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YUCK.....
(I cannot find the review online, it was in a small Texas town newspaper last week)
On a similar note, I drove a long roadtrip this season, and most of the truck stops had diesel anywhere from 12 to 18 cents higher per gallon than regular unleaded....
___And what was the differential 6 months ago? And 1 year and 6 months ago. Less. What will it be in 6 months from now? More then likely less as Diesel #2 cycles with heating oil demand like clock work.
___As for Diesel exhaust in the cabin, you can write that diesel off. Any automobile with exhaust back into the cabin is a problem and shouldn’t be in anyone’s driveway.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
I take my long trips in December and in June, and those are "travel times" when most gas prices spike so they can rob us since they know so many of us are taking long trips.....GGGRRRRRRR !!!
I paid 1.57, 1.65, 1.65, and 1.52 per gallon for the four fillups I made on my vacation which ended yesterday.
If this article was already posted---forgive me!
Good comparison between the hybrid and diesel accord.
If it were to be accurate, a conclusion to be drawn here would be that Honda's 140 HP diesel in Accord is way more impressive than VW's 134 HP diesel used in Passat. Passat's fuel economy per EPA standards would translate to 33 mpg (similar to Accord Hybrid).
.
That's because it's not relevant. Asking that question is as silly as asking, "What is the cost to replace my engine?" Both the engine/battery are permanent installations, designed to last 250,000 or more miles.
troy
"Are Light-Diesels Better than Hybrids?
In part it depends on type of driving you do.
For example, hybrids are much better in city driving than other vehicles because they shut off their engines at red lights and allow the electric motors to do the work at times when the engine is least efficient. For the city driver, the hybrid car is the way to go, averaging about 10 mpg better than the TDI diesels around town.
However, diesels are better on the highways. If you do very little city driving, a diesel would actually yield slightly better mileage than the hybrid. But the gas engine of the Prius or Civic would still be cleaner in terms of air pollution.
Another factor is what you need to haul. The TDI Jetta Wagon has about triple the luggage capacity of a Prius.
Bottom line, diesel engines can be a transitional technology as we move toward zero emissions vehicles, and their advantages overcome air pollution drawbacks as low-sulfur fuel and clean burning biodiesel become more available in the US.
Until then, hybrids are the greener machines."
I think that sums it up pretty well. Although this came out before the new 2004 Prius which can also excel at highway driving mpg. And I get 47-53 mpg on the highway in my 2004 HCH.
(Subtitle: "We Don't Need No Stinkin' Hybrids !!)
http://www.dailybreeze.com/business/articles/1328356.html
I've been driving my 2003 Jetta GLS TDI wagon for about 3 months now and it is fantastic. I got the 5 speed and it is so fun to drive. I never would have imagined a diesel would have this kind of power and zip and the mileage with the diesel is unbelieveable! The only problem I seem to be having is trying to not get a speeding ticket. The old notion of diesels being slow & stinky is a thing of the past with the VW TDI. When I started new car shopping I never even thought of a diesel until I drove the TDI & I was hooked. I just couldn't believe I was driving a diesel & really still can hardly believe the 45 to 50 mpg I'm getting. Run don't walk to your nearest VW dealer.... one down side is that the TDI's seem hard to find but they are sure worth the effort.
With fuel consumption below 4-litres/100 km, the Astra Diesel Hybrid is projected to be 25 percent more fuel-efficient than comparable diesel models.
http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/05detroit/astra_dhc.htm
Hybrid diesel Opel Astra. Bring this to North America as a Saturn.
And here is a hybrid SUV concept from GM. Maybe GM is not dying. http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/05detroit/graphyte.htm
Lots of people think that Toyota can take over number one. I say it ain't over till the fat lady sings. Toyota is still number 4 in sales behind the Big 3. They have to sell 50 billion dollars worth to catch GM & 22 billion just to catch DCC. That is 2.5 million more cars. I don't think Prius will get them to their goal of world domination.. They made a big profit because they rip people off with high priced cars and cheap labor.
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"Diesel engines get hybrid mileage at half the extra cost, says Pratt. Diesels can also burn a wide variety of renewable fuels, even cooking oil. In unveiling the bank-vault-like Syn-US, Mr. Ford said it could drive from New York to Los Angeles nine times and back before emitting as much smog-forming chemical as painting a bedroom."
Read entire article here:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0111/p03s01-ussc.html
If 2005 is the year of the hybrid, look for 2006 to be the year of the diesel.
And certain persons told me that I was "nuts" to think it was possible to make SULEV or PZEV diesel-powered cars for California highways. "Diesel is Dirty!" is what they yelled at me, followed by various privately emailed insults like "idiot" or "troll".
Well, take a look for yourself. I was right. I didn't deserve to be insulted.
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&newsid=739- 5
troy
Also, this design is a lot like the Insight or Civic. It's 100% diesel-fueled, with some minor electric assist.
If Honda or Toyota wanted to bring a diesel sedan to the USA, that would help.
But they won't because that would compete with their Hybrids.
So you diesel fans are in for a long ride to acceptability.
Nahhh, we can just buy bigger vehicles that blast out 10X the emissions. I've put 1,000 miles on my Tahoe last week instead of my TDI and I can't say that there's much downside to driving a big vehicle. Besides the fuel usage, but heck it's legal! Must be good for the environment! A Tahoe with a big honking diesel would be even better. Look for one in the spring of 2006. Might even be a hybrid diesel, but the info is sketchy at this point.
People want utility. If they cannot get a small PU with a diesel they buy a big PU truck with a diesel. Blame it on the EPA and CARB. Not the guy that lives within the rules. Ford, Dodge and Chevy are cranking out BIG diesel engines as fast as they can. Just as a note the Diesels in domestic PU trucks are $5k to $7k premium and they sell as fast as they get on the lots. And it is not all fleet. I don't even think Dodge has much fleet sales.
Diesel hybrid sedans with a $5K to $7K premium...will not fly off the lots.
I agree completely. I see so many F350 crew cabs with diesel running the streets with one on board. There is no way unless you pull a trailer that you can justify the premium on diesel trucks. But they sell very well. Most of them are not for business.
I think the $1000 premium on the Jetta TDI is a bit high. However the Passat TDI is only $200 premium which makes it a good deal. Again the trick is getting one under MSRP. Up until a few weeks ago that was not an easy thing to do. The TDIs are an easier premium to justify than the hybrid at $3000.
http://pscuderi.homedns.org/US20040255882.pdf
Check out the brake thermal efficiency compared to the Otto cycle in table 9. Also, see the NOx emissions in figure 24.
This engine model carries the credibility of Southwest Research Institude - regarded by many as #1 in the world when it comes to engine research.
This technology could also be applied to diesel engines. The crossover passage would just act as an air compressor and the diesel gas would be injected under pressure just before combustion occurs.
The NOx emissions are so much lower it is ridiculous. The BTE is also significantly higher. You could make a diesel engine using this technology that produces less NOx emissions than today's gasoline engines, and it would also be at least as efficient as any of today's diesel engines!
Also, because they're able to utilize an unlimited offset they can line up the point of maximum combusion pressure and the point of maximum torque! This would lead to a huge amount of torque.
Why isn't anyone talking about this technology?! Am I the first person to come across it?
You could also go to www.pat2pdf.org and type in patent number 20040255882 if you still have problems.
"If 2005 is the year of the hybrid, look for 2006 to be the year of the diesel"
Are you presenting diesels as the answer to rising gasoline prices and a deteriorating ozone layer?
Many other diesel enthusiasts subscribe to this idea.
If I heard the claim again that "todays" diesels won't spew nasty soot when they age, won't develop problems, can get 100MPG and that all stations will eventually sell diesel, life with a diesel car is bliss then I wouldn't be surprised.
We've all heard this before from diesel enthusiasts. (Well maybe not the 100MPG part)
Year
after year
after year
after year, and yet diesel cars still blow the same smoke when older, like the nature of the beast.
I think gas-electric and diesel cars are both good alternatives compared to a conventional gasoline car, but neither are the answer.
I hope that in 9 years when I'm in the market to replace my HCH that the "next" form of transportation energy will be along, what ever it is.
If faced with the same choice today...conventional, gas-electric or diesel then hands down gas-electric.
The choice will be clear even then, as I'm stuck in a drive through behind one of "todays" smokey, noisy diesels.
Sometimes I wonder if those drivers are even aware of what is flowing from their tail pipe...or don't care...and if they wonder why the back of their car is always sooty black...
I'm certainly not saying ALL diesels end up that way but many of them do.
It's a new engine. If used with normal gasoline it would produce less NOx emissions than any car out there today, produce much more torque than a normal gasoline engine, and the efficiency would be up there with diesels - meaning the gas mileage would be similar. It would perform better than a hybrid - without the hybrid.
The inherent problem with diesel engines is that because the compression ratio is so high the firing temperature is very high as well - compared to gasoline engines that is. This engine design gives you the ability to fire after top dead center - inherently reducing the firing temperature and solving the inherent problem with diesel engines that you speak of.
This technology could be used with diesels, gasoline engines, gasoline-electric hybrids, or diesel-electric hybrids. In any of the before mentioned cases it would reduce the NOx emissions by 50-80% as well as improve the efficiency by 11-15% above and beyond any other efficiency increases resulting from using an electric hybrid motor or diesel motor or both.
On top of all these advantages this technology could be easily mass produced using the automotive industry's current infastructure. It's still got pistons, connecting rods, etc.
I am not sure where you are when you see all these smoking cars. I cannot remember the last car of any kind here in San Diego that was spewing dirty exhaust. My neighbor has a Jetta TDI that is past 50k miles and I never see any exhaust from his car. You must live in an area with a lot of old MB diesel cars. I followed a 240D MB the other day and was surprised that it was not spewing black. I don't think they have built those for 25 or 30 years. I have never owned a diesel. My wife has owned several MB 300D's over the years and liked them. In fact she switched to the Lexus in 1990 because she could not find a new MB diesel in San Diego. One plus to the diesel that no longer exists is the availability of cheap diesel. They would go down to Mexico and fill up for half the price here in San Diego. Plus diesel did not have the heavy tax it does today.
I've seen the old MB's spewing a huge cloud of black smoke. It seems the newer common-rail diesels don't spew much even on cheap fuel. My '03 Cummins only smokes a bit on cold-starts, and that's on 200ppm truck-stop crud. The 15,000# trailer that follows it around is clean as can be, which tells me very little soot is coming out the pipe. And if climbing the mountains at 75mph with that trailer behind it doesn't brew-up the smoke, I'm not sure what would. Maybe if I threw on a chip that bumped me to 500hp......
I know our gas and diesel is cleaner than many states. My SOCO station has the ECD-1 for a little more than #2 diesel. I use it in my Kubota and it runs nice and clean. BP is somewhat of a leader in the LSD and ULSD market. Any BP or ARCO station that has diesel sells the good stuff. My biggest gripe with gas is that if we had spent the billions trying to make gas clean on diesel research, we would be so far ahead of where we are now. I blame that on CARB, EPA and many environmental groups.
The states still running high sulfur gas are no better off with gas cars than modern diesel. And diesel gives them added mileage and less GHG.
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,66288,00.html/wn_asci- i
PS
Don't try running biodiesel in your HCH :-)
Actually, I like hybrids too. I like any technology that contributes to the goal of giving less $$$ to the middle east terrorists. If hybrids had been a little cheaper, I'd have definitely considered them.
As it is, I got a loaded 2002 TDI Jetta GLS for $11,063 out the door. I'm planning on running at least B20 at first and moving up to B100 gradually.
I have a feeling that most people in the U.S. are like I was. I knew diesels were more fuel efficient, but I assumed it was 20-30% (which, in my mind, would not have been worth the added cost, maintenance, inconvenience of looking for a gas station with diesel, etc. ...of course I also didn't know about biodiesel then...that alone sells it for me).
In actuality, in the case of the TDI Jetta at least it's (comparing 2002 mileage figures for manual-tran Jetta TDI (42/49) vs manual-tran, gas-engine Jettas 2.0L (24/31) and turbo 1.8L (24/31)) it's 42/24 = 1.75 or 75% better. For highway, it's 49/31 = 1.58 or 58% better.
I was quite stunned when I realized that and immediately started looking for one to buy. Volkswagen, would do well to advertise their TDIs more and to include a similar calculation to the above.
.
Anyway, it amazes me that someone can look at a technology that is ~10% more energy efficient (~45% gasoline vs. ~55% diesel), and say "NO WAY" to it. I thought environmentalists were supposed to seek out more energy efficiency (like replacing incandescent bulbs with fluorescent bulbs)??? Why would they say no to a ~10% more efficient engine?
It's incomprehensible.
troy
How does it handle and is it good for passing on two lane roads?
You are giving the gas crowd the benefit of the doubt. If you take the same car, the Jetta and have a gas engine and a Diesel engine. The diesel gets 40% better mileage than the gas. And the gas engine has less torque for passing.
HCH = 8.5
Jetta TDI = 6
Unleaded fuel versus diesel prices:
"The national average price of diesel in 2004 was $1.81 per gallon, 20 percent higher than in 2003."
EPA ratings:
HCH manual tranny: 46/51
VW Jetta TDI: 32/43
So I THINK the "10% efficiency" gets lost by averaging 11 miles per gallon less than the HCH.
.
40% higher MPG does NOT mean 40% more energy efficient, because diesel carries more energy per gallon. +10% is the generally-accepted energy advantage between identical gasoline & diesel engines.
troy
A Civic Hybrid with a diesel engine (like volkswagen's 60hp 4-cylinder), would get 70 miles per gallon on the highway.
And yet, you would say "no way!" to that 65/70 city/highway car. It makes no sense to turn your back on higher energy efficiency.
troy
This is why a "diesel hybrid sedan" is the best compromise, until Fuel Cell vehicles come along.
But there are none of these. So right now, gas hybrid is the most effective choice for MPG.
I have two young kids, and I'm NOT going to put dirty diesel exhaust in their lungs.
If someone can show me a TRULY CLEAN diesel hybrid that gets 60-70 MPG in the "less than $25K" price range, I might look. But so far, there is no such car.
.
What??? It DOES convert to MPG. The gasoline Jetta only gets 28mpg. The diesel gets 43. That's +15mpg!
A Civic Hybrid with a diesel engine (like volkswagen's 60hp 4-cylinder), would get 70 miles per gallon on the highway... that's +20mpg over the gasoline version.
troy
If you refer to my previous post, I was comparing the Jetta TDI to the HCH, not a gas Jetta to a diesel Jetta.
Who cares about what a gas Jetta does? This is a forum to compare hybrids versus diesel.
Did you mean Civic Hybrid with diesel/electric set up, or a Civic diesel? If latter, UK gets both (Civic Hybrid and Civic Diesel), the hybrid edges out the diesel in fuel economy and GHG emissions (UK does not care for pollutants, just GHG, so I have no pollution ratings).
If true there, why would it be any different here?