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Comments
Farout
www.fivestardealers.com/yark/Jeep/en_us/fivestarsite? and
Steve White Motors at www.fivestardealers.com/stevewhite/jeep/en_us?fivestarsite?
Yark has over 129 Commanders. I have called them on several occasions for information on concerns about the CRD and they also have a Tec that goes bewteen the factory and is very very knowledegable. Both of these dealers will sell at prices that I wish I had known of before I bought mine. I wish you the best, and remember that they have orders placed to run until sometime in July so cahances of you fionding just whatyou want are relly good. Don't give up the good ship Liberty CRD.
Farout
Cheers! LK
The dealer I work with sells at invoice. The dealers you list don't do better than that, do they?
Another problem is that I'm in Houston, Texas. How tough is it to get a vehicle shipped from, say, North Carolina?
I tried everytime/everywhere I could to provocate the transmission shudder and found that while driving around 55 mph without the O/D, the throttle position is just at the beginning of it's travel. Here is where I want to get to:
- In a previous post it was mentionned that the transmission performed well using the O/D. This condition doesn't see the switch of the throttle sensor 'foot off' (0% load) switch.
- I have a cable driven sensor under the hood on my truck that accounts for assembly misalignment or road vibrations.
It's of an older design, but not affected by bumps or nerve contractions of my foot.
- The newer sensor is supposed to be mounted vertically directly onto the pedal according to the manual. Several posts in the past mentionned gas pedals were mounted in a loose way. Couldn't some trucks have a problem of this nature?
The problem you need to be aware of is that sometimes the young guys will beat a new vehicle at 90 mph zigzagging among traffic while hammering the throttle at every opportunity.
Farout
I think you are on the right path, and hold the line with the dealer, if they want your sale they will bend. Good hunting!
Farout
I am hanging in there, and will continue to try to find a CRD that can make it here and will be a doable deal.
Just noted: the TSB was posted on Fri for the work done to "repair" the shuddering. It's TSB Number: 21-009-06 found here: http://www.alldata.com/tsb/Chrysler/1144825200000_1145602800000_21-009-06/index.- html. Mucho parts need replacement including tranny filter, cooler return filter, trans cooler, sump pump, torque converter, and red tranny goo.
This may be premature, but it appears to me the 02/06 build is particularly susceptible to the shuddering from the torque converter lock/unlock issue. The above TSB also requires verification that mods from TSB Number: 18-008-06 (for 2006 KJ) have been exercised.
So, now that I've had all this work done in accordance with both TSB, I still have the shudder. It reared its head the day I picked it up from the last fix on Monday, once yesterday, and one more time a mere 20 minutes ago. Admittedly the shuddering is much less pronounced and self-rectifies (without changing applied force through the drive shaft), but that's riiiillly not good enough for a brand spankin new vehic.
The saga continues, and while the service remains greenback-free, I will continue to push the issue at the local DCX Stealer.
Jones
Jones,
Right now there's 3025 miles on it. I put on 120 miles each day I commute to work. I had the latest TSB (18-038-05) done at 1600 miles, but maybe I should ask them about 18-008-06?
Guess I'm confused about the TSB #'s, as it seems -06 would be the latest one? Maybe my ***** is the one confused?
Lately we simply drive with O/D on above 40 mph and avoid the shudder, until 52 mph when it hits 1800 rpm's again. Fortunately I can move off from that one easier.
Now that vacation is over(spent it at home), we'll be trying to understand this issue better and see what more we can figure out.
Michelle
You must have a late 2005 or early 2006 model (made prior to 21 Nov 2005. The TSB you mentioned (18-038-05) is for such a vehicle and therefore that TSB would be appropriate for your Liberty. TSB 18-008-06 is for all Liberty CRD built prior to 1 Jan 2006, and TSB 21-009-06 for those built prior to 3 Nov 2005.
Mine was built 02/06, but they applied the last two I mentioned here, anyway. If your shop finds a solution shy of C4 and det. cord, I'm eager to hear about it!
Jones
it's a 02/06 build, but could have been last week of Jan 06 as it rolled onto transport 2/3/06. The Shop called it quits, but I'm bringing it back in soon. I haven't driven it for 2 whole weeks yet so would like to spend a little time in it before taking it in again. I'll ask them to do the 21-009-06.
My Husband was curious if the waste gate could be flucuating and causing the stutter? He has a Cummins. I'm clueless on these new vehicles with all the electronics.
I'll be updating anything new as time goes on. I'm thinking on sending in the paperwork to start Lemon law just to get someone to wake up to this issue. I think the more of us who do, the more serious DCX will take this.
Michelle
Fiesty one aren't you.
About the waste gate: just like the application (spin up of the turbo) of pressure into the intake manifold, waste gate pressure release will lag (take some time to effect itself). You'd feel waste gate mis-management in this manner:
(1) Michelle floors the CRD.
(2) Michelle braces herself for an eventual tug in the seat.
(3) The tug comes on strong and Michelle starts smiling and singing along with her Sirius broadcast of The Cure.
(4) That smile is soon erased when Michelle finds the steering wheel looking her square in the face. No more pulling on the steering wheel please! How did that thing creep up on me????
(5) Michelle ends up pushing away from the steering wheel to stay erect.
(6) Michelle feels the tug come up again and it pushes her back against the seatback. What is this...a smooth bucking bronco? And what's that whistling and wheezing?
(7) Uh oh...here comes the steering wheel again....geez.
Essentially, between steps 3 and 4, the intake pressure drops to the point where the engine functions as if it were naturally aspirated because the waste gate opened. Then, step 6 is a closed waste gate; 7 is open again. The result is a considerably reduced moment in time of acceleration, which will have the driver over-compensating for erect posture (where posture is usually established subconsciously once you are accustomed to a vehicle's mannerism. It's like when you drive a stick and you--the driver--are the only one in the car not swaying back and forth when you shift gears because you expect the accel when you apply it.) The acceleration magnitudes are potentially hundreds of milliseconds in length and come on moderately slow/strong.
This tranny issue we're experiencing sends a rapid, pulsating jolt with durations below 100 millisecond. It pulses through the entire vehicle with a much higher transient response than the turbo/waste gate system could hope to achieve. This kind of thing your and my CRD are both exhibiting is a result of problems in the application of torque in the main drive train where a great deal of it is mismanaged no wait, yes...no..yes...no. Get me outta this 55 mph zone!
___________
I hope you find the little story here informative and humorous and not condescending or mocking. That is my intent.
More later!
Jones
Sure would be nice to be able to drive in that 1800 rpm range though. Although I am averaging 25 mpg, with 1/3 of the commute being city driving (+ up hill 1/3 way home). Has your mpg decreased as a result of the shudder as others have noted?
M
I just filled up after the first full tank of diesel and calculated 17.5 mpg for the Jones CRD. pffffft. I haven't driven faster than 65 mph and it's been 100% stop and go driving. Plus, the dealer put 75 miles on it during this fuel interval. Who knows how the shop fellas operated it...
I have no idea if the presence of the shuddering also means the CRD is under poor fuel management. I now have 420 studdering, puttering miles on this puppy, and only a copious amount of testing/time will evince that. Once I get it out on the highway for a stint and keep it out of the shop, I should be able to get a better reading on fuel economy.
Do note that operating at a lower rpm at the same speed does not necessarily constitute better operating efficiency than a higher rpm run. If the engine is under sufficiently greater load at the lower rpm (assuming equal torque at the higher and lower ranges) it will consume more fuel per mile. You'll end up pushing more atomized fuel through the cylinder albeit at a lower frequency than a modest amount of fuel at a higher rate. Unfortunately, I do believe the highest torque rating (most efficient operating condition of a piston engine) is ~1800 rpm for the 4-cylinder diesel engine, so this will be the point at which fuel consumption is most miserly under computer-managed (TCM/ECM) drive-train circumstances. I don't know what the torque curve looks like, however, and it may not decrease much between 1800 and 2500 rpm, which would explain your good fuel mileage, nonetheless.
ramble ramble.
Jones
Confused! LK :confuse:
http://www.jeep.com/crd/index.html
Woops...you are correct, which makes my Michelle-waste-gate story even more farcical! A waste gate isn't even present on the CRD. So, forget the whistling and wheezing part.
Having said that, though, Variable Geometry Turbos do experience similar results from mismanagement problems so that some failure patterns in the story would be similar. Plus with greater design complexity, VGTs exhibit a broader range of failures over their fixed vane counterparts.
One thing I noted on our CRD is the intercooler feeder is a soft-walled rubber hose. This, combined with the enormous distance between turbo and intake plenum ensures the lag improvements via the VGT are partially abated. That's because of the sheer volume of air that must be compressed to the required psi prior to opening the intake valves. I understand the need for the intercooler, and the soft hose would be the safeguard for pressure impulses as well as movement buffer between engine and intercooler. That's a reasonable trade, it seems--increased component longevity and modest engine performance.
Anyway, thank you for the correction, Anomious.
Jones
Jones
Mine has a build date of 10/05,and while I have had little trans shudder if any, I am interested in improving reliability for both the transmission and the glowplugs. Can the TSB 18-038-05 AG can do this without lowering mileage or otherwise mess with driveability? I really love the way my CRD drives, and the mileage is great for a heavy box. Please let us know what differences you notice in the re-flash. Thanks!
Tom.
I really enjoy my CRD Liberty and have no complaints and have all good stuff to say. Two weekends ago I drove the Liberty from Northern Virginia down to VA. Beach. 31.9 miles to the gallon and with the air conditioner low! I used premium Shell diesel and the outside temp was around 85 degrees. The Liberty has just over 9K miles on it and I think the engine has finally broken in. The ride seemed to be smoother with the warmer weather (tires warmed up?). I do believe that the CRD Liberty loves warmer exterior temps. I have the OED racks on top for a bike. They look great with the polished aluminum. I was thinking of the getting the kayak rig as well but did not want the top to look like a circus. My next trip will be to the outer banks of North Carolina and driving on the beach. I am looking to get a tow hook for the rear just in case.
Cheers,
crddude.
Michelle
The storage slot gives access to a fixing screw for the console. If you are tall, try using the space next to the speedometer (right hand side). The efficiency of the defroster air flow is not much affected there, and you can use a small bracket pinched between the windshield and the rubber grommet running along the dashboard. I've mounted a compass there
Now for your question. The exact build date is on the window sticker and the month and year is on the drivers door, or you can call 1-800-992-1997 and get it. If you have the window sticker, down at the bottom left where the VIN is printed out follow it across past the L4 Von and the next little fore numbers are the build date, for example mine says 0614. You can call your dealer and the service dept can run your vin and tell you also.
Proberly you are looking at your oil and saying this is the dirtiest oil I have ever seen. That's how it's to look if it's doing the job. The oil can be used until 12,250 miles, although I don't think that's a good idea. I changed mine at 9,000 miles, and next time I will most likely do it at 18,000 miles. I only added 1 quart at 3,800 miles. I have not used any in 3,300 from the last oil change. I am seriously considering using 5-40 mobil 1 next time. I have used the 0-40 last time, and as it gets hot in the summer, I think that will add to the oil some lubercating properties. Or at least I think so.
What color is your jeep? Ours is that Deep Beryl Green. The mud and dirt sorta blend in pretty well. It seems like we have either gone for silver, or white in the past, so we broke the pattern.
I am not positive but I think June 1st all diesel will be B-5, which I think will be good. These darn oil producing countries have is by the billfold. Well good Jeeping!
Farout
I solved that problem by buying a pack of food service gloves (like you see in fast food places). They are cheap and you only need one per fill up. No odor gets on your hands with the use of the gloves
So, here we go...another week waiting for the engine.
So far, I am very fortunate not to have some of the problems others in this forum have had. I feel that we have paid a large price to have the CRD, and in reality we have been a test market. I wonder how difficult parts will be to get after say 5 or 6 or even 8 or 9 years down the road.
For you that have or had problems this might be a serious issue. When I called DCX today they said they could not say that they were or were not going to make a CRD in 2007. I think DCX does not want this known because it just might result in loss of sales for the 2006 CRD's still sitting on the lot.
As a good will jester DCX should offer a special rebate for those who bought a CRD, to be used on the next purchase of a new Jeep.
Like I said I am fortunate up until now (12,400 Miles) not to have had any problems, thank the Lord.
Farout
When you add to your problems the fact that they are not making any more CRD's for 2007 in the liberty, would totally launch me into orbit with the CRD you have. I sure hope this gets resolved soon for you.
Farout
Otherwise I just grab a paper towel from the window-washing area and use that to hold the pump handle.