Ford Ranger vs Toyota Tacoma
midnight_stang
Member Posts: 862
in Ford
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Rule 2: If you are questioning a statement someone else made, make sure you understand it first. The is no such thing as a stupid question, especially if we bring clarity to our discussion. If what others are saying still does not make sense to you: Verify their statement first, debate it second.
Rule 3: Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Be aware that every truck enthusiast is likely to have their own opinion. Exercise your right to being a grown up, and understand people will disagree.
Rule 4: Show respect to others, they may just return the favor. Try not to challenge others, as this causes a breakdown and eventually another forum to be locked.
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Comments
So we shall see what turns up as the best deal. The most truck for the least amount of money. I want a nice looking truck, with a good amount of features, plenty of power, a comfortable ride, and also somewhat economical in gas mileage and upkeep. Oh yeah, I don't give one hoot on off roading ability. Only time will tell what truck is the best for me...
Lariat, it mostly boiled down to an argument that was quite misunderstood and misrepresented. But I do believe the answer lies in the proof, of which proof was never provided, only insinuated by those who always seem to be the last one to post before one of these forums gets locked. They know who they are...
>>I'm sorry, but that contradicts everything the Ranger crowd has been saying all along. Time and again, we've been told that the key to the Ranger's superiority is its displacement advantage over the Tacoma. Because, after all, "there's no replacement for displacement" and big cubes make big torque.
If that's the case, how can a small V6, no matter what its performance specs, replace a larger V8?
That's hard to believe being that you own a truck with a large V8 yourself.
There is no substitute for cubic inches, if what you want is Torque. Currently the leader in that category is the Dakota, or keeping within the scope of this forum, the Ranger has the most torque and the most horsepower. It appears in 2004 the Tacoma will be able to offer a new engine that will earn this accolade.
But if all you want is a little more zoom to your daily commute, then a V6 is perfectly fine, and much more economical than a V8.
Lariat My brother has a 2001 B4000. He paid about $2000 less than I paid for my 2000 TuRD ! Thats in the Montery Bay area in Cali. The Mazda is a really nice truck.We go fishing/camping in the Sierra alot. The B4000 has gone everywhere we've ever asked it.
looks like pluto got another one locked up. sure would be nice if he would take his crap to another forum and spread it around.
anyways, im offering him a challenge that i know will go unheeded just like every other challenge ive offered him.
pluto- SHOW ME WHERE I SAID THAT MY V6 IS BETTER BALANCED THAN ANY V8. I WANT POST #'S AND QUOTES.
if you can do that, people will start respecting you around here. but until then, i hate to say it, but most everyone will consider you a liar and a fake, just as scorpio even did in the last forum. that was funny. even he saw through you bud.
another thing- either way, balanced or unbalanced, my little 3.7 still makes more power and torque than your puny 3.4. cubic inches don't matter if the engine is good enough to produce horsepower and torque numbers higher than even the larger engines it's up against. take the SOHC 4.0- it is an awesome engine. it makes a lot more torque than your little 3.4 as it should. but the 3.7 isn't that much larger than your 3.4, and it makes A LOT more power and torque than your 3.4 and more power and nearly as much torque as the SOHC 4.0. so this cubic inch thing you bring up is just another subject you clearly don't understand.
either way, im sure you'll take my words out of context and use them to your advantage. but if you do, make sure you give me credit mr. plagiarizer
or my power steering pump ever failing. or mailing other ranger owner's foam to put in their dashes because they rattle so bad that only home improvement warehouses are the solution. and how about this post from a tacoma owner, PLUTO- you may enjoy this one in particular.
569 of 577 Unbalanced 3.4 & "Clunk" by koko164 Sep 26, 2002 (07:29 pm)
Anyone else notice their 3.4 gets kinda rough
and loud around 2,800 to 3,200 rpm? Mine does
and I'll say I'm a little surprized by this
because my 3.0 in my Sienna is silky smooth from
idle to 5,000 rpm.
And on the axle wrap or whatever.. I notice that
if I throw my automatic into neutral just before
I come to a complete stop the "clunk" is completely
gone! Wouldn't the springs still wrap under braking
or is the tension relieved from being in neutral?
maybe those sludgy 3.0 engines are better than that "rough and clunky" 3.4.
my 3.7 is butter smooth- not to mention it has 210 horsies and 235 lb/ft of torque.
after perusing the tacoma problems board, these are the issues. oh, let's not forget those wonderful tokico shocks on the DC. brilliant toyota.
seems like the tacoma has some major problems. seat belts that aren't even tight after latched. leaky interiors, bad drivetrain characteristics, and now, obviously needed is a better balanced V6- eh plutonium? lmao
what happened to that toyota quality?
My 3.4L does get louder around 4K rpms, but I'm fine with that, I'm not driving around in a van, it's a truck, for Christs' sake.
Maybe those sludged 3.0L aren't better.
Tohico shocks: well, lets see. You got extra 500 lbs of DoubleCab, putting stiffer shocks sounds like a sensible solution without having to revamp the suspension.
Again, your conclusion is wrong: Tacoma does not have some major problems. For every problem you post on the board, there's 10 trucks without that problem. Leaky interiors? Says who? When it rains in TX, it pours, and I am still to notice any water in my cab. Nra, OTOH, was not so lucky with (according to you) his suppositively leak-proof Ranger.
Problems happen. Why do you beat on the old issue of fender flares? It was fixed in 2002, 2002s don't have that problem anymore. Does that mean we can go back to teasing Ford for exploding rear diffs, repeated (I think this is 3rd year in a row) recalls for heater core failures, rattling timing chains, squeaking tailgates, leaking axle vents, etc? What happened to Ford quality? Since there are guys here who swear by their Rangers with 70K miles.....there's no way this all could be happening, is there? Not according to Billy Ford!
Btw: what seat belt issue?
That's the difference between Toyota and Ford - Toyota is noted for quality, Ford advertises it.
What you are really saying is that it's taken the competition a decade to get a larger displacement engine to outperform Toyota's tried and proven 3.4.
I predict history will repeat itself when Toyota unleases their new 4.0. Your puny inferior 90 degree V6 with its power-robbing counter-rotating balance shaft and wimpy SINGLE over-head cam design will be TRAMPLED by the Toyota's much bigger 4.0 with its DUAL over-head cams.
BTW, according to http://www.alldata.com/TSB/04/020441F1.html
your Liberty with its "Mercedes-like" built quality already has 26 TSBs.
My Favorite?
" 24-012-01 SEP 01 Evaporator Drain Tube - Water Leaks Onto Passenger Floor"
Pretty hilarious, considering one of your biggest beefs with the Tacoma is its (according to you) leaky interior, don't you think?
For Comparison, a 4WD V6 Tacoma Ex-Cab has 15 TSBs, only 2 of which outline problems (which didn't include leaks, LOL).
OH, the irony of it all!
And the more TSB's the better. In the event of a problem, I would rather the dealership know how to deal with my vehicle, than be out in the dark.
1. #501, Lemon (which happens to all) Ranger: AC problems, does not start sporadically, with 20K miles.
2. One of my favorites: 3 week old Ranger melts CDs (along with Check Gage light). Hmm.....what was that about 6-CD changer? A new feature from Ford "We now can melt 6 CDs at the same time!".
3. Driveshaft problems: not only they had to replace it once, but seems like twice! Takes 2 times to get the job done right. Msg. 512.
4. 2001 Ranger Edge: drivers side mirror falling off.
This was just out of last 23 messages.
So, tbunder, you see.......while it seems Tacoma has just a small set of problems (which you quote every time, even if they got fixed in a previous year), Ranger problems seem to span the whole spectrum from interior to drivetrain. Point of all this: it happens. Toyota has its problems, Ford has its problems. Toyota seems to have less of them.
1. Squaking parking brakes.
2. Long crank times on the engine.
3. Flip-up glass latch malfunction.
4. Evaporating water tube: water leaking onto the floor.
5. Rust on center caps.
6. Leaking flip-up cover.
7. Creaking from front end.
8. Rattling exaust.
According to tbunders' links, Liberty production line stops if they detect a single problem. Looks like more than few got through. I doubt Mercedes builds their vehicles like this, their TSB list is very short.
>>I'm truly astounded. Whatever additional friction and resistance is created by the second cam is more than overcome by the extra power 4 valves per cylinder provides. Furthermore, a counter-rotating balance shaft does nothing to increase power-output.
You seem to think that two overhead cams and 2 heads are a bad thing. Obviously, the automotive engineers don't share your views because their creations aren't limited to SOHC inline six or inline four engines. In fact, the vast majority of high-output engines don't use that kind of architecure.
While BMW is still one of the few manufacturers who build high-performance inline six engines, their designs employ DOHC technology, as do Honda's inline fours.
A balance shaft reduces vibration in the dreaded 90 degree v6. With the vibration lessened, the engine can then make much higher RPM, and thus, more power.
If you are truly concerned about parasitic drag off the crank, you can easily replace most water pumps with an electric pump.
Finally, I never said having 2 heads was a bad thing. I also do not view two overhead cams as evil either. I do realize that they are two different ways of doing the same thing. Building an engine. Both have benefits and disadvantages.
Both have peak outputs of 190 HP and 220 Torque.
However the Ford 3.8l produces it's 220 ft/lbs at 2750 RPM, vs Tacoma's 3600 RPM. The SOHC 3.8l produces lower end torque. The trade off is that the 3.4l can produce it's peak HP at 4800 RPM, thanks to it's combination of intake plennums and 4 valve intake. Still 4800 RPM is fairly high, but the SOHC 3.8L has to spin up even faster to 5250 RPM to achieve the same peak horsepower.
Let's get realistic, shall we?
Toyota's new DOHC 4 valve 4.0:
245 horsepower at 5,200 rpm
283 pound-feet of torque at 3,400 rpm.
Fords new SOHC 2 valve 4.0:
207 horsepower @ 5250 rpm
238 lb.-ft. of torque @ 3000 rpm
Toyota's 4.7 DOHC V8 produces more torque at a lower RPM that either the Chevy 4.8 or Ford 4.6. (don't remember the exact figures).
"in a truck application 4 vavles hurt low end performance. 4 Valve heads can only help high end output..."
With all due respect, midnight_caballo, but the figures prove otherwise. And your examples of Vipers, Corvettes and Lightnings using high-output non DOHC engines was poorly chosen. These rely on displacement more than anything to produce power. The Viper's V10 especially is a real dog when you consider its HP to displacement ratio.
the seat belt problems, the driveline problems, the rattling dash problems, the leaky interior problems, and rough and loud engine characteristics are all current issues being discussed on the tacoma problems board. you just won't acknowledge that these exist because you don't think anyone else peruses other boards. but we all know that isn't true since you post daily in the liberty forums. the funny thing is that you almost bought a rodeo or something like that. that explains a lot. and no, 2002 didn't fix the flares that keep falling off tacomas as one owner told you personally i believe.
pluto- if toyota is known for quality- why weren't the owners in the tacoma problems convinced? lmao.
please read the forum before you make embarrassing statements like that. ill say it again, my flares never fell off and i know my power steering pump didn't give. let's not forget those quality built sludgy engines that are even smoother than the supposedly perfectly balanced underpowered 3.4.
pluto- excuses, excuses, excuses. the SOHC actually is only a year younger than your wimpy 3.4. it came out in '96, while the 3.4 i believe was available in '95. why is it that you and scorpio always want to live in the future? maybe because the current offering of tacoma just can't cut it against the competition? obviously.
So what do you say about your Liberty having that leaking interior problem you so vehemently criticized the Tacoma for?
Engine sludge? 3 thousand out of 3 MILLION engines were affected. That's a defect rate of 0.1%, a problem so small had it been Ford, they would have never even noticed.
Stay tuned, folks, for more blah blah blah.
stang (or as you should call him- Socrates) compared the 3.4 to the 3.8 ford simply because they make the same power figures in totally different configurations (i know it's hard for you to comprehend). this new 4.0 sounds good from toyota, but why brag about it when it isn't even available? let's talk about the current trucks ok? plus, if the next tacoma looks anything like the new forerunner, i can see sales declining rapidly. can you say fugly?
the tsb's on the jeep- these are for very early built liberty's. i haven't experienced any of these problems. just one bad fuel pump.
the manufacturing techniques of liberty are somewhat related to infinity (and the new nissan altima) and mercedes-benz, not the parts that go into them. if that were the case, the liberty wouldn't be $17000.
lmao
You see, there's this little thing called RESEARCH, DEVELOPMENT AND TESTING. Ford and Jeep don't believe in it. That's why they have zillions of TSBs, recalls, class-action lawsuits, etc.
Congratulations, **TBUNDY** you have become the unknowing and unwilling participant of Jeep's field testing division - at your own expense.
http://www.jjournal.net/jeep/features/Liberty/tour.html
im beginning to think he's a comedian.
this site about sums up what we all know, and what toyota is really about. these people really "got the feeling". the vehicles do "look" good though.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_safety.html
"You are comparing [Toyota]'s most recent engine offerings to [Ford's 4.0], a design that's going on a decade old now.
What you are really saying is that it's taken the competition a decade to get a[n...] engine to outperform [Ford]'s tried and proven [4.0]"
So you're comparing a engine not available to the Tacoma in a year or so, with one Ford has had out for close to a decade? Two things for certain, the Ford 4.0l has an almost perfectly flat torque curve, and the Toyota does not. However the Toyota engine does show much more power available. The difference is not DOHC vs SOHC, but about 8-10 years of new technology.
I guess if Ford releases a new engine, you'll say it's unfair to compare it to the older Yota 4.0l. Next let's compare the Toyota 4.7l to a flathead v8!
In some situations I would pick the Toyota 4.7l over a 4.6l, say in a full size truck. The problem here is that Ford offers a 5.4L which I will EASILY and Definitely take over Yota's 4.7l. Toyota says 4.7l is all I'll ever want? What about the 6.8l V10? Toyota Can't compete.
Are you also telling me that vehicles built with enthusiast packages such as the Z06, Lightning, and any Viper didn't want to spare the expense of a 2 extra cams and a different casting of heads? These vehicles cost 32, 51, or even up to 80 thousand dollars, and my point is that 4 valves aren't the answer to everything.
"The Viper's V10 especially is a real dog when you consider its HP to displacement ratio."
Tell that to someone who owns a viper and let me know if they care.
At >500hp and >500lb-ft of torque I think the power/displacement ratio is a mute point. What really matters is the fact that unless someone pulls up next to you with a Ferrari they will see nothing but tail lights from you.
im beginning to think he's a comedian.
this site about sums up what we all know, and what toyota is really about. these people really "got the feeling". the vehicles do "look" good though.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_safety.html
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/ford_airbags.html
Well, lets put it this way: I have not experienced a single problem as described by you. Seatbelt problem (This is a second time I ask...what is it? Is it that seatbelt TSB from 2001 that you automatically made up into a problem, while it was some sort of improvement to a model working perfectly fine?), drivetrain (what problem? As far as I'm concerned, it's Ranger that's having drivetrain problems with driveshaft replacements....and in some cases, 2 of them) axle wrap (which I take for normal), rattling dash (I'll believe that some people experience it. Again, my Taco does not have it), leaky interior (can you say Ford Ranger? Once again, I don't have any of those problems).....those are all problems experienced by some people. Some are valid problems like 2001 fenders: yes, there was a guy who posted it about 2002 Tacoma, but that's by far the only 2002 owner. Some problems are made up by you to make you feel good.
All the links you post about Liberty being built on lines with Benz standards: so......why is it that early Liberties are so bad? Did DC just adopt Benz practices in the middle of a production? Seeing how a story describes line halts in case of any problems, it sure makes me wonder how all those problems got through.
The way I see it, Jeep did this: "Release first, finish later, let our customers be our beta customers", which is something I think Ford has as an internal motto.
And yes, I almost bought an Isuzu Amigo. I could not find one in a combination I wanted. I really wanted something fast and fun to drive, but after not finding anything in a small SUV market I turned to trucks.
Can anyone say "poozer"?
I believe you need to re check the first post in this forum, and especially pay attention to #3 and #4. The Rules for a civilized discussion
Please don't attempt to assume the duties of a moderator here. We need an impartial and unbiased one for that.
If you keep dragging out the same old information, the same debates covered before, why bother even posting? Your first iteration should have been sufficient. By continuing the same rhetoric, your posted information is likened to spam. Even if you are just trying to stir up trouble, what's the point to trying to look good on a computer bulletin board? Not really a grand place to define your status quotient, if you ask me.
In short, move on to a new subject. Nobody cares what you think about the liberty's V6 being in 90 degree configuration, or 26 TSB's as a measure of anything. Are you sure your posts are only making valid points, and not trying to self serve or ridicule?
I also noticed you seemed to have ignored responses to you, in posts #31 through 34...
Lib is an SUV. Tacoma Xtracab is a truck. Imagine if Liberty was made without second row of seats, what then? It'd be a big flop. Xtracab is made with no second row of seats for a reason. For people who want a good capable compact pickup with 2 full rows of seats, there's Tacoma DoubleCab.
As for "try THAT with your TRD": try loading up some lumber/dirt/rocks into your Liberty. It won't work very well.
You posted copyright materials in said post.
I suggest you remove that post ASAP.
Let's all take a deep breath, stand back and watch the "all-knowing" midnight_stang redirect his copyright babble upon himself.
The only thing restricted on that site is the guys name of the board. ("®") which I did not copy. Instead of just saying, here's a picture midnight_stang used in a post once, why not show us all the proof that the author of the site does not allow it?
But the site Pluto/Houdini used has a policy, and it is quite strict:
http://autozine.kyul.net/Comment.htm
Finally, I am not a self appointed moderator, but I am trying to keep the peace. I have never received a repremand of any sort for any of my actions here at Edmunds. However I do see that some people here have intentions to provoke, belittle, and humiliate others, and my attempts are to prevent that from reoccuring.
Of course, we both know you have a history of selectively deleting posts that go against Town Hall agreements, don't we?
Actions speak louder than words.
Kinda funny how Houdini asks a question, I respond, and then you respond to me.
Now are you ready to talk about trucks, or do you want to dance some more?