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I agree, Show me an improvement that is significant, to offset the much higher cost.
I know the American public keep buying these little SUV's. They have a less than desirable roll-over safety record. A good handling smaller car is a wiser, safer choice.
Dont believe me? Read the article.
After promising the debut of this vehicle for a good three years, Ford is finally bringing the highly anticipated Escape Hybrid to market. First shown as a concept at the 2001 Los Angeles Auto Show, the Escape Hybrid promises great fuel economy (in the range of 30 to 35 mpg) along with spirited V6-like performance. With the price of regular gasoline currently flirting (in L.A.) with $2.50 a gallon, the timing couldn't be better. Of course, there's also the benefit of reducing the consumption of a finite resource and reducing air pollution. But if Americans' appetite for gas-guzzling trucks and SUVs is any indication, it seems that those concerns aren't nearly as important as a serious hit to the wallet. In any event, we were eager to see if and how the Escape Hybrid lived up to the lofty goals Ford has for it. Could it really get nearly double the mileage of the V6 Escape without giving up zippy performance?
Looking at this Escape, you'd be hard-pressed to tell it apart from its "normal" siblings. A 2005 model, the Hybrid shares the same updates (such as a restyled front end and a console-mounted gearshift) that the whole Escape line received this spring. If you scrutinize the Hybrid, you may notice its unique wheels and "Hybrid" badges but other than that, you might as well be looking at any other Escape. And that's how Ford wants it — why mess with the styling of the top-selling compact SUV?
The same philosophy holds true for the cabin, where the gauge cluster looks fairly standard until you notice the leftmost instrument that shows whether the battery pack is "assisting" or "charging." Within the tachometer face, there is a small, two-line message center display that shows average fuel economy, indicates estimated oil life and displays warnings such as "liftgate open." There is also the option of a navigation system, located in the center stack, whose screen can display graphics showing the energy flow to and from the various drivetrain components.
As with Toyota's Prius, the Escape Hybrid operates solely in electric mode at low speeds (up to around 25 mph or so) and low-demand (light throttle application) situations. This is why it gets higher mileage in the city, where it's quite possible to stay in electric mode most of the time. But even at low speeds, if you step into it a little more, the gas motor will fire up and kick in, relieving the electric motor and allowing the permanent battery pack to recharge. High-demand situations, such as accelerating hard or running up a hill, will have both motors running in tandem. Like the Prius, the Escape Hybrid's gas engine shuts off when the vehicle is stopped or coasting, automatically (and almost instantly) starting back up when needed.
The Hybrid's 2.3-liter inline four is essentially the same Duratec unit found in four-cylinder Escapes, except that it uses what's called the Atkinson cycle. For you gearheads among our readership, this means that the intake valve stays open longer than normal after the piston starts upward on its compression stroke, reducing "pumping losses" and sending some of the air-fuel mixture back into the intake tract, thus reducing fuel consumption. Optimizing fuel efficiency in this fashion comes at the expense of low-end torque. But with a torquey electric motor on hand to get the vehicle moving from a stop and assist when more power is needed, this doesn't present a problem.
The gas engine is rated at 133 horsepower, while the electric motor is rated at 94 horses. When combined, they make 155 hp, which may seem odd, as you probably think it should be 227. But there is a formula used to calculate total output and it isn't simply a matter of adding their output figures together. Although 155 ponies doesn't sound like much, the broad power band of the electric motor means that the net result is indeed V6-like performance. On our driving loop, which included running up the Hollywood Hills and cruising at 75 mph on the freeway, the Escape Hybrid felt as energetic as an Escape V6.
In place of the usual automatic transmission, a continuously variable transmission (CVT) does a fine job of delivering the power in a seamless fashion. It's also pretty quick to step down to a lower ratio (we'd say gear, except it doesn't have those) when you want some pickup. To maximize efficiency, the Escape Hybrid employs regenerative braking that in effect turns the electric motor into a generator upon deceleration. When the driver lifts off the gas pedal, the spinning motor sends energy back to the battery pack.
Unlike a full electric vehicle, the Escape Hybrid never has to be "plugged in" for a recharge. The battery pack is kept charged by the gas engine and the regenerative braking feature. The pack itself consists of a relatively compact unit under the cargo floor comprised of 250 D-sized nickel-metal-hydride batteries. Those worried about the longevity of the pack can take comfort in the 8-year/100,000-mile warranty that Ford provides for it.
In the spirit of this vehicle's mission, our day started with a contest to see who could get the best mileage on a brief six-mile loop around downtown Culver City, Calif. We paired up and set out, keeping in mind the tenets of maximizing fuel economy: going light and easy on the gas and keeping any sudden changes in direction or momentum to a minimum. My driving partner and I had an all-wheel-drive Escape Hybrid, which Ford estimates will pull 32 mpg in the city and 27 on the highway. Front-drivers earn higher estimates of 37 city and 30 highway.
For the record, this leadfoot, who drove as if an egg was beneath the gas pedal, got 35 mpg and was near the top of the list (for the AWD models). Alas, the celebration was short-lived, as my partner got 50 mpg on her go-round! Of course, she had almost all green lights, while my efforts were hindered by a string of reds But all kidding aside, we were thoroughly impressed by the fact that we both soundly beat Ford's own city estimates for the AWD version. Our only complaint with the powertrain was a minor one — the engine gets a little buzzy while maintaining speeds of 55 mph or above on long uphill stretches.
Beyond the cake-and-eat-it powertrain, the Escape Hybrid performs like any other Escape. That is to say, it delivers a pleasant driving experience with handling that is more sport sedan than SUV. The electric power steering (exclusive to the Hybrid) was natural in feel, so none of the enjoyment of taking an Escape through a twisty road was lost.
We have to admit, there were some jokes going around the office about when Ford was finally going to bring the Escape Hybrid to market. "They're waiting for gas prices to go up." "It's a Ford, look how long it
For the record, this leadfoot, who drove as if an egg was beneath the gas pedal, got 35 mpg and was near the top of the list (for the AWD ). Alas, the celebration was short-lived, as my partner got 50 mpg on her go-round!""
Duh!
I already commented on the non-usefulness of that very Short, 6-mile drive to maximize mpg. This is NOT Real live conditions.
I certainly trust the total average MPG the Wash Post Auto Critic got over several hundred miles, than this contest to maximize MPG that Edmunds offers in place of a serious MPG measurement.
The W post guy still got 30 city. I expected that. This is far better than any small SUV city numbers, even a small civic's. That is the advantage o fthe hybrid, engine shut-offs, brake regeneration of power, etc.
I also buy its 23 mpg highway, since the escape hybrid is 500 lbs heavier than a comparable non-hybrid, and on the highway, all the hybrid advantages abov edissapear.
The prius is rated 60 city, 51 highway. City is 9 mpg better,
if one accepts that the Escape gets 30 city, therefore one would expect to get 23 highway, 7 mpg less.
Perhaps the Wash post test Eacape Hybrid was the AWD, not the 2WD version.
Big difference. Even in the Edmund test, the 2wd got an alleged 50 mpg!
So, o.k., the focus is on mileage and "performance". But, geesh, the guy seems to be BOWLED OVER by what, 23 MILES PER GALLON, vs. 21 EPA MPG for a comparable Hyundai Santa Fe? Whoa! I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for this car.
The review reinforces a conclusion I've been coming to. If fuel economy (and national energy-independence) is the issue, for the kind of driving most Americans do, in the heavier cars many of us drive, modern diesel is the way to go. Hybrids are at their best in light-weight cars, in stop-and-go city traffic (where the review reports a relatively decent 30 MPG). But for that kind of driving, why in the world do you want an SUV in the first place?
I agree with your assessment of the greenies in Hollywood. I am curious where you got your 2026 figure for world oil depletion. The Vice President of the oil production in Alaska told me that they would still be extracting oil from Prudhoe Bay in 2050, long after he and I were retired. Alaska is a drop in the bucket compared to many of the world's oil fields. Just to stay on the subject of Escape hybrids. Any new mileage tests would be appreciated.
He drove an automatic Subaru Forester and commented that he thought it had a six cylinder engine.
Read his stuff, you'll see what I mean.
-juice
Bottom line: Escape Hybrid is auctioned off for $40,000 to support a local CA environmental organization - "Heal the Bay".
http://www.platinum.matthey.com/media_room/1087902003.html
I hope any car manufacture can solve this problem.
I think if you check into Autmotive history Henry Ford was credited with mass producing cars. They have never been the leader in gas mileage. And I have owned a bunch of them.
They also list 2004 models, let's not forget the 2005 Escape has a new base engine and new on board diagnostics system as well, which does much better with emmissions.
Does that mean a whole new round of failures for the people that buy a 2005 Escape? The last post said they just got all the problems from the 2003 ironed out, now they are changing to a new engine. First year of anything is usually a lot of shop time. Maybe they should do what several owners suggested, just scrap the Escape completely...
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
The problems related to the first Escapes, were not directly related to engine, moreso components overall. As for 2003, reliability improved 23% from previous year number's (according to Ford).
Secondly, the 2.3L I-4 is not a new engine. Ford has used this engine on the Mazda6i and Mazda3s. As well as the Ford Ranger. The engine is one of the better engines of it's class, and built to be pretty much bulletproof, so there shouldn't be a concern about it's reliability.
There's a version of this same engine on the Focus (engine 2.3L E) which allows the Focus to be classified as PZEV (Partial Zero Emmissions Vehicle) which is the version which will go into the Escape Hybrid.
"According to the EPA chart I am looking at the 2004 Suburban gets a 7 and the Escape a 6"
So the whining is about 1 point? Is it really an issue? No vehicle is perfect, point to one that is please.
As for the people having issues, ALL vehicles have issues. Even Toyota's and Honda's. What you mostly find online are the people complaining about the issue, over the one's complimenting the issue. How many times have you gone out of your way to tell a store manager that everything was great in the store and the service was excellent? Hence, people only speak when they have something to complain about, and that's what you will mostly see on such online boards.
If the average person is to be expected to invest in Hybrid an incenitive would be nice. That amount is mucho larger than what I got for my doemestic "solar" water heater in 1979.
Hopefully Ford and others won't use the incentives as a signal to raise prices?
And yes the reliablity issue is an even bigger issue for me. The mechanics training at the dealerships isn't up to snuff for OBD II now, let adding the Hybid marketing snafu to the mechnaics problems. How many hours of labor is the public over paying now, while the teach themsleves??? One or two weeks of training in No way makes you an expert!
I know for a fact they ARE! I and a group of car buffs (web site) (Contours/Mystiques and Mondeo owners) have been sharing and helping troubleshoot just he OBD-II. We've are using the same info that the dealers have for there mechanics. No matter how good the mechanic is we all really fell for those guys.
I'm former electronics troubleshooter with 30 plus years with the phone company and military (radios).
And now they want to add this Hybrid on them. I sure wouldn't want do that work and the conditions they have to work under.
That's why diesel (common rail) should be the next step not Hybrid. (330vdc battery packs, 42 vdc operating systems, generator/starting motor and not mention additional CPU/software.)
Oh yes EPA and clean air, give me a break, they are as out of control as the BLM, Army Corp of Engineers and the group doing R&D testing right now in area 51.
Paul Echelberger
N8BUU
PM me, my bio has my e-mail or if your a Ham QRZ has my e-mail
Then your accusing a non-entity as well since the Hybrid isn't out yet. The regular Escape has it's own board for complaining. What we are discussing so far pertains to the Hybrid, and how the media has received it so far. Real hardcore testing has yet to be done with it.
"Which I think is a big disappointment to many that have bought them."
I know numerous people with Escapes, and non have an any major issue or dissapointments with them. The closest was one who had a 2001, and she was called in for 2 recalls, and that didn't distract her from the enjoyment of her vehicle. But as I've mentioned, most of those you will see on these boards will complain because it's their mission to do so because they have a grudge of axe to grind.
I am accusing Ford of doing what Bill Gates and Microsoft do. Get the public all fired up about a new widget then keep putting off rolling it out. If you remember the first Prius. It came on the scene with little or no fanfare. then as they sold and fixed the problems they got more publicity which was mostly good. If the Escape flops Ford will look stupid and lose a lot of market share.
And now my e-mail should be visible. It's hard to keep the 15 month old grandson entertained and concentrate. Not to mention my "Forgetter works way better than the "Remember-er"!
Thanks for the complements about the Hams you know, however since the FCC relaxed licensing even Amateur community not what it was. Too much proprietary Everything in our throw away society is geared at the bottom-line, the poor engineer is not even allowed to think about reparability!
Yes I to would love to see Ford introduce a decent vehicle, also, the country deserves better.
I have to add, in honor of the Ole Marine who raised me, (in his words "luckily survived Iwo Jima") it's my duty to fight for what the WW II generation gave we Americans.
E-mail me I'll give you the title of the book about the BLM and Corp, if you,re interested?
Paul
As the same occured with the Focus and Escape...they were introduced with some recalls, and got better as time went on. The Focus itself is now one of the most reliable entries in it's segment as Ford continued to fine-tune the vehicle.
If the Escape Hybrid doesn't work for Ford, the vehicle still is the best seller in it's segment, with 17% higher sales than last year's period. 20K Hybrids won't hurt it. The Escape (as with all techonology) will certainly have it's risks. If it works great for some people, (whatever their needs are) they will be rewarded, if not they'll use it as an excuse never to buy domestic ever again.
I took the change when buying my previous Lincoln LS in 2000. And was definately rewarded taking that chance, whereas I bought another recently. Again, a new vehicle with new techonology, platform, drivetrains, etc. will definately have it's risk. IN relation to the Escape, it's just a different powertrain overall, and some numerous upgrades from last year's version.
It's like 31 flavors. ;-)
I think this thread would be a lot more interesting if people would lighten up a bit, on both sides of the issue.
-juice
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06242004/business/23636.htm
gagrice "Lexus RX 400h" Jun 25, 2004 2:49pm
Also, as mentioned above post #208 in the same message forum.
YMMV,
MidCow