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Comments
In several previous posts I mentionned my engine whined at 2100 RPM and was irritating after some time. This occurs while driving at 60-70 MPH. Perhaps the cold air of the winter season propagates parasitic noise a bit better.
I do know that the diesel in the PT Cruiser has failed to impress compared to other modern diesels in power, refinement, and mpg. I'm not sure the source of the diesel in the PT since it is denied to us stateside.
TIA
--'rocco
tidester, host
http://www.ouestfrance-auto.com/annonces_automobiles/chrysler_pt_- cruiser_2.2_crd_eb_essai.html
In normal use, the average engine speed is close to 2000 RPM on the road and the auto tranny shifts at 2100, where the torque starts. It's maximum stands around 3600 RPM.
In off-road conditions, i.e. climing or escaping from sharp obstacles,I'm usually between 1400-1800 RPM. I think it's in this specific condition that the diesel differs from the gasser due to low end torque (helped by the coupler in my case). The manual shift 2.5CRD is not as comfortable when facing obstacles.
ah, yeah, that's what I thought at first ...states which border California. But, Bruce (bpeeples) made it sound like he's governed by CARB in Vermont and that Vermont will be one of the 5 states, so I thought maybe the term "border states" meant something else.
Doing a little research, I see that most states are governed by CARB regualtions anyway. So precisely, just what are the 5 states that aren't going to be allowed to sell the Jeep Liberty diesel? Or alternatively, will it be that those 5 states will prohibit the sale of new diesel Libertys?
http://www.shieldsharper.com/carb/carb.asp
--'rocco
Diesel vapour does not ignite like gas. You need a concentrated heat source to ignite diesel.
We've seen serious truck/bus road accidents with large spills of diesel fuel that were not burning.
People exposed to concentrated gasoline vapour can suffer from headache, but diesel is different.
tidester, host
CA, NY, MA, ME & VT.
You cannot buy any diesel vehicle that weighs below 6000 lbs in these 5 states. I am not sure why people call them border states. I call them CARB states. These 5 states are the only ones that adopted strict emission laws that current diesels cannot pass. The picture may change in 2006, when low sulfur fuel will become available in all of North America. By that time all 50 states will the CARB states. And (I think) there will be even stricter emission laws in 2007, so it's an ongoing battle.
2FastDre.
All cleared up! ...well, sort of. *laughs* Thanx for taking the time to answer all my questions.
So the new diesel Liberty won't be available for sale in those 5 states, eh?
--'rocco
I drive my "upgraded" Lib already one month.
Better cold starts
Better torque development
Little bit better fuel economy
And - surprise: Much quieter engine!
Thank you, Caribou1!
But it is on background level and does not disturb. I will try it on still stand today and let you know.
quote-A 2.8-liter common rail diesel engine equipped with a five-speed automatic transmission is optional on 2005 4x4 Liberty Sport and Limited models. The engine, supplied by VM Motori of Italy, is rated at an estimated 160 hpat 3,800 rpm. Jeep is billing the model as the first mid-sized SUV diesel in the United States and is touting improved fuel economy and reduced emissions. -end
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7018&sid=17- 3&n=156
Jeep has some info. on the Liberty CRD on it's website.
Lada offers a 60HP diesel, but many people of good will can't afford to pay more.
In a recent Jeep owner survey, I had to answer the question: "Does your vehicle reflect your standard of living?". In practice, yesterday I paid over 400 USD for my first 12,000 miles service. Half of the bill is for labour (2.5 hours), the rest for consumables. This hurts but it helps Jeep staff to keep their jobs.
There is a clear tendency to make fast money by all means. I prefer to hire a gardener than having a yuppy waxing the interior of the truck while I get the coffee and biscuits.
About the diesel specialists, I must say this was true in the old days. Nowdays it smells lavander in the shop, and repairs are done by swapping printed circuits.
Is it possible that we can get back on topic and not have a personal vendetta due to personal vehicle problems? They will not be solved here!
The five states that won't be selling the CRD are California, Massachusetts, Maine, New York and Vermont.
I'm glad I don't presently reside in any of those states. I plan to relocate in a little over a year from now and the state I'm moving to isn't one of the five either...
yay!!
--'rocco
285k (but still able to get about 50 MPG as long as we keep it under 60 on the freeway. (We get passed a LOT)...ez
I pay cash then drive it into the ground (about 12 years), after that, I have easilly saved up enough to pay cash for the next vehicle.
You dont even OWN your car until it it paied for!!
...lovin the 52MPG on my TDI 8-)
My point is that in order to make an informed decision on buying a Jeep diesel vs a gas, the break even point can be looked at in miles or in time. The variables are obvious.
Oh, and just in case you haven't kept track of the proposed mpg on the diesel, it's just a bit lower than 52 mpg so it will likely take a bit longer [time or miles] to break even. I drive about 5-6K per year and I'm not alone in that regard. The diesel will cost more and initially discounted less. It will be interesting to see the actual figures.
Can not predict the future, however, the past shows that diesel trucks and cars retain and return value of initial higher purchase price when sold.
I love the torque of a diesel, the inherent thermal efficiency of a diesel, and the fact that diesel fuel can be refined from plant oils, animal fats and petroleum. When petroleum is gone, diesel will still be a viable fuel.
He was even hinting that they may not even get one in stock to show ...that they'd only be taking orders and delivering. I find that difficult to believe.
He was actually trying to talk me out of buying one. He said that he would wait a year or more until the novelty has worn off and they have proven their initial reliability
Does anybody have any information to confirm the "limited supply" rumor? I've seen various articles that state that only 5,000 will be made available the first year in N.A. (U.S. and Canada). Any more current information?
--'rocco
By the way, sirroco22, have you spent any time test driving the gas Liberty? I'd be interested in your impressions.
Yeah, I have driven Libertys and am relatively impressed. It has more of a European feel than an American feel which is a good thing. I can see the Daimler influence on the Liberty since fit and finish seem more "German" too. Not quite up to Audi or BMW standards but definitely more German than other American SUVs.
I'm looking for something to tow behind a diesel motorhome so I want something light. The liberty is a little heavier than I want but will do if it impresses me enough. I really should be considering a Jetta or Golf TDI for this purpose but I'd like a vehicle that I can drive into the mountains during the winter so 4WD or AWD would be appreciated.
As far as reliability is concerned, I think the Italian engine will be okay for it's already in use in Europe, right? It isn't a brand new engine so we have to hope that most of the bugs will have already been worked out. What bothers me is Chrysler's overall reliability ratings in general and the Liberty's specifically. I just wish they were as good as the Japanese brands and models.
--'rocco
I've also owned many VW products through the years and maybe they haven't been the most reliable cars I've owned but they've definitely been the most satisfying to drive. My screen name is taken from probably the most favorite car I've had ...a '79 Scirocco. Not a bad car for reliability but nowhere near, say, the Toyotas I've owned. I presently have a 3 yr. old Audi A4 --another VW product-- which has given me no problems at all and is another extremely fun and satisfying car to drive. For me, VWs have been much more reliable than any domestic car I've owned but, of course, not nearly as trouble-free as any of the Japanese brands I've driven.
The dealership where I bought the A4 is also a Jeep and VW dealer. Their service loaner fleet consists of Libertys, so whenever I bring my A4 in for service, they give me a Liberty to drive for the day. So, it's these incidences where I've really had the chance to put the Liberty through its paces.
Last week I had an oil change done on the A4 (part of Audi's free service during the first 4 years) and decided just to wait for the car while it was being serviced. While talking to my salesman about the Liberty, he made those comments I cited in my previous post and then suggested I take a diesel Jetta wagon out for a spin. I was extremely impressed with how the Jetta TDI handled and accelerated. The interior fit and finish was impeccable and there were no squeaks or rattles ...maybe because the wagons are still assembled in Germany? --I don't know. I did notice, however, that all the Libertys I've driven all have had some very minor interior piece rattling or squeaking. This may have been due to the dealership just putting them in service as loaners and not giving them a good pre-delivery inspection ...again, I don't know.
Still, I'd take a chance on a Liberty if everything else conforms to my specifications and I could get one for a good price. I doubt if that will happen because during the first year of availability, I'm sure that that they will be commanding a premium price that will undoubtedly be substantially above MSRP.
I may wait for the '06 model where we might hope that they'll be more plentiful and all the "issues" might have already been addressed. That is if I haven't already purchased a TDI.
It's been awhile since I've owned a Chrysler product, and I haven't had fond memories of the ones I have had. But, I'm still willing to take a chance on a Liberty CRD.
--'rocco