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Comments
I got an EXL-RES and added a 6CD changer, running boards, cross bars and mud flaps for an out-the-door price of $32,995. Not great, but ready in a week (to add my aftermarket options).
Question for terumi1: Where is the extra $644 in your price going? Dealer fees?
My friend was getting quotes for $1500 off of MSRP down in the Bay Area. Serramonte and Stevens Creek I believe.
I will add that the folks out at University were very pleasant to deal with.
Good Luck.
A lot of helpful hints.
I thought that everything was listed on the pricing breakdown. The price of the 2004 Pilot EX-L with Navi was $30,400, which included (Im doing this by memory as it has been a while), the $495 delivery charge. I had a big posting about this, Dealer Fee that they were charging of $500. I walked away from the negotiations based on this. Somewhere, I have posted this whole Dealer Fee BS.
When I walked away from the table, they called me 2 days later. We started up again. They said they werent going to back off the dealer fee. In short, I said, well, get the money from somewhere else then. They ended up giving me $500 more for my trade in. I was very happy with the original trade in price they gave me. $1250 for a 1989 Honda Accord with 152k miles on it, a leaky sunroof, faded paint, and rust around the wheel wells. That seemed pretty fair to me. So the $500 more was to me, an actual offset of the BS Dealer Fee that they said they had to charge by state law. Again, read my previous post on that whole pile of stink. The Dealer Fee stink.
So it was $30400 plus tax and title. Maybe the difference of the roughly $600 is in that I got the EX-L Navi instead of the EX-L Res? I know the Navi costs more. Dont know if it comes up to roughly $600.
Otherwise, we love the car. People have put a lot of complaints in the complaints section about the leather seats not holding their shape. I hope this doesnt happen to me. So far so good. There seems to be a group of owners having a clunking, too. So far, so good on the clunking. And the seat belt thing that people are mentioning, well, I just dont know what to say about that. My seatbelt seems to be like the rest. If I let it fly, it hits the post. But for some reason, it doesnt bother me to give it a little help for the first couple of inches to take away its zeal to smacking that post.
We love the car and are hoping to repeat the 14 year ownership of the previous honda (I bought the accord brand new)!
Enjoy!
Just curious, because I know some dealerships charge extravagant fees while others (like the one I bought from) charge a mere $60... but they don't come down off MSRP as much as yours. In the end, money is money to the consumer, whether it's a processing fee, dealership advertising fee, discount off MSRP, whatever. I got $1400 off MSRP and paid a $60 processing fee. I'm happy, especially since I'll be driving it in a week.
And I think even moreso to the dealer. My experience with them over the years is that they will take thing down to the single dollar. And will go to the matts with you for $10! And then they will say you are being silly over a $200.00 disagreement.
As you said, it doesnt matter what title they put on whatever cost they are talking about. For them, it is profit. Be it Dealer prep, MSRP, invoice, holdbacks, incentives, accessories, advertising fees, etc, etc....the more stuff they can try and bring in to confuse you, the more chance they have of making more money off of you. It's their ballpark and they are very adept at flipping the numbers around, at your expense in the end more than likely.
And they played the same game with me. Also using psychology. As they are also good at. They got me to the negotiating table and I was pretty happy with the deal as it stood. 30.4k for the EX-L Navi. They were giving me 1250 for the Honda trade in. I was figuring 1500 before I went in (after referencing edmunds and Kelly Blue Book for the value of the car!) So, the convenience of not having to go through all the hassle of putting the ad in the paper, having strangers come to my house, and then all the actual sales paperwork, for the $250 they were making off me, I said no problem.
And then at the negotiations table, I see this Dealer Fee crap. So I walked away.
2 days later, the salesman calls me and says thanks for this and that. Throwing the lure out there. And it starts again, this time over the phone. When he, "discovers", that I am still interested, he puts me on hold, states his case to his bosses (I'm assuming), about the dealer fee crap, and comes back all professional like...stating that they will now give me $1750.00 for the Honda Accord.
And that was the end of it. They knew when they threw that extra $500 onto the Accord, they had me hooked. That's the psychology that they play, as you probably know. So the trade in basically paid my taxes @ 30.4k @ 6% here in Florida.
The rest is history!
Upfront, I just tell them I want to negotiate on a SINGLE NUMBER - the total cost (or cost difference if I'm trading) including all fees except state fees like sales tax, title fees, and license.
You can do OTD negotation too, but I've seen dealers mis-estimate taxes and license fees and if you use "total cost before TTL" you can compare deals across state lines and on forums like this.
This apporach usually avoids any surprise "doc fees", "prep fees", "advertising fees", "inventory fees", "B&O tax fees", etc. in the finance mgr's office. I occasionally have had to balk at a fee at this point, but when I explain that I made clear the total cost was the total cost early in the process, they always back down.
It always amazes me that people get so deep into a deal without getting the basic rules set up front. I see people all the time put deposits down on a vehicle without any discussion at all of whether it is refundable or not. Or say they'll buy a high-demand vehicle for MSRP without any discussion of what tack-ons will be added to the MSRP in the final tally. A simple question like, "If I decide to back out of the deal for any reason, do I get this deposit back?" can clear up no end of misunderstandings later. Ask point-blank questions and don't accept wishy-washy answers like, "Well we almost never keep a deposit." Not acceptable.
Keep them Pilot hucksters honest folks. Happy negotiating,
- Mark
Doc. Fee 53.52
Tax 1753.54 tax is figured at 6.25%.
Lic. Plates 143.00
I spent less than 30 minutes (5 minutes on the phone and 20 minutes to close the deal).
FYI to others out there in the Baltimore area, if Northwest honda calls you in accepting your offer, make sure they fax that acceptance to you. After spending last Saturday trying to buy a vehicle from them, we couldn't close the last $250 price gap between their number and mine. The salesman called me in Monday night during the snow/ice/nasty rain type stuff saying they rethought it and were willing to accept, so I bundled up the kid and my wife and I headed in. While finalizing the paperwork, the salesmanager called my salesrep (who said on the phone, "So what do you want me to do about it?") and disapeared. That was the last I saw of the salesrep. Salesmanager then came over to explain to me how they need to sell pilots for XX amount of money and tried to raise the price. Needless to say I walked out.
Saddest thing about it is the price that I was going to pay was just barely an acceptable deal, not really a good one.
Wow, that is just incredibly slimy. I would call/write American Honda and file whatever you could with your local BBB and the like. Copy the dealer ownership on everything.
- Mark
After two weeks of hard work, it was not exactly what I had hoped for, but I am comfortable that I was able to get about the best price that I personally could get. I too found that dealing with the Internet sales contacts, via email, I was able to avoid a lot of the bs (ex: large doc fees) normally associated with in-dealer negotiations. I am sure that other people with more experience and negotiating skills could be that somewhat, but I felt that I was at a point of diminishing returns.
I found that once I was able to get someone in the area to discount, the others would then begin to move to meet the other's numbers. I found that most of the dealers had no inventory and most of the conversations were regarding vehicles scheduled for April deliveries. Once I located a couple of dealers with one or more vehicles on the lot, they were more willing to negotiate.
Keep working at it. You may find a dealer somewhat outside your area that is willing to deliver the vehicle.
Good luck.
Dealer-installed options include step-bars (black), roof-rack, and typical dealer package (mud guards, etc.)
Unfortunately, there really isn't any good info yet on KBB or Edmunds to use as a guide.
Any tips/suggestions greatly appreciated!
First, are you SURE its an '04 (i.e., heated seats and fore-aft adjustable 2nd row)?
If that checks out, then let's think of a fair price for a new one. I'd say, with those accessories, I'd be looking at around $32,500 as a pretty fair deal all around. So now we are talking about a used model (not a dealer demo, right? there is a difference when it comes to titling.). Personally, I'd knock off at least 15% for this. They way I figure it is that 4-year ALG residuals on the Pilot is 52%, IIRC. That's 12% a year. This car is 1 year in the hole already. Usually your first 2 years are more severe than the 2nd 2 years. So, realistically, I would think more like 17-18% or more for first year, but then add in dealer profit again. SO, I believe my 15% should hold water. BUT, again, this is just me. So that leaves me at $27,625.
Based on what I've read from other folks who claimed to have traded theirs in or bought used, the dealer wants WAY more than $27,625, right? In which case, just buy new.
By the way, you didn't state the color. This can make a difference as well.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Yes, I'm sure it's an '04; I ran it through CarFax to be sure of everything (single owner, not a demo). Also, the color is black.
Incidentally, the dealer is asking for $28k (down from $30k originally). Edmunds.com states that a "private party" price for a comparable 2003 would be $28160 (not including dealer-options). In that light, $28k for a 2004 sounds pretty good, especially with the optional equipment added-on.
Thoughts, opinions??
11K miles is very high, especially considering these came out in mid-September, IIRC. So we're talking a bit over 4 months to put on 11K miles. Its not unheard of, though. I put on about 9K every 4 months on my daily driver, and that is even with using my wife's Pilot for all our weekend driving.
Black is a good color in many places, but I see you are in Georgia. I believe Terry over on the REal-World Trade-In Values board would say that its much less popular there than in a northern climate. so that does hurt it a little. But its not the death of it.
I would give it serious consideration, that's for sure. Lemme put it this way, we paid a hair under $29K for our EXL. So if I was presented with one with NAVI and the other add-ons with a half a year worth of miles for $1500 less, I would be very tempted. If its ultra-clean and you can't tell the difference between it and one sitting on the showroom floor with 11 miles, than I'd say its worth it. But that's just me. let us know. good luck.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
ummmmm... but i can't figure out what DFW is???
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
urchased LX for $25,673 yesterday. Dealer mistake brought it down from $26,100 (put 12,000 instead of 15,000 miles into a balloon program- ate difference). Price was $2000 under most dealers initial offers.
Thanks to Sloane Auto Group in N. Philly and Edmunds for making this experience positive. Edmunds' site allowed me to be educated and go to the showroom with actual numbers. Educated and prepared to get the best deal possible.
Thanks for everyone's help!!
Was wondering how some of you (viper 1964, gbrozen and others) paid a lot less?
What markets are you in?
I like the idea of pitting one dealer against another and I am willing to go 75-100 miles to get it.
$30,400.00 ($490.00 destination charge included). This is $342.00 over invoice.
Accesories installed at the dealer for an additional total cost of $1180:
-fog lights
-crossbars for roof rack
-running boards
-cargo protector
-cargo cover
-rear mud flaps
My advice:
- Do your research so you know exactly what trim level you require. Don't worry about options until later.
- Use the internet to identify all of the dealers within the area that you are willing to work with.
- I have found the best place to start is via an online quote through the dealer's website. You would be suprised how much of a difference that can make. I went to a dealer at lunch time got one quote and then requested a quote through their website later in the day. The web quote was much lower.
- If the dealers believe that you are serious, they will work with you via email, phone or whatever method you prefer. If you are going to finance the vehicle, pre-arrange for financing at the best rate you can find. Bring it with you and there is a good chance the dealer will work very hard to beat that rate.
- If you really want the best deal, you can't be too picky about the color. Regionally different colors are more popular. For example, dealers were less likely to discount silver pilots.
Good luck.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
I am in Jersey, by the way, and we contacted places in Philly as well. You aren't far from Turnersville Honda. They emailed us $1K off sticker back when we were shopping. Might even be better now since I believe demand should be a tad lower than when we were buying. I could be wrong, though.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Has anyone been able to get an '04 EX-L for less? Where?
My younger brother bought his at Honda World Downey for $29k including crossbar and rear mud guard. I believe he went through internet sales dept and negotiated pretty hard for it.
Having shopped for several months in and around the Northern California area, I found that regardless of exact location, be it near the metropolis or not, no one was coming too far off MSRP.
Having discovered others paying much lower prices in Ohio and Southern Cal. on this board, I decided to try. I e mailed three dealers in the greater LA area, and found what I needed.
27,500 for my EX cloth (decided leather was not necessary after reading others complaints about the seat sag)
The best price I came across in No Cal was 29,200....and a general apathy on the sales people's part as to whether I purchased or not.
I will take $1,700 to drive 5.5 hours!
The lesson learned for me is that the "internet dept." in extremely competitive car markets is where you find the deals for Pilot's.
Among other things, the guy at Gardena Honda told me that the dealers in LA (world's largest new car volume as a region)generally need to move units so they are allocated the most inventory from the factory. That way they have the inventory to entice buyers with. (none of this "we only have one on the lot and it is sold" stuff I encountered in No Cal.) He also is picking me up at the airport Sat. Finding this guy made the whole three month process well worth my time....and I feel like I got a fair deal.
congratulation! I never heard of any one picking up customer at the airport. enjoy your new pilot.