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Comments
Star Light Green
Exterior: I think I like the looks of the i grille better than the s, especially in a dark color like blue--it's sporty yet subtle. I thought the blue with the ivory interior was an especially nice combination. The 16" alloys looked sharp, but then so do the 17" wheels on the s. Overall I think it's the best-looking moderately-priced compact sedan today, although I must say I like the Audi-esque look of the Forenza (need to see it in person though).
Interior: The ivory interior with black trim was very sharp, and I prefer it to the dark interior of the s. Some people have noted that the interior feels tight, partly because of the high beltline. It didn't feel cramped to me, more like "intimate". The light interior definitely helps make it seem more spacious. There is definitely a Germanic feel to the interior, and the dash is one of the best on a moderately-priced compact (along with the Golfetta's). There's a lot of hard plastic, but well executed. The gauges were clear but I'd like a few more markings on the speedo--marks are in 20 mpg increments. The main switchgear was fine, about the same quality as that automaker with the "H" on the trunklid--that's Hyundai, not Honda; Honda's switchgear is a bit smoother. I couldn't find the control to regulate the interval wipers; I found it hard to believe that an $18,000 car wouldn't have variable interval wipers. The window switches and power mirror controls were typical for the class, meaning they didn't seem to fit the upscale target of the rest of the interior. But it looked like only the driver's window switch was lighted (couldn't test this in the daytime). I liked the big side mirrors and the fact that they fold away. The front seat was very comfortable, with good back support (with the optional adjuster), but there was one problem that is common in this class: the seat bottom doesn't adjust independently of the seat back. That means the entire seat can go up and down, but the angle of the seat bottom can't be adjusted much. You can do this on the Protege and a few other small cars (including cheapies like the Rio and Accent), so I'm disappointed this feature is not on the 3. The seat comfort is pretty good, but it would have been exceptional had I been able to raise the seat cushion a bit. The steering wheel looked good but felt cheap with its hard plastic. The tilt/telescope feature was great for adjusting the wheel just right. The round air vents were a classy touch. I didn't check out the standard stereo very long, but I wasn't impressed from what I heard from it--the sound seemed thin. But I didn't adjust the tone controls, either. The glovebox was roomy. With the driver's seat set for me (5'9", 32" inseam) I sat in the back. To my surprise, it felt tighter than the Protege and also several other small cars (Civic, Corolla, Elantra, Focus). My shins were touching the seatback and my feet felt cramped under the seat. Also, there was about 1" between my head and the headliner; the 5-door should be better there. I noticed there was no rear seat armrest, another thing I would like to see on a $18,000 car. The trunk opening is very short, but the lid (with hydraulic lifts) opens wide and it's all usable space with no hinges intruding.
Driving: This is definitely the 3's strong suit. Handling was superb, sharp without being twitchy. This is definitely a car that puts a grin on your face. Ride was firm but not harsh, and not as hard as the Protege. I took the car over some washboard surfaces and found the ride motions well controlled. The body seemed rock-solid, although the dash squeaked softly over the bigger bumps. Noise was fine for its class, about on a par with cars like the Civic and Elantra but noisier than the Corolla. The noise was from the engine, tires (minimal), and some significant wind noise from the A-pillar (or mirror) at highway speed driving into a light wind. The automatic tranny shifted very smoothly and the shifts were well-timed. I played a bit with the sport shifter but it shifted so well on its own I just left it alone. The power was more than adequate for everyday driving even with the slushbox, but I'd go with the 5-speed for additional performance and sportiness. I checked out the stick shift on an s model and it was smooth and well-positioned, with a comfy leather grip.
Bottom line: The 3i is an excellent small car, definitely near the top of its class. It didn't blow me away enough to make me replace my Elantra right now, but I'll definitely keep it in mind when that time comes. By then, the price should be more reasonable. At just over $17k, there's other cars that I think offer a better value, including the 6i, Civic EX, and Corolla LE (all available under $16k) and the Elantra GT (under $13k).
To my friends in Canada if you want to get out of the ice and snow or should I say sand and salt don't do what I did !! I left Montreal about 40 years ago and kept moving south -- but , I moved too damn far !! I ended up here in Guatemala -- say no more !! If I had it to do again I would stop at a medium size town somewhere between Jacksonville and San Antonio !!
To my new friend in Israel I think we have the same Problem . It is well known that the best cors are made in Japan , but , the cars sold in our countries could come from anywhere !! Be careful !! The Mazda 3 is a mutch better buy than a Corolla !! That's enough for today !!
Look at that knf2020 Nov 20, 2003 11:32pm
Pretty impressive!
Bruno:
Q: "Any chance for us (non site-owner) to look at highres pics? I wonder if Dinu bought the camera just to take some Mazda3 pictures for us? ;-)"
A: Eh... that's not the point
Neomonkey:
Q: "If you have the time, could you take pictures of the GT+GFX"
A: There you go my TELUS friend -> Titanium GT w/GFX.
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dinuone/vwp?.dir=/Mazda3+Sedan&a- mp;.dnm=TitaniumSedanGFXFront.jpg&.view=t and http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/3fc8ad6f_b484/bc/Mazda3+Sedan/__tn- _/TitaniumSedanGFXRear.jpg?bc1nSy_AQU5SIsyc
In other news:
The HB's rear window (new pic):
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dinuone/vwp?.dir=/Mazda3+HB&- .dnm=LavaHBRear.jpg&.view=t
My new wallpaper (the car was dirty since it snowed): http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dinuone/vwp?.dir=/Mazda3+HB&- .dnm=LavaHBFrontLow.jpg&.view=t
Talked to one of the sales guys and he said the Lava HB and the Silver GS w/ A/C+A/T+PWR+SPORT sedan have more than 500ksm each only from test drives. I spent about 20-30 minutes around the cars today and the Mazda3s were on test drives non-stop. The dealership was BUSY!!! Looks like all the Mazda3 fans are out there
Dinu
The GOOD: Guy driving a Titanium Sedan GT w/GFX, then he says something like "but there's another car just like it" and the Winning Blue w/GFX appears and the 2 cars drive side-by-side on a curvy road.
The BAD: He says something like he's thinking about some girl in Winnipeg - now for those of you not too familiar w/Canada, Winnipeg, Regina and Saskatoon is what I wouldn't want to be reminded of when I pay $12+ for a movie.
Overall: Sad. VERY sad. They should have shown the car on a city street, on an auto-X course or on some curvy road, with no dumb comments and references to the lowest common denominator of Canadian cities. Just the car, maybe show what it does better than the Civic/Corolla, show its interior at night and end with the traditional Zoom-Zoom. Hey, at least the kid said Zoom-Zoom at the end, but what a dumb commercial. This will actually put some people off - Winnipeg??? Argh!
Dissapointed Dinu
I talked to an Asian guy with a woman that were looking at the RX-8 in the showroom...
Dinu
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/brunoluong/vwp?.dir=/Album+02&am- p;.dnm=wheels.jpg&.view=t
Nice big pictures, courtesy from Preston Wong.
So Dinu, if you come across Preston, please take a shot with your camera.
Likewise Preston. ;-)
May be we should start a photo album folder called "Mazda3 fans at Edmunds"
Tell me how your Yahoo! album is set-up so I can make mine the same.
Dinu
PS: to check how other people would see you pics, try to sign out before looking at the pics.
And there was another Asian guy with a woman that were returning the Lava HB and I asked him to turn the lights on for a sec to snap a pic of the dash at night = it didn't come our perfectly so I deleted the image.
Dinu
Dinu
And speaking of the difference between the two engines. I mentioned how the torque graphs are very different. To be exact, at a mere 1500rpm, the 2.3l already generates the amount of torque equivalent to the max of the 2.0l (this is euro-spec 2.0l vs. JDM 2.3l). Bruno, I'll email you an image of the hp/torque curves that includes the JDM tuning of the 2.3l (this image will illustrate the point I'm making here).
Bruno, like you, I'm going to keep my identity in the dark
And Dinu, you didn't look like what I envisioned you to look like, that's why I didn't make the connection when we met (I did see you getting into your car after we chatted, but you were still there when I left the lot - I never went into the dealership, just there to take pics). But again, I probably don't look like what you envisioned either (assuming you remember how I look like given my description of our encounter).
Dinu: Yahoo's photo software scales large photos down to 400X300, regardless of the size. Or it scales a thumbnail image UP to 400X300 and that is why some photos look weak and washed out, fewer pixels.
Make your photos about 5"x7" to hold detail and sharpness, let the other application scale them to fit the space. And be sure they are 72dpi.
The second web site you listed did not load because there are blank spaces between parts of it. NO blank spaces in URLs, none of these either ____
fowler3
So everybody runs to those other web sites and we see photos of MJ wearing a mask. LOL!
I can tell you, nobody online resembles our pre-conceived ideas of their appearances. Only so much can be gathered from the way they "talk" in text. But I have yet to meet an online person who wasn't a nice person, and many are still friends today. This statement is from two experiences going to Macworld Expos in San Francisco and working with people in online chat services on the Net and on AOL. I'm sure good people come to Edmunds.
Don't be startled if you meet in a car lot or at an expo, you are sharing a common interest, and that is your door-opener to a long-term friendship, even if you never meet again.
fowler3
BTW, the 3s and the 3 hatch driver's seatpan can be adjusted for both height and angle. The 3i driver's seat lacks these adjustments and the adjustable lumbar support.
Drove a Pro Lx 5 spd. Fun car and actually the front runner at $11,200 before TTL.
However after tooling around in the pro what did I see on the lot? 11 Mazda3s! wow, what a bold figure that car strikes. The colors, the lines, the size all conjure up a mental price 3-4k higher than sticker. 15k for a base with AC? nice. The interior is lightyears beyond anything else in this class (Pro, Civic, Corolla, Sentra, elantra, Scion xA/xB, Focus). I didn't drive one as they lacked a manual on the lot (without a manual, I'd only hate the car).
Anyone know if the s-plan is available for the 3?
blueguydotcom, in Canada, dealers have no problem using the Canadian equivalent of the s-plan (I used it on my Mazda3 order).
OK, that does it. I must have this car.
“The steering wheel looked good but felt cheap with its hard plastic. The tilt/telescope feature was great for adjusting the wheel just right.”
Point taken, as neither the Jetta nor the Corolla allows long-leg drivers to reach the steering wheel w/o arm stretching. & that’s what matters more.
“I noticed there was no rear seat armrest, another thing I would like to see on a $18,000 car.”
I wonder if the $19-27k Jetta has it in N.A. Or the $28k BMW sedan w/o optional leather or $500 folding rear seats, as if this feature became illegal in this country for compact cars under $30k. I guess my $12k ’90 Protégé LX is the only exception.
“The noise was from the engine at highway speed driving into a light wind.”
How sad, even from the tall top gear on the fwy? What a low-tech 2.0.
mazdafun Nov 29, 2003 9:25pm
“The 3i driver's seat lacks these adjustments and the adjustable lumbar support.”
Aside from the fabric difference, the 3s driver’s seat is optional together w/ power package & 16”s on the 3i.
Bruno: Not a bad idea on that - meet the members (w/pics).
Gary: Right... How about that trip to RO? Still thinking about it?
Dinu
Jettas have tilt/telescope.
Dinu
The 3s hatches all come with the 2.3 and it was fast and nimble. No tippyness like a Focus.
The 3i sedan had the 2.0 (I wanted to see what it was like) and was OK, not as fun as the hatch.
Didn't feel cheap or confined, like some detractors have said.
Now, the dealers aren't discounting, but people are coming in to look. Spring would be best time to get one, when there are more to pick.
“‘Point taken, as neither the Jetta nor the Corolla allows long-leg drivers to reach the steering wheel w/o arm stretching. & that’s what matters more.’
Jettas have tilt/telescope.”
it's still a long reach.
I'm surprised someone long-leg like you that can't be satisfied by the enormously roomy new Accord sedan's back seat & need som'in like the angled-up thigh support of the '99-02 Maxima's back seat didn't complain about Jetta's far-away steering. I'm only 5'11" & already...
Since the '83 626, I've always found Mazda sedans' steering wheel close-enough for me, even w/o telescope.
*Colors and exterior:
- (Hatch) Titanium Grey, Lava Orange Mica, Winning Blue, Sunlight Silver... (Sedan) Strato Blue... I'm sure there were more sedan colors, although I wasn't paying attention to those nearly as much as I was the Hatch which looks great in all colors. I'm not as big a fan as the Lava Orange I was once was (I thought it would be a bit more copper than orange). In person, Strato Blue has a definite purple hue, looks great nonetheless. The Titanium Grey hatch showed off the hatch's lines very well! Too bad there were no black models on the floor. Right now, it's between the Strato Blue, Black and Titanium Grey hatch for me.
- Pictures really don't do the hatch justice, you must really see the car in person as it actually looks proportional from most angles.
- The rear bumper is huge in both hatch and sedan form. It must stick out 6-8 inches past the truck/hatch latch.
*Interior:
- Titanium grey hatch had leather and navigation. The leather isn't really comparable to that you'd find in a $50,000 volvo as it's not as smooth and supple to the touch, but is along the same lines of an AudiA4 1.8T, feeling somewhat composite and unnatural. It just didn't seem to "breathe" very well, which may change as the seats are broken in.
- The gas pedal nearly hides behind the center stack which can be a bit cumbersome and tiring on long drives as it requires you rotate your foot slightly to the right. The sport pedals sure look nice tho.
- I noticed that in both 3s and 3i models, there is no storage binnacle where the navigation system would be.
- The glove compartment is huge! Much better than any Honda or other Japanese car I sat in today. In models equipped with Nav, the glove compartment houses the DVD drive. BTW, does anyone know if the Nav system can play DVD movies?
- Overall, the interior fit/finish and materials were impressive. The car felt roomy to me (being 5'9") and the seats fit like a glove. The rear seats were satisfactory so long as the front passenger/driver don't have long legs (which leaves very little leg room for rear passengers).
- The sedan's trunk seems average for this class, not small, but not large by any means. The hatch's rear compartment is far more versatile.
Two things I really appreciate about auto shows are that you can aesthetically compare all available models you're considering purchasing without (1) having to drive to different dealerships and (2) having to deal with car salesmen to get into the car, examine, etc... As such, I have to say within it's class the Mazda3 outshines and outclasses all other competing cars in style and materials.
That's all I can think of for my observations. I'll most likely take a test drive in a couple weeks, once dealer inventory builds up and I get through my finals. All I can find at local dealers are Automatic Sedans...
Some other notables at the SF Auto Show.
- Ferrari's looked great! Red Enzo and Modena!
- The Lamborghini's were there. Black Gallardo and Murcielago.
I'll be hovering around my mailbox for my issue of C/D!
BTW, does anyone know if the Nav system can play DVD movies?
I don't think so, simply because it's illegal in the US to have a movie screen that is eye-accessible to the driver.
Here is the graph Preston email me: Engine torques
Preston, this is one way to see it. Here is my analysis on engine/gearing.
- Comparing two engines with the same gearing (read: 2.0L and 2.3L MT), at the same car speed, the engines will run at the same RPM. The difference in the performance, i.e., the amount of torque at the drive-wheels is proportional to the torque at the fly wheels at this RPM. So reading the vertical axis of the torque curves is a better way to compare car engines.
- Things is more complex when the gear setup are also different. Here is what I think:
First, let's remind the definition of power: power is the capability to provide energy in a short period of time: P=dE/dt, or globally T=E/P, where E is the total dynamical energy of the car, which include kinetic energy, plus energy from air resistance, rolling resistance, etc... At a same cruising speed, two cars (with similar weight and wheels) have the same total energy E, regardless the engine. From the equation T=E/P, we can see why car with higher power P requires less time T to reach a given speed, i.e. a given E. Everybody know this without knowing the equation!
- Power (or torque) at the drive-wheels P is proportional to the product between engine torque at the fly wheel and the RPM.
- The question now is how to set the gearing so that the weaker engine 2.0L has similar performance than larger engine 2.3L. According to the bottom graph of this image
in order to get the same power, we just need to offset the RPM by 10% (5000 RPM of the red and 5500 RPM of the green have the same power of 140hp). The design solution is making the final drive taller by 10%. Of course, the price is the smaller engine has to run at higher RPM and thus more noisy.
- That's why I think the gearing setup is almost as important as the engine performance, at least in real life driving and not for some abstract 0-60 chrono.
Sorry to be lengthly and boring.
http://www.sfu.ca/~dcheung/m3/gauges.mpg
http://www.sfu.ca/~dcheung/m3/stereo.mpg
Yep it wasn't me then. The looks of the guy I spoke to didn't seem to fit you either (as in older than someone going to school).
Bruno:
Yes, I agree with you that gearing is a huge factor. However, it's very, very difficult to do an exact apples-to-apples comparison and that's why I just generalized with the graphs. This is also why the numbers and theory are nice but the most important thing is to actually drive the thing and when I drove both engines in auto, there was a significant difference to me.
I think I'll remain anonymous until any potential meets next year
Preston: Looks like it. But I'm sure we were there at the same time.
Oil for the 2.3L: 5W20 is recommended IIRC for the Sport GT (2.3L). Is this what someone should use year-round or would you use a different oil in the winter? Regular or Synthetic or Blend?
Dinu
Note there was NO mention of noise, and Healey is usually a noise freak!
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/brunoluong/lst?.dir=/Mazda3+Comm- - unity&.src=ph&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//f1.p- - g.photos.yahoo.com/
I'll have to take a pic of myself eventually.
Dinu
I know the Mazda 4 is an all wheel drive and it will be shown first , Next year at the Geneva Auto show !!
But what I would like to know is :
1. What body stiles will be built ?
2. When will the "4" be in show rooms ?
Keep them coming!