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http://www.upsolute.com/
If they have indeed achieved that, I'm quite surprised. BTW, one of their claims is wrong, the maximum pressure available today is from VW's pump nozzles (and that's what the 1.9l TDI uses), with up to 2200 bars.
And the Mazda 6 in Diesel versions does NOT achieve Euro 4 standards, so I wonder whether this isn't just PR hype...
I'd bet the "undisclosed manufacturer" is Renault. It could also be Opel, though. Both are in high need of upgrading their Diesel offerings!
scooter: I hate the NYTimes web site for its obligation of registering which I don't want to comply to... Is it reprinted in any normally accessible site somewhere? And what are the issues you're talking about? CAFE? Don't tell me "perception" please... When you drive one of these modern Diesels you immediately forget about the old ones
john: yes, there are improvements in progress on the Diesel emissions front. There are the new Common Rail systems and particulate filters. In particular, these new Common Rail systems are able to adapt to engine wear, which means their emissions will remain constant on the whole LIFE of the engine - something that current gas engines cannot achieve! The post injection also means a higher temperature in the exhaust, which in turn means catalysers and particulate filters can get up to the task quickly. And there's HCCI (Homogenous Charge Compression Ignition), but it's experimental and a pain to get right. It may well be outfashioned by more conventional systems before it even gets ready for mainstream (while it's a boon for NOx and particulate emissions, it has the disadvantage of increasing CO and HC emissions due to reduced injection timing precision - which is Common Rail's strong point).
diesel is more expensive than gasoline in the US. that will obviously prevent adoption from taking place. perception is obviously an issue to be overcome, as always- not a "build them and they will come" scenario. they also argued that americans are very unlikely to pay a premium for a diesel car, given both of the above.
i would add to their list that people perceive diesel cars to be more expensive to maintain, and with hard-to-find oil and parts (in the US).
don't get me wrong, i'd love to see readily available cheap and very clean diesel fuel and a wide selection of diesel cars here, easily and cheaply maintained. but for now diesel cars in the US are mostly for hobbyists and hard-core fans.
Diesels have no spark plugs, the major maintenance service with the TDI is a timing belt change at 100K, routine maintenance is oil change every 10K and fuel filters at 20K intervals. Oil changes are more expensive because synthetic is required.
I traded my dodge dakota for the TDI back in January. Just before fuel prices went crazy.
i also refuse to buy a hybrid since the technology is in its infancy and the 2 cars offered aren't desireable. but i'm watching this one closely.
hey- how about a diesel/electric hybrid?
TDI= 50 mpg highway, 12.5 gallons (when the low fuel light goes on). at $1.799 per gallon: 625 miles and $22.50
2.0L= 30 mpg highway, 12.5 gallons (when the low fuel light goes on), at $1.599 per gallon: 375 miles and $20. To get to 625 miles, it needs another 8.333 gallons and $13.33
For every 625 miles, I'm saving $10.83 on fuel costs. The TDI motor costs $1000 more.
Let's say for my 40,000 annual miles...to make the math easier...
2.0L: 40,000 miles/30 mpg * $1.599 per gallon = $2133.2
TDI: 40,000 miles/50 mpg * $1.799 per gallon = $1439.92
In one year, the savings is $693 on fuel costs. In another year, the fuel costs will pay for the TDI motor upgrade.
Not everyone drives 40,000 miles a year, for my needs...the TDI suits me just fine.
107 of 110 by hload : Actually, in PA, NJ, and DE, diesel prices at the pump has jumped considerably in the last 2 months, where a gallon costs $1.759 to about $2 a gallon. Compare with regular gasoline, about $0.30 to $0.40 more expensive per gallon. I don't know about NYC, since I seldomly go there. Heating oil prices has gone up also in the area.
At 12,000 miles a year and 30 mpg, we buy about 400 gallons of gasoline a year. At $1.50/gal, that is $600/yr. The same 12,000 mi/yr in a TDI at 48 mpg drops consumption to about 250 gal/yr. At about $1.69/gal for diesel, fuel costs about $422.50/yr. If I can buy a 30 mpg car for $16k, then it will take 22 years to get my money back for the $20k Jetta TDI or Prius or Hybrid Civic.
Even at 18k mi/yr, fuel economy alone is not a good reason to buy a TDI or hybrid. At 30 mpg, you'll buy $900 of fuel a year. At 48 mpg, you'll buy $633.75 worth of fuel. You'll save only $266.25 a year; or it will take about 15 years to get your money back. I know a Hybrid runs on regular, so, even if you consider fuel savings at $1.50/gal, it will still take over 11 years to get your money back.
Now, if you drive 40k mi/yr, the TDI is great. If all you are worried about is lowering dependance on Middle Eastern oil, then Hybrids are just for you. But, I think if you're a regular guy who is thinking about buying one just for fuel economy on your average driving needs, then there are better choices available.
You CAN'T just take fuel savings in account.
Prius also provides road-side assistance and routine maintenance within the purchase price. That's works out to about a $475 value. Then you there's the tax deduction that provides about a $300 savings. The oil change cycle is longer than other gas vehicles too.
The environmental value seems to also get ignored as having value. Diesel is at the bottom. SULEV hybrids are at the top. That's a rather significant difference which some feel is worth investing in.
And yes, I'm still for the idea of a diesel-hybrid. So some day, that could provide the best of all worlds.
JOHN
http://john1701a.com
Jetta wagon 1.8T $19550
Jetta wagon 1.9 TDI $19865
Subaru Forester $22436
Toyota Matrix $16785
Mazda Protege5 $18515
Honda Insight $20740
Toyota Prius $20980
Refusing to look at a diesel because of current emmisions is pretty lame. Look around: airplanes, trucks, trains, power generating stations produce more emissions than a bunch of TDI's could ever could. Do some research - Wallmart and most auto parts stores carries a compatible oil or just go to the dealer for oil changes - sure they are $60.00 bucks but at 10K intervals - its still cheaper than jiffy lube.
40% of Europe drives diesel cars. Mercedes Benz will import diesels again in 04 and VW will introduce a Diesel Passat and Toureg. Jeep is thinking of offering a Liberty with a diesel.
That package is *EXTREMELY* well loaded. To compare to a vehicle with just the basics, you have to subtract several thousand from that price.
>> Refusing to look at a diesel because of current
>> emmisions is pretty lame.
How's that any different from ignoring the fact that "smog alert" days occur every summer, where the young & elderly are told to consider not coming outside due to the pollution level being so high? Buying another diesel vehicle won't help reduce the problem at all.
>> oil changes - sure they are $60.00 bucks but at 10K
>> intervals - its still cheaper than jiffy lube.
The price of a Jiffy Lube change with filter is $21.99 for a Prius and is only needed every 7,500 miles.
JOHN http://john1701a.com
What the Prius has that the Golf GL TDI doesn't
- CVT Transmission (automatic is $1200 option)
- Rear Drum brakes
- Aluminum alloy wheels (comes with the automatic on the TDI GL)
- Rear spoiler
- Automatic climate control
- Center Console
....so a Golf GL TDI is extremely loaded also for its purchase price.
hload: You forgot something. Since you compared Jetta wagons to each other, specifically the GL models...you forgot the base engine.
Jetta GL wagon 2.0L: $17,900 (not including destination charge)
We don't have smog alerts here in WA, I remember those days when I lived in CA. Too many people living in the LA basin
And BTW the particulate filter doesn't prevent this same engine to output 218hp on the 730d. So no, particulate filters don't sap power.
So far...Jiffy Lube and Pep Boys (the only two places I go to) take my diesel oil for recycling without hesitation.
We all know that CARB is different than anything else in the country but here is a quote from their diesel regulation report.
"WHEREAS, the Board finds that:
1. In California diesel particulate matter (PM) accounted for approximately 70 percent of all air toxics in 2000 and the average potential cancer risk associated with diesel PM is over 500 excess cases per million people;"
Tell me you don't think it will be hard to get any new diesels into California before 2006.
Driving needs in Europe are different from those here. So comparing a percent value doesn't mean much without "intended use" and "traffic/road condition" information. Does anyone have details of that nature?
I know that the Japanese version of EPA ratings are significantly different due to different driving needs there. Prius actually scores somewhere around 74 MPG based on those tests. Our driving speed & distance is obviously quite different.
JOHN http://john1701a.com
emissions... http://forums.tdiclub.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB21
some very insightful tdi-related posts there.
Ahwell, Diesel has overcome so many challenges that it could well achieve Tier 2 anyhow. It does already on the particulate front...
And of course, neither Tier 2 nor Euro 4 take engine wear and its influence on emissions into account.
Is that what they call officially "Diesel #2". I live in Minnesota, so I see that all the time when pumping low-sulfur gasoline into my tank. I've been doing that since September 1999.
The polictics of clean aren't an issue here.
JOHN http://john1701a.com
Diesel#2 is diesel for passenger cars and commericial trucks.
B2, is new for Minnesota. This is 2% Biodiesel mixed with 98% Diesel #2
Why so little?
The gasoline here is 10% blended with ethanol.
JOHN http://john1701a.com
I lived in Germany a few years back - the major difference I saw was how much better drivers they were.
How many hybrids sell outside the US?
At some times in the 90s, manufacturers (especially PSA) were trying to push 100% electric vehicles... but apart from public service fleets they just didn't sell, and were dropped. Only Renault has one for sale now.
Diesel powered cars killed them both...
There are 130,000 Prius on roads today. About 40,000 of them are in the United States. The great majority of the remaining are in Japan.
The United States will soon be the target audience for Prius, since we spend a lot more than necessary on vehicles, CARB is leading the way for low-emission standards, and gas is the dominant fuel.
JOHN
http://john1701a.com
damn, i'm jealous
CVT is growing in popularity. It's amazing how many Saturn Ions have been sold already. I see them all over the place. The concept of not having any gears is catching on quickly. After awhile, Prius will be just another vehicle that offers CVT. "Fun" has different meaning for some people.
JOHN http://john1701a.com
Pennsylvania was considering E10, but found it was not worth the "benefits" currently.
From what I read, when MTBE is phased out complete, Ethanol will take its place as the oxygen enhancing additive.
>> worth the "benefits" currently
Minnesota has been using it for over a decade now. It started as just a winter-blend, then a few years ago the state government required it to be used all year long.
That's one of the very reasons I have doubts about wide & rapid acceptence of other alternatives, like clean diesel. E10 is extremely well proven and has been priced competitively to offset the lower efficiency, yet not many really seem to care. In fact, some people still fear that it will harm their engine. Also, based on the technical success of E10 here, E85 was created.
JOHN http://john1701a.com
I drive a TDI Passat, so I'm diesel-sided. But I definitely support folks who chose a gas-electric hybrid instead, as they're trying to do their best.
For me, there's one factor that puts diesels way beyond hybrid gassers: biodiesel (info at www.biodieselnow.com). I'm willing to pay a premium for bio ($2.25+/gallon), for several reasons:
1) It's very nearly carbon-neutral (and can be truly carbon neutral if it's made right), meaning it only releases as much carbon dioxide that the source plant (usually soy in the US) sucked out of the atmosphere a few months ago. Burning petroleum adds CO2 into the atmosphere that has been locked up in the earth. So, it contributes very little to global warming, if anything at all. And if it's made from waste vegetable oil, it's actually converting what would otherwise be landfill fodder to fuel! Sweet.
2) It supports farmers, not big oil and OPEC. 'Nuff said. Terrorists get most of their funding from Middle Eastern extremists. The Middle East gets most of its wealth from oil. Connect the dots.
3) In so doing, it keeps your fuel dollars in the national economy instead of sending it out of the economy.
4) It's good for the engine! It has higher cetane (in laymans terms, the diesel version of octane) and vastly superior lubricity.
5) It makes your exaust smell like popcorn and eliminates smoke.
6) It's RENEWABLE! Petroleum is not. Oil is madness. We're going to run out, and it'll be sooner rather than later. We are right around the peak of global oil production. Every gallon of oil we burn is one gallon closer to the last. Take a look at http://www.hubbertpeak.com to learn a bit more about the coming end of oil.
Sulfur is the primary reason for particulates. When ULSD comes in, there will be about 1/30th the sulfur in today's typical American diesel. This will allow car manufacturers to build the engine to minimize NOx and add a particulate trap to snag what little particulates exist in the burned ULSD exhasut.
So probably starting in the 2007 model year, we'll be able to get clean burning diesels!
Hybrids Better Than Diesels? Says You!
http://www.edmunds.com/news/regularnews/articles/89493/article.ht- - ml
Live and Let Die-sel (about a diesel PT Cruiser that the diesel hating author really enjoyed)
http://www.edmunds.com/news/column/carmudgeon/72740/article.html
A quote (in relation to the in-gear dicussion folks had earlier):
The important point is this was the coolest PT Cruiser I'd ever piloted. Finally, the car had the kind of low-end grunt I've always pined for in this otherwise capable cargo hauler. Plus, with the turbo thrust coming on at higher rpm, it was actually fun to drive. Forget the 4,500 rpm redline, this PT had excellent roll-on power for passing slow-moving motorists on Pacific Coast Highway. Just leave it in third (it had a five-speed manual) and use the throttle like a volume knob to dial in the necessary power when needed. Although my time in this PT was limited, I'd guesstimate it was getting about 35 miles to the gallon while producing no more noise or odor than a typical 2.0-liter version.
Diesels have less maintenance than gas or hybrid vehicles, and they run forever.
Down sides: It takes a long time to heat up a diesel. The fuel stinks like heck. The emissions.
I think the positives far outweigh the negatives, they do for me anyway.
In addition, how much more expensive initially is a hybrid than a diesel engined car? The Civic hybrid is about $3000 more than a Golf hatchback, about $500-1000 more than a Jetta sedan (with less equipment). How much would you have to drive the hybrid in order to make up the larger differences?
Diesel fuel stinks no more than gas. It's just different. If your whole life you'd been filling up with diesel and then smelled gas, you'd think it stinks.
What proof do you have that diesels require less maintenance than hybrids?
And do you mean routine work or actual repairs?
JOHN http://john1701a.com
The only diesel cars in the US, the VW TDIs, don't require any form of tune-ups. They run off biodiesel, and can even be modified to run off vegetable oil (don't laugh, I've seen it with my own eyes, or I wouldn't have believed it either). Also, oil changes occur every 10K miles in the TDIs.
Diesel engines last forever anyway. Look at how many hours they run in big rigs, and the sise of the loads put on them. They still run on and on.
There is not enough proof to talk the reliability of hybrids down, but it seems to be a rule that something is more technically advanced, there are more things to go wrong, and they will be more expensive to repair if/when they do. Also, what about battery pack replacement? How much does that cost? Those batteries aren't as good for the environment as the cars are either...