Well, No question that BG makes good products. Understand that when I say that, they make lubes, injection cleaners and such. As good as I think BG's products are, I still stand by my statement that the only proper way to flush an engine is to flush and THEN drop the pan and clean it out. All the crud has to go somewhere. Usually the pan. I stay away from engine oil additives. The only additives I ever use in engines is an oil dye. Only to locate leaks.
As for LubeGard, I won't comment on their products. I don't use their products.
and see what is in the engine. might be fun to put it in a washtub, spray down each major piece after inspection with some of our fine mentioned items and see what is left in the bottom of the washtub after you fetch out the last big chunk of iron.
and also nice to see if it's any cleaner yet after you cook it out in a tank of solvent.
I'm buying a rotating assembly, so the big parts won't be reused; I'm putting on assembled aluminum heads, so no reuse there; and Ford Racing sells SVO Cobra 5.0 blocks - new - for $299.00.
Of course, it'll take a while to get all the grunge off the steering rack, p/s spump, k-frame, etc. I'm thinking of sandblasting with big rocks.
several (10-12) old toothbrushes. I tried to explain to her that when I start doing the engine compartment, suspension and subframe detailing, I'll have to use her toothbrush if I throw the others out. She didn't see the humor.
I'll end up pulling everything (that's attached) out of the engine compartment, taking the brake lines and suspension mounts loose, and several other things to clean up the car before painting. You only get one chance to "properly" detail the engine compartment - unless you blow your engine frequently.
as an engine flush for about 300 miles. The car has about 230k on it, the engine, who knows? My guess is about 100k. One thing about having an old beater or 2, it gives you quite a laboratory to work out of.
I wouldn't have believed it but the stuff really works. In many cases, if compression is low or uneven, a pint of Rislone additive in the oil will somehow disolve the carbon causing the problem.
Yep, I've only had good experiences with Rislone in some tired cars that I bought and sold. I think it does more dissolving than loosening, but that's just from seeing what came out in the oil change.
here's my brief: carbonized oil can keep the rings from moving freely in the piston groves. The solvents free the rings so that they can seat against the cylinder walls better. Even though the oil ring should be just that, it commonly gums up and on an old engine it does aid in compression.
Rislone-- I have not used it in many years, but in my own "beater" days I used it repeatedly. I had sort of forgotten about that product, but I would have to allow that it would be the perfect solution to the "question" posed by this thread. I would sincerely recommend the use of Rislone instead of automatic transmission fluid to my friends who are determined to use something to clean the innards of their "closed" engines.
I would have thought there would have been at leat three posts that actually commented on whether transmission fluid did clean the engine regardless of the consequences. Here are my observations in one case.
89 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L I6 had a clogged PVC port. No crankcase ventilation, oil extreamly thick, air filter clogging with oil, valve cover heavily sludged and leaking oil due to partially blocked passages. Removed oil filter, cut it open and found 1/4 of element coated with crystaline black sludge that looked like minature coal. Replaced filter (not oil) remove valve cover, cut open blocked CCV gromit, cleaned head/valve cover area with brush and Mercon fluid, allowing about 3/4 quart of fluid with sediment to flow into the pan. Vehicle was then driven about 150 miles over a period of a week. Oil was drained through a fine mesh with barely anything showing up. New oil was added (same filter) and driven for about 500 miles over several weeks. Oil again drained through a filter screen with next to nothing visable. Oil filter was then opened and none of these crysteline deposits were evident. New oil now stays quite clean for a thousand miles and no problem after a year. I at leat find this interesting.
But that's my problem---oil rings aren't compression rings. I have worked on many engines that burned oil like crazy and had very good compression -- Volvos are particulary good at this.
I don't see how Rislone can affect compression unless somehow it could bathe the compression rings---which would indicate a severly worn engine that would allow that much fliud up there--so worn that nothing in a can is gonna fix it.
So the theory is that the rings are somehow "stuck" and that Rislone "frees" them up?
Hmmm....
i could maybe buy Rislone being able to free up oil rings a bit and decrease oil burning, or maybe giving better oil flow in a clogged block and therefore lowering the engine's operating temperature a bit.
Also possibly freeing up a stuck hydraulic lifter.
There are probably better handcleaners out there. Recent research suggests that regular contact with petroleum products may lead to cancer. Sobering news for gearheads. I still have grease under my fingernails that goes back to 1970.
Orange oil. Yep, the stuff is "magic." My preferred source for hand cleaner is Permatex Fast Orange. An excellent way to reduce your eventual need for sanitizing your mitts is to use ample volumes of skin cream such as Eucerin or even Jergens or Lubriderm. This fills the pores and otherwise fills the space that the automotive grease would otherwise occupy. Anyone care to comment on using ATF as a lube for air tools, e.g., impact wrenches?
Wow, talking about getting way off the topic. Yes, trans fluid will clean in the engine. No, it is not a good idea. Marvel Mystery Oil used to be the chemical of choice to de-sludge engines, but I wouldn't use it either.
Off topic, about the hand cleaners. The only thing I have found to take the black from diesels off my hands is GoJo's Ultra Gold hand cleaner.
...for cleaning out buildup in the combustion chamber, is to drip water down the carb. Best way to do it is with a spray bottle that sprays a fine mist.
I did this with my '79 Newport, and it cleaned it out somewhat. I also did it with my grandma's '85 LeSabre, right before it had to go through the emissions test. I also dumped some stuff in the gas tank that said it would improve emissions results. I don't know if it helped any, but that car ended up passing with numbers so good, that it would've even passed by the newer 2000 standards my Intrepid had to go through.
Speaking of Marvel Mystery oil, I did dump some of that in the crankcase of my '79 New Yorker, just to see if it would do anything. Can that stuff do any harm?
The only thing I've ever heard of with ATF is that with older cars, dump some in the crankcase and run it for awhile just before you change the oil. I've never tried it.
Years ago put some Rislone in an old Oldsmobile - was making a lot of racket and did not notice a bit of difference except more gunk came out in the oil on the next change. Somebody said Rislone was almost all kerosene with some additives to hide the kerosene smell.
My fav was Casite-have not seen it in years-pour it through the carb while running and you could smoke out a whole neighborhood.
Saw some Sea Foam in a parts store a few days ago-had not seen that stuff in years either.
A couple of years ago somebody on this site posted some info about an oil additive whose name started with Lubripl something and the guy touting the stuff said it reduced friction so much the engines ran cold and people complained about their heaters not working. Now I really enjoyed that guy's attempt at selling snake oil. Wonder if he ever tried politics-probably do very well.
I need to get into this racket. Maybe a product based on yak butter. That stuff is very slippery you know.
Shiftright's Yak-Tach will improve fuel economy up to 12%, quiet noisy engines, diminish smoke and aid in emissions testing. Independent laboratory testing available on request (attn: Shiftright Independent Laboratories, P.O. Box 199, Norbutt, OK. )
They made a mixture of 50% peanut oil and 50% vinegar. They added one quart of this to a tank of gas and ran it for 50 miles. They said it ran terrible for those first 50 miles and then it would run as good as new having cleaned everything out. After those 50 miles, anything would seem great. If nothing else, this mixture should cure you from taking advice from a message board. Any takers?
opera, I am still trying to figure out the peanut oil. LOL! 1 quart of anything mixed in 15 gallons of gasoline isn't going to amount to much. Concentrated injector cleaner, maybe. Octane boost, ok, I'll accept that. But you're talking, at best, a 60:1 mixture.
I wouldn't mind the peanut oil, but pouring in acetic acid that is mostly water as household vinegar is what threw me. I have poured tranny fluid in the oil of every car that I have ever owned. I also heard recently someone who claims to put one capful of brake fluid in with the new oil. That was a new one for me. Let's all be Mr. Wizzard. What's next, Liquid Draino?
and don't forget a dash of oregano and a pinch of salt---LOL.
I like that--- "one cap" of brake fluid....not 2, not 4, not 1/2 a cap.
you know, you can do 100 laboratory tests that show that additives of any kind don't do diddley for prolonging engine life, send everyone at Slick 50 to prison in chains, break down additives chemically to show them as a mixture of Windex and plant growth hormone--- but there will still be the faithful who will not except the scientific facts.
Additives are only partly about science--there is also a tinge of faith/belief in there, which cannot be shaken in some folks. Sometimes it's even folklore passed down from father to son. Powerful stuff in its own way.
I will agree, though, that many additives are totally harmless, and that a few actually do some good things. I've seen it happen.
What I cannot accept, having seen zero proof that holds up to scrutiny, that any of this stuff prolongs engine life one mile past just doing regular maintenance "religiously" (if I may dare to use the word in this context).
I have heard arguments that additives can "fix" a problem and thereby prolong engine life, such as flushing out an engine, but this also runs counter to my own experience when I worked on cars, as I found any number of flilthy gunked up engines running just fun past 100K. Slant Sixes were famous for this.
One time, I took the valve cover off a puking, smoking slant six and the interior of the valve cover contained a BLOCK of gunk that looked like a plaster of paris mold of the rocker arms. It fell out of the valve cover soundling like spam sliding out of a can! ("sploosh"?)
That car might still be running. I just changed the oil and filter about 3 times in quick succession and sent the car on its way. I would not have DARED to flush it.
Of course, an EXTREME of gunk will destroy and engine by blocking off lubrication. But anything that gunked up has to be disassembled. You can clean an engine that badly gunked by just flushing it.
I've got to vote approval for ZDDP and MOLY oil additives. They are actually additive package quality entities. You can get extra MOLY and ZDDP in several products, like STP and its lower priced "competitor" from Walmart under the Supertech label, etc.
Ok, since you brought up Moly additives, my turn to chime in about PTFE additives. Now, according to NASA's own scientists, teflon requires a special primer process for the teflon to adhere to anything, yet there are claims that these additives, that contain Teflon, the teflon will embed itself to the cylinder wall and create a non friction barrier. So, who do you believe? The manufacturer's claims or the scientist who discovered the properties of teflon and worked years to find a way to get it to adhere to anything?
I believe the DuPont spokesman who stated a few years ago that their product, Teflon, could not perform as represented by oil additive company advertisements and that there were no advantages to adding it to an internal combustion engine crankcase.
with 180K on my engine, it runs good, but a little rough and I'm replacing it in late Spring. Any suggestions, other than the religious oil changes I'm doing, to give some insurance of making it through March?
Talking about peanut oil - I know for a fact that castor oil is a VERY good lubricant. In my youth when I raced motorcycles we used Castrol R which was derived from castor oil. We mixed it with ethanol which we used in our high compression 2 stroke engines. Mineral oil does not mix with ethanol. Mineral oil sinks like water to the bottom of the stuff. I have an idea that the name Castrol is derived from the words castor oil.
Darn it, I miss the smell of burning ethanol and castor oil - sigh............
There's no carpool necessary. I work out of my house and the lawfirm I consult for is a block away. I carry 6-8 files back and forth, so no need to unpark the car. The car is an evening and weekend thing, but we go lots of places and my mileage is normal for someone that does commute.
OK, I'll just change the oil. I really wanted to buy some whiz-bang top secret go go juice to put in my engine. I guess I'll just have to get a different flavor of Christmas tree air freshener.
Well, I could always formulate some stuff up and let you try it out. LOL!! Let's see, peanut oil, castor oil, vinegar. Hmmmm. Oh, gonna have to add some lindseed oil, maybe a little greasy kid's stuff {slippery stuff, right?], how about a little floor wax in there for added "slipperiness". We'll mix it all up and have one dandy product. HA HA HA!!
The scary thing is, I'd bet people would buy it and swear by it.
that's the tan colored stuff we used in the military that went onto the floor and the we used a buffer. That stuff was nearly impossible to get off your hands - it was so slick, yet sticky - it HAS to be good for engine lubrication.
are we into engine additives here or chocolate chip cookies? I'm gonna squeeze the doughboy into my oil spout and see if my car giggles when I kick its doors on the side of the road
SERIOUSLY, folks, what I look for is recommendations by the service department of my car maker and/or standard industry seal, like the API circle. if it isn't there, it's kinda like fishing lures... they may or may not kill you, but most end up catching fishermen, not fish.
If one were to add an additive to flush the oil, the consensus would be to add it just before an oil change when the oil allready nasty. This is probably the worst time to add a cleaner. The oil has probably sheared down to a much lower weight and a lot of the anti wear additives have been used up. If you want to use an additive to clean the engine, do an oil change first, drive for 500 miles and then add your flush. The new oil will clean up as much as it can and the fairly new oil will not thin out as much with the flush. If you are serious, the extra $6 for a Walmart oil and filter is a good investment.
if you've got a plugged filter and the oil looks like tar and smells like a fuel filter, it's already overloaded and can't dissolve any more goop. fresh oil and filter provides not only a place to trap some of the slime that will dissolve out of mystery engine corners, but also fresh detergent to bind some of it, and all the lubricity additives are working and fresh, in case the amount of REAL oil gets a little thin across a few bearings.
Hey you want to be different-add some Canola Oil-if u don't know Canola is short for Canadian Oil-cause it used to be called rape seed oil-it is made from rape seed and somebody came up with Canola as it was commonly referred to Canadian Oil in Canada as they grow lots of rape in Canada.
Comments
No question that BG makes good products. Understand that when I say that, they make lubes, injection cleaners and such.
As good as I think BG's products are, I still stand by my statement that the only proper way to flush an engine is to flush and THEN drop the pan and clean it out. All the crud has to go somewhere. Usually the pan.
I stay away from engine oil additives.
The only additives I ever use in engines is an oil dye. Only to locate leaks.
As for LubeGard, I won't comment on their products. I don't use their products.
and also nice to see if it's any cleaner yet after you cook it out in a tank of solvent.
if you're in the experimenting mood, that is.
Of course, it'll take a while to get all the grunge off the steering rack, p/s spump, k-frame, etc. I'm thinking of sandblasting with big rocks.
bonus points if it's your toothbrush. minus points if it's the wife's. angel's wings if you use gasoline and have been living right.
I'll end up pulling everything (that's attached) out of the engine compartment, taking the brake lines and suspension mounts loose, and several other things to clean up the car before painting. You only get one chance to "properly" detail the engine compartment - unless you blow your engine frequently.
Except in the case of Rislone.
I wouldn't have believed it but the stuff really works. In many cases, if compression is low or uneven, a pint of Rislone additive in the oil will somehow disolve the carbon causing the problem.
I'm not so afraid of using flushes as I am of people not using them properly.
As for Rislone, I guess I need an education as to how a solvent added to oil can raise compression in an old engine. Any volunteers?
carbonized oil can keep the rings from moving freely in the piston groves. The solvents free the rings so that they can seat against the cylinder walls better. Even though the oil ring should be just that, it commonly gums up and on an old engine it does aid in compression.
89 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L I6 had a clogged PVC port. No crankcase ventilation, oil extreamly thick, air filter clogging with oil, valve cover heavily sludged and leaking oil due to partially blocked passages. Removed oil filter, cut it open and found 1/4 of element coated with crystaline black sludge that looked like minature coal. Replaced filter (not oil) remove valve cover, cut open blocked CCV gromit, cleaned head/valve cover area with brush and Mercon fluid, allowing about 3/4 quart of fluid with sediment to flow into the pan. Vehicle was then driven about 150 miles over a period of a week. Oil was drained through a fine mesh with barely anything showing up. New oil was added (same filter) and driven for about 500 miles over several weeks. Oil again drained through a filter screen with next to nothing visable. Oil filter was then opened and none of these crysteline deposits were evident. New oil now stays quite clean for a thousand miles and no problem after a year. I at leat find this interesting.
I don't see how Rislone can affect compression unless somehow it could bathe the compression rings---which would indicate a severly worn engine that would allow that much fliud up there--so worn that nothing in a can is gonna fix it.
So the theory is that the rings are somehow "stuck" and that Rislone "frees" them up?
Hmmm....
i could maybe buy Rislone being able to free up oil rings a bit and decrease oil burning, or maybe giving better oil flow in a clogged block and therefore lowering the engine's operating temperature a bit.
Also possibly freeing up a stuck hydraulic lifter.
There are probably better handcleaners out there. Recent research suggests that regular contact with petroleum products may lead to cancer. Sobering news for gearheads. I still have grease under my fingernails that goes back to 1970.
Anyone care to comment on using ATF as a lube for air tools, e.g., impact wrenches?
Yes, trans fluid will clean in the engine. No, it is not a good idea. Marvel Mystery Oil used to be the chemical of choice to de-sludge engines, but I wouldn't use it either.
Off topic, about the hand cleaners.
The only thing I have found to take the black from diesels off my hands is GoJo's Ultra Gold hand cleaner.
I did this with my '79 Newport, and it cleaned it out somewhat. I also did it with my grandma's '85 LeSabre, right before it had to go through the emissions test. I also dumped some stuff in the gas tank that said it would improve emissions results. I don't know if it helped any, but that car ended up passing with numbers so good, that it would've even passed by the newer 2000 standards my Intrepid had to go through.
Speaking of Marvel Mystery oil, I did dump some of that in the crankcase of my '79 New Yorker, just to see if it would do anything. Can that stuff do any harm?
The only thing I've ever heard of with ATF is that with older cars, dump some in the crankcase and run it for awhile just before you change the oil. I've never tried it.
My fav was Casite-have not seen it in years-pour it through the carb while running and you could smoke out a whole neighborhood.
Saw some Sea Foam in a parts store a few days ago-had not seen that stuff in years either.
A couple of years ago somebody on this site posted some info about an oil additive whose name started with Lubripl something and the guy touting the stuff said it reduced friction so much the engines ran cold and people complained about their heaters not working. Now I really enjoyed that guy's attempt at selling snake oil. Wonder if he ever tried politics-probably do very well.
Shiftright's Yak-Tach will improve fuel economy up to 12%, quiet noisy engines, diminish smoke and aid in emissions testing. Independent laboratory testing available on request (attn: Shiftright Independent Laboratories, P.O. Box 199, Norbutt, OK. )
opera,
I am still trying to figure out the peanut oil. LOL!
1 quart of anything mixed in 15 gallons of gasoline isn't going to amount to much.
Concentrated injector cleaner, maybe.
Octane boost, ok, I'll accept that. But you're talking, at best, a 60:1 mixture.
I like that--- "one cap" of brake fluid....not 2, not 4, not 1/2 a cap.
you know, you can do 100 laboratory tests that show that additives of any kind don't do diddley for prolonging engine life, send everyone at Slick 50 to prison in chains, break down additives chemically to show them as a mixture of Windex and plant growth hormone--- but there will still be the faithful who will not except the scientific facts.
Additives are only partly about science--there is also a tinge of faith/belief in there, which cannot be shaken in some folks. Sometimes it's even folklore passed down from father to son. Powerful stuff in its own way.
I will agree, though, that many additives are totally harmless, and that a few actually do some good things. I've seen it happen.
What I cannot accept, having seen zero proof that holds up to scrutiny, that any of this stuff prolongs engine life one mile past just doing regular maintenance "religiously" (if I may dare to use the word in this context).
I have heard arguments that additives can "fix" a problem and thereby prolong engine life, such as flushing out an engine, but this also runs counter to my own experience when I worked on cars, as I found any number of flilthy gunked up engines running just fun past 100K. Slant Sixes were famous for this.
One time, I took the valve cover off a puking, smoking slant six and the interior of the valve cover contained a BLOCK of gunk that looked like a plaster of paris mold of the rocker arms. It fell out of the valve cover soundling like spam sliding out of a can! ("sploosh"?)
That car might still be running. I just changed the oil and filter about 3 times in quick succession and sent the car on its way. I would not have DARED to flush it.
Of course, an EXTREME of gunk will destroy and engine by blocking off lubrication. But anything that gunked up has to be disassembled. You can clean an engine that badly gunked by just flushing it.
Now, according to NASA's own scientists, teflon requires a special primer process for the teflon to adhere to anything, yet there are claims that these additives, that contain Teflon, the teflon will embed itself to the cylinder wall and create a non friction barrier.
So, who do you believe? The manufacturer's claims or the scientist who discovered the properties of teflon and worked years to find a way to get it to adhere to anything?
Following the same oil change pattern you have been doing is probably the best you can do for the engine.
Darn it, I miss the smell of burning ethanol and castor oil - sigh............
OK, I'll just change the oil. I really wanted to buy some whiz-bang top secret go go juice to put in my engine. I guess I'll just have to get a different flavor of Christmas tree air freshener.
Let's see, peanut oil, castor oil, vinegar. Hmmmm.
Oh, gonna have to add some lindseed oil, maybe a little greasy kid's stuff {slippery stuff, right?], how about a little floor wax in there for added "slipperiness". We'll mix it all up and have one dandy product. HA HA HA!!
The scary thing is, I'd bet people would buy it and swear by it.
Zaino
SERIOUSLY, folks, what I look for is recommendations by the service department of my car maker and/or standard industry seal, like the API circle. if it isn't there, it's kinda like fishing lures... they may or may not kill you, but most end up catching fishermen, not fish.
Rape your engine with Canola OIL!!!