Jeep Liberty Diesel

bradkurtz

I like the Liberty, but really need more than 5000 lbs towing. That is the reason the diesel is so intriguing, OK mileage and good towing.

sebring95

I highly doubt they'll up the tow rating just because of the diesel. While it's going to have good power, it's a light-duty diesel and not to be confused with something in a 3/4 ton truck. The Chassis is still the same along with a very short wheelbase. You could throw a Cummins in the Liberty and I still wouldn't pull over 5,000# with it. Granted it might pull 5,000# much better than the gasser, but that's more than enough weight on this class of vehicle.

jayrider

Absolutely right on the money. It makes no sense from a safety standpoint to tow anything at the upper limits of your maximum weight rating. And don't forget wind resistance factors even if you are going to pull a lightweight upright travel trailer. I pulled a 5500lb dry weight 26 foot travel trailer with a 96 Chevy half ton with a 350 V8 and a tow package all over the east coast and eastern Canada. Up and down grades and dealing with headwinds and crosswinds, there were many white knuckle moments. Even dropping a thousand pounds, I'd be very careful what I towed with a Liberty. Stay well within the suggested guidelines.

sebring95

Exactly, and I might go on to add that in addition to the towing limit (which is usually exagerated) you have the gross combined vehicle weight rating (GCVWR) which is how much the tow vehicle and trailer can weigh together. You'll usually hit the GCVWR before you can get the maximum towing weight anyway. I've had 5,000# on a Grand Cherokee (which is rated for 6,500# I believe) and I wouldn't do it for long distances. You might be ok for short trips and slower speeds, but to go on a long highway trip with that kind of weight on a small chassis is asking for trouble.

I've got two diesel pickups. The one is a 3/4 ton with Cummins and it's max towing is around 13,000#. I pulled my newest trailer back about 800 miles using that truck and it was not pretty. The new trailer is about 12,000# dry but is 42' and has a lots of tongue weight. Way too much for a single wheeled vehicle, even though I was probably within the specs of the truck. Wind really effects you as do passing vehicles. My new Ram dually pulls that trailer very well, even with another 4,000# loaded on.

bradkurtz

I doubt anything I tow will actually weigh more than 5000 lbs, but a two horse trailer filled with two horses requires all the tow rating you can get as the load shifts. You actually don't pull more than 5000 lbs, but as the load shifts momentarily you will need want more, and it is safer.

Go to Australia and Europe websites, tow rating for the diesel is 3500 Kg or 7700 lbs (US).

I understand the US ratings may end up lower (for an identical truck) due to the litigious nature of our society, but that is why I am in law school, if you can't beat them, join them.

sebring95

I also notice the much larger and powerful Grand Cherokee is also limited to 3500kg. I wonder if they just have a maximum towing limit by law for certain classes of vehicles. Possibly the manufacturers aren't liable beyond those numbers although 2500kg for the 4cyl is less than that. They even publish tow ratings on cars in the UK. PT Cruiser is 1000kg, Neon 450kg.

As for the manual tranny having a lower tow rating, it's gotta be the clutch. Lots of 1/2 ton manual trucks have very low tow ratings. The NV3500 tranny used in many 1/2 tons is rated for more power than any are putting out, which leaves the clutch as the only other difference. And anyone that's driven a 1/2 ton manual knows you can smell burning clutch even if you're being careful.

If you're not looking to tow more than 3500#, the "wiggle room" you're looking for won't be anywhere but on paper. The suspension and chassis of the vehicle are no different even if they do rate it for more than 5,000#. As long as you're legal, I can't see where it makes any difference.

caribou1

For your info, I read a french Jeep post saying that the extra towing ability was related to the use of rear disk brakes and the 545 tranny.

caribou1

I hope none of us will ever stop Liberty !
In Europe, most vehicles have a rear brake force compensator that works according to the rear axel load. This allows to keep most of the braking power on the front end for better stability. I remember that north american cars didn't all have this feature about 15 years ago. Perhaps now they do. I remember driving through Florida with a rental GM Blazer 2WD, and it would have been a nightmare to pull something behind that truck. The Liberty is far better today, much more stable due to it's steering and front coil spring suspension system. It is quite stable under lateral wind situations, but being short it will respond too quickly if the trailor is not adapted.

caribou1

I think you should not consider the new Diesel engine of the Liberty for easy towing with a manual shift. Between idle speed ~800 rpm and 1500 rpm where maximum torque starts, there is very-very little power available. From standstill you have to use the clutch quite a bit, or choose the automatic that does it for you. I talked to someone who has a new Liberty 2.5L CRD with manual shift, and he was complaining of often stalling after a cold start. This did not happen with the older diesels where you could let go the clutch pedal and then accelerate. I had already written in a previous post that the common rail behaves like a gas engine (petrol over here). Before buying my Jeep I test drove most suv's that offered common rail. (Kia, Land Rover, Nissan, Toyota, etc...). With the manual shift at low rpm it was just miserable to always have attention on the tachometer to avoid the sensation of pressing a pillow instead of the gas pedal. I got rid of a fancy common rail sedan with manual shift because it had no punch at low rev. but could ride at 120 mph all day, which is useless.
My preference would go to a Nissan Patrol TDI for torque at the low end.
The new Jeep 2.8 L CRD does a wonderful job with the automatic because it has a short set of gears and the transmission fluid radiator is not there for the beauty of it, but because it has a lot to dissipate. I hope to remove the mistery around this diesel engine: it's perfect for cars not heavier than a metric ton, but is not powerful enough for the heavy stuff.

caribou1

The 2.8 diesel has more torque only once you have reached 1500 rpm. You can feel this when the overriding clutch closes. The 545 tranny is tuned to always stay between 1500 and 3500 rpm; this works perfectly.
You will never get the feeling of 'pull' a 305 cubic inch gas v8 with manual shift used to provide (I don't know if they are still used).
I could compare the shifting of my KJ with that of an american diesel city bus. From standstill, it revs up to 2200 rpm, then the overriding clutch closes and the engine goes down to 1500 rpm until you reach again 2200 rpm (depending on the position of the gas pedal you can take it to 3000 rpm). And so on...
Nevertheless, for all situations while not towing, this new engine does a great job. It is not as economical as what people expect from what I read in the posts. I get 350 miles out of a tankfull before the 'need to refill' chime rings and not 475 as posted.
You could experience the feel of this engine for a few $$ by renting a Volkswagen TDI and riding alone for an hour, then take 3 more adults with luggage. On flat grounds it's acceptable, but going uphill is different especially between 5 to 30 mph.
I live in a mountain area 15 minutes out of Geneva Switzerland, and it's tough for cars out here. This is why I would recommend a low pressure multi-valved turbo+intercooler diesel fo towing. For info, in this region a great number of people who need to tow horses use gas V8s (typically the Range Rover), while others will prefer the big diesels for work, fun and travel. We pay diesel 4 USD per US gallon, and gas around 5.50 USD per gal.

sebring95

I know performance mods on diesels aren't all that common in most of europe, but have you seen anything for the 2.8? I would agree with you on a stock TDI feeling a bit stressed in 5-30mph pulling, however that can be changed quite easily with a few mods. I've bumped the power on my TDI and the difference was very noticeable.

I drive in a generally hilly area (foothills of a mountain range) and my TDI is by far the best driver out of most 4cyl cars I've driven. No it doesn't pull like a V8 car, but it goes like stink up and down the hills if you're moving. I've got a steep hill I pull everyday heading home and my TDI will maintain 55mph without downshifting. My V8 Audi can't maintain speed in overdrive, nor can most other gas vehicles I've driven. That's the real difference for me, and comparing it to something that gets even marginally close mpg isn't even fair.

As for the mileage, diesels don't seem to get tremendous mileage in around-town situations. I don't know exactly the conditions you're driving in, but I can notice a difference if I get hung-up in a lot of around town traffic. Granted the diesel still should be better than a typical gasser in the same situation, but just not as wide of a margin. The driving I do with my Jetta is typically 80% highway and even at high speeds the mileage beats the pants of off most anything else, including the hybrids. The only reason I can think of the Liberty getting less-than-stellar highway mileage is because it has quite unimpressive aerodynamics, but you can't do much about that if you want an SUV. I would think maintaining a reasonable speed would have the most effect on mpg on the highway.

As for the pedal feel and lack of acceleration on the CRD you mentioned above, I wonder if it's a programming issue? On my '03 Dodge Ram with a CRD Cummins I notice nothing of the sort. I can release the clutch without giving it any accelerator (in 2nd or 3rd gear even) and mash the pedal and the truck will about jump off the ground. Very much like a TDI except it doesn't have the mid-range "lull" of a TDI. Quite impressive for a vehicle that gets a loaded 16,000# horse trailer hooked-on and can still go down the highway at speeds beyond safe.

And you won't find many (if any) TDI's to rent here in the states. Most americans aren't impressed with diesels and they're not something likely to show-up for rent. Maybe at a specialty rental shop, but I've never heard anyone sucessfully finding a rental TDI. Ford and GM have the rental market locked-up with their rental-perfect vehicles they produce.

caribou1

Yes, there is a special chip on sale here to get 170 HP instead of 150 HP. It can be found in Germany under:
--quote--
STARTECH SD5 Leistungskit für 2.8 CRD,
125 kW / 170 PS bei 4.000 U/min, max. Drehmoment 400 Nm bei 2.500 U/min
--unquote-
You may be able to decode from above that the engine turns a bit faster, but you have to hit 2500 rpm to get into the high torque. This corresponds to 75 MPH and more, but does not help you much between 5-30 mph (everyday driving + offroad).
The Dodge Ram I understand has a 6 liter engine. By nature, this breathes quite well. The case of your Jetta could be different in the sense that the first TDIs were 90 HP, then 110 HP and finally 130 HP using the same engine. So if you went from 90 to 130 direcly, I agree this makes a comfortable difference for this size of car. For a given size of car and engine, the common rail can bring more power and better mileage (typically between the 90 and the 110 HP models) and at the higher end have again more power but less mileage. I assume the basic version of the Jeep 2.8L CDR is right in the middle with it's 150 HP. By the way, do your horse trailors have their own brake circuit controlled by the pushing force on the hook? This may be one of the differences between american and european legislation about towing.

sebring95

Most trailers here have electrically controlled brakes. My trailer is a double-axle with electric on all four wheels. Some boats here have what we call "surge" brakes which sounds similar to what you're describing. Two of our horsetrailers are "gooseneck" in that they hook to a ball mounted in the bed of the truck placing the weight right over the rear axle.

I've pulled a 6'x12' utility trailer which was rented from U-haul that had surge brakes. It seemed to brake very nicely and it seemed convenient to not deal with a controller. I'm not sure what the advantages/disadvantages of each system are. I know if you go much larger than my biggest horse trailer, you typically need a medium-duty truck and they have different brakes (electric over hydraulic or air).

Most owners manauls here state anything over a couple thousand pounds requires seperate trailer brakes.

jayrider

the magic words: "I still want a diesel". Here's to getting what you want and not always getting what you need. Life's too short.

caribou1

If you ask your local VW dealer for a test drive of the Passat TDI Tiptronic, I am shure he will let you try it for a day or two. There is some kind of addiction with this car. If you don't want to return home with the Passat the first day, drive there with your Jeep. The only unpleasant thing for me with the Passat is the size of it's side mirrors; and you can touch the pavement from your seat...

jimlockey

Before anyone thinks about buying a VW diesel or gas car they need to know how much it will cost for preventive maintence. I had a TDI and it cost me 3 times as much as my Ford power stroke or Dodge diesel. Check this out first............

moparbad

A general statement that a diesel will cost more to maintain than gas engine is an myth in my experience. The Liberty is not available yet so w/o seeing the maintenance schedule it is not possible to determine a cost comparison.
For the VW TDI example I know from careful examination and experience that the normal maintenance of a TDI diesel is less costly than the 1.8T or 2.0 gasoline engines.
I know enough people with Powerstroke trucks that I laugh at the idea of maint. being 3X less expensive than a TDI.

sebring95

I think if you haul a VW into a dealer for maintenance, it can be expected you'll pay a premium. Especially if you do something silly like drop it off and say "give me the 30k mile service". I learned my lesson with that back in '92 with my first Toyota. Many dealers have their own maintenance schedules and "buy a new car" is a cheaper option it would seem in some cases. With a little thought neither should cost all that much for just maintenance.

What exactly did you find was so expensive on the VW for preventative maintenance? Beyond oil changes, a fuel filter here and there, and a timing belt at xx interval there isn't much required. I'd be hard-pressed to come up with more PM cost on my TDI than either of my Cummins diesels. Neither really calls for much maintenance, but just the large quantities of fluids will add up on the heavy trucks.

I see no reason why the Liberty diesel would cost more to maintain than the gassers. Fuel filter might need changed more often, although I tend to change fuel filters on gassers fairly often too.

jimlockey

You can laugh if you like Moporbad but I had a 2002 VW TDI for almost two years and have a 2000 Ford Power Stroke diesel now. It cost me three times as much for preventave maintenance for the New Beetle. I'm 71 years old and I don't lie. I went to three different VW dealers in the Dallas area and all three tried to rip me off. One even tried to charge me $15.00 for electrolytes for the my mainteance free battery each time I brought the Beetle in for maintenance. No more VW's for me.

sebring95

You have to be very specific when going to dealers. In the past, I would read my manual for what is required and tell the dealer exactly what to do. This I learned after spending $600 on a 30k miles "service" on my first Toyota where they checked, rechecked, and did a complete over-kill service.

FWIW, you probably do not have a "maintenance-free" battery. My TDI has what appears to be a maintenance free battery, but you can add water as needed. $15 is crazy but nevertheless it is something that needes to be checked if you want the battery to last a long time. I'm still running my OEM battery from my '00 VW and have topped off the battery a few times. Still cranks great even with these terrible temps we've had lately.

This really applies to all dealers, not just VW. It's compounded with the Asian and European brands because their service rates and parts are higher. I've recieved a notice from my local Chevy and Jeep dealers recommending a long list of "necessary maintenance to keep my vehicle in top condition". Blah!

moparbad

Dealers are independent and the quality and cost of service provided varies. I'm sure we can agree on that.
The VW TDI and diesels in general typically due not require more maintenance or more costly maintenance compared to a gasoline engine.
The service intervals for my TDI's were reasonable and I knew where to obtain parts and service at a reasonable cost. It was not the dealer. The VW dealer would have loved to complete excessive high cost maintenance. This however, is true also for my Mazda dealer and my Toyota dealer.

I understand the problem you faced Jim and it is unfortunate that the dealers soured you on such a great car. It is not fair to assume that a diesel is more costly to maintain based on your experience alone.

renegader

I live in Europe, so my experience may be different from yours...
But I drive 21 months 2.5 CRD Diesel Liberty (in Europe still named Cherokee)and Im sorry, its not good! It is loud as an tractor until 55 mph and now - winter starting is very poor... It smokes white over ten seconds, smells with bad burned diesel and the run is for a while not regular. Dealeship says its normal. Some oil leakage from turbocharger pipe will be an significant problem of future, corresponding to "Cherokees" powered by VM. Dealership says the pipe will be reconstructed, I should wait... My engine comes really from VM motori Italy, which is owned by Detroit Diesel. In the Autumn 2003 came Liberty with 2,8l diesel with automatic transmission, what should be an "overbored" Mercedes engine. I tried it, but my impression of beeing too loud did not change, and the acceleration is not better as the 2,5 CRD with manual. I´m not sure 21 mpg are worth it...
I lived happy 7 years with more Volkswagens TDI engines and the feeling is uncomparable... Next time it will be an VW, probably an Touareg.

yachtie

Just reading some past comments re mpg and wish to add my 2 cents. I would be very disappointed to not attain 30mpg city and 40mpg highway ( imperial) from a state of the art new diesel in this vehicle. In the past I have obtained 29 mpg city/36mpg (imperial not US) highway from 2 different Toyota Landcruiser diesels ( one the short model, the other s/w model)These had 4 cyl 3.1L and 3.4L diesels accordingly which were very heavy vehicles with no aerodynamics! Admittedly I tend to drive with a tender right foot but I would certainly hope that a Jeep Liberty would exceed this.Will be eagerly awaiting the official figures for this engine.

caribou1

The old Cherokee diesel used to have a Renault 2.5L turbo in Europe. This motor had the oil leak problem on the shaft of the rotor, and the engine sometimes became self-fed from it's own lubricant. If the driver had the proper reflex of shifting to a high gear and applying the brakes, it could be stopped. A friend of mine turned the key to try to stop the engine, and it overrevved, blew a piston into the head and burned.

bpeebles

This is a possibility on ANY diesel engine. Since it RUNS on oil.... any engine-oil that leaks into the intake plenum can cause the engine to REV out of control. (Recall that a diesel engeine DOES NOT HAVE A THROTTLE VALVE.... its RPM is controlled soley by how much fuel is injected)

On the VW TDI diesel, there is a special flapper valve in the intake plenum that CLOSES when the key is turned off. This ensures that turning the key to OFF will-indeed stop the engine even if it in an overrev condition.

I have heard that for many people, if their diesel start to accellerate out of control, the first instinct is to push in the clutch.... this instantly sends the engine to overrev and it self-destructs.

renegader

To caribou1:
You are quire right: The first turbodiesels in old Cherokees came really from Renault, but they had only 2,1 L volume.
The later 2,5 L turbodiesels came from VM motori. I don´t know how Renault, but these VM (inclusive mine) have such problems as you described. I have only some 30.000 miles on.
Chrysler people say, the 2,8 L should be better, because its overbored 2,7 Mercedes.
From your texts is to know you have good experiences...

caribou1

The new VM engine is called 'R428'.
You will find it's description at the following url:
http://www.ricardo.com/downloads/New_Engine_News.pdf
I made a typing error: the Renault has always been a 2.1 TD, widely used in their sedans.
The 2.7 CRD is the 5 cyl. from Mercedes. I must admit it sounds better, but the more cylinders you have, the less compression you get.

elemint

if they come out with a german diesel! Hmmm. I am still amazed that that 50% of suv's are not diesel already. Modern diesels are cleaner than natural gas even! On top of that they can get double the milage of the present gas hog libery that is now on the road.

jayrider

If your sources for doubling the mpg are accurate then you could count on 33-44mpg with a diesel Liberty. Technology will probably be capable of such an achievement for a vehicle of this size and weight and drivetrain, but my guess it will take twenty or so years to do it. If mpg is at the top of your list then you won't want a Liberty---gas or diesel. If a heavy duty 4x4 mid-size suv that has impressive off road capabilities is what you want then it might be worth a test drive.

moparbad

The IH Scout and Terra was available with diesel in 1980 and 1981. It was a 4 door 4WD SUV before the SUV term. 30 mpg highway and 20 plus mpg city. It was heavier than the Liberty as it was built like a tank and is a similar sized vehicle.
Later models had turbo diesel and earlier were naturally aspirated. It was a Nissan engine and was and is proven reliable.
If 30 mpg was possible in 1981 it is a sad state of SUV MPG in 2004 when most SUV's obtain less than 20 mpg.

I will be seriously considering the Liberty diesel upon it's availability.

caribou1

I contacted VM motori (Detroit Diesel in Italy) and was redirected to our national DaimlerChrysler technical inspector.
He said there is a software patch to correct the cold start problem. It's a free upgrade for the 2.5L and already included in the 2.8L CRD.

theronrohr

If you go over to Jeep's UK website you can see the specs for their 2.8L CRD Cherokees. They give the power as 148hp/266lb-ft. They rate the mileage as 22.2 Urban cycle and 34.4 Extra urban cycle. Assuming those are comparable to our city/highway and remembering that UK gallons are slightly bigger than US gals I would guess that's around 20/30mpg with the 5sp automatic trans that they also have over there. Also note how the options are fewer and more expensive - just like BMWs over here!

caribou1

In Europe, if we start picking options or refuse options, we have to wait several months to get a vehicle. Packaged vehicles usually have short delivery and reflect quite well the market. The day I bought my Jeep, I test drove a demo truck saturday at 2:00 PM, at 2:30 I signed the check then picked it up the following tuesday morning at 9:00 AM with a full tank of fuel. That's efficiency...

sebring95

Do you normally not get to test-drive the actually vehicle you're buying? I generally like to drive the exact vehicle I'm buying.

When I bought my Tahoe, I took a test drive and the vehicle had three miles on it. When I returned I asked them to keep the vehicle for the weekend (they allowed me, although some dealerships won't do this) for an extended test drive. Put about 200 miles on it over the weekend and by Monday I was sure that was the vehicle I wanted. Paid for it monday morning and took the truck back home. My Cherokee was shipped in from a dealer 200 miles, but I still took it for a drive before paying.

One of the local VW dealers emailed me last week that they were taking orders for the new Passat. I told them I'd come drive one when they get it in. I don't like buying something I've never driven.

caribou1

In France dealers have special garage plates and pay a yearly tax per set of plates. (initially this tax was for financing the government pension plan of the elderly people)
Only professionals pay this tax nowdays, so if you buy the demo vehicle when it's almost new, they don't really appreciate. Statistically this is part of their fixed expenses.
My Jeep had 5KM on the speedo in the showroom (no plates), and 6KM when I took it home. By law we have a 7 days retraction period on all sales contracts without justification. This put an end to certain abuses, and consumers have a "Hidden Defect" clause valid over a much longer period.
Our local VW dealer proposed me a Passat station wagon packaged with GPS and leather interior knowing I have a dog and sometimes carry an old person. Without the GPS and leather I had to wait more than 6 months. And VW sells the GPS at 3500Euros. Perhaps they haven't heard about Garmin products...

colorado1974

Official word from Chrysler is that the Liberty Diesel will arrive on showrooms 10/15/04.

colorado1974

Why the negative sentiment?

colorado1974

I believe that you are an isolated occurance. Jeep Liberty has outsold every other competitive vehicle in the last 3 years because of how great of package it represents.

Our dealership has not had a problem with one Liberty in the last 3 years. The only problem I have had with mine is that I filled the turn signal lens with water while crossing a 3 foot deep ditch.

elemint

because of how great of package it represents...

It would be a great car IF it had much better cargo capacity and MUCH better MPG.

jeepmama

Purchased my Jeep Diesel Limited (2.8L)in November '03 and just love it. I avg 10L/100km's (it's an automatic) - (I think that's around 28mpg), I live in the country, so that's h/way driving (averaging around 100kms/hr).

At 1000 revs, I'm doing 100km/hr. It just purrs along - I couldn't be happier. I've driven through the Blue Mountains and I've never had a problem with lacking in power and I was carrying nearly 500lbs of lugguage, plenty of pull.

It has a bit of lag when you come to a sudden stop, I'm meaning if you have to brake hard and then immediately accelerate - it briefly hesitates and then suddenly takes off and jolts you a bit. Otherwise, in the city it has no problems with take-offs at the lights, in fact I leave most other vehicles behind. I find it very zippy and it's excellent for parking etc being a bit smaller sized. I test drove a Honda CRV and a RAV4 (2.0L) and I reckon the Jeep Turbo/Diesel is a much, much better vehicle, I think it has far more power. My only complaint being a woman is when filling up with diesel, the pumps are so damn filthy (oily)- carry a rag if you get one!!!

theronrohr

Thanks for the post jeepmama - I'm sure everyone on this forum is eagerly awaiting any personal opinions of this vehecle ahead of its debut (keeping fingers crossed) in the US! I've got a TDI Golf and I've decided I probably won't buy another gasoline vehicle unless its a sporty car.

The only thing my Golf is missing is a 5th gear (its a 4 speed automatic). It's running at 2000rpm at 55mph and 3000 at 80mph. But that's already too high when it's so happy at low rpm. 1000rpm at ~60mph sounds great. Do you have any idea of how refined/noisy the diesel in the Jeep is compared to the European diesel cars that are around nowadays?

Have fun!

colorado1974

You sound like a Ford salesman trying to sway buyers.

Cargo capacity....Liberty leads the field with the most payload/towing and cargo volume.

Fuel economy...I get 24 hwy mileage all the time (with synthetic oil and a MOPAR dual exhaust).

I am not alone, most of the people that I talk to with them get the same as I.

In my 3 decades in the car business I know two truths. 1. If people are at all dissatisfied with thier car, they lie about it in a negative way. ie 11 mpg, sluggish etc.

2. People lie about thier car anyway. ie if they get screwed in a car deal, they tell everyone they beat thier local dealer's price by thousands; thier trade never leaked oil when they owned it; they have perfect credit; etc etc.

So you fit into one of two scenarios:

1. Evidentally your Liberty didn't make you happy so you are coming up with reasons to justify it. OR.....

2. You are a salesman for another make trying to persuade people...

caribou1

I confirm your statements about the Jeep. I am using the 2.8L CRD in a highly populated area near Geneva Switzerland. I have to drive 70 Kms everyday to get to work. Leaving my house for any destination greater than 50 Kms means I have to reach another valley. I get 10.3 Liters/100 KM as an average over 15000 KM of all types of road conditions.

bpeebles

(renegaded) You are kidding...right? If a DC employee were to 'give out' the text of TSBs, I bet his job would be in jeperady.

DC would prefer if NO ONE sees the text of TSBs. A TSB is tatamount to admitting there is somthing wrong. (just like you suggest.)

The way that most automakers approach TSBs is "dont ask, dont tell" ...meaning, if a customer does not complain, do not OFFER a free fix to a happy customer. (That costs $$)

If you REALLY desire to see the text to the TSBs, simply subscribe to the ALLDATA website offering the text to the TSBs. Perhaps you could get other Liberty owners to chip in on this 'subscribtion' and you can be the central 'looker upper of TSBs' for the Liberty. (this has been done for other vehicles here in Edmunds)

Additionally, do not confuse the difference between a TSB and a RECALL. These are totally different animals that are pretty much unlrelated.

A RECALL is , by federal law, a SAFETY item that must be mailed to all vehicle owners. This costs big $$ and is rarely done unless human life is in jeperady.

For a TSB, the automakers are under no obligation to tell customers about TSBs. A TSB is basically an 'internal memo' to help the dealship mechanics isolate problems.

caribou1

I just found the sticker on my tranny: 462 RFE.
It's not the 545 as described in all posts or even Chrysler publicity I ever came across.
Does anyone know something about this model?

stever

Lots of libraries subscribe to Alldata, or will if you ask them. Mine does. One of these days I may take a look...

Steve, Host

moparbad

Delay, delay, delay. Since the Liberty will not show up with diesel until Sept-Nov timeframe I'm going to suspend my thoughts about it. I expect to see many more diesel options available in 2006 and now that Liberty will not show up until the 05 model year I'm thinking it may be wise to simply wait until 06 to consider the purchase of another diesel.

ezshift5

..ez

caribou1

From experience, the diesel engines are more economical (less polluting) for city driving and off-road assuming that they are used for periods of more than 20 minutes and well tuned. I found that average diesel consumption is lower during acceleration. Most taxis have been using diesels for ages over here. The counterpart is the possible cause of lung irritation. African countries have recuperated the old european diesel vehicles that were intended for demolition and discovered increasing lung + throat cancer.

colorado1974

You forget that we have emissions devices on all of our cars that cut 10% or more of our fuel economy, the Liberty Diesel is no different.

There is no way that the 2.8L TDI is going to be $8000. Hell, the HO Cummins is only a $4500 option.

How do you explain that the Honda CRV has had more recalls than the Liberty?

TSB's are nothing big. They are basically a memo from the factory giving us a heads up on certain reoccuring problems they are finding out about.