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Comments
Anyhoo, numbers still hold up.
Habitat - If the price were 10%-15% off the new car actual price (not MSRP)
huh?? What is the actual price if not MSRP?? Do you mean 10-15% off what you could negotiate a new one for? That's much more difficult to pin down since finding 2 people who paid the same price is extremely rare. BUT, if that's how you want to figure it, then it would be much easier to say xx% off MSRP since that would be a much more definitive number.
YOU don't have to consider the options, but thousands upon thousands of people want and pay for options on their new cars. And those people can't expect anything for free, so it factors into the price somehow. Just because you don't want those options doesn't mean nobody does. So this car, equipped as stated, has a sticker of over $35K (by the way, your MSRP price of $32,860 is missing the destination charge). If the buyer wants a new Pilot with these options, that is the sticker he/she would be looking at, so that's what we have to go on.
And as far as that warranty, if you choose to ignore all the issues Honda has been having with their 5-speed automatic trannies these past couple of years, that's your decision. I, for one, am taking the safe road and getting the extended warranty.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
tidester, host
(1) My MSRP price of $32,860 for an EXL - RES DOES include destination, at least according to Edmunds figures. Go re-check yours.
(2) Yes, I was suggesting he compare the price to what he could negotiate a new one for, not MSRP. What good is a comparing to MSRP when nobody (I hope) actually pays MSRP for a Pilot. This board is full of posters who are getting deals from $350 to $700 over invoice, for brand new cars. That's the relevant comparison.
(3) As far as options, I'll concede that that's entirely subjective. And if jcijoe was actually going to buy all of those options anyway, then he can add them to his basis for comparison. But in the real world, added options tend to depreciate faster than the vehicle itself and I'm sure the dealer wrote those off the day they were installed on the demo. (What are "nurf bars" anyway??)
(4) The 7/100 warranty is also subjective. As to the automatic transmission issues, the Pilot does not use the same transmission as the former Acura TL if that's what you are referring to. I'm not aware of any documented problems with the Pilot. My friend who owns a TL and had the transmission replaced after 30k miles got a free 7/100 warranty on the replacement as part of deal.
We may disagree on the subjective value of the options and warranty offered to jcijoe, but I don't know how you could ever suggest that a used Pilot with 7,500 miles for $31,680 is a better deal than a brand new one at $30,000+/-, plus whatever options and warranty he really wants.
P.S. Personally, if I were worried about the Honda's transmission, the last thing I would do is buy a demo with who knows who driving it for 7,500 miles, warranty or not. There are all sorts of other abuses that demos are put through and incorrect break in leading to poor gas mileage and other problems is hard to detect if you aren't the original owner/driver.
Anyway, I wasn't saying your method of comparison is wrong, I was just pointing out that I didn't understand you meant 10-15% off street prices when you first posted. Like I said, that's fine, but difficult to pin down to an exact number. But no big deal.
On the tranny thing, I was under the impression that various TL, Accord, MDX, and Odyssey owners have all been affected. Is this not true? Like pretty much everyone else on the internet, I'm just repeating what I've heard from supposed owners or friends of owners or friends of relatives of owners, etc, etc. Any idea where I can get the real story? preferrably right from Honda? Cause I'd love to know that i have nothing to worry about.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Steve, Host
As an aside, I do find it interesting Honda's claim that only 2% of the transmissions are affected. Three of four friends of ours that have TL's have had replacements. The odds of that happening if the failure rate was only 2% is roughly the same as me winning the Masters as a 10 handicapper.
The new TL is neck and neck with the new E320CDI as my next sedan - thanks in great part to the new 6-speed manual transmission in the 2004 TL. If only Acura would put one of those in the MDX (or Pilot) I'd be pleased to ditch our Trooper and completely forget considering the X5 3.0i 6-speed.
In any case, its not even so much that this might be the same tranny or might be the same anything they've had problems with. What is more to the point for me is that, contrary to popular opinion, Hondas are not bulletproof and not exempt from the manufacturing problems that affect ALL manufacturers. So to think that just because you bought a certain brand means you will never have problems is rather shortsighted, IMHO. Add to that the fact that I bought a vehicle in its first year of production and I am more than willing to spring for the warranty. I may never have to use it, that's for sure. But if something does go wrong in the next 100K miles and I DIDN'T have it, I'd be really disappointed in myself.
Thank you for the link, by the way, Steve. Appreciate it.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Nurf bars (I think it may be Nerf bars) is what sidebars used to be called. I haven't heard the term commonly used for about 10 years, but it was a popular term back when monster trucks and jeeps were all the rage.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Did you send out an email to bunch of dealers saying "give me your best price"
or did you make an offer up front? Or did most of you go thru an internet car buying service?
My wife and I are at the point that we're ready to start the process and i'm looking for the method that will yeild me the best price.
Thanks ahead of time.
I have sent an email to dealers stating "I am looking to buy vehicle X with the following options and my color choices are 1, 2, and 3, respectively. I am planning on purchasing the vehicle as soon as possible. Please give me your best price as I will be sending this same email to several dealers." Or something to that effect. I like to be honest that I am shopping around. I also give my name and phone number to show that I am serious.
This method resulted in about a third of the dealers actually sending me a response and about half of those actually included a price. And that leaves about one or two that are actually competitive.
I have also sent out an email (and this is mostly how I did it while shopping for the Pilot) that stated the vehicle and color choices in order of preference and the price we were willing to pay that we felt fair for both parties.
This resulted in most responses stating that it was MSRP only, but we had a few respond with quotes close to what we offered. Finally we got a call from a dealer who proceeded to offer us the vehicle for about $20 under our offer and gave us the highest trade-in appraisal once we arrived. So it worked out well.
I think the method really depends on the vehicle. I went through the 1st process with the Subaru WRX when it first came out. The 2nd process was with the Pilot. I tried the 1st process with the Pilot, but this gave very poor responses. So, after a while, we tried the 2nd method. It worked much better.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I was able to negotiate a Costco rate with a cars direct rate, and saved myself an extra $800 off of cost
Edmunds data indicates that this is just above trade in value and but lower than private party. I think I did very well, what do you think?
Also, after searching the board, it seems as though Northern California dealers are still selling Pilots for MSRP and that LA dealers are more reasonable. Still the case?
good luck!
I call the dealer on regular basis to check on the date of arrival,which has been put back 3 times already,they now say it's in production and will be with them early may.
I have nothing in writing that confirms the delivery date,just lots of phone conversations.
I'm open to advice as to whether it's worth waiting for delivery,or if I should try to get my reservation fee back(paid on credit card) and go to another dealer or even manufacturer.
Pilots are built in Ontario and Alabama, and my Pilot was built in Ontario on March 4 and delivered to the dealer in Philadelphia on March 12. I can't imagine it would take over a month to deliver a new car anywhere in the U.S.
If it's in production, the dealer will be able to provide you the actual VIN number. Use Google and search for "VIN decoder" to verify the VIN # is legit (month of manufacture is part of the #, IIRC). Confront your dealer and ask why he is lying and stringing you along.
Also, Honda's forecasts for the estimated date of mfr. are dead on. There should be no reason to have your delivery date pushed back, unless the dealer is selling your allotted VIN# to a higher paying customer and rescheduling you for their next allotment.
Print this posting and show it to your dealer and watch him squirm.
Good luck,
Elliot
Go in and ask to see paperwork for the order. If they can't produce, then walk. Your deposit is almost certainly refundable, although they may try and say otherwise. Be cordial but firm. If the money is on a credit card, you're probably within the dispute period and as soon as you say you're going to dispute the charge, they'll back down - without any paperwork, they have don't have a leg to stand on.
- Mark
I called them up asked about particular model, factory eqqipped, particular color. Salesperson (I took his name) confirmed that they have this car in stock & I can pick it up. 40 minutes later, when I came to the dealership he walked me around pretending that he is looking for the car & said that there is no car of this settings & color available & to get it will cost me extra $500+ or they can sell any car from the lot. Talked to the store manager - no sorry , no help. I spent 3 weeks looking for the car I wanted for the right price. Purchased at Windy City Honda Very good service, no hassle.
tidester, host
Dan
I also live in garden state and was tired dealing with Honda dealers in NJ.. I bough 2004 EXL with RES for $30158 + TTL from Mike Pruitt Honda in Akron, OH last month. Their internet sales department is the best. They are very easy to deal without any pressure and very fast to respond. If you do not want to travel, you can ask them to deliver it. There are three to four options that they offer. HTH. LMK if any more questions.
running boards... maybe.
warranty... not a chance. well, unless you only want to be covered for 60K miles.
Anyway, this is a good bargaining tool for the warranty:
http://www.hondacare.org
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
We got back a few responses right away and none would quote rates with out us coming in. The lowest price we got was from Burns in Marlton, NJ. The vehicle itself was $31,108, running boards were $575, rear flaps were $70, and destination fee was $490. They didn't tell us the fees. Willis in Burlington (?) quoted the same price for the vehicle but list for the running boards and flaps. Sloane in Philadelphia quoted slightly higher for the vehicle and an out the door price of $33,925.20 out the door, including flaps, running boards, tax, tags, and fees. When I did the math that made them very close to the others.
We saw the internet sales rep at Burns today who gave us the fees and our interest rates, and then he asked what it would take to buy the car today. I said I'll buy the vehicle I spec'd for the $31,108 I was quoted, meaning he throws in flaps and running boards and waives the destiantion charge, I'd buy today. He brought the sales manager over to see how much wiggle room I had. I said none.
The sales manager then told me all in-stock cars matching our spec have an add-on package (wheel locks, pin stripe, window etch, rear cargo tray, and a few other minor things) for $495, which he wouldn't come down on at the price I was asking. I said I'll take the next silver one of the truck with no add-ons and he agreed. It's not yet in production, so it is supposed to take about a month.
So the bottom line is I got an EXL-RES with running boards and rear flaps for $31,108, including the destination fee, from Burns Honda in Marlton, NJ. Tax, tags ($124), and document processing fee ($159) were extra. He agreed pretty easily to that number so that makes me think he had more room to give. However, based on what I read here it seemed like a decent deal.
http://www.hondacare.org
what are others experiences with this? the website has very little information.
Steve, Host
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
1) buying it at time of vehicle purchase means you pay tax on it.
2) purchasing it in person (unless in a state with no sls tax) means paying tax on it....
keep that in mind when not buying over phone from a dealer in New Hampshire, feel free to email me at Cosmo__K@yahoo.com for the dealer I got the $1115 quote on the 7/100 $50 ded honda care warranty with no sales tax or I can also put you in direct contact with someone at Mike Pruitt's (with a real email address instead of the general sales one) as that is where I got my Pilot thanks to this board. I live in Fairfield county CT and let me tell you, you will be so happy to get that email in writing from pruitt with a tremendous price in it (I had $400 over invoice (ANY PILOT, not just one specific vehicle) with $100 doc fee $25.25 temp tags)
I forwarded it to Danbury, Brewster, and just kept GOING AND GOING until I covered everywhere with 75 miles. THEY COULD NOT TOUCH THE PRICE. They quoted me 753 to deliver, i felt that was steep so picked it up myself. Like I said feel free to email, I'm legit not a sales guy or anything like that, all of these people saying Pruitt is where it's at are correct.
THANKS IN ADVANCE
Steve, Host
Run, don't walk to another dealership.
Most are completely bogus - they're there to allow the salesperson more room to negotiate and still get close to MSRP. On most cars which are in reasonable supply, they're silly and the sales people know this.
I wouldn't avoid the dealership necessarily - I've negotiated $500 over invoice on cars with AMV stickers showing $5K over MSRP. Just ignore them.
- Mark
Has any one bargained on this doc fee? If so, how much? Thanks!
Instead of dickering over the small stuff, get your out the door price and focus on that number. Then let the dealer allocate your money to doc fees, ad fees, mop & glow or whatever.
Steve, Host