2013 and earlier BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

timny

You've been happy with Nokian?

timny

Right. And don't forget the 2-3% holdback!

Edmunds has a pretty good review of holdback: http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback/

kyfdx

There is no holdback on BMWs...

timny

I've ordered the sport. I suspect the second time I ahve to swap out the tires, I am going to be wondering what the point is.

kyfdx

Don't get me wrong.. I would get the sport also (actually, I did).... Swapping the tires is worth it, to me....

It just isn't the be-all and end-all... Most people drive their BMWs just like they drive their Honda Accord or Toyota Echo.... They really don't need the sport package..

The only thing is... a lot of people without the sport package, still end up having to swap out for winter tires... If you are going to do that, you might as well have the sport..

timny

That's not what I understand from someone in the back-office at a NJ dealership!

timny

... good! That will help me rationalize the extra expense! haha

kyfdx

Go to the link you provided.. It lists the holdback for each manufacturer...

timny

Yes ... you're right. I see that ... duh on my part! But I am deferring to what my friend's (now ex)girlfriend, who works for BMW, told me about their operations. Maybe it's not actually called a hold-back, but from her description it operates the same.

davidd3

The G35 came with all-season tires, but it was no match for even a little bit of snow. Was it the RWD? Was it the tires? If so, then what's the point of all-season tires anyway? Anyway, once I get my new 3, I'm going to get into the practice of changing to snow tires in winter.

I had no problems with Tire Rack. I've purchased 2 or 3 sets of replacement tires from them over the years. Good prices. Quick delivery.

As for Stern, I agree.

Let's hope that we will be among the first NYers to pay the regular acquisition fee rather than being among the last NYers to be stuck paying a jacked up acquisition fee. I would think that it would only be a matter of days after Bush signs the bill for BMWFS to reduce their acquisition fee in NY. But who knows?

saigonboi21

im goin to order a 330i today. Im tryin to make up my mind whether or not to go with SPORT Package + bluetooth or just the premium package. Can anyone give me their opinion??? Im on the fence right now, any suggestions will tip me either way. Whichever way i land i will go forward with it. Thanks

Oh- if i want the Premium the car will be here in 2 weeks. If i wanna the sport w/bluetooth- it will take 10 weeks. I guess i can wait...

mcmuney

I'm looking for lease figures Angelinos are paying on a 2006 330i. Please include the following:

MSRP:
Negotiated Price:
Down Payment:
Residual Value:
MF:
Term:
Monthly Payment:

Thanks in advance.

bmwdave

First time BMW buyer here, I'm about to get

2006 330i
Monaco Blue/Black Leather
Premium Package
Park Distance Control
Navigation
Satellite Radio
Rear Deck Spoiler
Radial Spoke (Style 196) Tires

I live in the Midwest in OK, not by choice, I'm in the military, and I haven't approached the dealer in Oklahoma City yet. That is the only one near me since I live in the middle of nowhere. MSRP price as configured is $46,530. I was thinking of approaching the dealer with a check already made out from the bank for $44,000 straight, and tell him he can take it or leave it. Should I go to the dealer first and haggle??? I've heard that I won't get much of a deal out here in the Midwest, which sucks cause I'm from New Jersey. I could use some advice. Thanks!

meangene3

2006 330i
selling px=37930 w/ prem pkg, heated seats
leased for 12k/36 mo.
put down 1205.30, including my 1st pymnt of $574 w/taxes
msrp-40170
invoice=36,795

could I have done alot better? this price was given to me by a company that leases cars through their own banks, and one of the several dealrs i spoke to was able to match it.

Still think I should have gotten the sport package, but didnt want to make this car any more expensive than it is already.

cmd130

Get what it exactly they way you want, ten weeks goes by rather quickly. My loaded 330i will be here on September 20th! It's like waiting for a new bride! LOL!

My .02 cents.

cmd130

No, I just signed a "Special Order" sheet, not a binding contract. Price is still negotiable. However, I spoke with my salesman today and final price, less tax and license, is $45,300 for:

Jet Black
Gray Leather
Steptronic Auto
Sport Package
Active Steering
Heat Front Seats
Park Distance Rear
Active Cruise
On-Board Nav
Satellite Radio

Woohoo!

skobola

Meangene3, can you tell me the name of that leasing company (that leases through its own banks)? Thanks...

kandg

This is for BMWDave..have you checked into the BMW military sales programs? You can get that same 330i at a substantial discount off of stateside pricing. The way i optioned out our BMW's was:

Sport Package
Premium Package
Xenon
Navigation

Came in at $33000 for each one (coupe and sedan) (discount of $1500 on purchase of second car)

Incidentally, sedan is a 325 and there is no major driving dynamic difference Both are manual drive..

timny

Good job!

bmwdave

Thanks Kandg, but the military sales program is only available if one is stationed overseas at the time of order. I am not overseas, but I will be one day in the future. So I'm stuck here dealings with the Oklahoma Dealerships. I'm still undecided if I should call the bank first or go to the dealerships first. Decisions, decisions!

timny

The Prez has apparently just yesterday signed into law a bill that will repeal the vicarious liability that leasing companies have used as a reason for hiking up bank fees in states like NY. (I am sure there's a more up-to-date news story out there, but here's the gist: http://www.overlawyered.com/archives/002621.html). Minmally, this means that the typical $900 bank fees we pay in NY -- and that I just paid for the lease on an X3 I've yet to pick up! -- should be at least partially refunded.

My BMW dealer says I should expect a refund from BMW. What have the rest of you encountered?

timny

Hey! Ironically, I just posted a message to that effect. Bush supposedly signed the bill into law yesterday. My BMW dealer knew nothing about it, but surely this should reduce the bank fee excused to vicarious liability. The dealer suggested I would receive a refund from BMW -- the bill is supposedly retroactive to Aug. 1 (and wouldn't you know it, I just this past weekend paid the fee for the X3 I am leasing for my wife).

What do you think will happen?

davidd3

I'm taking delivery on Sep. 2. In response to my inquiry, the salesperson said that I will be charged the reduced (regular) acquisition fee if BMWFS has reduced their fee for NYers prior to Sep. 2. So I think that I should be in good shape, assuming that BMWFS will act promptly on this.

timny

I am supposed to take delivery this week on the lease -- fingers crossed. Perhaps I should contact BMWFS directly ... ?

When did you speak with your dealership? Just curious -- mine hadn't heard a word about this (apparently).

davidd3

You're taking delivery this week! I'm soooo jealous. I've got to wait another 3 weeks and 2 days.

I raised this acquisition fee issue with my salseperson last week, when I first noticed reports in the newspaper about this aspect of the transportation bill passed by Congress. I don't know if they were aware of it or not. But in any event, their response was what I hoped for.

How is it that you already paid the $900 acquisition fee? I'm capitalizing the acquisition fee (either $900 or $625, as the case may be). So a lower acquisition fee will mean a lower monthly payment. If you don't capitalize the acquisition fee, I thought that you pay it upon taking delivery. Apparently you paid this fee in advance and are now in the position of seeking a $275 refund?

I placed my order in July (just beat the price increase) and will take delivery in September. My car is now in transit. I could possibly take delivery in late August, but I'm taking delivery in early September in order to avoid a double car payment in August (which is the last month for paying off my G35). I locked in the July lease program with an option on the lease program in effect at the time I take delivery. Perhaps you are in a similar situation (in your case maybe a June lock in and an August option). Anyway, in July the MF was .0025 and the residual was 59% for 3 years and 45k miles. Last week I made an inquiry to my salesperson about the August lease program. He told me that the MF went up and the residual stayed the same. Not what I was hoping for. But several days later I found information to the contrary on the net. It seems that the money factor stayed the same (.0025) while the residual went up to 60%. I asked my salesperson to double check. If the lease program did indeed get better from July to August, I asked him to let me know how much my monthly payment would be reduced and whether I could now lock in August with an option on September. I am awaiting his reply. How did this issue work out in your case?

timny

I am leasing a X3 and purchasing a 330. The 330's en route from Germany (so they say) and should arrive in two weeks, but the X3 is supposed to be arriving at the end of this week. I think my dealer is motivated to get the 330 in, since we agreed upon a trade-in price for a Saab convertible I am turning over to them upon arrival of the 330, and convertible season is waning!

So far, I've only put a deposit on both cars. The acquisition fee, however, is included in the contract ($900) on the lease. So I misrepresented myself indicating that I had already paid it; what I meant was that I am obligated to do so.

Now -- this is interesting. I just called BMWFS. They tell me that they have no intention at this time of lowering their fee. But they also indicated that the fee they receive is less than $900 (wouldn't disclose the amount but indicated that the dealer makes a profit off the fee.). These fees have always been represented to me as imposed dollar-for-dollar by the leasing company, but obviously that is not the case!

Now I am annoyed!

As for your other point, the MF I am paying is exactly 0.0024 and the residual is 60%.

timny

As for locking in, I don't know that I did anything special except that I insisted on a maximum monthly payment I was willing to make without an increase in the upfront costs. I think they adjusted the MF to allow for this. I know in July I was looking at a lease and was told the MF at that time was based on 1.9%, so obviously there is flexibility for the dealers, irrespective of what they tell you.

kyfdx

1) Just because the law has changed, it does not automatically mean that BMWFS is going to change their rates or policies...

2) Since BMWFS already allows dealers to mark-up the acquisition fee, you can be sure that they aren't going to rebate any of these fees, after the fact, even if they end up lowering the fee.

3) The difference is only $275 either way... I understand the value of money, but this might not be enough to worry about..

4) The person you talked to at BMWFS might be wrong about what they receive from the fee.. It is possible that they pay the finance reserve out of the fee, and only have the dealer remit part of it to them.. That doesn't change the fact that BMWFS sets the fee, and that it is non-negotiable.

regards,
kyfdx

davidd3

Maybe our 330s are on the same boat!

I have understood from Car_Man, guru of the Leasing Forum, that $900 is BMWFS' base acquisition fee for NY. Dealers can use the discretion to jack it up somewhat, but I supposed that $900 is what BMWFS gets no matter how much the dealer charges. I too am surprised that BMWFS gets something less than $900 and that dealers are profiting even on the "base acquisition fee." Maybe this also means that dealers profit even on the "base MF." And I can't believe that BMWFS has no intention at this time of lowering their fee, notwithstanding the change in law that will go into effect as of today. That's total nonsense. They will be receiving many a complaint from NYers if that's their attititude. It gives the appearance that they were taking advantage of NYers all this time rather than legitimately charging extra money to cover what they perceived to be a risk.

timny

It's more the principle of the matter for me, than it is the $ amount. Either the dealer or BMWFS is giving me (and presumably others) misinformation.

I think I mentioned walking out of the door on an Acura dealeship that tried to charge my $1025, on the excuse that this was an imposed acquisition fee set forth by the bank (when in fact I knew it to be $900). Things like that call into question for me what other misrepresentations I am being handed. I know dealers need to make a profit and it's not the $ that troubles me; it is the lack of transparency in such practice.

timny

That's total nonsense. They will be receiving many a complaint from NYers if that's their attititude. It gives the appearance that they were taking advantage of NYers all this time rather than legitimately charging extra money to cover what they perceived to be a risk.

EXACTLY!

kyfdx

1) You have a lot of info.. Some of it correct.. some of it partly so...

2) Standing on principle is great.. not of much use when negotiating a lease...

3) The current acquisition fee on AHFC leases in NY is $1095...

4) BMWFS requires the $900 fee on all leases in NY... That seems pretty simple... The internal financing arrangements they have with dealers would seem to be confidential... If you called BMWFS, you are talking to a $12/hr. call center agent.. They may know what they are talking about, but I wouldn't take it as gospel.

My opinion is that you are making it too hard.. The fee is $900. BMWFS requires that to be on your lease. I don't think anyone has misled you about that.

If you are unhappy with the lease you negotiated, I would cancel it before taking delivery.

All of this info available to consumers is great, but the dealer isn't required to tell you any of it.. Plus, BMWFS allows dealers to add additional amounts for extra profit, so it isn't in their best interests to give you this information, either.

I'm not sure of any other business that has the level of transparency in selling costs comparable to the auto industry. I think you may be asking for too much.

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx

Using the base rates, and with the acquisition fee rolled into the payment, I get $538/mo. plus tax... Don't know your tax rate, but that seems awfully close.

So.. it looks like $2200 off MSRP and all the base rates...

It looks like you've done very well...

regards,
kyfdx

timny

Hmm. You're right. Sitting with sales agents and watching them punch numbers into a spreadsheet that doesn't add up to the total they are quoting me (Acura, not BMW) has left me wary, perhaps overly so.

On the matter of the bank/acquisition fee, however it would be in the best interest of the institutions involved to be proactive in reforming their fee structure in light of the changes in liability law, retroactive to the date the law came (or comes) into effect. Continuing to charge an inflated acquisition fee on the basis of offsetting a liability that no longer exists could well leave the same institutions exposed to class actions.

davidd3

Let's hope that BMWFS get their act together on this and do the right thing by their customers in NY. Otherwise, you and I could be the class representatives in the class action. Maybe they would settle the case by giving everyone free mats!

adp3

David: All-season tires are not snow tires. When they say "all-seaoin" I think they mean all seasons in Los Angeles.

I don't think you need to go to "deadicated" snowies for the winter. The Nokian is an "all-season" that is also rated with the mountain/snowflake symbol - with that symbol I can get over Donner Pass (the Sierra) without snow chains when they have chain control in effect (Oh, and I have AWD, of course - I'd need chains if I only had FWD)

A "deadicated" snow tire will be lousy, noisy, harsh when you are back in the flatland, whereas an all-season with mountain/snowflake will be reasonable even when conditions are dry.

Of course, if you live wayyyy upstate, maybe you don't get many clear roads from December through March

I purchased my Nokians from someone other than Tire Rack, but they made me an equally good deal. I've used Tire Rack and they were fune, but they weren't carrying the Nokians.

http://www.nokiantires.com/newsite/index.html

Also, there is good info in these forums about snow and ice tires:

kjemison, "Snow/Ice winter tires" #404, 3 Mar 2005 4:47 pm

mcmuney

Why is it that there's a big difference between lease estimates offered by dealers vs online calculators?

I've been in contact with multiple dealers regarding a lease of a 2003 330i and most of them seem to be in line; however, using the same figures, online calculators show the monthly payment to be lower by $100 in most cases.

Do dealers including hidden costs or are the online calculators missing something? Anyone know of a realistic online calculator that I can use?

kyfdx

On-line calculators miss a lot... Sometimes they make assumptions that aren't accurate...

I use a simple Excel spreadsheet to figure leases...

timny

Let them have mats! That's how the French revolution began!

timny

Here's a good lease caluclator: http://www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm

It produced the exact same results as the dealer.

If you are paying the taxes up-front, just include that figure in the "Costs Added to Lease" column, then put in a figure of 0% in the state taxes area.

etj

I wanted to see if anyone has had good or bad experiences with carsdirect. I am torn between carsdirect who offers a higher residual (0.63 vs. 0.61 from dealer) and a lower money factor (0.0026 vs. 0.0029 from dealer) but a higher sales price of the car (2000 over invoice vs 1000 from dealer).

This is for a 2006 325i Premium, Sport, Nav, Automatic, Xenon, lease for 36 months and 15K miles/year.

Maybe I am completely off and should negotiate more from the dealer? The four dealers I have dealt with in the San Diego area have all held steady on the numbers.

I would appreciate any comments.

mcmuney

I've used the leaseguide calculator and that's where I'm seeing a $100 difference between it's calculated payment vs dealer.

kyfdx

1) Carsdirect is probably quoting the wrong residual for the mileage you requested ("Oh, you wanted 15K miles per year?"). 61% is the proper residual for the '06 325i for 3yr/45K.

2) The dealer is marking up the money factor more than the dealer that carsdirect is using... You can try to negotiate this down... the base MF is .0025

If the dealer is $1000 lower on the selling price, try to negotiate their money factor down... 61% is the right residual.. Also, watch out for the acquisition fee... base fee is $625.. many dealers will mark it up the maximum.. to $825.

I hear LA dealers are more aggressive on price than San Diego..

regards,
kyfdx

blueguydotcom

etj, which dealers? Cunningham is often willing to move on price. Brecht, San Diego BMW and that one in Escondido tend to think they're too good to deal.

etj

blueguy, Cunningham has done the best for me, they are at 1000 above invoice. I think that I am going to work with them to negotiate the money factor as much as I can. San Diego really gave me the impression that they are doing me a favor by even talking to me about the car. Brecht didn't want to move at all on the money factor of 29 and are close to 2000 above. Harloff stayed at about 1500 above invoice.

Thanks for the tip on acq fee kyfdx, I thought the 825 was standard. What other fees should I be aware of that are not included in the car? The only car charge that I know about is the destination charge. Outside the car charge I only know that they will add the licensing and the acquisition. Is a documentation fee legit?

Thanks for all the help.

kyfdx

I think doc fees are restricted to under $100 in CA? Anything like dealer prep, dealer fees, pre-delivery inspection, etc. are pure fluff, and should be considered part of the price of the car...

I think the state of CA has a tire fee, and maybe a couple of other small (under $30) fees that are required.... registration/title, etc..

That is it.... don't put any money down... Your cap cost should be the selling price + acquisition fee... Your "due at signing" should be your 1st payment (including tax), security deposit (rounded up to next $50 increment) and your license/title/registration/tire fees (generally around $300-$400 in CA)...

regards,
kyfdx

blueguydotcom

etj,

I went with Cunningham and pointed friends and family there too. They've always dealt squarely with me. I did have to push on the MF though. See if they'll do a costco $400 over price (they used to do this but I'm not sure if they still do).

At the time I bought they didn't have MACO fees but I know an employee there now and he contends MACO is now added on too. Bummer. Every other BMW dealer in town did MACO.

etj

Thanks for the info...I will probably talk to the guy this afternoon to make sure that the fees are in the ballpark and negotiate the money factor.

Have you heard of anyone who bought their car through carsdirect?

etj

blueguy,

Do you think that I will be able to negotiate the MF? I'll mention the costco deal and see what I get.

I know this is probably a stupid question, but what is MACO?

blueguydotcom

I talked them off a few points and bought off more points with MSDs.

MACO is an advertising fee that dealers add at the end of a deal in a backdoor way.. IMHO, it's the height of arrogance to negotiate a price and then when the buyer finalizes to tack on an extra fee that's the cost of doing business.

Can you imagine how we'd react when buying a stereo at Best Buy and as you check out they say, "There's a $5 advertising fee we add to all large purchases."? Uh, then charge more for that car/stereo.