones - which seemed to run forever with minimal problems).

    Although they sell such a large volume of cars, their Customer Service leaves much to be desired.
    It is not cordial or helpful. It is deteriorating!

    Although I enjoy driving the Pilot and the SRS issue is relatively minor (I hope), I would probably think twice about buying a vehicle when it comes out the first couple of years (they have more defects) and also whether it has to be a Honda next time.
  • patticakepatticake Member Posts: 11
    Question for everyone. It is very difficult to get a 2004 EX-L with DVD entertainment system with the color that I like. The dealer has suggested that he install a genuine "Honda" DVD system himself. I recall reading there would be an electrical problem by doing so.

    Has anyone done this? Is there any forseeable potential problem? Thanks for your help.
  • greentea1greentea1 Member Posts: 4
    Have you read enough about dash noises? Would you like your dash to be taken apart? Never do this to a new car.
  • ceadsceads Member Posts: 24
    Which is better?? other than the price of the two. which sets closer to the hood. chris
  • martivamartiva Member Posts: 2
    Many folks have complained about the noise with the windows down, but I have found the Pilot to be the most comfortable car I have ever driven with open windows. I drove all summer in Northern Virginia with the windows down as long as I was going under 50 mph. The air flow is so great with all four windows down that I never got hot. The noise only becomes a problem on the highways over 50 mph, and then I reluctantly close the windows and turn on the AC. I haven't seen a car yet that I could drive comfortably with the windows down for highway driving. I find the open window driving comfort of the Pilot to be one of its best features.
  • my_pilot_03my_pilot_03 Member Posts: 7
    I would like to know what make and model is the remote start and what was done to let the auto locks to work.

    MM.
  • my_pilot_03my_pilot_03 Member Posts: 7
    This is a great discussion board and sure there are lot of people participating in this. I appreciate the work behind all this.

    Is it possible to thread the messages per topic. (I'm sure some message boards have this feature) With this feature if i click on the subject i can see all responses posted to that.

    It will be much easier to follow a discussion and to reply them.

    Thanks.
    MM.
  • dlake1963dlake1963 Member Posts: 16
    Our 2001 Mercedes ML320 also has wind-helicopter noise with back window open. My Explorer also did this (not as bad as mercedes). I don't think the Pilot is unique in the helicopter wind noise category.
    I'm sure sorry to hear about folks having trouble with their Pilots. My 3 week-old 2004 is generally good so far. I just filled the tank and I'm getting just under 20mpg in town (19.68).
  • dlake1963dlake1963 Member Posts: 16
    Does anyone know what is the problem with the Pilot headlights? I haven't driven at night in complete darkness yet, but mine seem to work OK in the city. Too dim? Too bright? Not aimed properly?
  • tocatoca Member Posts: 147
    I'm with you. I have no issues with the Pilot headlights. I live in an area with no street lights and the high beams are fine. I think some posters found satisfaction after re-aiming them.
  • jbrutvanjbrutvan Member Posts: 13
    well, i dont know what make/model the auto start is, the remote does have two buttons on it a "I" and an "II". press once on the "I" and it unlocks the doors, press em both and the car starts put car in reverse and doors lock, put it in park and doors open. It's are alternative to heated seats for us in ohio, yep we will eat the gas from idling but with three kids under 2 its well worth it. We purchased this from a local cincinnati auto aftermarket supplier, not from your circuit city or best buy or walmart, it cost about 250 bucks.
  • t2_t2_ Member Posts: 8
    The Clifford Matrix RS-3 was installed in my '03 Pilot by a professional authorized dealer. It works well: remote start, passive arming (lock itself and arm after the last door is closed), auto door locks, blah blah blah ... and the remote will display everything.
  • dako_tiandako_tian Member Posts: 298
    "and the remote will display everything."

    I don't know that I'd want my remote displaying everything! IMHO, some things are best kept private... ;-)
  • t2_t2_ Member Posts: 8
    Why would you want to keep any of the below PRIVATE is beyond me:

    Door lock/unlock
    Car is starting
    Arm/Disarm
    Alarm has been tempted and where?
  • dako_tiandako_tian Member Posts: 298
    Sorry, I did not realize I was talking to an engineer,... or a math or physics professor.... ;-)

    I will stay in context, away from humorous-but-fun-purposefully-literal-interpretations in the future!

    No, sorry, that is not possible for me.... ;-)

    Therefore, I cannot resist asking exactly what it is that would "tempt" an alarm?!?
  • valueinvvalueinv Member Posts: 3
    Have anyone tried the wide-angle rear lens on Pilot? I guess an electronic sensor is a good choice but it could breakdown, not as reliable as a mirror.

    Alternatively, have anyone tried put any other type of mirror in order to minimize the blind spot at the back?
  • bbug1bbug1 Member Posts: 76
    While I still believe the headlights should be better, I am really satisfied with this Pilot.
    I guess I was suffering from a "grass is greener" mood and thought I'd take a look around to see what else is out there, thinking I'd find the perfect vehicle.
    I actually went and test drove an 04 Suburban (what was I thinking?!)It's big, it feels big, and it handles big. As the salesguy was telling me that Chevy is big on safety, I was having a hard time getting the brakes to stop us at the light.
    Then I went and looked at the Nissan Armada that I've been anxious to see. After looking, sitting, touching the interior, I could never, ever imagine paying 10-12k more. I didn't even want to drive it. So I happily walked over to my "boring, safe, tight (MHO), non-cheesy" Pilot.
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