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Comments
good advice. also I tend to insuate I'm paying cash so that I won't see anything approaching a 4 square box or hear the stupidest words on the planet, "so what kind of payments do you want to make?"
$1.00 a month?
They could prolly get you in the neighborhood. My CU said that they have 84month loans and can delay the 1st payment by 3 months..Yikes
DL
Giving the German car a shot was what I was thinking too. I mean my wife has the RX 330 and I had the first IS 300 and even though I liked the car it kind of wore thin after a while. I'll have to convince her to try something different.
Arrive at a target difference figure by calculation of a fair retail figure minus the fair wholesale trade value. If you don't retail the Lexus beforehand call a few Lexus dealers and ask them for a "bid to buy" on it. Let them know that you've got new rubber, a fresh detail, and a clean history. Tell them that you're going to get a few bids and then you'll drive it by for them to see it. That's what the dealer does a lot of times anyway. When you go to show them the RX tell them that you're ready to sell it right then if they are willing to stretch a little and try to get a little "bump".
This sounds like fun, doesn't it?
Thanks!
Numbers aren't numbers. As usual I couldn't disagree more. What the last guy got really isn't a reflection on what you should expect - whether that's a purchase or a sale. Edmunds' TMV is a joke because too often people are looking for the deal that the average person gets. Do you want to be in the 50th percentile? You sure don't with your salary, so why would you want to pay what 50% of the population pays? A car salesman doesn't want to net the average of what the other guys at his dealership gets...he wants to be the trendsetter. Same goes for savvy buyers...
If you tell a dealer from the start that you have a trade-in he will know he's got a lot of room to play. Just like if you tell him you're financing they can start in with "what kind of payments do you want to make?" line of negotiating that is totally slanted in the dealer's favor.
Negotiate the price of car.
If financing, then secure it ahead of time and see if the dealer can beat it (such as BMWFS special financing of 2.9% for x months). Know the numbers as dealers always try to tack on a fat profit for themselves. My dealer wanted .0006 extra on the MF on my lease. We went round and round until it was 0.0001 over the MF buy rate. I was damned if they were gonna make more than a 1/4% interest on my payments. Same with apr though...don't let them fudge your numbers. In LA Toyota and Honda got in trouble for tacking on massive extra points when they'd finance immigrants and minorities...they were literally robbing unsuspecting/uneducate people.
Obviously if it's a lease, then no trade-in as you put as close $0 down as is humanly possible when leasing. If you got a trade-in, know the car's wholesale and kdd/edmunds/nada values. KBB/Edmunds are pretty much pipe dream numbers but still aim for higher than that. Spring the trade-in on them. You're doing the dealership a favor even bothering to look at them. They're there to rob you blind - it's how they stay in business - so don't fall for the whining about profit, fairness or feeding kids. If your car is even halfway decent they'll suck it up, do some basic rehab and then jack up the price 4k over what they paid you. Maybe more.
Personally, reselling yourself will be the most profitable and it's not really that hard. Get a detail, run a carsoup ad and the car will sell (generally). If not you can always resell it later to a dealer. An RX trade in v. RX off the dealer lot means a gap of thousands and thousands. Would you rather an extra 2k on your RX's trade? Spend $150 on a detail and $30 on a carsoup ad. It'll sell.
Sounds nice. I will wait and see how it looks. 310 is alot of POWER! OMG!!!
AMT-
Yup! It will be different. I hope you get the Bimmer. After you buy it, please post here.
As for the Lexus you want to trade, best to start researching the price of sale for 3rd party. KBB is a good place to start.
Good luck.
AMT-
Not one time did it make a hill of beans difference whether the client told us he had a trade from the outset or right before they left. It doesn't matter if you're smart, dumb, tall, short, fast, slow, Jewish, Baptist, white, yellow, immigrant, immature or impotent.......whatever. The car is worth what it's worth ..........
that's it.
You villify the dealer for playing games and then you go in the dealer and play games? You just come off as a jerk and reduce your chances of getting maximum flexibility when negotiating.
It's not like these BMW's are distressed merchandise and we're begging for deals because we can't get rid of them. Be smart, be nice and you'll get great results.
that's it.
Well that's a total contradiction with the experience of many people and of course with many written reports. I believe it was Edmunds that had a guy go undercover as a salesman for months. He reported that dealers often play games and will bump up or lower trade-in values based on the negotiating on the payments, down payment and price of the new car. The 4 square is the great shell game for befuddling buyers...
You say you guys don't massage trade-in values but how can anyone believe that? Do you sit people down and show them a kbb or black book breakdown? No. A guy goes out, takes the car for a spin and then comes back and says "we'll pay you X for the car." it's a number pulled partially from values and also from what the dealer thinks people will accept. So the average 3 year old 330i is trading for 25k, but you sense this guy is just so in love with his 06 3 he won't notice if you guys say 24k. If he doesn't accept it, you can haggle a bit and then come to 24.6k. He feels satisfied and manly, you guys walk away with the possibilty of more profit on the used car. That's the game., Numbers are whatever you want to make them.
You villify the dealer for playing games and then you go in the dealer and play games? You just come off as a jerk and reduce your chances of getting maximum flexibility when negotiating.
I don't trade-in. You get ripped off. Thousands of dollars thrown away and even worse, thousands given to a dealership. I negotiate price. If it's a lease, then MF is the next step. If it's a loan, I have a loan before stepping into the place. I have my downpayment, ideally a credit card so i get FF miles and I know the current rates the dealer has.
It's not like these BMW's are distressed merchandise and we're begging for deals because we can't get rid of them.
They are distressed and you are begging for deals. The 330i had a 4200 incentive on it for months. The 2.9% financing seems to always be around. This isn't 1996 where people paid sticker on a bimmer. Those that still pay sticker on these cars are getting taken for a ride (this forum exists to help avoid that). The X3, Z4 and 5 aren't barn burners in the sales department. The x5's so long in the tooth it gets excited when it sees Cloris Leachman.
Be smart, be nice and you'll get great results
True, true. Always be pleasant, make jokes, and have a good time. But never, ever, forget they're there to rob you blind. And if you let your guard down you'll leave the dealership with a 10% loan, $2k trade in on an 03 bmw and an msrp priced car equipped with underocating, scotch guarding, lojack, an alarm and maybe an lcd mounted in the trunk "pimp my ride style".
If the appraiser hits a car for 25 grand, it's based on the market value of the car, period. Nearly all dealers have someone appraising cars that has nothing to do with the negotiating. He just appraises the car. Now if the client is offered 24 grand and accepts it than they don't back the appraisal down a grand. They put the thousand into the profit of that deal. It's an under allowance and happens next to never.
The undercover guy had some neat insights but he never knew what the cars were worth or what type of deal he was working. He was a "green pea" working at some low-brow, high-volume, high-pressure dealer. Most BMW stores are not run that way.
The only 2.9 is on the X3 3.0 and the national days supply ratio indicates that the BMW's are turning very quickly. So, that's just not true at all to say that BMW's are distressed merchandise.
We don't use a 4 square but those #'s reflect a difference figure that is the bottom line. So, whether there is a discount or an over allowance on the trade value, it doesn't matter. It's all a difference or OTD price.
kirstie_h
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That's what I get. OK, 3-series... but it's not about each other!
kirstie_h
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And then the salesguy or manager goes and tells the buyer what the car is worth. usually a lower number.
The undercover guy had some neat insights but he never knew what the cars were worth or what type of deal he was working. He was a "green pea" working at some low-brow, high-volume, high-pressure dealer. Most BMW stores are not run that way.
They're all the same...and the guy had the same access to info as the rest of edmunds' staff. You're trying to say an edmunds writer doesn't know more about cars than most salesguys? I doubt you'll find anybody in here who would support that as 95% of us know more about cars than the guys on lots.
The only 2.9 is on the X3 3.0 and the national days supply ratio indicates that the BMW's are turning very quickly. So, that's just not true at all to say that BMW's are distressed merchandise.
Never wrote all. The X3, Z4, 5 and X5 are not lighting up sales right now. You're gonna deny the Z4 is a bust? That the X5 isn't old? That 5 doesn't have tremendous lease incentives?
We don't use a 4 square but those #'s reflect a difference figure that is the bottom line. So, whether there is a discount or an over allowance on the trade value, it doesn't matter. It's all a difference or OTD price.
Man, you go ahead and keep telling people their negotiated price and trade-in don't intersect. That's fine. We know how it works.
Dealers base their appraisals on what they are doing at the auctions, not books ... they're not going to drop $15,000 into a vehicle that's doing $14,000 at the block and it stills needs $900 to to break daylight, no matter what "any" books say ... then they deduct the work, parts, any service, rubber and whatever it might take to get the vehicle to just "average" - plus the miles, plus any wonderful options in demand, minus a bad color ..... the "info" sources kinda leave that part out though ..l.o.l...
And speaking of leaving things out .. there is absolutely no advantage to leaving the trade out, that type of thinking went out after the Edsel, all it does is alienate both parties .. sooner or later that number is going to come up and it's better to get it on the table right away, then to spend 2 hours to make the deal, the have both parties walk away because someone wants $12,000 for a $9,500 vehicle ..... books don't cars, dealers buy cars ...
Terry.
Whoa, who said the dealer would lose money on a trade-in? Never wrote that. Never. They will come at a person much lower than the car's value to the dealership.
For instance, you're trading in your 03 330i. The dealer can feasibly get 31k-32k for it as a CPO. The appraiser says 25k wholesale. Go back to the owner and tell him you'll give him 24k for it. If the guy bites, then the dealership is looking a a possible windfall -
Dealerships make almost all their money in two places: used cars and service/parts. New car sales are not where the big money is. Again, this is common knowledge. Dealers buy trade-ins low (ideally far lower than the wholesale value) and resell high...the object of the game.
And speaking of leaving things out .. there is absolutely no advantage to leaving the trade out, that type of thinking went out after the Edsel, all it does is alienate both parties .. sooner or later that number is going to come up and it's better to get it on the table right away, then to spend 2 hours to make the deal, the have both parties walk away because someone wants $12,000 for a $9,500 vehicle ..... books don't cars, dealers buy cars ...
Different opinions. Selling a used car on your own is the only way to avoid getting ripped off. Trade-in is a loss proposition for the new car buyer most of the time. And it almost always gives a dealership more money. again, to each his own but I recoil at the idea of a dealer making a possible 3-4-5k extra off my deal. That's my money flyin' out the window. An extra 2-3k in my pocket is far preferable.
He's told me that most dealerships actually lose money in the trade department. After a trade is accepted and if they want to keep the car on the lot, the new car sales department is charged by the service department to certify the car. I forget the number but it was hundreds of dollars. Further, if the car needs any work, tires, etc. the sales department is charged for the work at retail shop prices. Therefore, cars that are basically clean are sold by the dealer to wholesalers because they can't make money by certifying, fixing and marketing the cars. They only keep the most saleable cars on the lot. He also told me that when they say they are on the phone contacting dealers of the brand being traded or various wholesalers they actually are trying to find a higher number for the trade.
As for the used car dealership person on the lot looking at your trade he or she is essentially in some conflict with the new car department. Both departments need to make money on the deal and make it in different ways. When you see enthusiastic discussion between the new and used car car managers standing next to your trade it is probably legit.
My friends general advice is to bring your trade in a condition that they will want to keep the car on the used car side, without having to do work on it and not have to wholesale the car.
He also said it doesn't hurt to trade at a dealership that also owns a dealership of the brand you are trading. I had a 2003 GTI that I traded to The Imported Car Store in Melbourne, FL, they also have a VW dealership and my car was nice enough to keep on their used car lot at the VW dealer. I hope this sheds more light on the trade in process.
Base: $30300
Diplomatic Base: $28785
Steptronic: $1275
Navigation: $2000
Sirius Radio: $595
Satellite Prep: $75
Metallic Paint: $475
Leather: $1450
Sub-Total: $36170
Destination and Handling: $695
Total: $36865
My question is - what number should I be targeting to end up with that you guys would consider a good deal? Is this $695 D&H fee bogus? Should I start looking for an appointment to an embassy or consul to receive the "Diplomatic" base price? Is the bargaining in the options (maybe just certain options)?
I have a couple of other ancillary questions and would love to hear opinions:
- how does the navigation system stack up to the competition? is it well-regarded?
- the sport package comes with different seats... are the standard seats grossly inferior/uncomfortable in comparison to those?
- would you advise financing through the dealer... any good deals now?
Thanks in advance to anyone who responds. I have been reading the forums for several days and appreciate what you guys do here.
I think the only exercise your getting here, is jumping to conclusions ....
First of all (your example) 03 330i's are a dime a dozen, especially this time of the year .. and the only things that will make them worth any big money will be low miles (20kish), the right color, no paintwork, all the stuff, it's an automatic and anything after that is a - deduct ...
A Bimmer dealer isn't going to drop hard fat money into one when he has to do the CPO ($1,500) drop new sneakers on it, then finish any service and then do a fat detail and pay floorplan to boot, or he can spend $500/$700 and run it off to the auction and see what it will do and hope he doesn't lose his shirt and have to drag it back ....
As far getting $31/$32.? .. that's an *asking* price, just like my neighbor has been *asking* $599,000 for his house, of course it's been sitting since last August and a pipe dream .. and most dealers will cut one of these dudes off the lot for $28/$29ish in a heartbeat because dealers do lose money on trades if they don't turn em' in a hurry .. most dealers are thinking 40/60 days in advance, so "as we speak" most Bimmer dealers are thinking August in June ... it's just business and profit is not a 4 letter word ..... we need to get you into the 21st century, well as least up to the 90's .l.o.l......
Terry
kirstie_h
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good luck.
My uncle was posted as an ambassador in Wash DC a few years ago, and was eligible to buy two X5s at this price. The BMWs (plus a Land Cruiser, an MB S500 and Odyssey) were then shipped home when his assignment was up.
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37230 purchase price
60 residual
.0014 money factor
36months
12k miles
525/month
Sound ok?
Careful with some of the opinions floating around here.
Titanium Silver
6 speed manual
Premium
Sport
Sunshades
Satellite Radio hookup only
MSRP $41,920 including destination
Paid $40,205
They also gave me a couple hundred over KBB for my trade-in. Could have done better, but I think I did alright. This is in the Bay Area, CA.
Terry.
That car with a stick shift in it rocks? You did great with the purchase price. I think that most of the salespeople in California are walking customers right at or near MSRP. Plus, in our neighborhood trades are generally under KBB. What kind of car was it?
Professionally, I'll tell you........not only was that a great selection, it's a helluva cool 'bimmer.
DL
TIA
Not one of those you can take with you and listen at home or in the office?
Unless you listen a lot in the car, you might not get your money's worth in the subscription.
I got EVERYTHING on this car except the new cruise control with the heads up on it. I will pay $45K for ZSP, ZPP, ZCW, Step, Nav, PDC, Sat Rad, and chrome wheels too. No trade and dealer financing. Sparkling Graphite, Wood trim, grey leather and Chrome factory wheels. All I can say is how can they improve on perfect? I got all the info I need to sell my perfect old car BTW I saw an Artic Blue on the street today and a Sparkling Graphite as well.
I guess if I had to add satellite I could, not too worried about the monthy subscription -- I am just wondering if anybody here has added it? Fianace guy told me usual price is 995, but will give it to me for 550 installed with BMW loaner..I think it is an OK price, and just OK..curiou what others have paid and if they think it's worth it..as time goes on I am thinking less and less of doing it, because I only have a 2 year lease anyway..and even justifying it at 275 a year is making less sense to me..but if someone here loves it, thinks it's worth the price of admission, I could easily be swayed to think it has value again. lol.
Thanks.