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Comments
first of all, the king cab version of the tundra is no bigger in the back seat than the tacoma. im 5'3" and had trouble in the backseat. rode in the backseat of a titan right after, and felt like i could stretch out!
crew cab vs. double cab: the seats are all very comfortable, and the tundra is definitely bigger than its king cab version, but STILL smaller than the titan in all dimensions. also, they kept the anemic engine from the small tundra for the large one...not too smart.
the truck functions arent even close either...the titan has fully boxed frame rails compared to the tundra's hundred year old c-channel frame rails.
and to rebut a post from a few days ago about the pile of gravel...
they PURPOSEFULLY got the titan stuck up to the transfer case in 2WD. then engaged 4WD and got out like the gravel was never there...it was designed to demonstrate why it doesnt have LSD. it uses the ABS/EBD/BA to do the same job as the LSD. it didnt get out any better than the ford or the dodge, but they wanted to demonstrate thet it wasnt any better or worse...just different.
the 2 biggest things i learned were these:
1) more lives have been saved with VDC than with airbags. that blew my mind.
2) the utilitrak bed system on the titan is one of those features where you say to yourself: "how did we ever get along without it?!?!"
Problem is I don't want the ride to be too stiff and bouncy and I am not going to have a chance to test drive before I buy/order. The chance of any dealers up here getting more than one or two Titans is pretty slim.
Has anybody driven a Titan with the package and without? If so, how do the rides compare?
Thanks!
What size tires are on the SE 4x4 with-out the off road package?
The Titan is actually set up to compete with the big American trucks, especially the new Ford F-150. Shouldn't be too tough a job for Nissan, they ought to smoke anything Ford has, in reliability alone. Still wish you could get a "real" bed in the back...the ever elusive 8' true long-bed.
I do need a LB to use for camping, fishing and biking. I set up the back as sleeping quarters, which includes foam padding, etc. and I'm 6'3". An 8' box leaves room at the end for gear and a place for the dog. I pull lightweight boats, I can pull them with my wife's minivan if I wanted to. I know your in sales mode Bowke, that's what you do. I would be interested in the TItan if they better fit my needs. I think it's a nice looking truck tough and I hope it kicks the F-150's rear, but I doubt it will.
You won't have the power you'd like, your mileage is insignificantly better, and you'll take a hit at resale time. Why?
Just like when I sold Fords and Dodges back in the early '90s. Guys wanted to get F-250 4x4s with the 351 instead of the 460, and I just couldn't figure it out. The 460 was only a $418 option and actually got BETTER mileage than the 351 because it didn't have to work as hard.
It was also much more desirable and trade-in time and wasn't anemic when loaded up and/or pulling a trailer.
As far as the mpg's go, 2 mpg's difference is wishful thinking. I'll bet that Titan v-8 is awful piggy (weighs 1000lbs. more) and the difference would be closer to 3-4, maybe 5 mpg's over the reg. cab Tundra. That could mean $500.00 a year and $5,000 over a ten year period. Especially if you like to feel all that extra power as you stomp the pedal in your Titan.
I owned a '73 Lincoln with that 460 in it. It was the biggest gas hog I'd ever seen. Way worse than the 351w in my commercial '83 F-250 (aka the "Wart Hog") That 460 was like flushing a toilet full of gasoline every time you stepped on the pedal. WHOOSH...another gallon. That car would get 6-8 mpg's in town. Unreal!
Just thinking about those two vehicles helps me realize how technologically far we've come in the last few decades.
city hwy
2WD king cab 17 21
4WD king cab 16 20
2WD crew cab 16 21
4WD crew cab 16 19
these are quite competitive, especially since its the most powerful engine in its class.
Also, I want to know...will the Titan have the reliability of the Maxima or the problems of the Frontier? First year runs can be tricky regardless.
This was a quote from another person on another board who just purchased an Armada. Although I can't verify its truth (who ever can in these discussions), it does show some real world figures. The Armada is heavier than the Titan so I would assume the Titan will have equal or better mileage. Remember, he just bought the Armada. My experience has been mileage gets better after a bit of use; usually over 5000k.
I believe the mileage will get what Nissan claims. I know my Frontier did.
Armada: Length: 206.9 in. Width: 78.8 in.
Height: 77.8 in. Wheel Base: 123.2 in.
Ground Clearance: 10 in. Curb Weight: 5013 lbs. range is to 5328 lbs.
Nissan has the same numbers on their website for this model, depending on drivetrain. Nissan has 13-18 and 13-19 mpg depending on drivetrain.
Titan King cab: Curb weight: 5287 lbs the crew-cab would be more. That's a lot of lbs.! Maybe at 55 mph w/a tailwind these big hunks of steel could get close to 19-20 mpg's on the hwy.
Bowke is probably on the phone now getting them in trouble!
I personally think the wait for the titan has been too long. It was announced before the Armada and it is taking 3 months longer!! That shouldn't be!
Armada: Length: 206.9 in. Width: 78.8 in.
Height: 77.8 in. Wheel Base: 123.2 in.
Ground Clearance: 10 in. Curb Weight: 5013 lbs. range is to 5328 lbs.
Nissan has the same numbers on their website for this model, depending on drive train. Nissan has 13-18 and 13-19 mpg depending on drive train.
Titan King cab: Curb weight: 5287 lbs the crew-cab would be more. That's a lot of lbs.! Maybe at 55 mph w/a tailwind these big hunks of steel could get close to 19-20 mpg's on the hwy. "
Maybe you should quote apples to apples!! You are comparing a 4x4 Titan Kingcab to a 4x2 Armada. The actual weight of a 4x2 Titan kingcab is 47 lbs LESS than the 4x2 Armada at 4966 lbs. Your "according to Edmunds" is wrong and you shouldn't spout off facts that aren't verified.
You also compare a standard cab Tundra with the king cab Titan. Not even Ford makes a standard cab any more. You have to compare apples to apples. Yes you can get a standard cab Tundra, but hardly anyone is buying this configuration anymore. Nissan is being proactive and fiscally responsible by not offering the standard cab. If they lose a potential customer like you, so be it. The vast majority of the market doesn't want what you want. And it costs too much to be all things to all people!
I am from an area where everybody buys trucks and good luck on finding a standard cab truck. The Toyota dealer hasn't sold one (or had one) in a long time.
Also, I checked the Edmunds and Nissan sites for the weight of the Armada and see it at 5013 lbs. for the SE 2wd version, the 4wd is heavier, of course. That's heavy to me, we'll have to wait to see the (Nissan) weight for the Titan, it's not yet available on the web site. I'm sure it's about the same...HEAVY.
Who told you Ford doesn't sell a reg. cab p/u anymore? You can bet and believe that Ford and Chevy still make a reg. cab p/u with an 8' box in 2004. Remeber the reason for the p/u market to begin with was the American farmer and they still buy these models in large numbers as work vehicles.
And lastly...I don't care what the market does and who the makers gear there ads or vehicles at, I buy what I want and I sort of hope I AM different from the masses. I've already stated that here and will continue to live by it, sorry if you are offended or threatened by that.
Now, where's that reg. cab, long bed that's not a gas hog that I was searching for? Maybe a 6 cyl, with a stick? Loved those T-100's!
ford does not make a traditional regular cab anymore. their "regular cab" has 4 doors, and the same amount of space behind the seat as the original king cab pickups in the 80s.
2nd, I didn't admit that my weight was not verified, I said the Armada was heavier, which it is, but I couldn't verify the mileage that the person posted was correct.
3rd, Ford's new "regular" cab is really the old version Extended cab from way back. They do have a Heritage edition but that is just their old style F150. The new style has an extension and is not the same as the old regular cab. Granted, they don't have seats back there but they do have room. It reminds me of the Tacoma Extended cab.
4th, maybe the "American Farmer" still buys these trucks in great numbers, BUT and I say BUT, over 85% of new trucks being sold are ext. cabs or Crew Cabs, and that number is growing.
I am not offended or threatened by your comments. Everybody is allowed to have an opinion. However, I stick by my original comments on why Nissan chose not to produce a regular Cab. Money is the reason!They will go after the most profitable section of the truck market and let the domestics have the less profitable sections. They will eventually produce a 8' box, but because the market is greater for a shorter box that is where they threw their initial dollars. Makes sense to me!
As to gas hogs, I would wait and see. I checked out the Toyota Website and they have the Tundra 6 cylinder at 16/19 mpg. The Titan is listed at 14/19 mpg. That isn't that big of a difference. In fact, if you go to an automatic V8, the Tundra gets 15/18. For the 1000lb weight difference, those numbers don't look good for the Tundra. In fact, pound for pound and feature for feature, the Tundra just doesn't compare in the mileage department.
All said, I think that is is good that you ARE different from the masses; but that doesn't mean the masses are always wrong.
I never said the masses were wrong, they are easily manipulated and follow marketing trends directed at them; (as we see here?) however, I was criticized for being different. So be it...I think wanting a long box (rather than a tray on the back of my SUV) and reg. cab P/U is really quite simple.
Furthermore, one doesn't have to be an engineer to question the (+1000 lbs.) weight difference and heavier block vs. gas mileage? Of course, the engines and technology are comparable (not a 1970 engine vs. a 2004 engine), which they are. Just common sense folks, power vs. weight, etc...
I drove a 2003 Silverado 2,000 miles this summer with the 5.3 and never got the 18 mpg it was rated for. Best run was a 600 mile Interstate hwy. trip that yielded 16 mpg overall. Nice truck, nice reg. cab and long bed too. Too bad the UAW built it!
Let's see what this Titan rig REALLY gets for mpg's when it arrives, this is getting old going in circles. Or, after you trade in your Frontier...weigh-in (a ton heavier) in your Titan...AND have 5k or more on the odo...tell us truthfully what you get in your rig. And Keanec, don't forget to calculate in that imp. gallon!
4 days old and already 690 miles on it! The fit & finish were excellent throughout. Looked under the hood with the motor running. It purred in quiet,relaxed rythym. Interior very good quality, the best ergonomics and nice to customize with power pedals/seat. Instrument lights are amber(?),easy to read. Toe-in on the throttle excellent,not to punchy. Transmission shifts are hard to notice. Exhaust has somewhat '60's V-8 growl that settles nicely when speed you want reached. Brakes modulate well. Very quiet at 80mph cruising,though some wind noise as expected with tow pkg mirrors. It tracked really nice,no wander. Steering was precise,nicely weighted,very predictable. It rode nice, absorbing pot holes,bridge gaps,grated concrete without flinching. Yet you never ever feel disconnected from the road. Nice blend, very hard to explain. An SVT or TRD will out handle the Titan, at least with OEM 17 tires/wheels, but it doesn't feel like 5K+ lbs, more like 4k lbs. Again hard to explain. Lots of attention to details such as floor pedal for left foot & room for knees(I'm 6'1,long legs). Another salesman called us in the truck to come back to the dealership. As we got out, another couple took their turn!
The salesman was very patient,polite,friendly,zero pressure,courteous,&knowledgeable. The few things he didn't know,as would be expected at this point-such as accessory details,options prices, we just looked at Armada as for guesstimate figures.
Needless to say, I put a deposit on a Red Brawn LE CC due 2nd week Dec.
The only issue I have? Well just as I thought back at the autoshow, windshield glare is going to be a real issue, lots of sunshine in Austin. I'll just get one of those dash mats !!
Oh, the new Titan brochure fine print incorrect - the Titan does not require premium. Bed has lots of COOL options! There is even a tent for the bed! Oh well, off to work now~
That being said, it was more a review than a joe average person taking a vehicle for a test drive!
Triat is going to lose a s--t load of money on his 2003 Toyota Tundra!
actual production models will be available to drive and buy this coming monday at all dealers.
i also have a "brochure". its called a training log. they passed them out to sales people at the training classes. need info? its in there...but only salespeople have them.
Too bad for you that all dealers aren't as up front as you. I am sure some disregarded Nissans directive. I know they had the same sort of thing with the new Altima (or was it Maxima?). My dealer actually gave me an advanced look see when he wasn't suppose to. He had the car covered and parked out back and he broguht me around and uncovered it.
Virgil Exner please come back. We forgive you.
Regards,
Dusty
we will look at the Titan if one is there. Hopefully a crew cab will be on hand
on the flip side of the coin..... my 2000 Silverado x-tra cab 1500 with a 5.3 gives me low to mid 17 mpg in daily driving since new.
JWILLI420 - Liar is a strong word. You must be now feeling like a fool after dmooremcsi's entry! I got my brochure(as accurately described by dmoorecsi)at the dealer on Monday. It comes folded in a nice dk brown 'envelope'. I typed my review at 11:18pm; sorry if I put 17 instead of 18" wheels. With all the detail of my impressions you call me liar because stupid tire size?? Austin has well educated population & high demand for goods. Making available a loaded test drive vehicle breaking into deeply established pickup state is the only smart option.
BOWKE - Coward! Hey, aren't you the fella that wrote 10-28-03 only pre-production had shiny dashes?? The TITAN I drove last night had shiny dash with windshield glare just from street lights. Be assured, that was my test drive, those are my impressions of Titan,& those are my words.
KEANEC - Other than doing Ironmans & race Lance once a year; I am an average Joe. Thankfully, Toyotas do hold value. I already have a buyer who wants my Tundra. I will lose ~$1K after 7mos/4K miles,not bad. I have been to B.C. many times, my experience mostly small cars. Trucks are minority.
Ya'll can start typing your apologies....
Overall what I think sets the Titan apart is the driving smoothness, and attention to detail both in design & build. I'm hooked!
One question I have I am researching. It appears the side-airbag package can only be ordered with all three packages:tow,off-road,utility bed if I remember correctly. It doesn't seem reasonable to have to buy all this just to get side airbags. Anyone hear otherwise??
Have a great Thanksgiving!
Premium fuel for the Titan, ay? CHA-CHING... You better calculate THAT in w/the mpg's, the Imperial gallon and fuel costs Keanec. You Canucks pay even more for fuel than we do, maybe you have the deep pockets though?
Also, I am reading correctly, that premium fuel is required? I can't believe they would make a truck that does not run on regular.
If you had a 2003 Tundra with that kinda of mileage in my town, you would lose a bundle. That is not knocking the Tundra, it is a fact. You would lose the 15% tax, the air tax, the wheel tax, and the freight and PDI, as well as the admin costs and registration fees if you sold privately to this friend. Trade it in and you will get hurt just as bad.
That being said, going to BC and saying they have all small cars is wonderful, but what does it have to do with me? I live in Northern Ontario which is thousands of miles from BC. If you drove here and said trucks were a minority, you would be laughed at. Also be carefull saying trucks are the minority in BC. It depends on what part of BC you are in. It is a huge province.
Sorry, I can't apologize because I think you owe me. I back what you said up and then you dish me! :-(
I am glad you put a deposit on the Titan. I'll bet you will be very happy with it.
As to the "Premium Fuel" MISPRINT! That is what Triat said and now everybody is worried that is the truth. Jake you jumped all over it without checking out the facts. Check Nissannews.com and go to the complete specs it lists on the Titan. There, it states that the Titan requires REGULAR UNLEADED FUEL. Now, hopefully someone will get a owners manual and it will gives us final proof. I think someone posted the owners manual on the Armada. I will look it up and see what it says.
http://www.courtesyparts.com/armada/assets/2004-Nissan-Pathfinder- -Armada.pdf
I hope this ends that discussion!