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Comments
Sometimes you can get by with a full size 2 WD truck with limited slip with a smaller boat. But if you tow a boat with a compact truck like mine, 4WD is a must.
Another reason why there is good demand for 4 WD trucks here in Florida is booming construction business. There is a lot of sand down here and many construction site workers simply must have 4WD trucks to get through deep sand. A 2WD truck with limited or locking differential will bog down in deep soft sand immediately and stay there until help arrives.
Dealers in Florida know that there is good demand for 4 WD vehicles here and this is why I was so irritated by the $3250 trade-in offer I got. I looked at nationwide auto trader ads for pickups like mine and most of them do not have power windows, locks, and sunroof like mine and the average asking price is about $ 7000.
Bob
As Bob as just said, the F250 is about as "truck" as you're going to get. In a full size, both the Dodge and GM versions are more pleasant and car like for a person like yourself.
The Titan appears to be much more in line of what you are looking for. If your physical stature is going to be a concern, you might consider the Dodge Dakota mid-size. With the V8 engine it is more than a capable hauler. Non-towing driving should yield you at least 15 around town, depending on your driving habits. I get around 17 MPG on mine. The Dakota is very popular with women because of the seating, ride, and handling.
But if you really think you need a full-size truck, I would advise you to stay with the Titan. Unless Nissan does this launch differently, it should promise to be an excellent product with high assembly quality.
Best regards,
Dusty
As you all probably know, the Armada is the SUV version of the Titan -- and I can say this: If the Titan is 1/2 as nice as the Armada, you're in for a real treat.
Bob
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I am trying to judge from the Armada how the Titan will stack up against the 04 F150. The F150 will have the most luxurious interior, I am convinced of that. The Titan will have more horsepower. The F150 is tried and proven, the Titan unproven, but the Titan does offer some cool techno gadgets like navigation. The area where is beats the F150 is in the amount of airbags. The Titan will have front, passenger, side, and overhead. The F150 only front and passenger. To not have side airbags was a Ford Blunder! But, I have not seen any crash tests for the new F150 or Titan. If the F150 can match up with Safety in terms of crash tests results then your decision is a no brainer. Go with one of them, because you can save about $4000-$5000, given the expected pricing and not much negotiations on the Titan off of MSRP. But, if the F150 cannot match up in terms of safety then your decision is a bit harder.
Does anyone have any data on which vehicle is safer?????
The F-150's body and chassis is all new. The 5.4 engine is new (3-valves this year). The 4.6/2-valve engine (useless in a truck this large) is pretty much a carry over as is the 4-speed tranny, but other than that, it's all new.
Speaking of engines and trannys, Ford is not even close to the Titan/Armada in terms of the all-alloy DOHC/4-valve 5.6 engine and 5-speed tranny combo.
The only area in which Ford has an edge is that it offers more models and trim levels, an 8' bed, and an optional 8200 gvw on certain models.
Judging by your post, you're more interested in safety than capability.
Bob
Whereas the Titan is completely new. Nissan is designing a Truck based on market research, not testing from an exisisting Truck, so it is a totally new Truck. Again, I am not a Ford person or Nissan person, I am just a consumer. In fact, this will be my first Truck. I am just reporting what I have seen. I am dissapointed with the Nissan Armada, as it does not live up to MSRP pricing. In terms of safety, well, that is where I have concerns about the F150, because it does not offer side airbags. But, I need to see crash test data on both trucks before making a decision. And, yes, I am more interested in safety then capability. If capabilty was the number one factor, then I would have an F150 in my driveway now, as I believe it is a tried and true truck in every manner.
Best Regards, Doug
I will agree the carry-over '04 F-150 Heritage model is tried & true. No way will you convince me the all-new F-150 is tried & true.
Bob (who has owned a tried & true '86 F-150)
Why not compare the Excursion or Explorer to the Armada?
The Armada is a stretched-out luxury Pathfinder...
Does anybody pay MSRP anymore?
The informed consumer pays invoice price. (give or take a %)
The Titan is the product of extensive research into the wants and needs of the full-size truck-buying market.
The safety features happened to pique your interest.
The large passenger cabin with rear doors that open nearly 180 degrees is another feature that will lure other buyers.
The Ford corporation has a very large investment in the success of the new F-150. If you like the F-150 because it is "cool" then buy yourself one. (And the dealer will appreciate it if you'll pay MSRP)
But wait till you see and drive the new Titan before you decide it isn't cool enough for you.
Now, back to the Titan. I too am very intrigued by this Truck. Do you or anyone else know about the rear seating?? Is it comfortable? Does it have any type of a setback angle? In other words, are people able to lean back like in an SUV or sedan, as opposed to sitting in a very unconfortable straight up position like in other crew cabs? Thanks for any info.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/pickup/163_0310_fvn/index.htm- l
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6463&sid=27- 5&n=157
We have a program at Costco that offers members the best possible price. (I believe it is invoice + a certain percentage on all vehicles)
I haven't used the service yet but spoke with one of the employees about it...
We have a program at Costco that offers members the best possible price. (I believe it is invoice + a certain percentage on all vehicles)
It's the best possible market price. If you inquire about a hot vehicle, like an Odyssey several years back, they will tell you MSRP or "it is excluded from this program".
Dealer showed me the actual invoice and offered invoice +3%. Sounded fair to me.
If you are willing to pay MSRP - I'll bet the dealers won't argue with you.
If your dealer won't go below MSRP - get a new dealer!
The auto industry made the rules as to how cars are purchased, not consumers. So, always NEGOTIATE. And, if they don't want to negotiate, WALK. I am not trying to deny a dealer a profit, they need to stay in business, which is why I am saying, I would have no problem paying 3% over invoice for a new car. But, MSRP is just sticking it to the consumer. And, sticking it to consumers who are helping a company break a new an UNTESTED product into a NEW market. Nissan has not ventured into the full size truck and SUV before. If anything, they should be giving consumers a break for giving their new products a try.
MSRP, stick that where the sun does not shine.
Bowkes, the fact of the matter is, with the internet, a consumer can negotiate with hundreds of dealers, and their will be one someone who will discount the vehicle. Yes, even a new vehicle.
Now, it should be noted, that I never said, a dealer should not make a profit. Three percent over invoice is more than fair, considering a three percent holdback is also available to the dealer. Anything more is serious price gouging. Go ahead and keep your present attitude of non-negotiation, full MSRP and watch more and more of your customers bypass you for the internet.
BTW...i guess that means you wouldnt buy a saturn, huh?
I recall many comments regarding a dealer in Nebraska who was offering deals considerably below invoice on Durangoes and Dakotas.
Several buyers who were getting the "song and dance" from their local dealers ponied up and flew to Nebraska and drove the new purchase home.
If my dealer appreciates my business, he'll play it straight with me.
Also, I have to agree with the other posters, MSRP should never be paid by a consumer. A consumer who pays MSRP is a fool or a victim, depending on how things are viewed. Bowkes, your attitude towards potential customers is why I buy all my vehicles through the internet. I won't deal with on the lot sales people anymore.
"MSRP should never be paid by a consumer. A consumer who pays MSRP is a fool or a victim, depending on how things are viewed."
have an ego problem. if you want a vehicle enough, you will pay MSRP. whether you tell anyone that you did is a different story altogether.
now, im not saying dealers wont discount for you. if they do, then more power to you. but i wont be leaving my money on the table when noone asks for it.
If you are flexible on equipment, waiting for a low mileage trade-in can be a great way to save at least 25% of the price.
By the way, a recent comment regarding people with an "underfunded checkbook," must not have been made by someone who has read the excellent book The Millionaire Next Door. Those who spend big and have no wealth are the ones most likely to pay MSRP.
Supply and Demand is the name of the game - but if you offer MSRP to informed customers, you'll end up with more supply than demand... and that form of capitalism won't pay your bills.
Offering invoice + 3% wouldn't make much sense under those conditions.
One dealership that stood out to this day was the dealer who figured that the customer would pay the price if he wanted the vehicle bad enough. Needless to say, their sales were disappointing and were losing sales to other dealers in the area selling the same brand. Even though the vehicles were of short supply, other dealers sold at less than MSRP knowing that they would get a repeat customer and make the real money on the service end.
To this day that dealership has a bad reputation and has lost manufacturer allocations because of slack sales. One truck I looked at there sat on the lot for seven months before another dealer from another state did a trade, I know this because I know the car hauler who hauled it.
I would have driven the truck off the lot had they been willing to deal, but I found a dealership that cut to the chase and I took the truck I wanted home two hours after I walked in. So those who shop around are smart, those who pay full price a ________. You fill in the blank.
one thing you have wrong, however, is the customers' satisfaction. JD Power has done study after study, and they concluded that price is near the bottom of a list of 15 things most important to people when considering which dealership to buy from. less than 5% of responses listed price as higher than #5 on their list. you may be one of them that do, but i can assure you that you are in the minority with that opinion. my happiest customers are the ones i made the biggest gross profits on. they send me more referrals, buy repeatedly more often, and send in perfect surveys by a 3 to 1 margin than those that haggle over a few hundred dollars.
Car salesmen can not continue to treat consumers like dollar signs, and treat them with no respect. At the same time consumers can not use and abuse a car salesman and his family for a couple hundred extra dollars. This is why edmunds puts out TMV numbers. That will tell you how demand and supply match up. This is just my opinion. Maybe this will settle things down.
By the way if you need a mortgage, give me a call. Im good at that....
I am always amused when sales people try to stick to MSRP. They use every excuse in the world as to why the consumer should be paying MSRP. Yet, when the tables are turned, and the consumer goes to trade his/her car in, the trade in price given to the consumer is not top dollar.
It is a fact that the internet is changing the way consumers purchase products. And, as far as the JD Powers survey, I agree with what you are saying: Consumers who paid less probably had one HELLISH experience with the salesperson, getting them to lower the price, which is another reason to bypass the on the lot salesperson, and do the dealing through the net.
And for the record, let me clarify once again, I am not saying a salesperson and a dealer should not make a profit. I enjoy striking a deal that is FAIR to both sides. But, if it is going to be a hassle, all the consumer has to do is log onto the internet and get the vehichle at the price he/she wants.
I am always amuzed when sales people try to stick to MSRP. They use every excuse in the world as to why the consumer should be paying MSRP. Yet, when the tables are turned, and the consumer goes to trade his/her car in, the trade in price given to the consumer is not top dollar.
It is a fact, that the internet is changing the way consumers purchase products. And, as far as the JD Powers survey, I agree with what you are saying: Consumers who paid less probably had one HELLISH experience with the salesperson, getting them to lower the price, which is another reason to bypass the on the lot salesperson, and do the dealing through the net. At least until on lot salespeople stop gouging consumers.
even if you go "through the internet" for your car purchase, you still have to test drive at the dealership, sign all documents on dealership premises, and take delivery FROM A CAR SALESMAN. there is no getting around this, and there never will be, due to the franchise laws. until people buy cars without a test drive, and the right of recision laws are rescinded, "internet deals" will be a misleading term.
did i say i dont negotiate on an altima? no. do people pay sticker price for them? yes. will i discount a vehicle? yes. however...
if you want to take a significant amount of money out of my pocket, you better have:
1) a good reason.
2) good negotiating skills
3) a good reason
the fact is, by asking for a discount you are asking for my money. if it is in my interest to give it to you, i will. but if you are like rivertown, and just want to make sure i dont make too much, then dont let the door hit you on the way out.
Why in the world would anyone want to deal with an onlot sales person whom does NOT want to deal, when they can buy over the net, and save thousands with the same car/truck, same warranty. I agree with BMWdoug in that I too would buy from an onlot sales people if they did not try to gouge me. But, I don't buy from onlot sales people anymore, because too many have your attitude, which is it's MSRP or the highest price the salesperson can get. So, you know what, they get nothing,I call the internet manager, and he/she gets the sale, and I get a car/truck for invoice to 3% over, never more then 3%, and that includes ANY car on the market.
the dealership you had such a "great" experience through...did you return to them for your subsequent vehicle(s)?
if you did, kudos to you, but you likely did not. no reward for the guy who bent over backwards for you the first time. no loyalty to the guy who made you so comfortable. yeah...i know your type. nothing matters as long as your price is right. there is a thing called kharma that will catch up to you one day...till then, enjoy your empty victory.
When I purchase, I intend to make an offer based on my research and ask the dealer to either accept or decline, and I'll be on my way. I'm not interested in any marathon negoiations. Just my 2 cents.
do you think i should have to work hard for a full commission deal? absolutely i should. i also think that if a buyer wants a significant discount, 15 minutes or so of negotiations should be well-worth 2 or 3 grand to you. most salespeople will negotiate till the cows come home for $100. why wouldnt you do it for a couple thousand?
"If you don't mind lost sales, keep selling at MSRP"
Huh? That's the point - the dealers will sell EVERY ONE THEY HAVE for MSRP - why discount? If that's the market value of a vehicle, like it is with a Honda S2000 or 350Z, that's what you deal with.
If a dealer gets 10 of these trucks, and every dealer around is selling them like hotcakes for MSRP, a dealer principal would have to be fresh off the crack pipe to sell one at a significant discount.
Why? People line up to get the latest and greatest RIGHT NOW instead of waiting - that's just the price you pay. Just like HDTVs when they came out, same with plasma units.
Same with the latest design in Jordan sneaks. You'll pay $150 for the newest style, but next year, they'll be on sale at Foot Action for $69.99. If I was buying them, that's when I'd buy.
hehe this is funny. I'll bet ya if you don't argue about paying MSRP on (most) cars/trucks, you wouldn't have a problem getting "full" trade-in value on your vehicle. "full" being what it is truly worth on a trade, not what you *think it's worth. Of course, if you nickel and dime the sales guy for his car/truck, what do you possibly expect when you offer up your car/truck for sale? =o)
That all falls under the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" phrase.
I understand that there are bad salespeople out there, but like every other profession, there are usually many more good than bad.