Jeep Liberty Diesel

nescosmo

I think that after we get the new ulsd fuel things are going to change. DCX made a lot of money with the crd and I do not think that they will let this go. Maybe 2007 will stop but when vm motori get the new engine for 08 they will be back. Remember they double the amount on sale, it is just a set back,- maybe- but in reality no body knows what DCX will do in the next month or two. I am glad that I bought a crd I am one of the few, I will learn how to fix it and I will keep it until it rust out.

siberia

my crd 2005 march build has never had a re flash thirteen thousand miles dealer says doesn't need one what do you think

I agree with your dealer, Synlubes. If it ain't broke don't fix it! Even when CRDs are broke DC can't seem to fix them. Unless I get a "Bring it in or your warrantee is void" no one is touching mine except me for basic maintenance. Or, it has to act up for more than 1 tank full so I am sure it's not a fuel problem. March build,also.

bvcrd

I'd get it done. Wait! I already did and nothing was wrong with my 2006. The key word is durability. It has been proven that these things had a minor software flaw. Maybe yours hasn't shown up yet do to the way you drive or for whatever reason. Maybe it will show up right after it is out of warranty. You can't just bury your head in the sand and hope it doesn't happen to you. Things never quite work out the way you hope.

dieselfumes1

Okay, Here's the latest. After waiting a full day for the Dealer to locate a replacement CRD engine. I decided to contact VM (these are a wonderful, wonderful folks that care deeply about their engines and customers). VM stepped in and convinced Chrysler that yes indeed they did ship unrelated parts instead of a new CRD engine.

Finally, after many phone calls to convince Chrysler they made a mistake. MOPAR shipping reached out to VM to fill the order.

So, it looks like I will be getting a new engine due to VM and their stellar support.

Now, I have my fingers crossed the Dealership can put this engine in correctly, reinstall the radiators, sensors, fuels line and hoses (this is the first time they have done this!) and line-up the sheet metal the way it came from the factory, etc. Remember this is a brand-new Jeep with less than 1000 miles and only a couple of weeks old.

Throughout all of this...I still have not heard from the DCX District Rep or have anyway to contact him! As I told the Dealership Service Manager...I am convinced it would be easier for me to get a one-person audience with the Pope that speak to the Chrysler District Rep.

Stay tuned!

dieselfumes1

I am certain there will be a demand for 05 and 06 CRD (new or used) with the high cost of fuel. As long as the price remains high any vehicle with decent mileage with room for four adults and capability to tow a boat or trailer will be in demand.

DCX is committed to Diesels...this is the message from the top management throughout the company. DCS is coming out with a Diesel for the Grand Cherokee next year based on their new Bluetech technology.

According to VM, Diesel Liberties are being produced in record numbers (over 500,00 Diesel engines worldwide).

farout

synlubes: Nice to talk with you about three weeks ago on the phone. I would say your dealer is way off base. Call the 1 800 992 1997 and ask them, I am very sure they can at least help. Or why don't you call Overland Park Jeep it's in Kansas and a good sized Jeep dealer the phone # Is 913 381 8100. The service manager is pretty knowledgeable. I have talked whit him several times. He could tell you for sure.

Farout

tired_old_dave

I still have my vtdog recommended box of gloves under my drivers seat. If you are zach in michigan, I'm glad you enjoy such friendly, clean places to fuel up. Paper towels for the windows, toilet paper in the indoor mens room, what next. Not trying to be smart but there are places unlike your civilized location.

steve05

They may be cancelling the CRD for the Liberty, but the Jeep website clearly advertises that there WILL be a diesel Wrangler in 2007 for export only. (Europe and South Africa) It only makes sense that it will be the same engine. If it would have been available here I would have waited until this fall and gotten the ragtop!

vtdog

Dave,

I'm just happy if the clerk does not drool on the money I get back in change

ecraman

You will probably need a new one because the fluid is cooking. I do not know if it can be saved. One day it refused to shift. New transmission has been perfect.

zachinmi

I guess I'm just lucky. Never thought of Michigan gas stations as unusually civilized, but what I describe isn't unusual here. In fact I am surprised the one in twenty times when there aren't paper towels in the dispenser (diesel mitts are far less common). I guess I will pack a roll of towels for my summer road trips!

On a related note, I have found zero correlation between the price of fuel and the cleanliness or amenities of a gas station. Some of the cheapest stations around here are also the cleanest and nicest. It pays to shop around, at least here.

mdamick

How many of you have had trouble getting parts for your CRD?
Mine is in the shop now for a fried electric cooling fan. It is on national backorder along with a lot of other people wanting the same part.
It took 2 months to get a pipe that feeds the EGR cooler last time, Although I could drive it while I waited.
I do have a loaner, but it doesn't get very good mileage and needs shocks.
I like my CRD but in 54 weeks it has been in the shop for about 4 of them.

farout

steve05: Any diesel that will be in a jeep will be the Bluetec by MB. The big issue us the liquid that is kept in a tank that works with the Cat converter. They say it will going into the dealer to fill it back up. Big concern is that drivers will attempt to drive it when it's dry. No word on the cost to refill it. Overland Park Jeep says it will be late Dec. 06 before we see them. Yes the CRD will be used in Europe and other places in the world. It's to bad the US can't agree that this diesel is far better than the gasoline.

Farout

budsjp

Any ideas on this problem? I have almost 12k on a 5/05 born CRD and have loved it except... Over the last few months, I have experienced momentary engine cutting out while driving; the check engine icon comes on but the motor keeps running. After 2 or 3 normal restarts, the icon goes out so I thought it was catalitic related. Until Monday. It happened 4-5 times in a 90 mile trip, the last time the engine died completely. I finally got it restarted and limped to a dealer (a mile away). Picked it up today, dealer said it was electronic and they had done a tsb 18-013-02 Rev. A and said it was fine now. It was, for about 75 miles, then did it again (ie., momentary stoppage of the engine). I was close to home and made it without further incident. The question is what do I do in the morning (not really wanting to go 90 miles to that dealer). Any thoughts will be appreciated.

farout

dieselfumes1: I have had the same great experience with V M Motori. When I asked about Bio fuel and what weight of oil I should use, they sent me 9 pages of information. I was so pleased. They seem to me to be a company that genuinely wants pleased customers. I think DCX is just dumb as a door knob if they do not get V M Motori to get an diesel that will make the emissions standards for 2008. 2007 is a lost cause, but 2008 is possible if enough CRD owners write CDX. I have not had any problems, if that's any encouragement for you. I have had all the Tsb's done and each one as made some improvement. I sure wish you well in getting your working.

Farout

mdamick

Is it the engine dying-lack of power?
Is it maybe the transmission disengaging?

budsjp

Thanks for the reply. It's the engine dying- rpms drop off momentarily except the last time Monday when the engine died completely.

mdamick

I just looked at the MB website.
Using their figures if the vehicle had a 1 gal tank it would need to be refilled every 20 tanks of fuel. Europe is planning on putting it at the filling stations costing about $1.80/gal .
Once the vehicles are on the 2nd or 3rd owner odds are the tanks would never get refilled unless they put a computer bug in to prevent it from running right without it.
I am going to stick with my CRD and with my old Cummins. I could put just about anything in the Dodge and it would run.

mdamick

Maybe EGR or air in fuel line.
Have you replace the fuel filter recently?

The sad thing is the only real way to work on these things is with a computer.

budsjp

I'd suggested the EGR to this dealer. I'll contact another (closer) dealer in the morning and have them check both items. The engine light icon should still be on when I get there so perhaps the computer can pick up something. Thanks again.

PS - The local dealer closed about a month ago after the owner was shot dead - still no idea who or why!

massappeal106

farout,

What did VM say about bio fuel?

thanks!

caribou1

massappeal106,
Concerning bio fuel, you can read this:
http://richard.fortin.free.fr/KJ_diesel/Common_Position_Paper_FIE-Producer_0904.- pdf

bvcrd

Could it be that the Torque Converter is locking up and binding and that freezes the engine? I had heard of such cases.

caribou1

Typically if the engine stops with the converter locked, you are in an unpredictable condition for the engine controller.
I would look for a defective power supply (battery lugs or the ecu itself).
If fuel stops arriving at the pump while the engine is in normal running condition, the ecu will detect the "new low rpm condition", try to inject more fuel to keep the requested load (torque) and finally let go the converter when the engine speed comes to a mapped "lowest acceptable value". This specific corrective cycle is stored in volatile memory that cannot be retreived by the obd code reader. The same correction cycle applies while the O/D is on and when you approach a hill.

bvcrd

In ENGLISH please.

caribou1

I'm refering to page 77 of the Bosch publication entitled "Electronic Diesel Control EDC" part# 1-987-722-135
In common language it's tough luck for those who can't understand. This is why I called my controller 'Damocles' a long time ago. I had to buy the recent diesel engine management litterature I could find to understand this system. Now it's clear to me: we're stuck :sick:

bvcrd

Why even take the time to post, if you can't explain in a common lauguage that 99% of us can understand? Instead you say "tough luck!" I'm puzzled.

div2

Why even take the time to post, if you can't explain in a common lauguage that 99% of us can understand? Instead you say "tough luck!" I'm puzzled.

Me too; I must be in that 1%-it's not THAT difficult to grasp...

bvcrd

I am amused at the guys that come on here and other forums and feel the need to boost thereself but quoting big words and technical jibberish.

eebro

I is amuzed at the gize who come on hir and other forums and feel the need to belittle theirselves but cwoting incompleet sentences with duzzens of misspeeled werds not too menchun the lack of commitment to master the english langwich. Scooling shood never stop for a single sole.

div2

I am amused at the guys that come on here and other forums and feel the need to boost thereself(sic) but quoting big words and technical jibberish(sic).

Just because you do not understand a technical explanation does not make it gibberish.

bvcrd

Then enlighten me!!! That is all we were asking in the first place.

bvcrd

I have read some of your posts slamming other members, so I will take that into consideration and refrain from slamming you. Some folks just can't help themselves. I blame a poor childhood for most of it. When you want to get mad at someone, it would be better if one would pause, look at the parents and all is forgiven. I'll do the same for you.

div2

Then enlighten me!!! That is all we were asking in the first place.

Well no, it sounded like you were trying to ridicule anyone who knows what they are talking about. But be that as it may, here's a grossly simplified translation:

Typically if the engine stops with the converter locked, you are in an unpredictable condition for the engine controller.
The engine management system does not "know" how to address that situation.

I would look for a defective power supply (battery lugs or the ecu itself).
Check the battery cables as well as the engine control unit(think "brain") and its harness.

If fuel stops arriving at the pump while the engine is in normal running condition, the ecu will detect the "new low rpm condition", try to inject more fuel to keep the requested load (torque) and finally let go the converter when the engine speed comes to a mapped "lowest acceptable value".
When the engine isn't getting any fuel the engine slows down and the "brain" attempts to compensate by giving the engine more fuel-but there isn't any to give. The converter will remain locked until the engine reaches a preset minimum speed, whereupon the "brain" will unlock the converter.

This specific corrective cycle is stored in volatile memory that cannot be retrieved by the obd code reader. The same correction cycle applies while the O/D is on and when you approach a hill.
After you turn Mr Liberty off his "brain" forgets what happened, and therefore a code reader("brain reader") will not find anything to report.

The same correction cycle applies while the O/D is on and when you approach a hill.
Mr. Liberty will do the exact same thing if you put his transmission in overdrive and make him go up a hill.

tidester

The topic is "Jeep Liberty Diesel." If you want to discuss each other and your personal style then take it to email or some other venue. It may be amusing up to a point but it is very distracting to serious people looking for useful and helpful information.

tidester, host

bvcrd

Not at all. That is the problem with these forums.it is hard to get a feel what is truely being said. I meant that by the "tough luck" sort of thing coming from you, that you were unwilling to share with us troglidites your expertise. I have heard on other forums that the TC locks up at or near a stop sign and kills the engine. Can't get the thing to move. It is like it is in Park. By this time, many filings are visible in the pan, and a TC/tranny replacement is in order

mtb_ga

budsjp -- I had this exact problem a while back. This exact problem and they had to reprogram the computer. There was a bulleting within the jeep support network that informed them of this and they fixed it just fine.

Now I've had about 10 other problems -- let me know if you know of someone that wants a jeep liberty diesel 2005 with about 18K miles. I get great fuel mileage and I'm sure it can be fixed, but I've had several issues that has had the car in the shop for over 20 days in the past year. :lemon:

fishingbuddy

Thanks. I stand corrected on some points. Took the CRD for its first real road trip last week. Experienced problems noted on this group -- rear suspension Banshee wail, and the shuddering, bucking, hesitation in overdrive on the highway.

Tell you what, I was driving from Charlotte, NC to western NJ and desperate. Stopped in mountain region of Virginia and purchased Shell Rotella 5W-40 in a tractor supply store and had a local mechanic change the oil. THAT FIXED THE SHUDDER. Suggestion: if you are doing a lot of highway driving in US, forget the 0W-40 suggestion and go for the 5W-40 Shell Rotella.

As for the "rear suspension banshee wail" (I love that, I'm Irish). What the h*** is that?!!! Seems to occur on damp mornings when Jeep is left out over night. Should I ream the dealer? Never, ever, experienced this with early, gas Liberty. Why does a diesel make rear suspension different?

Thanks,
A reformed and open Fishing Buddy. Y'all are d***ed smart!

farmer52

The reason you see Diesel fuel on the pump handle is Diesel does not evaporate as fast as gasoline. If you want to preserve a metal object, coat it with Diesel fuel. It lasts a good long time!

Try this - get two (2) pans and put Diesel fuel in one and gasoline in the other. See how long it takes for the Diesel fuel to evaporate. Oops, I better be careful someone from the EPA may be monitoring this forum.

eebro

I appreciate your sincerity, bvcrd.

So...did some experimenting with the brakes in relation to the "banshee squall" as someone put it. And, yes, the issue appears to be related to a higher degree of direct linkage of the rotational elements on the vehicle to the unibody structure through the rear suspension. I was able to accelerate a comeupance of glaze on the brake rotors using salt water from a spray bottle. When I applied the brakes for the first time the following morning, the noise from the rear brakes was enormous.

So I got some shims (actually some RTV goo) for the brakes at Autozone and repeated the scenario. The sound could be heard through the windows as if it were some other car, but not through the cabin. There: a quick fix for you guys/gals who are annoyed by direct-coupled brake noise. I can't help those with suspension creak just yet. And you'd think that with all the weight in the Liberty it'd be muted well enough to mask general environmental noise. Nay.

Then there's the tranny shudder issue. I'm now in a quarrel with the shop chief whether it's "real" or if it's that Tourrete's-like foot spasm he's sure I must have. Since the last TSB 18-008-06 application the shudder has been intermittent. I cannot repeat it consistently, much less for the Crassler house. So, until I get lucky (which is really more like uh...unlucky--that I actually have a CRD with this trouble) and it pops like a weasel for the dealer rep riding with me, I'm stuck with this little secret of mine to conspiratorially bring the local Jeep franchise to the attention of the BBB or even a congressional probe.

One problem down and one to go. Hey...I'm actually moderately pleased with the fit and finish of the Liberty for the price. It's functional in its simplicity with throwbacks to the days of virtual iron ore driving down the road. As many on this forum, though, I'm disheartened by the CRD issues some of us have. Why can't we just be friends Mr. Lemerty????

Jones

eebro

Folks,

BTW, I don't recommend RTV for brake shims/isolators. It will not hold up to the caliper pressure and should soon be a drivel of noodles particularly from my application. I did it more to test the theory of the "high strung" suspension connection to the unibody.

Jones

zachinmi

Interesting comment on losing the shudder when you switched to Rotella 5w40. I had both the TSB and an oil change performed at the same time, and specifically asked for Mobil 1 5W-40 rather than 0W-40. I don't know for sure if I got it, but the shudder at 56-58mph seems to be gone since that service. I don't which factor - the TSB or the oil - is responsible.

eebro

bvcrd,

I couldn't get the shop guys at the local dealer to come clean regarding upcoming TSBs. They adamantly deny the existence of TSB# 19-038-05AG. I believe you, but nothing doing over here in MD as yet.

Jones

mdamick

I have been using the Rotella 5W40 since ~8000. Still had the shudder until the tranny croaked.
Still does it, but very intermittently.

I have never had the brake squeal or any rear suspension noise.
I do carry a lot of stuff in the back, maybe it needs to be squished a little.

goodcrd

Be careful about your engine oil. Stay with what is recommended by DC. If I'm not mistaken this engine has a vane type oil pump. Too heavy of an oil will not lubricate the pump properly and it will fail prematurely. Has anyone had the shudder initiating while towing or with a slight load on the engine? If changing to a heavier oil puts a slight load on the engine and lessens the shutter problem, then it definitly is a programming or electrical issue. The sensors and wiring on vehicles don't give the same exact signal back to the ECM on the same vehicle. Electrical components are made to fit within a tolerance range. My CRD has never had the Shudder and I bought it back in 4/05. First question to ask are what inputs control the trans and torque converter. Next what are the values for these inputs at the time of this shudder event. If it is happening at say 55 MPH just after accelerating then with a scanning device hooked up take a ride and take a snap shot or real time print out of the event while driving. Rent the equipment you need or go to a shop and pay the tech 60 bucks for a 30 minute ride. Then start sharing the data collected. The more data the better picture you with get. One more thing Ohm out the circuits from and back to the ECU for each input involved. They should fall into an acceptable range to be valid. The more I read about this the more I believe it is an issue where one of the inputs controlling the trans/converter is falling out of range for the program controlling your trans. Has any of your dealers changed any sensors to try to fix this problem?

caribou1

Well, I'm in a different time (hour) zone over here (GMT+1), and this is why I didn't react rapidly.

The frustration some of you felt reading my 'too technical post' was close to mine (for two years) until I received and understood the content of the training booklets from Bosch.

Now it's clear to me DC assembles possibly the best industrial components on the market and some of us need to visit a Bosch specialty repair shop in case of dealer hesitation. This is simply humain. Our dealers don't have time to learn this different technology.

To make it short and digestable, this engine controller we have takes into consideration all the torque demands from every accessory the vehicle has. This includes the battery charge, the fans, the a/c compressor, the automatic transmission shifting sequence. The highest hierarchical level being the driver, the O/D and safety requirements from ABS, ESP(?) etc..., the controller always knows how much torque is theoretically left. The controller turns off all the equipment that can wait a few secons to give us the feeling of a comfortable drive everytime the driver ask for more power or acceleration.

This is new to me because I used to turn off the a/c to accelerate going uphill with previous cars! This one shares the available energy between all accessories and we don't feel it. It does behave like a brain!

So I'm sorry for those of you who didn't understand my corrected synthax, but be assured I'm your side. Cheer up :shades:

bvcrd

Sorry about getting back so slow. I was on the other forum and posted the latest there but forgot to do it here. There is NO TSB like I said. The tech was screwed up. He did the reprogram by number, which ended in a BA. That is 2 upgrades from the AF that came on my 2006 with a build date of 12/05. Apparently, they go to G, then start over with a new letter, this case being B. The end result is the 18-008-06 TSB. Kind of a round about way of doing things. Anyway, they put a new sticker on the computer to prove this. Sorry for the confusion.

lee06

I recently purchased a 2006 CRD thinking this would be my last vehicle. With the information you are sharing it looks like I have out smarted myself and I won't be able to find parts if the current 2.8 is being discontinued. Has the cancelation of the engine been confirmed by DC? What are the odds of spare parts being available?

caribou1

Please read the post completely and you can refresh your memory here:
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/2549/damocles.html

"tough luck" defines a situation when we loose hand (moneywise), just like Damocles felt unsecure when he saw the horsehair.

In other words we are forced to pay without understanding what's going on. DC is not responsible for this, we are only ingnorant in this domain. Perhaps when buying the next vehicle we should read a bit more to understand what we are buying. To my understanding, this has been kept confidential sofar :surprise:

bvcrd

No worries mate. It will still be made. Just not sold in this country. With over half a million of them world wide, parts will be easy to find. The tranny is still used on other models, so no worries there either. The engine is bullit proof, no worries there. Ball joints, same used on the 3.7. Sleep easy.