Jeep Liberty Diesel

caribou1

I've been using the low sulfur and ultra-low sulfur fuels from day1. This made no difference, my egr valve went as well.
All I can say is with my valve stuck in the closed position, the VM turns out to be a wonderful engine that purrs like a lion and pulls like a bull

winter2

Dave,

I do not think using either oil would make DCX angry. These oils far exceed what DCX requires in this engine so I do not see a problem using them. And since they spec out closely to the Mobil 1 5W-40, I again, see no problem in using them.

Would I switch to RedLine if I had equal access, probably not. I have used both and have been satisfied with the performance of both, but I have used Amsoil products for a much longer period of time and am more comfortable with them. If I were driving a high performance gasser, then I might tend toward RedLine as their oils tend to be designed for such.

I like the Amsoil 15W-40 for several reasons.

1. Their oils are plant based and come from somewhere in this hemisphere and not the middle east.
2. The viscosity range is narrower than a 5W-40 so fewer viscosity improvers are needed.
3. The vaporization rate of Amsoil and RedLine are right around 6.5% or less, so that does away with the need for a Provent, and keeps sludge formation at bay.
4. It is a CI-4+ oil (like some 5W-40) and thus ideal for diesels with EGR valves.
5. Fuel economy is unchanged, but the engine idle seems smoother and quieter.

Now, I have done a bit more research and have discovered that there should be no oil leaking past the seals in the turbo. If there is, you have a problem. If there is oil in the intake side, then there are several possible issues here.

1. Engine was over filled with oil.
2. Bad PCV
3. A restriction in the oiling system
4. Clogged oil return holes/lines in the head.
5. A messed up CCV system.
6. A bad seal(s) on the turbo.
7. Crappy oil with a high vaporization rate.

mike6206

Right now, I'm using Mobil Delvac 1 5w40 in my '06 CRD and I am thinking of swtiching to the Rotella T synthetic, simply because of not only cost but the availability of it here vs. the Mobil Delvac 1. Can anyone tell me if this oil is a success or failure? Please let me know.

prairiegirl

Proud owner of a '06 Liberty. Just had it in for a "software recall." 2000 miles now and it runs beautifully. Hopefully, that will continue. :-)
Some have been talking about the day their car was built. How do I tell when mine was built?

bhcs111

I have been using NAPA gold filters. Parts counter guy likes me and gets me a good price. I think the reason behind the tight fitting plug has to do with an aluminum pan and after heating and cooling it just gets tighter. I don't think I would anti seize. I have had farm tractor oil plugs that I thought I would never get out, but with a little farmer know how I have gotten them loose. I stopped buying the D/C filters because of the price. I have never been a fan of Fram filters. They don't have the best filtering properties.

nescosmo

STB.... If you love your CRD don't use fram filters, use wix # 51516 or go to Autozone and buy an STP filter or buy mobil 1 filter #211 those filters are the best for your CRD. If you like to go different then buy CM filter or trasko filter. The thread of the filter is 3/4x16, that is very common for filters, ford and others use it as long as the canister is 3-1/2" wide you could use any length you like up to 6 or 7" long... Enjoy.

tired_old_dave

Thanks again.

Your strong feeling about their petroleum vs our plant oils, has always stayed with me. However, I think I'm leaning towards Redline. Reviewing the technical properties and trying to jog my memory, I think redline 15w40 may not have any viscosity improvers in it. And that old Canadian article stays with me. And purchase price can always be found lower or negotiated lower.

Engine was only overfilled at delivery because the silly mechanic believed the dipstick. My full is on the M of Min. Wrong viscosity oil required yes, 18k+ miles of 0w40. (6K+ of 5w40.) Never had a problem with mobil 1 in a gas car or truck. And I should've follwed you sooner to the higher side.

We have always erred on the side of caution concerning turbo cool down time. I believe our turbo is fine for now considering what was in the exhaust and the ccv crud it pushed.

And finally, it does hurt to drain perfectly good oil every 6500 miles because of Shedule B. And speaking of that, it is time to do the difs again. And again I did not take the atf-rtv the parts list shows but the gear lube rtv (preferred by more mechanics) for them.

allan_j

I'm using OEM filters. I bought a "6-pack" off E-Bay for $7 each incluing shipping.

winter2

Whatever your choice, RedLine or Amsoil both are great products in my view.

As to viscosity improvers, both have them to some degree or another because the natural viscosity of the base stock only goes so far. The amount of additional material (additives) is very small in both cases.

My dislike for Mobil products is for political reasons mostly but also because their products have high vaporization rates.

As to oil drain intervals, that is a personal choice. I drain every 5 to 6 K miles with synthetic. Granted, the oil might still be good, but I prefer not to find out how far I can push the oil. Early on I learned that oil and filters are cheap insurance. I have never had oil failure related issues and am not about to have one now.

tired_old_dave

Thanks,
Found some discounted redline less than $8 qt for 13 qts.
But may not ever need it. Bought the adapter and fumoto to keep oil out of the skid plate at oil change but finally with many hours of thinking my light bulb lit up and I think I have a solution but it too may be unnecessary.

Got underneath to check my idea for an oil change and found dirty half dried oiled on the skid. Removing the engine factory "skid?" - the lightweight one. Drips of oil and a wet spot in the sound insulation. Monday it is going in for that and to check the tranny performance - two times recently having to push the accelerator because of this traffic - the rpms went to redline but the crd did not advance. Might as well check the balljoints while they're at it - seems to be getting sloppy as well as long overdue needing those kyb's.

Doing vehicle research and shopping and if we are not too much upside down this may be a great used vehicle for someone else. This would be a great vehicle if it had good parts well built and a better front end design. Something tells me though we will be stuck with this maintenance pig and love/despise it for a long time.

farout

olegrizz: I respect the others advice given you, but I have what I believe is a better response. I e-mailed V M Motori and askes them about the oil and changes etc. They said these engines are essentially broke in and cleaned out before they are installed in any vehicle. They do not suggest changing oil until 6,250 miles. They strongly said not to use any synthetic oil above 10-40, and 5-40 is best, but DCX says 0-40w is what they feel is best. Every Jeep dealer I have called , including Yark Chrysler Jeep, the largest dealer of Jeeps in the USA, their head diesel TEC said stay with the 0-40. This is because the bearings and their moving parts are such very close tolerances it needs oil as quick as it can get there. I personally have debated going to Rotella 5-40 because it's easier to get here. But the dealer stocks Mobil 1 0-40. Wal-mart can do an oil change for $45. US. The dealer charges $92. US and I am not sure what I will do for my next oil change. I change my oil at 8,000 to 9,000 miles. This is how and why I do this and it's up to you what you feel is best. You just might read the Owners manual if you have not already done so.

Farout

lovemycrd

I have a 05 CRD with a Trailer Towing package (right from the factory). This comes standard with (as you know) a 7-prong plug for your trailer. The whole system is wired, from front to back with the wiring needed to electric trailer brakes. Crawling under the dash to find the plug-in connector (that larger Dodge vehicles are shipped with), guess what “Not Equipped”. Jeeps don’t have this plug, even on Class 3 equipped Commanders. I am trying to get a wiring diagram from a couple of Eng, I work with but I figured this might be faster. Has anyone installed an Electric Trailer Break controller on his or her Jeeps?

playgabe

I installed a prodigy brake controller on my 05 liberty crd. The wire u want is red coated and it's located behind the left side of the drivers panel. (In the area behind the hood release lever). Took me a while to find it.
I called my Jeep dealer and talked with the tech. He had no clue! Good luck.

siberia

It may be worth the try to ask a technician to enlarge an egr valve guide with a reamer

What you suggest, Caribou1, seems quite reasonable given the construction of the EGR valve. The electrical component is enclosed providing a static air buffer on the servo side of the control shaft perhaps allowing for more clearance than originally intended without affecting the servo too much. The passage and the shaft in the valve were covered with a very thin layer of soot. I think it would take a very long time to actually plug up the valve with soot build-up from a good engine. The old valve must be sent in to verify the warrantee work, according to the parts guy, so I didn’t get to keep it.

It may not be necessary to adopt a driving style that will blow out the valve. However, it might do a lot of good to adopt a driving style that frequently causes the valve to move through a full range of travel. Inlet air temperature implies that running at around 2,400 rpm in 3rd gear under a light load fully opens the valve and running wide open under a heavy load closes the valve. Hence, “blowing its nose” may be beneficial due to the movement of the valve. Range of load may be more important than duration of load.

The replacement EGR valve may already have additional clearance or a more powerful servo and be much more dependable. Once out of warrantee we certainly have some options including cleaning the valve assembly and increasing clearance on the shaft.

Just some thoughts from Planet Amoeba.

caribou1

The cleaning procedure provided by Renault says that the stem must be cleaned and the valve must be activated several times to make sure it travels over the complete range. There is nothing about the quality of the seating of the valve over the communication port between exhaust and intake.
I think the perfect valve should have a metal bellows to isolate a clean length of the stem, but in case of damage metal parts from this bellows would be sent into the engine.
A more powerful servo might just differ the time of seizing if some kind of cleaning cannot be done :confuse:
Someone could perhaps program a "self-cleaning sequence" that the ECU would execute once a week?
Another aspect of "blowing the valve" when it's sitting open is that the temperature of the valve increases and thermal expansion of the guide certainly helps freeing the stem. This is how I understood it.
You mentionned "a very thin layer of soot", I believe the thickness of the soot corresponds to the play between stem and guide.

siberia

I followed the Jeep to and from the dealership. On the way to the dealership, the exhaust was absolutely clean, even on hard take-off. On the way home, the exhaust was dirty blowing black smoke on take-off. Over the last 10k miles the exhaust cleaned up and mileage improved a little. I attributed that to extended break-in. I now think the valve was incrementally losing travel until I failed to open causing the fault code. I can now produce the same amount of black and brown smoke as when the vehicle was new. :confuse:

smokinclatter

I just got my CRD out of the dealers shop. Check engine light had come on and after the light came on the engine would give a noticable vibration as it shut off. I don't remember it doing that before ( 16,000 miles ). This is the 2nd EGR and the 1st turbo replaced. 3 1/2 weeks in shop this time.
PLEASE tell me if your CRDs have a noticable shake or vibration when you turn the key off.

new2diesel

Those of you who have had the EGR's replaced, did the dealer change out the coolant at the same time? Also does anyone know how much it will cost to replace the EGR once the warranty is gone? I am concerned that we are stuck with a defective design which we will have to repetively fix at our own expense post warranty. I am so glad I choose the 05 over the 06. The deciding factor for me was the 7/70 warranty on the 05. I suspect DCX knew this thing was a black hole thus the reason for going with the shorter warranty in 06. A few more trips to the dealer and this puppy goes on the block. I like it but am not willing to get stuck with an obsolete money pit just because I like the vehicle.

new2diesel

Only a slight shake for less than a second as the engine dies out. Nothing I would call abnormal or irritating. Actually I never paid any attention to it until you mentioned it. I have found with this vehicle that there are all kinds of strange noises, vibrations and quirks. If you are hypervigilent it will drive you crazy. I have come to accept all this because it keeps running. I now do what I used to ridicule some of my past girlfriends about - just turn up the radio and drive it - you'll be very happy until it just stops one day. Hopefully that day is a long way off!

zachinmi

I agree 100%. I'm getting more concerned about the EGR valve the more posts I read. I have a 2005 and therefore 7/70 warranty, but I don't know that I want to plan on EGR replacements every 15-20000 miles.

Is there anyone who has over 20,000 miles and is still on the original EGR valve? If so, what are your driving habits and fuel source?

smokinclatter

That's what I am talking about.....the shake is quick as it stops. But it didn't seem to do that before the 2nd check engine light episode. The "hypervigilence" is from knowing we are the test dummies for this car and the dealerships aren't even training more people to work on them. I would like to get all things taken care of during the warranty period. Problem also is that the limited techs aren't even sure if there is something wrong.

zachinmi

Exactly the same for mine. In comparison, my Ram/Cummins shakes big time as it's shutting down. My understanding from a post here (possibly Caribou1) is that the strange throttle body on our CRD engine has the incidental effect of making shutdown smoother than it would otherwise be (diesel engines don't normally have or need a throttle body - I guess it is somehow related to the EGR system on ours).

alljeep

I agree 100%. I'm getting more concerned about the EGR valve the more posts I read. I have a 2005 and therefore 7/70 warranty, but I don't know that I want to plan on EGR replacements every 15-20000 miles.

Is there anyone who has over 20,000 miles and is still on the original EGR valve? If so, what are your driving habits and fuel source?

The EGR valve is NOT covered by the 2005 7/70 warranty, only the basic 3/36. That 2005 7/70 warranty is for specified drivetrain components only.

(It would be really awesome if someone could prove me wrong, but several dealers have sourced my '05 owners manual to prove me wrong )

caribou1

Welcome aboard.
Clean exhaust and no smoke is what we can expect from a modern diesel that burns practically all it's fuel and has no egr valve. This is my case right now and I have 75,000 Km on it.
When you have a working egr system, it chokes the engine when the mixture gets too lean and thus produces the black smoke. This is also a penalty for mileage.
You're not yet familiar to this, but the most sophisticated recent cars over here pour out that nasty smoke :sick:
The next Blue Tec systems may even add a gargle and "burrrp" sound just after turning off the engine because we will have liquid ammonia in the catalyser; "burp". This may even make a few people feel more at ease :P

thomasw

I believe that federal law requires manufacturers to cover / warranty emissions components for 10 / 100,000, and the EGR valve is certainly an emission component.

As for the oil discussions, I believe that this basic engine dates back at least to the early-1990's, and further believe that there was no such thing as 0-weight oil back then ... so I have to believe that it was initially designed at least for 5-40.

budman6

New to diesel,

I had rough turn off and a clicking sound that continued even after the key was removed. I took it right to the dealer and showed them what was happening and after checking it out they said it was EGR. This was at 12000 miles. after several weeks they still did not have a replacement and told me to bring it in and they had a software fix. It worked. Now I have the shudder at about 53 mph and a hesitation in the engine off idle.

smokinclatter

Never mind......the check engine light came back on. Like I said....it was in the shop for the 2nd EGR at 16k miles for 3 1/2 weeks.......I drove it for all most 1 day and it needs to go back in. :lemon:

winter2

After reading the "shutdown" postings, I gave some thought to how my first diesel, a 1981 Isuzu I-Mark use to stop. It was a 1.8L naturally aspirated engine and when I shut it down, the whole car shook a little bit for about 0.5 seconds and that was that. My '05 CRD shuts down more quickly and more smoothly than the old Isuzu did, but there is still the sensation of some shaking.

Interesting issue with the EGR. I have 10.4K miles on my CRD with the original EGR still in place. Runs fine, no smoke. Do use a good cetane improver/injector detergent combination along with 15W-40 CI-4+ rated oil. Go figure.

siberia

I'm not sure that 10.4k miles on the original EGR valve means that much, Winter2. I had 22K miles on the original EGR valve and was into 3rd tank of fuel with cetane improver when the failure occurred. I'm not saying the cetane improver caused the failure, but it apparently didn't prevent the failure either. I used no additives prior to the last 3 tanks.

Maybe using cetane improver from the start keeps the engine cleaner and the valve will not fail or go longer. Maybe using cetane improver after not using it releases carbon that sticks the valve. I donno. Maybe nothing.

synlubes

my crd 2005 march build has used amsoil 5-40 oil and cetane boost sense new also blew its nose once a week lost egr valve at 16000 miles still love my crd

ke4itn

Has anyone had any success in using the lemon law on the CRD, my 05 has been in the shop 5 times over 30 days total. I think this qualifies it under my state lemon laws. I am thinking of finding a lemon law lawyer. Any advice?

zachinmi

State lemon laws vary widely. Do a google search - there are one or more websites with very comprehensive information for each state. Or search for your particular state and "lemon laws." My home state of Michigan has very weak lemon laws - I'll leave the reason for this to your imagination.

tidester

my 05 has been in the shop 5 times over 30 days total.

What was/is the problem?

tidester, host

winter2

Synlubes,

I would have stayed with the Amsoil 5W-40 if the formulation had not been changed to make VW TDI owners happy. It was a CI-4+ formulation and is now a CF formulation. If Mobil is recommending a CI-4+ oil for the CRD and the big domestic diesel engine manufacturers recommend a CI-4+ oil for EGR equipped engines, then I will use the 15W-40 from Amsoil.

diesel_farmer

I have 14k miles on my '06 Jeep Liberty CRD and have been using (6k mile interval) Castrol Syntec 5W-50 w/ Purolator PureOne PL25230 due to the hot tempertures here in Florida. My F350 Power Stroke uses 15W-40, and I couldn't see putting 0W-40 in the Jeep as it doesn't get that cold here in Florida, and I think the high end heat protection is the more important factor.

Here is the Castrol website link.

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_- - assets/downloads/p,q/pds_syntec_usa.pdf

The Mobil 1 website gives the following recommendation for the 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD:

Link: http://www.mobil1.com/usa-english/motoroil/car_care/which_oil/WhichOilManualResu- lts.aspx?option=1

Current Vehicle:
Year: 2006
Make: Jeep
Model: Liberty
Engine Type: 4cyl. 2.8Liter Turbo

Mobil 1 5W-30
A fully synthetic motor oil, Mobil 1 5W-30 with SuperSyn Technology, is the approved and the first choice of many premium car manufacturers, including Corvette.

synlubes

i am changing to amsoil series 3000 5-30 probably the best oil out there with wear better than any forty weight on the market

diesel_farmer

Has anyone used Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 in their Jeep Liberty CRD. Researching the Mobil 1 website I came across it. Never saw it on the store shelfs. Meets CI-4 Plus.

http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Turbo_Diesel_Truck_5W-40- .aspx

soxcloud

If you are waiting to take a look at the 2007 Liberty CRD you many want to check out this link (Jeep Liberty's diesel era coming to an end). The point seems to be that Chrysler is going to drop the CRD for 2007 on in favor of a Mercedes diesel and matching transmission.

diesel_farmer

Jeep kills diesel Liberty in U.S.

Tougher emission regulations cited as reason popular version of compact SUV is going extinct.

Josee Valcourt / The Detroit News

While DaimlerChrysler's Jeep brand is touting its plan to build a Grand Cherokee with a fuel-efficient diesel engine, the automaker quietly ended production of a successful diesel version of its Jeep Liberty SUV for the U.S. market.

The reason? The engine for the compact SUV doesn't meet tougher federal emissions standards that go into effect next year, and Chrysler said it wasn't cost-effective to the replace the engine with a more modern version.

"The emission standards are becoming very stringent, and we weren't able to make a credible business case for a limited production vehicle," Chrysler spokeswoman Dianna Gutierrez told The Detroit News.

Chrysler's move to stop selling the Liberty in the United States comes despite its success. Liberty sales more than doubled expectations of 5,000 units last year.

In addition, Chrysler has strongly supported diesel engines as a more fuel-efficient option for U.S. drivers. Last week, Chrysler CEO Tom LaSorda touted diesel technology at a meeting of Michigan political, business and civic leaders on Mackinac Island.

LaSorda announced Chrysler will roll out a diesel-powered Grand Cherokee SUV in 2007. Mercedes, Chrysler's sibling division in DaimlerChrysler AG, will make the Grand Cherokee engine.

"This doesn't mean that since we're discontinuing the Jeep Liberty diesel that we're not committed to diesel," Gutierrez said.

She declined to say whether Chrysler will eventually market the Liberty with a more modern diesel engine. For 2007, at least, the Liberty will be available only with a gasoline engine.

The diesel Liberty, which is built in Toledo, will still be sold in Europe, where diesels are far more popular and emission regulations are less stringent.

"Our goal was to test (U.S.) consumer interest in a diesel-powered vehicle and, based on the Liberty diesel, it obviously exceeded our expectations," Gutierrez said.

Dealers are eager to get the diesel Grand Cherokee.

Alan Helfman of River Oaks Chrysler-Jeep in Houston sold 30 to 40 Liberty diesels last year.

"It was a good little seller," Helfman said. "But the Grand Cherokee will sell even better. The diesel in the Grand Cherokee will be utopia, especially since it's a Mercedes diesel."

Italy's VM Motori makes the diesel engine for the Liberty.

Chrysler's decision to end diesel Liberty sales in the United States makes sense given the regulatory environment, said Casey Selecman, an automotive analyst with Farmington Hills-based CSM Worldwide Inc.

Volkswagen will temporarily discontinue diesels in the United States and come back with versions that meet the new emissions standards, Selecman said.

"Everybody's waiting for the diesel fuel quality to change over so that they're able to use future emissions equipment that they can't use right now," he said.

Diesel vehicles account for a small portion of U.S. auto sales, but are expected to grow as high gas prices stoke demand for more fuel-efficient vehicles.

In April, J.D. Power and Associates said light-vehicle diesel sales are projected to grow from 3.2 percent of U.S. auto sales in 2005 to more than 10 percent by 2015.

You can reach Josee Valcourt at (313) 222-2300 or jmvalcourt@detnews.com.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060605/AUTO01/606050348/1148-

nescosmo

Smokin....the engine have a shut down system. If you wait about 60 seconds the EGR valve will close, the ECU will tell it to and then if you turn your key off the shake will not be there. that is how it work. Try it and you will see.

diesel_farmer

Jeep kills diesel Liberty in U.S.

Tougher emission regulations cited as reason popular version of compact SUV is going extinct.

Josee Valcourt / The Detroit News

While DaimlerChrysler's Jeep brand is touting its plan to build a Grand Cherokee with a fuel-efficient diesel engine, the automaker quietly ended production of a successful diesel version of its Jeep Liberty SUV for the U.S. market.

The reason? The engine for the compact SUV doesn't meet tougher federal emissions standards that go into effect next year, and Chrysler said it wasn't cost-effective to the replace the engine with a more modern version.

"The emission standards are becoming very stringent, and we weren't able to make a credible business case for a limited production vehicle," Chrysler spokeswoman Dianna Gutierrez told The Detroit News.

Chrysler's move to stop selling the Liberty in the United States comes despite its success. Liberty sales more than doubled expectations of 5,000 units last year.

In addition, Chrysler has strongly supported diesel engines as a more fuel-efficient option for U.S. drivers. Last week, Chrysler CEO Tom LaSorda touted diesel technology at a meeting of Michigan political, business and civic leaders on Mackinac Island.

LaSorda announced Chrysler will roll out a diesel-powered Grand Cherokee SUV in 2007. Mercedes, Chrysler's sibling division in DaimlerChrysler AG, will make the Grand Cherokee engine.

"This doesn't mean that since we're discontinuing the Jeep Liberty diesel that we're not committed to diesel," Gutierrez said.

She declined to say whether Chrysler will eventually market the Liberty with a more modern diesel engine. For 2007, at least, the Liberty will be available only with a gasoline engine.

The diesel Liberty, which is built in Toledo, will still be sold in Europe, where diesels are far more popular and emission regulations are less stringent.

"Our goal was to test (U.S.) consumer interest in a diesel-powered vehicle and, based on the Liberty diesel, it obviously exceeded our expectations," Gutierrez said.

Dealers are eager to get the diesel Grand Cherokee.

Alan Helfman of River Oaks Chrysler-Jeep in Houston sold 30 to 40 Liberty diesels last year.

"It was a good little seller," Helfman said. "But the Grand Cherokee will sell even better. The diesel in the Grand Cherokee will be utopia, especially since it's a Mercedes diesel."

Italy's VM Motori makes the diesel engine for the Liberty.

Chrysler's decision to end diesel Liberty sales in the United States makes sense given the regulatory environment, said Casey Selecman, an automotive analyst with Farmington Hills-based CSM Worldwide Inc.

Volkswagen will temporarily discontinue diesels in the United States and come back with versions that meet the new emissions standards, Selecman said.

"Everybody's waiting for the diesel fuel quality to change over so that they're able to use future emissions equipment that they can't use right now," he said.

Diesel vehicles account for a small portion of U.S. auto sales, but are expected to grow as high gas prices stoke demand for more fuel-efficient vehicles.

In April, J.D. Power and Associates said light-vehicle diesel sales are projected to grow from 3.2 percent of U.S. auto sales in 2005 to more than 10 percent by 2015.

You can reach Josee Valcourt at (313) 222-2300 or jmvalcourtdetnews.com.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060605/AUTO01/606050348/1148- -

diesel_farmer

Diesel successes pave way for better support

Regulatory consistency will deliver better fuel economy

The Detroit News

Volkswagen's decision to drop half of the diesel engine models it has successfully been selling in the United States is indicative of the inconsistent regulatory environment automakers face here.

Success at the Chrysler Group with the company's diesel Jeep Liberty SUV also has been derailed because of emissions requirements that make the vehicle engine obsolete.

Given the public outcry for fuel-efficient vehicles that will help us reduce our dependence on foreign oil, making it harder to produce diesels in the United States is the wrong direction for public policy.

The government's continued meddling with market demand for cars and trucks has to make auto manufacturers a little nervous about investing millions of dollars into technologies only to be told they no longer meet federal regulations.

"The diesel Liberty exceeded our expectations," says Dianna Gutierrez, a Chrysler Group spokeswoman. "Unfortunately, with the EPA emissions rates becoming stricter for 2007, we were unable to see a credible business case to continue producing that vehicle with the changes that need to be made."

If the government can refrain from reacting to environmental alarmists, who want zero emissions vehicles (but demand they be cheap, too), diesel-powered cars and trucks can significantly improve fuel economy in the United States. If one-third of all vehicles were diesels in 2020, we could save as much oil as is currently imported from Saudi Arabia, according to the Environmental Protection Agency.

Getting there will require that the EPA hold steady on diesel fuel and emissions requirements that went into effect June 1.

The new rules require a 97 percent reduction in the sulfur content of highway diesel fuel to create ultra-low sulfur diesel. When combined with advanced diesel pollution technologies such as those developed by VW and Mercedes-Benz for the Chrysler Group, cars and trucks on the roads will be 90 percent cleaner than current models.

But to get there, automakers must have assurances that the rules won't change again anytime soon.

Diesel technology is a proven winner when it comes to fuel economy. Diesels get up to 40 percent better fuel economy than comparable gasoline engines. And the infrastructure to deliver that fuel already exists or can be added at a fraction of the cost it would take to install enough ethanol pumps or hydrogen fueling stations.

Fortunately, Volkswagen and Chrysler are committed to increasing their production of diesel engine vehicles in the United States. Chrysler will add a diesel Grand Cherokee to its lineup in 2007 and says the turbo-powered V-6 engine can easily be transferred to other models. The Grand Cherokee will be assembled at the Jefferson North plant in Detroit using engines made in Germany.

Volkswagen will modify its diesels and reintroduce the two discontinued models in 2008. That will put a dent in the German automakers slumping U.S. sales, which had rebounded nicely thanks to its diesel offerings.

Stronger support of diesel technologies makes more sense than the hype for hybrids or the euphoria over ethanol. If fuel efficiency truly is the goal, diesels can get there faster than any other technology available today.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060604/OPINION01/606040350&S- earchID=73248612931888

diesel_farmer

Chrysler to roll out diesel Cherokee

The SUV aims to tap success of Jeep Liberty model, growing alternative fuel market.

Josee Valcourt / The Detroit News

Riding on the success of its Jeep Liberty diesel, the Chrysler Group plans to begin selling a diesel-powered Grand Cherokee SUV in the United States early next year.

Chrysler CEO and President Tom LaSorda will outline the plan today in a speech to business leaders at the Detroit Regional Chamber of Commerce Leadership Conference on Mackinac Island.

It's the latest push by automakers to offer alternative fuels in response to the rise in gasoline prices and concerns among new car and truck shoppers about fuel economy. Chrysler has become a major proponent of diesel engines and other fuels in the U.S. market.

"While diesel technology alone can help us become more energy independent, even bigger strides can be made by adding biofuels to the equation, such as biodiesel and ethanol," LaSorda said in a draft of his speech.

The new diesel engine uses advanced diesel technology developed by Chrysler's sister brand, luxury automaker Mercedes-Benz. The new 2007 Grand Cherokee's 3.0-liter common rail turbo diesel engine is based on Mercedes' Bluetech diesel engine technology.

"They're expected to show a diesel that is generally better than what people are used to," said Bruce Belzowski, an analyst with the University of Michigan's Office for the Study of Automotive Transportation. "(Chrysler) was pretty successful with the Liberty and the Europeans have been very strong on diesel."

The diesel Grand Cherokee, the biggest diesel SUV available in the U.S. market, will be assembled at Chrysler's Jefferson North Assembly plant in Detroit starting in the first quarter of 2007.

DaimlerChrysler's first application of the Bluetec diesel technology will be the six-cylinder Mercedes-Benz E30, which enters the market in the fall. The Jeep Liberty is equipped with a different diesel engine made by Italy's VM Motori.

But automakers face stringent federal government emission regulations for diesel engines even though they are more fuel-efficient than gasoline. And some municipalities have banned diesel engines because of harmful emissions.

The Grand Cherokee diesel will have an average fuel economy of 19 miles per gallon in city driving and 23 mpg on highways.

"You get better performance and 25 percent better fuel economy," said Mark Berube, senior manager of Jeep marketing. "From what we've seen in the marketplace out there, customers are ready for this technology."

The Grand Cherokee diesel will meet the Environmental Protection Agency's stricter 2007 emissions standards, but the SUV won't be sold in California, New York, Maine, Vermont or Connecticut, where environmental rules are even tighter.

"It sounds like they're not going to meet the regulatory standards in those states," Belzowski said.

Jack Nerad, editor of the online shopping guide Kelley Blue Book, said sales of the Grand Cherokee diesel will be limited because of the ban on sales in California and New York, which are major new car and truck markets.

The automaker could also face a roadblock with American consumers who still perceive diesel engines as smog-producing parts. Sooty, smelly and noisy are descriptions that come to mind for many U.S. consumers, Nerad said. "They think of the diesel that was out there in the early '80s," he said.

The Jeep Liberty diesel has exceeded its original sales target of 5,000 a year, with more than 11,000 units sold in 2005.

Allen Schaeffer, spokesman for Diesel Technology Forum, said increased diesel sales last year signal that consumers are interested in alternative fuels. In 2005, sales rose by 31 percent for diesel-powered cars and medium duty pickup trucks.

"In a six year period, sales have almost doubled," he said. "There's still a healthy market base out there of people interested in diesel and they're willing to pay premium for diesel vehicles."

In addition, Chrysler plans to sell more than 250,000 flex-fuel vehicles in 2007 and nearly 500,000 in 2008.

LaSorda is also expected to make a public request that Michigan push for more ethanol-85 fueling stations.

"That would go a long way toward making this fuel available for flex-fuel vehicles already on the road as well as those to come in the next few years," according to LaSorda's prepared remarks.

You can reach Josee Valcourt at (313) 222-2300 or jmvalcourt@detnews.com.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060601/AUTO01/606010346&Sear- chID=73248612931888

prairiegirl

Ok, we all understand waiting for the glow plugs to warm the engine to start and even block heaters when really cold. But, here in the south, it's hot right now. Is there a reason for turning on the key and waiting for the light to go off even under warm conditions?

smokinclatter

I all ways let my engine idle before turning the key off.
That is why I say it didn't do that before the 2nd check engine light episode.......but now the 3rd check engine light episode within 8 hours of picking it up from the 3 1/2 week stay from the 2nd check engine light episode shop.....may explain it. :lemon: :lemon: :lemon:

smokinclatter

the dealers have learned to beat the lemmon law in most states. As one example....if they give you a loaner car.

prairiegirl

I let mine idle a couple of seconds before turn it off too but what about starting? Is it really necessary to turn the key ON and wait for the start light to go OFF before actually starting the engine?

zachinmi

If the glow plug light is on, yes you really should wait until it goes out, which is never more than 2 seconds. When I start up in warm weather the glow plug light either never goes on or goes off in under 1 second.

farout

alljeep: The EGR is part of the emissions system, there by being warrantied for as long as the emissions systen is, this is by fedral law.
Knowing that these EGR systens are uncertian I bought the max care Service Contract for 100,000 miles. At 15,400 miles as of this post I have the orignal EGR. Praise the Lord.

Farout

farout

thomasw: I e-mailed V M Motori and asked them this very question. Their response was 5-40 when 10C and 10-40 when above 10C. 10C is 18F. After talking to a good number of Jeep CRD tec's I am undecided as to use 0-40 or 5-40 in my next oil change. I have flip f loped on the reasons to use each. I am leaning more to using 5-40. But I am wondering if those who have their EGR replaced what weight oil they were using? Perhaps 0-40 helps the turbo and EGR?

Farout