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Comments
DC doesn't certify the CRD for anything over 5% Bio. There was some talk about seal damage on biodiesel over 5%.
Is this a problem of supplier anti-freeze and/or poor fuel with low cetane(discounting our euro friends-caribou1 no problem yet actarus does)? I know caribou1 doesn't use additives, but his tailpipe is clean and mine is full of black soot and produces black exhaust.
Who got the new muffler (and cat?) and a big jump in mileage? I'll take one of those. What are the part numbers?
Our CRD overheated to within 2 marks of H when my wife was driving. She drove about 28 miles in town running errands when it happened. When the temp shot up she turned off the air and pulled over. It cooled down right away. Outside temperature was only 86 degrees. She thought the engine was working hard just to go 35 MPH. I drove it later and could not repeat the problem.
I am fairly sure the overheating is no fault of the engine or cooling system. Even though I could not get it to overheat, something was dragging a little and I don’t think it was the brakes since the wheels were only warm, not hot. I think it was the transmission – playing with the gearshift reduced but did not eliminate the drag. If it is the transmission, the cooling system is doing a pretty good job of masking the problem to a point.
Once at around 900 miles I backed out of a parking spot and put the transmission in drive and stepped on the pedal and the vehicle would not move – like the parking brake was on – but it was not. I moved the gear selector through the positions and back to drive and on the second or third try at moving the selector it drove okay – until now
Try this logic: one of the solenoids in the transmission is not totally releasing a clutch/band when engaging another clutch/band (or the offending solenoid or computer is trying to re-engage). This additional drag heats the transmission oil 2 ways, through a dragging clutch and the torque converter. Excess heat is dumped into the bottom of the radiator and hotter than normal water flows into the engine where it is quickly heated way above normal while the engine is working harder than it should. Super hot water is dumped into the top of the radiator and the fan clutch finally kicks in quickly cooling the engine down because the driver is off the pedal and turned off the air-conditioning .
This isn’t like dragging brakes. Dragging brakes externalize heat into the wheels and air and slowly cause the engine to overwork and overheat if bad enough. A dragging clutch in the transmission internalizes heat into the transmission oil then the radiator (okay, a little goes into the transmission housing and the air).
We will see what the dealer has to say.
I guess I could try and get it to melt down if it would overheat for me. My wife accused me of being like a dealership when I couldn't recreate the problem.
I had been wanting a Dodge Cummins for years and followed those threads. Bacteria, algae, fuel/water filters, trans temp guages, exhaust gas pyrometers, chips, bigger exhaust pipes etc.
Some gasser manufacturers say that high doses of additives (detergent/naptha?) have an effect on sparkplugs and other parts(hoses and vitron in fuel injetors?).
The heavy soot in my tailpipe and in the exhaust caused me to try a second full bottle of Redline with a fill up to see any effect on soot. Subjectively, I think it might have but at what future cost.
Diesel Kleen's sales vp stated no naptha was used. I believe my first post months ago paraphrased his email/conversation.
I want to handle water from the fuel tank forward, lubricate the pump/injectors, and boost cetane, with a little detergent that isn't naptha.
This weekend with the new Dueler HL's at 35psi, the second oil change and a new air filter and Shell with diesel kleen added at fillups, we drove to Oklahoma and got ~22 mpg. The return leg ~20mpg.
This is a fuel drop for us. It is hot and humid and I hope that explains the mileage for us and the poster from Florida in a post awhile back.
We're at ~ 8700 miles. I hope we're not next. We like this CRD. We only towed once to bring our trailer home. No issue then. I would love that new huge muffler(and cat?) if we could get a bump in mileage like ptrillium/trillium? and maybe a cleaner exhaust and tailpipe.
Quote from Detroit News article:
Maytag washing-machine technicians used to lay claim to being the loneliest people in town, but now that distinction may apply to the diesel experts at the Jeep hot line -- (800) 925-JEEP (5337).
Jeff Bell, the vice president of Chrysler/Jeep for DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group, told Consumer's Eye that in the first six months since the 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD, the brand's diesel-powered sport utility vehicle, went on sale, the hot line has received no questions from consumers.
"We assume there's a lot of consumer satisfaction because we haven't heard from people," Bell said.
Full article:
www.detnews.com/2005/autosconsumer/ 0507/08/G03-237675.htm
22 mpg is what I'm getting in mixed driving conditions max speed 70 mph and a lot of (automatic) shifting in the city. Local city driving conditions are seriously degrading because of the increasing population.
As you can see, in normal life you are far from the 500 miles range on one tankfull!
For bacteria and algae, I think the fuel tank is too small to give time for groath when you use the truck every day. I have to refill at least once a week (73 USD for 14 US Gals).
I coasted to a stop in neutral and at around 5 MPH the transmission did a shift that I felt in the drive train marginally increasing the slow down. I had to take a second look to make sure it was in neutral. Linkage adjustment – maybe? All the rest of the gears seem to be in the right place. Since when is neutral not neutral? I give up.
It may be worth somebody's time to look into this.. If I'm right, somebody buy me a beer!
.
Do you have the '04 model or the '05 with the changes stated by DC as insulation and varible turbo. I'm still convinced it's a "wastegate issue" "variable turbo issue". I know that "wastegate" has been stated as not the technology employed. My engine cover is also a decoration until winter comes for a few weeks in Jan or Feb.
I would, as I previously posted, prefer less rapid rise in turbo/rpm's and a diesel that acts like an older type. It's tiring to have to not press the excelerator to keep engine speed down and fuel economy up. I don't care if 0 to 60 times go up a second or two, even here where it's always a racetrack.
Winter2 is using Redline and I'll use up the rest of my case of traveling pints of Dkleen. Some additives can survive the combustion process to clean the egr and other exhaust issues. I'm waiting and hoping to see we both survive. In Europe your diesel may be coming from sweet Brent. Remember my post about stanadyne (with light and heavy naptha I believe) not guaranteeing protection from asphaltines in texas diesel from mexican crude.
Did anyone mistakenly change their atf and not use ATF+4 from DC in the tranny? Don't. I posted in dodge trucks and asked Dusty to post here. I believe I got a host reprimand for the radiator additive brand name comment (radiator additive-again treating result/symptom and not cause?). Thank goodness we haven't lost our (rights) useful comment description posts here. I have been to other forums but I'm not into monster truck mods or climbing the Matterhorn and I would like to stay here. Pttrillium, are you also ttrillium?
Browse Dodge Ram 1500 here at Edmunds and read posts from Dusty.(dustyk).
It's pretty hot here right now and I'm trying to get mine to overheat. I can climb 3,000 feet just 5 miles from where I live. I keep the A/C on to max and lock the tranny in 3rd gear. Perhaps my temperature gauge is an artefact?
1. On the Dodge trucks it is under-cooled. He stated that if you do highway driving without towing you will be okay. Since this is basically the same trans, it just may have a similar issue. I called the dealer and asked them about it. They told me that adding an aftermarket trans cooler will not void the warranty. I do not tow with my CRD.
2. The torque converter clutch is a "pulse" type clutch. According to my friend it is always engaged in some form or another anywhere from 35 % and up. He stated that in city driving, it is a very busy clutch generating tons of heat. The facing on this clutch is made out of Kevlar.
3. For those who do tow, I hope you are locking out the overdrive. He told me not doing so will fry any trans in no time.
4. Learned that all shifting is electrohydraulic. There is an electronic component and a hydraulic component.
5. I told him about that some people are having overheating issues while others are not. He stated that if there is excessive slippage in the trans that excess heat will be generated and that such will indirectly contribute to engine overheating. He stated that if the engine has to rev more to maintain speed/performance, then that will contribute to overheating.
Next subject, additives, fuel and lubricant.
In Europe, the quality of diesel far surpasses what we have here and it is low-sulfur too. Because the base crude for domestic diesel is not so good and the sulfur level is high, I will use additives to keep things clean and improve the cetane.
In the owner's manual, it states Mobil 1 0W-40 is the "preferred" oil while 5W-40 is "acceptable". The 5W-40 oil is intended for heavy duty engine use and has very high detergent levels as well as a high TBN number. The 0W-40 has less detergent and a lower TBN number. Since domestic fuel is high sulfur, I will be changing my oil more frequently then 6,250 miles. Burning sulfur yields sulfur dioxide. Combine that with water, some oxygen and you will get sulfuric acid. Need I say more. Once the low sulfur fuel comes in, then I will extend my changes to 6,250 miles. In the meantime it will be every 3500 miles.
On my other job with the navy, F-14's needed to do a pre-op boot up of sorts of its computers before flight. The aircraft needed to know initial temps, pressures, fuel loads and alike. Now, the diesel software seems to be having some input problems as per start up. Would a boot up be in order while glow plugs are engaged? This start up would also clear the "bit" error module (that's if none were stored in memory) to monitor any problems in boot up. The transmission and engine would have to engage in a "sync" start up to prevent any lock out or vacumm abnormality during driving mode.
The whole assumption that a vehicle of this sort needs a sophisticated computer might be a clue that something is inherently unstable. From the forum, there seems to be a critical mass as per messages which Jeep can't disregard. I do not know if my local dealer is even diesel technically qualified to work on the Liberty CRD. I like the idea of a diesel which is a philosophy all its own, but Jeep might do better to address the technical issues which I find frustrating in your forum. If I knew that Jeep was on my side, then at least I'll feel good walking along the Interstate with my liberty's engine hood up.
A: Yes .
The sticker does read "Wastegate solenoid", but if you look in the center it will also reads "VGT", variable gate turbo. I think is a typo. It should read "VGT Solenoid". I have the 05 service manual an it still has the wastegate type of turbo in it not the VGT.
Q: Secondly, can the BCM overfuel the engine as well as "defuel the engine"?
A: I would guess so.
Q: If my ignorance gives you a laugh - then no reply is necessary.
A: We are all here to learn something new.
"...and quickly put it into reverse...". I think you might have answered your own question. But it couldn't hurt to check your tranny fluid level. We always give the solenoids time to engage. Your shifter is not like a manual gearbox. Your brother and dad could probably help with this one if they have automatics.
I ask because of a Ford experience we had. After some time with our 1996 E-150 conversion van, I started to see low readings on the dipstick and adding mobil1 was getting expensive. At 30k, I did my own tune-up, plug wires stuck on plugs from lack of grease at assembly. But what I noticed was the dipstick tube pressed into the 351W block was loose,had risen up and was giving false low readings.
I ordered a new tube and wouldn't you know-it slid in and out of the hole in the block. Ford mechanic says they see it all the time and use superglue. I used epoxy.
There is a new feature you guys are getting: the throttle valve that closes to choke the engine without shaking. This valve once closed will make the pistons suck oil through the inlet valves stem bushings during the admission cycle. I don't find it very appealing for the catalyser :confuse:
1. Oil level and consumption: I have changed the oil once on my CRD. Put in 6 quarts, 13 ounces. The level on the dipstick is ever so slightly below the MAX mark when cold and slightly above when hot.
As to the consumption issue, my CRD used 3/4 of one quart in the first 650 miles and then that was it. Has not used a drop since.
2. Smoke: my CRD does not smoke unless I really put my foot into it and then the amount of smoke is very small. When I had my previous diesel I learned that poor quality fuel yields more smoke and poor performance while good quality fuel yields much less or no smoke and better performance. I usually have a bit of smoke when it is cold, but then again, I drive my CRD gently until it is warmed up.
3. Overheating issue: while I was doing some PM this morning, I checked the routing of the serpentine belt against the sticker under the hood. For those of you who are having the overheating issue, make sure the serpentine belt is routed properly on the pulleys. Just a thought. I know this is not particularly likely, but it cannot hurt to look.
I have 13,800 Km's on my CRD.No overheating problems.It has been steadily 90 degrees here in Windsor Canada.
I have found that during the break in period , you will have more than usual oil usage.
I keep an extra bottle or 2 around the garage,just in case it does burn it off.
I also would suggest an oil change before any long trip,even if you had the oil changed 2 monthes before.This may help with the smoking spue -adge .
I would think it is typical on any vehicle if you stomp on it from a dead stop that it would smoke a bit.
Changing oil before a trip may help a bit on fuel economy as well.I have had good results.
As it was mentioned earlier 5W40 Mobile 1 Synthetic is premium,rather than the Mopar Diesel equivelant .
Also in this case of over heating I wuld try it,just to see if it makes a difference.
Thicker oils have a tendency to absorb heat better than thin oils.But this may be a matter of opinion,as with synthetic oils are thinner,but flow better ,So... what is better for traveling?? What do you guys think??
Diesels' have a longer break in period than gas engines ,mainly because of high compression rings in the cylinder heads.
I also have been getting 31mi/gal in mine. That 466 milesaverage out a 15 gal U.S. tank On a long trip lets say I will some time fill up with the premium diesel fuel and it has giving me a bit more better mileage and Ummff ! , ...
I drive mainly hwy miles.I try to never go over 55 mph. So far I feel my investment in this multi - purpose vehicle has paid off.
I hope you do find a solution,to the over heating,and enjoy Your Jeep for what it is made for.
Peace ..Lightnin..
I own a 2002 Jeep Liberty Limited now. I was however thinking of getting another Jeep the CRD. I should say I really had my heart set on getting one 5 months ago.
I guess the questions I propose to all of you is this ?
What is the point of spending $1800.00 plus on the Diesel to get better gas mileage ? Plus, I noticed that Diesel fuel in Milwaukee, WI is 10 - 20 cents higher that premium gas in my area. Right now it's $2.59 to $2.69 per gallon.
So, I guess where would I be saving all this money ? I don't see it ? HELP
Sincerely, John Confused
I believe prefilling a filter is done for the CRD fuel/water filter and I can see why-it saves all that manual pumping. I've heard about prefilling an oil filter for years but never have done it. I believe it helps fill hydraulic lifters quicker on startup. The CRD oil filter is lower than the horizontal (and also sticks down near the airflow and is probably why I'll never get all three skid plates) and I believe it might have an anti drain valve in it.
When I change the oil I remove the filler cap, drop the plug then remove the filter and let the oil drain and drain.
I stand corrected again. Yes, I should've said 6.1 liters(6.4 US quarts or 6 qts and 13 ounces). And while I am apologizing, thank you all for not laughing at what should've been "accelerator" in an earlier post. My wife asked excelerator - is that some new excel macro?
Remember this is tired old dave.
Thank you for being kind.
Other good points
1. Far fewer oil changes required.
2. I am paying 251.9 for Shell diesel fuel in Rockville, MD. That is 18 cents more than regular gas at the same place. The fuel is actually cheaper than mid-grade and premium.
3. I am getting in the low 20's in mixed city-highway driving, upper 20's straight highway. The gas version gets around 13 mpg in the mixed city environment and mid-teens on the highway. Do the math.
4. The CRD out runs the gas version from 0 to 60 by about one second.
Hope this helps. If you have any questions, sing out.
The oil has nothing to do with it. I have used Amsoil products for years without a single problem.
As to the trans problem, that really needs to be looked into. There is a TSB, do not have the number unfortunately, that is a software upgrade that may remedy the trans issue. The way it sounds, it seems as if the trans is stuck in a lower gear and you might be over revving the engine. What does the Tachometer read at 60 mph?
Find another dealership with real mechanics. Where do you live?
The only Liberty we drove is the CRD we test drove in February that was on a dealer's showroom. I believe the front suspension is new for 2005 and have been told these new ones ride better.
You have to love diesels and understand you don't drive them and maintain them like the way some people drive gassers. You don't just stop, turn the key off and go inside-there is cool down time among other things.
If you wanted a full sized diesel like I have, the Jeep CRD like a recent poster said is what it is and if you understand that then there is nothing else.
Listen behind these posts, we love the CRD, we're pissed that there is anything wrong. A post awhile back stated, if an owner has a heat issue - why doesn't DC just exchange it for a new one that is tested to be flawless.
This heat issue is a DC marketing misfire and heads ought to roll. Would I buy another one. You bet. Would I love a slower reving not a tire smoking pull out at the stop light if I forget I'm in the CRD- you bet. Would I give up a second or two 0 to 60 for a few more mpg's - you bet.
Drive a CRD, compare it to your 2002, I can't. Tell the salesman if he's with you to shut up. Drive down a bumpy road, cruise on the freeway, drive down a country lane with turns. Try not to smoke the tires on pull out-build up your speed. Enjoy.
And as caribou1 has said many times, most of us will never see that almost 500 miles to a tankfull.
If you buy(wait to see how this is resolved?), negotiate a better set of tires if you see they are still using ST's.
This should be an easy thing to replicate. If you are running at 3000 rpm no wonder it wants to overheat.
FWIW, it might be comforting to know that there are some of us who have had no overheating issues and no brake issues at all. I did have a tranny related solenoid that was sticking and caused hard shifts. But that was soon replaced and all is well now. I love my Liberty CRD! My build date was April 21, 2005. I'm glad it wasn't a Friday! :-)
My CRD came with less than a full oil fillup. At around 500 miles I happened to check the oil level and it was almost a quart low. I added a quart of the proper Mobil 1 (0W40? or 0W50?) oil as suggested in the owners manual. The oil level has not changed in the subsequent 2000 miles. I have a feeling that whoever on the assy line was supposed to top off the oil didn't fret over it being nearly a quart low. As there were a few others who expressed concern when they found their nearly new CRD a quart low on oil, I am beginning to think that some are coming from the factory in that state. Top it off with the proper oil and see if it drops any amount to worry about.
BigPops
Dealer fixed a rattle in the exhaust in the first couple hundred miles.
MIleage: 21-23 city 27-28 highway. Worst mileage= 18.5 mpg.
Has 4400 miles on it and it burned 1/2 quart of oil (just changed it for the heck of it)
No shifting issues.
No brake issues.
Build date 2/05
Delighted with the thing. But if we have issues I will post them.
This statement is incorrect and has no basis in fact.
"The torque converter clutch is a "pulse" type clutch. According to my friend it is always engaged in some form or another anywhere from 35 % and up. He stated that in city driving, it is a very busy clutch generating tons of heat. The facing on this clutch is made out of Kevlar."
Since I believe you are discussing the Jeep Liberty diesel, I'm assuming that the transmission he's referring to is the 545RFE. His description of the operation is misleading.
The Torque Converter Clutch on the 545RFE provides lock up of the torque converter and is electronically modulated to buffer the powertrain against torsional vibrations at engagement. This means that the torque converter clutch is modulated only at certain times and is highly dependent on a number of specific conditions:
*input speed
*engine speed
*shift lever position
*operating gear range
*transmission fluid temperature
*coolant temperature
*throttle position
The torque converter clutch on this transmission is no busier than it would be on any other vehicle when driven under the same operator and physical conditions (load, inclines, operator demand). In practical terms, during a upshift sequence (start up to cruise speed) the torque converter does not lock up until a fairly steady speed is reached in 5th gear. On this transmission, lock up does not occur until 4th gear, and only under very specific conditions, sometimes in 3rd.
The 545RFE is a extremely well designed and durable transmission. So far after five years these transmissions have proven to be highly reliable. The 545RFE is used behind the Dodge Hemi motor, including the new 6.1 version. In my opinion a 545RFE behind a 4-cylinder diesel is overkill, especially in the Liberty.
If a 545RFE is contributing to a over heating of the engine coolant, my first suspect would be a sporadic engagement of one of the holding clutches. This could be spurious or as a result of a valve body malfunction. The 545RFE is a very sophisticated transmission. If something like this has happened, especially an over temperature of the transmission fluid, the dealer should easily find a fault code stored with a DRB3 scan tool...unless there has been more than 40 restarts and successful trips without the symptom.
Regards,
Dusty