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Comments
Westminister is about 25 miles from where I live. Isn't worth going there, plus they only sell B2.
I intend to put a K&N in my CRD and will watch to see if the same thing happens.
Based on experiences of VW TDI owners there was no increase in mpg or power on stock vehicles. There are indications that oiled filters contributed to MAF failure. Problems with dealers honoring warranty. Some problems with debris passing past filters due to poor fitting aftermarket filters.
Not sure it is worth the trouble to use "high performance" air filters when they return no increase in performance. Gasoline and naturaly aspirated engines seem to achieve better results with K&N and similar replacement intakes.
Aftermarket filters and intakes- Some people swear by them, some people swear at them.
I had a K&N filter installed on my Suburban and the only thing that increased was the noise and oil spotting on the garage floor. I would never buy another one. Mileage stayed the same or a bit less. I kept the old filter if the next owner wants it.
Steve, Host
I also noticed that the airflow distribution seen by dirt collected on the filter is located on an arc that forms 1" from the rear inside wall of the filter housing and curves to ~2" from this wall on the left and right sides. I would have thought that the housing could have a deflector moulded into it's bottom surface to distribute and whirl the air??? Perhaps that's for next year :P
I guess you are going to have to play with the seat for a while until you get it the way you want it.
This dealer I purchased my CRD from has an outstanding reputation. My salesperson will be bring these issues to the attention of their diesel people and also to Daimler/Chrysler.
Order code is jumping from D to D1.
The clerk at DC has no answers.
Is this common? Hopefully by the time the car ships all the "issues" will have been resolved :confuse:
The MB D engines from Germany are said to get great gas milage 40 to 50 mpg in England, (english gal. 5 quarts) but here we get 26 mpg and thats good???
I get 22 on the highway all do long with my 4L and it's a 1955 AMC designed motor!
So much for new tech!
That being said, I would buy a new VW with their TDI. In England they are av. over 50 per gal. (5 qts) in some of their cars. Heck, the Honda 1.4 over in England
gets an av. of 55 mpg (5 qt) on the HW and 48 mpg in town and it's gas!
We don't have these engines because the US buyer won't buy such a small motor.
If Detroit Diesel, Daimler/Chrysler and VM Motori cannot conspire to create a good diesel engine then it’s time to throw in the towel. The ’74 Fiat that we owned had and excellent high revving small gasoline engine that rivaled the performance of today’s engines while using “dated” technology. Besides the Italians were involved in developing the common rail diesel technology, so they deserve a “piece of the action.” I admit, the rest of the car fell apart.
The Liberty CRD is not a bus. My CRD has over 5,000 miles on it and it hasn’t blown up yet.
There aren’t enough 1955 AMC’s to go around and that technology will not pass today’s clean air standards.
I think I can buy a 1.9 diesel Volkswagen in the US right now that gets 40 to 50 MPG US on the highway. I bought the Liberty for other reasons; the diesel engine was a plus.
I would have bought a Liberty diesel with a smaller engine. However, I’m getting 20 town, 28 highway and 24 MPG overall since new. Just FYI.
I don't think you can talk to a bus driver while on vacation in England and determine that the Italian MB engines are junk.
This engine has been used in the Jeeps in Europe for some time with great success. Mine is GREAT.
As far as fuel economy is concerned--this is a 2.8 liter versus a 1.9 in the VW, it is pushing a vehicle that is no where near as aerodynamic as a VW, has some beefy 4wd gear underneath,and weighs considerably more---it should not surprise anyone that it gets less fuel mileage.
I am delighted with the 27+ mph I am getting on the highway compared to the 14 -15 I used to get with my previous SUV's.
I think it is a matter of time before we see this engine in Grand Cherokees and Wranglers.
It is a fully loaded laramie that cost me about 48k canadian last year. I been thinking about getting the liberty diesel... I figure I could atleast double my milage making the switch.... plus diesel is a little cheaper also...
So can someone help me with the pros and cons? Thank you.
I think your incorrect here. the 55 amc is the 4L Jeep motor design and block. The 4L has FI and better ignition, but it's about the same engine. My 4L made for the North West passes the Calif Eme. test every time, and it was not made for Calif. The 4L I'm talking about is in a 1991 Cherokee. It has 179,000 on it and STILL passes the Calif. test!
I also have a 1998 4L that is doing just great at 126,000. I expect to get 300,000 out of the 1991.
Your right about the difference in milage due to the design of the VW and the Liberty. That would give the VW a big advantage.
However the Honda I was talking about at 55 mpg is a gas motor, (1.4). I know of no Honda is the USA that will get 55 mpg on the highway in real life. Not even a gas ele. Honda.
The Toyota Presi<sp. get terrible milage in relationship to what Toyota says it will get. NOW if you want to talk, "not worth the money" talk HYBRID!
The Toyota costs $3,500 more to start and in 7 years you will put in $3,500 in a new battery pack. That's 7K for what? and average of about 40 mpg real world.
No thanks. The diesel is much better than that, but I think I would stick with gas.
If I needed the extra low end power, I'd have a diesel tomorrow! ( if the put one in the new Commander)!
Oh, forgot to add that the bus driver (20 years with the same company has had trouble with most of the auto stuff built in Italy). He just said their stuff was usually junk compaired to German "stuff"
Did you know the English have a pet name for parts(stuff) made in Italy, it's "Lucas"!
Hope you get many years of great fun with the Diesel Liberty, and I hope your milage goes up as time goes by. They all say it will!
Of course the Honda engine that should really be over here is the 2.2 diesel in the Accord. 140 mph and 50 mpg (of course not together).
http://www.vmmotori.it/en/01/01/index.jsp
If the VM engines are so bad, most automobile manufacturers will go bankrupt. There was a tendency to use the smallest engine possible a few years ago to avoid heavy taxes in Europe. This is part of the explanation, price of imported fuel is another. VM made 'modular' diesel engines some 20 years ago that were not as robust as the newer ones when they were kept under load. The counterpart was that you could repair one cylinder at the time when you blew a gasket!
I have a friend who has an Insight and he is lucky to se an honest 60mpg on the highway if he is going 55mph. AND the truck blow it around like it's a feather.
I would not want to drive 100,000 miles with my knees in my mouth and spend an extra $7,000 in 7 years to save a few hunderd dollars in fuel costs.
As for the Civic. Again, I wouldn't want to dive at speed 20 mph slower than most of the traffic on the interstates just to save a few hunderd dollars on fuel a year while spending $1,000 a year extra just for the privilege of driving a Civic.
The Hybrids will get better milage, but at a cost that makes them economically unrealistic in the real world.
Most people who drive Hybrids, don't need to save the money for fuel, they need to feel that they are doing their part to save the world.
That's a very good reason to drive a Hybrid. More power to them (no pun intended)
But I dont like it when they tell everone about all the money their saving. And all the stories of the great, great gas milage. Most of the great gas milage stories are just that, stories! ( I can see why they would do it, who wants to tell the real truth about poor milage in a hybrid when he or she owns one)?
It is a fact that the gas milage obtained in "REAL WORLD DRIVING" of all cars and trucks is Much, Much lower than advertised claims by manufactures.
Anyone for going back to steam?
The Liberty is the way to go for you. I started out getting around 21-23 MPG around town and only slightyl better highway. From comments on this forum I knocked my highway speed down to 65-70 and have my tires up to 35 psi. Mileage is now 23-24 & 26-28. I am very happy with this vehicle, have had it off road once and Jeep has not compromised on the off road handling. The one concern I have is the placement of the oil filter. It is in the best place I have ever seen on any engine for oil changes but seems to be very exposed from ground strikes.
Regards,
Will Museler
I drove a Prius once and it just didn’t seem tippy enough for me. It went up hill too fast and went too good in the snow. Furthermore, it had way too much acceleration for me and the exceptional fuel mileage was just, well, un-American.
After several hours into a massive head wind the battery just got stronger. Moreover, it was just too good looking and had too much room inside. And the towing capacity, phenomenal. Finally, someone told me they drive on water, but I didn’t try that. But, I believe it could!
I would be taking a loss, but getting a diesel and a higher resale value vehicle though....
any more input would be greatly appreciated
thanks
If you had trouble in the snow with your Liberty, you must have been running on the garbage Goodyears that came as original equipment. If that is the case, you deserve to skid all over the place. I got rid of mine at 111 miles after slipping in a puddle at 30 mph.
As for the acceleration issue, the Liberty weighs significantly more than the Prius and has a lower power to weight ratio.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/hybrids_math.html
The MB engines from Italy are junk!!!
Engines from Italy and they both blew in 5000 Miles
THey hate the engines from Italy.
The MB D engines from Germany are said to get great gas milage 40 to 50 mpg in England,
We don't have these engines because the US buyer won't buy such a small motor.
Where do I start?
Stuff is made all over the world these days. You can't make blanket statements quality based on assumptions about a country of origin. Or the advice of a motor coach driver. A Jeep is not a bus.
BMWs are made in South Africa and South Carolina (which regularly wins top awards from BMW on quality checks) My VW GTI came from Brazil. Engines come from all over the place. Cars come from all over the place.
Besides, if the English hate italian engines, why do I see Alfa Romeos and whole flocks of Fiats zipping around London and flying by my rented Peugeot on the M4? You aren't making sense.
Did your bus driver get 50 miles to the gallon with his MB D? Why on God's green earth would you expect a Jeep Liberty with the aerodynamics of a brick and a curb weight of over 4,000 pounds? 26 mpg is decent mileage. The only fair comparison is with the 3.7 liter V6 in the Liberty. The Diesel gets 30% better mileage on average.
Go drive a CRD. If you dislike it, don't buy it. We are fortunate enough to live in a capitalist economy that allows a dizzying amount of choice. But to be quite serious, I don't think it's reasonable to trash talk an engine based on its country of origin.
I'm wondering how practical it would be for someone to put together an update add-on for the Liberty to provide this functionality? It would go a long way to mitigate the disappointment I had when I learned the CRD would not be offered with a manual tranny in the US.
Anyone know of an aftermarket option that might address this issue? And if you did manage to cobble a gated shift mechanism into the CRD would you have to then change the transmission program logic? If so, then this would definately not be a DIY project. Yet I'd be interested in it regardless.
Thoughts?
Los Angeles, Jun 07, 2005-Launch of the 2005 Jeep® Liberty CRD, the first diesel-powered mid-size SUV in the U.S. market, has been met with strong customer response, with vehicles moving quickly out of dealer showrooms and into the hands of new owners.
At the end of May more than 6,000 units had been shipped to dealers, and 3,000 of those sold. Vehicles are sitting on the dealer lots an average of 23 days, about one-third the typical time.
"The 2005 Jeep Liberty diesel has gotten off to a strong start, demonstrating that there is a latent interest in modern, clean-running diesels — an interest that we believe can be nurtured and expanded," said Jeff Bell, Vice President – Chrysler & Jeep.
Bell addressed the Motor Press Guild in Los Angeles on the challenges and opportunities of selling diesel passenger vehicles in the U.S. market.
Bell said that many Americans think of diesel as smelly, smoky, loud and dirty, an image built in part on memory of 1970s diesel technology. "The major obstacle to increasing the sales of diesel-powered passenger vehicles in the U.S. is the notion that diesel is an old, inefficient technology," Bell said.
DaimlerChrysler launched the Jeep Liberty CRD, along with the Mercedes-Benz E 320 cdi diesel luxury sedan, to test the U.S. consumer response to diesel and to change the image of diesel among U.S. consumers.
"The Jeep Liberty CRD is helping to dispel the myths about diesel technology. And that's because, most importantly it is a clean-running, common-rail diesel, with the latest Jeep technologies and benefits," Bell said. "Most definitely, this is not your father's loud, smoky, sluggish diesel."
Because of an infusion of technology, including common-rail diesel (CRD), today's diesel engines have 80 percent lower particulate emissions, 70 percent lower NOx emissions, 15 percent improved fuel consumption, 50 percent more power and 30 percent more torque than diesel engines had just a decade ago. They are also much quieter.
The 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD, equipped with a 2.8-liter, four-cylinder, turbo common-rail diesel engine, combines the torque of a V-8, the acceleration of a V-6 and the fuel economy of a four-cylinder engine. Benefits of the Jeep Liberty CRD include:
*Best-in-class torque and towing capacity.
*Best-in-class range - 500 miles highway.
*22 percent higher fuel economy compared with a comparable gasoline-powered Liberty (3.7-liter, V-6 engine).
*Lower emissions of carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons.
"Diesel engines are also durable — often running hundreds of thousands of miles with little routine maintenance," Bell said.
Chrysler Group is extending the warranty on diesel engines in all 2006 model year vehicles; the Diesel Engine Limited Warranty covers engine parts and components up to five years or 100,000 miles.
This durability also helps diesel-powered vehicles hold their value: in one example, a diesel-powered vehicle had a 64 percent higher residual value than a comparable gasoline model.
Bell acknowledged that the auto industry still has technical challenges before diesel vehicles become commonplace on U.S. streets and highways. Most notable are the need to further reduce emissions of NOx and particulates. The necessary technology is being developed, but more work is needed.
Bell noted that cleaner fuels are also needed to make diesel vehicles acceptable to Americans. "Low-sulfur diesel fuels that will be phased-in beginning in 2006 are critical," he said.
Chrysler Group is also supporting the clean fuels movement by fueling each new Jeep Liberty CRD leaving the assembly plant in Toledo, Ohio, with B5 fuel — made with 5 percent biodiesel made from Ohio soybeans. Biodiesel is a clean, renewable fuel that can further reduce our reliance on petroleum, while providing enhanced markets for American agricultural products.
"As the diesel market matures and fuel quality improves, we're confident we can develop the technology to meet EPA Tier 2, Bin 5 standards, which will support sales of diesel passenger vehicles in all 50 states. That's our goal," Bell said.
GMS Press Release June 8, 2005
Maybe you drive like a crazy man. I am sure I have driven more miles on snow and ice than you have in the last 35 years in Alaska. I never needed skid control, ABS or airbags. Learn to drive the conditions and you don't need all that crap on a car or truck. It is just that much more to go wrong with a vehicle. It is just for NON drivers. People that should not be on the road in the first place.
PS
If you read all the posts here you will find most love their new Liberty CRD.
So you're from Canada, eh
And you're wondering if the diesel Jeep Liberty would be OK.
How well would a new diesel truck mush
when driving over the frozen ground, snow and slush?
How well would the new Jeep go
with the fuel tank hanging in the back so low?
How long will things be well?
Will the diesel fuel begin to gel?
Parking all day with the fuel tank hangin' low
In a land that can see fifty below (F)
Will you be stuck on your frozen tush?
When the Jeep won't start and you're in the bush
Just how long does a battery last?
Can it still crank the diesel engine fast?
Doesn't matter what the Jeep salesman said,
If a few cranks of the engine will make the battery dead.
You could be in trouble very deep
when you try to thaw your frozen Jeep.
Will you be willing to trade in on an old beater
the first time you forgot to plug in the ole block heater?
Make sure all your needs are met
You're not down here in this Southern climate
I bought mine in February and it started at -7 F without a block heater. I wonder how they would do up there. Do you have to mix kerosene with the fuel or somesuch?
Despite some comments above, I've found good traction in snow. Sure beats the ol' Dakota
tidester, host
http://wwwsg.daimlerchrysler.com/SD7DEV/GMS/TEMPLATES/GMS_PRESS_RELEASE/0,2941,0-64-68975-- 1-1-text-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0,00.html
tidester, host
As to reliability, consumer magazines have polled many owners of the Prius and have found that they have significantly more issues with them than with non-hybrid cars. The same holds true for the VW TDI.
As to the merger with Daimler, it is what it is. I have a number of very good friends who are mechanics for Chrysler/Dodge dealerships. Most have greater then fifteen years of experience. They tell me that since 2002/03, the quality of Chrysler vehicles has improved significantly.
Good luck with your Prius.
PS
Welcome to the forum, hope you get great service out of the Liberty CRD.
On tv we often see horrific winter scenes from the States where most of the traffic seems to be blown off the road and the street lights swing like pendulums. I doubt non studded tires could help in these extreme conditions. Over here when a new truck is in the ditch you can be shure it's being driven by someone who has fancy clothes and all the rest. You'll never seen a farmer in a ditch during winter!
I only have 2 suggestion: jeep should have put in a second electric outlet in the front and the size of the filler nozzle hose should be increased to use more truck stop fill locations
I only have one complaint: it is tough to keep the speed down on the highway.
As I said, no complaints (so far), but I don't know if others have had my experience.
The winter scenes you see on TV are more common in the mid-west and plains states than where I live. Occasionally we will get such a storm every few years and the whole area is paralyzed for days as it takes that long to clear away the snow.
Good non-studded snow tires would be a big help, but are not required in Maryland except in the far western counties where they get lots of snow during the winter. For the icy conditions, studs are good but only are permitted in the far western Maryland counties. Chains are better and I will be buying a set of "S" class chains for the Jeep this fall and probably a set of snow tires too.
Good suggestions. Nobody likes having to keep a smelly funnel in a plastic bag for use at selected truck stops without the smaller diameter nozzle. They do sell splitters to give you more outlets. They are relatively inexpensive. Plug in the cigarette lighter and you can locate them where appropriate for your use.
SNOW COMMENT - I've lived in most of the US and I've found that the places where you really have to worry about snow are the places where they receive it on an infrequent basis. Folks in the deep South just don't have a clue on how to drive in the stuff. Up North they have the equipment to move it out of the way and they don't drive foolishly in the snow. California drivers are really bad in snow.
I'd like to see if anyone has started one of these diesel Jeep beasties in -20 degrees F weather. Has there been any problems? Mine puts out a big smelly cloud of white smoke in cold weather, but I haven't tried starting it in -20 degrees F weather yet.
I did just what you recommended by pulling the electrical connections and 2 hoses.......I had to use my belt wrench to get the filter loose......The electrical connection at the very bottom of the filter is quite difficult to get back on.......Other than that the procedure was simple......BTW I didn't replace the filter I only drained it and put it back on......We only have 7,000 miles on our Liberty so I didn't feel it would be dirty just yet.
Thanks again.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/sales/