Jeep Liberty Diesel

134689224

Comments

  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    I own a Liberty CRD and often travel in an Audi A4 TDI. These are two different worlds that I've been comparing since 8 months. My Liberty Diesel is very well finished inside, does not rattle nor squeak, gives me the impression it can turn around a dime going forward or in reverse. The A4 has much more "luxury" in the detail, is as quiet as a lead bell, but is not as practical for manoeuvring. The fantastic off-road capabilities of the Jeep I have to pay in Decibels, and few people like to squat my rear seats...
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    caribou, thanks so much for the input. I think I'd enjoy seeing a Jeep CRD parked next to the A4 in my garage! The more people I talk to, the more I seem to be getting convinced that the CRD may be the better way to go. We'll see.

    I wish they'd offer an A4 TDI here in the states. I'd seriously take a look at trading for one if they did.

    --'rocco
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    The funny correlation between the two vehicles is the inverse MPG proportion. It's exactly 1:2, just like the height. In previous posts, I tried to get a response from other CRD users about the turbo noise, and I found that both the MB and VM diesels have noisy turbos whilst the VW is more quiet. This is true when the weather is colder than 15 degrees Celcius. With spring coming along, my engine is much quieter and performs beautifully. For your information, I didn't have to add any oil during my first 12,000 miles, cold starts needed about 5 seconds heating of the glow plugs below 0 Celcius, and now the heating time is 2 seconds in the morning. It's really nice.
  • erikerik Member Posts: 21
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    The correct fuel for any modern diesel engine is not widely available in the USA. I have seen the "target date" for this to happen move to the right too many times for me to beleive it anymore.

    I am sooooo glad that I bought my 2003 VW TDI while they were still available in Vermont. Starting in 2004, they are no longer legal to register until the proper fuel becomes available.

    Call your congressmen and complain about the availabiliy of ELSD fuel. The boneneads in Washington are missing a great oppertunity to cut the fuel-consumption in the USA significantly ...... NO WAIT! That means that the income from fuel-taxes will go down too.... we cant have that!

    (I just read an artical in todays paper about the deteriating roads... they are now blaming the efficent cars we drive for reducing fuel-tax income so there is not enough $$ to fix the roads.)
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Assuming your diesel fuel is cheaper by 20%, you do a lot of city driving under heavy traffic, you pull a heavy trailor or/and your off-road environment imposes torque and low gear, then the diesel is the proper choice. For normal dirt roads or long highway trips the diesel CRD will not be of great interrest. I think it's overdesigned for sunday driving. Compared to the asian and continental 4WD diesels, I feel it's a bit more powerful and heavy. I wouldn't take it into a mud pond, but with the low gear engaged I went up and down a dry mountain road at the limit of tire adherence and the diesel engine was running without any effort. (equivalent to 1hour 20mins climb ~1000 Feet)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Oregon is trying to figure out a way to charge people by the number of miles driven, taking mpg entirely out of the equation.

    Steve, Host
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    So heavier vehicles don't pay taxes comensurate with their greater wear and tear on roads and bridges. Makes as much sense as not paying guzzler taxes, or having to meet stricter EPA standards for mileage, safety, and emmisions.

    Any idea if other DC vehicles will get diesels, and when is the Liberty due out?
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Steve,
    That almost reminds me of when I was in Singapore a couple years back. They have a LAW that requires all vehicles leaving Singapore to have a full tank of fuel. (There are 'toll booths' set up at all exit roads from the country to check your fuel level...and sell you fuel if it is not full)

    I saw in the local newspaper there that somone was caught with a switch under the dashboard that made the tank appear full. If you know anything about Singapore, the punishment was not very nice. 8-(
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    That is so typical. Taxing fuel makes a lot more sense then taxing driving. Of course, politicians don't want to do anything to actually encourage greater efficiency by individuals. They just want to push it off to the evil corporations (whom they will then blame for not making more efficient vehicles), not realizing the damage they are doing to the free market. Also, the comment about more efficient cars reducing fuel taxes for roads points up more government idiocy. In fact, the overall automotive fleet fuel efficiency has gone down and fuel taxes have gone up because of the idiotic way CAFE was implemented, pushing consumers towards the purchases of SUVs and trucks.

    Now that my rant is over I will move back on topic. I am very intrigued by the diesel Liberty, but my wife and I and our two large dogs do a lot of traveling, so the Liberty has been off my short list because the interior (particularly cargo) room is somewhat limited, especially in consideration of the fact that the seats won't go flat. Three choices are:

    1. Dogs in the back seat (bad because of the short seat cushion and foot wells)

    2. Dogs on slanted part of folded seat (bad because they cant get comfortable on a slope)

    3. Dogs in the small back part. Bad if the seats are up with cargo in the seats and dogs in that tiny little area, or bad with the seats down as stuff will slide on to them.

    Believe it or not we got a Subaru Forester for my wife because it was easier to carry dogs us and stuff. But now I want an SUV with better off road capability to replace my pickup.

    Has anyone heard about diesel in the new Grand Cherokee? Sorry about the length of this rant.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Has anyone heard about diesel in the new Grand Cherokee? Sorry about the length of this rant

    I haven't heard anything about a grand cherokee diesel. Maybe they'll guage the interest in the liberty first. Not sure of your budget, but the VW Touareg has a diesel available. I'm going to consider that as a replacement for my Tahoe when the extended version with 3rd row arrives later this year. 0-60 in 6 seconds and epa of 23mpg highway. I'm guessing you can beat that by several mpg on long trips though as someone mentioned they had gotten 27mpg on the highway. The Touareg does fairly well off-road as well particularly with the adjustable air suspension, locking differentials, and such.
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    My understanding that the diesel Touareg will be pushing $50k. Great vehicle, but a little rich for my blood.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Have you considered having a small trailor for the occasional trips when you have your two dogs + luggage? Do you often go off-road with full cargo?
    My wife and I get around with the Liberty + 1 dog (40 lbs) for long holiday trips or 4 occupants + soft luggage and cargo curtain with no dog.
    Over here the Grand Cherokee comes with the 5 cylinder MB 2.7 L CRD. The difference in price buys you a small car.
  • dwrestledwrestle Member Posts: 72
    the numbers on the grand cherokee diesel.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Here is the french Jeep url:
    http://www.jeep.fr/la_gamme/grand_cherokee/performances/performan- ces.asp
    The difference in cost is about 15000 Euros (~18,000 USD) more than the Liberty. Few people will risk going off-road with this truck. It just looks too good!
  • houstonkenhoustonken Member Posts: 28
    Any projected gas mileage for the diesel Grand Cherokee ?
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    Yes, I need to get some kind of trailer anyway if I switch my pick-up truck to an SUV, but I am not sure how handy that would be for typical traveling. In consideration of the weight of the Liberty, which is not all that different from the Grand Cherokee, I wish it had a little more room or efficient packaging. I guess from a European perspective, the Liberty is a fairly large car and you probably do not want to be driving anything much bigger through the older and more densely developed cities over there.

    I am a little surprised at the price spread between the Liberty and Grand Cherokee in Europe. It is much narrower here. The bottom line is a vehicle the size of a Grand Cherokee with a diesel would allow me to be a spoiled American with a larger vehicle with adequate power while still burning less fuel. America needs to wake up and get with the program regarding diesels. To use the old advertising line, today's diesels are not your father's Oldsmobile (and that is a good thing).
  • she1122she1122 Member Posts: 33
    I am interested in the Jeep Liberty diesel. So today I stopped at a jeep dealership in Portland,Oregon and asked when one would be available to see. They said not for another year. I was under the impression that it is coming out in the next few months.
    When is it coming out?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Oct. or Nov. this year as 2005 model. Maybe even a bit earlier.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    I found only one person in France who posted his comments about the Grand Cherokee 2.7 CRD.
    After 25,000 miles his average combined fuel consumption is between 11 and 12 liters per 100 Km. This person also pulls a 2.5 ton trailer at 70 MPH going uphill...
    On the Liberty 2.8 CRD I've been getting a steady 10.3 liters over 14,000 miles. So the Grand Cherokee seems to take ~15% more fuel overall. This is considered very good here.
  • houstonkenhoustonken Member Posts: 28
    I did the math very quickly. Looks like 62 miles using 2.7 gallons or 23 miles per gallon. Frankly, its a little disappointing.

    Is your driving mostly in the highway or in the city ?
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    You may seem dissapointed by these figures, but they are still lower by ~25% compared to a gas engine in the city and off-road. My daily drive is 30 miles @65-70MPH, and 10 miles @30-35MPH in the city + ~10 minutes total wait time to cross the border back and forth + 12 street lights. The figure I get to go to work is ~10.8 liters/100KM. When I include the weekend driving ~150 miles, then I get 10.3 liters. Over long travels @55MPH, I get ~9.6 liters.
    These figures are slightly higher than those of a gas mid-size sedan, but you have to consider the extra weight and the ability of the Jeep to climb anywhere, even not using LOW gear. I recently had to use the LOW gear going downhill on a mountain trail, but didn't need it to climb what looked like a staircase. Since you can do this even in high gear, you burn more fuel than needed during the everyday travel. I have the impression that the diesel brings driving comfort and less risk of stalling during effort. I noticed that the diesel engine was most efficient @1800RPM, and the automatic gearbox is perfect in this specific combination. As long as you don't go beyond 2100 RPM, the overriding clutch doesn't close and you get a smooth + powerful transmission that copes for the variations of load. The only source of stress comes from the passengers who want to get out...
  • aaron_taaron_t Member Posts: 301
    23 miles per gallon. Frankly, its a little disappointing.

    Have you considered what the 3.7L gas/automatic owners get? Mostly 16-18mpg. The EPA ratings of the 4WD Liberty are City/Highway:

    2004 3.7L/auto
    17/21 mpg

    2005 2.8 CRD/auto
    21/27 mpg
  • bob tbob t Member Posts: 1
    I checked the website and VM claims that the 2.5 L CRD is also going to be marketed in America. As this engine is mated to the manual transmission it would be my choice in a Liberty Sport. It is purported to get about 10% better fuel economy than the 2.8 L CRD. Any ideas if/when this package will be available for the USA?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    I've seen nothing about the 2.5L being offered.
  • roachroach Member Posts: 3
    I read that DC is only going to produce 5,000 of the diesels for the US market. No indication as to how much extra the diesel version is going to cost. Diesel engine will be available in the Sport/Limited models. All models will have automatic transmission. Diesel not available in California, Massachusetts, Maine, New York or Vermont. Specs are here:

    http://scoop.daimlerchrysler.com/pdf/product/liberty05_specs.pdf
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Ordering for the Liberty diesel is expected to be available in July. 2005 Liberty ordering guide is already available for the regular Liberty.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    I cross checked the Liberty 2005 US specs with the French specs:
    In the US, the truck comes with tires two sizes smaller than here. This is enough to give better mileage than what I am getting (~23MPG/10.3 liters). The transmission ratios are the same, except for the reverse gear that's 3:1 on mine (same as the first gear). My tranny is labeled 462 and perhaps yours will be a 545. It's sticker is visible on the oil sump from the left side of the truck.
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    "All models will have automatic transmission"

    Wait a sec... no manual tranny offered with the CRD??? image

    I guess I won't be gettin' one then. I need (want) a manual.

    --'rocco
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Three problems with manual trannys these days.

    1. More difficult to pass emissions testing.

    2. Requires extra money/time to engineer/certify an additional drivetrain.

    3. Most buyers want automatics, so #1 and #2 become cost prohibitive on low volume models.
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    thanx for the comments, Sebring. All the hype I've heard so far is that the CRD would be offered with a manual. The engineering has already been done since it's been sold in Europe with a manual for quite some time now, right?

    I'm sure disappointed.

    --'rocco
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    They charge extra for automatic transmissions. Even if it is "standard." And sirroco22, you're going to need a much bigger sad face when you see the premium DC charges for the diesel engine and the dealers charge over sticker to reflect consumer frenzy.
  • zambonikanezambonikane Member Posts: 1
    I was researching diesels and am a current happy cherokee owner (94 with 170000miles) when i stumbled upon this site that shows you how to make biodiesel for as little as $0.60 a gallon. I looks a little involved, but could be worth it as it is supposedly better for your engine.
    http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#3biod
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Since 2002 the only engine and transmission in the press is the 2.8L with automatic. This is same combo as in Europe. The engine that is offered with manual is the 2.5L. There is a blurb on the VW Motori site stating that the 2.5L will be exported to North America, however, it does not state which product it will be used in. If the sales are good for the 5000 2.8L w/ auto there may be future hope for a manual transmission.
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    I agree, Jayrider! *lol*

    How much do you think the premium will be?

    moparbad-- ah, that's interesting. I thought I've been reading that it will be offered in both automatic and manual here in the states but maybe I wasn't reading as attentively as I should have been. Thanx for the info and the encouragement.

    --'rocco
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I'm not sure the diesel will add much to the cost of a similar V6 model as far as comparing sticker prices, however you likely won't be getting any discounts or rebates off of sticker like the gas models. You can fairly easily buy a gasser liberty for about $3500 off sticker. I have my doubts about any of that savings being available for the diesel. There may be a few dealers that try to sell them for above sticker. Never fails when a dealer gets something that sells decent that they try to make all their money off the ones they had to give away.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    From what I read, it seems to me that in the US you will be offered a more 'city+highway' than 'offroad' truck. Over here this size of diesel engine cost 1,500 USD more than gassers.
    I've covered 15,000 miles so far, and apart from the noisy turbo when the air is cool/cold, it runs beautifully.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    My guess is that you'd want to wait until your car is out of warranty like that '94 to do the homemade biodiesel:

    "The risk for car owners like Cummins, whose vehicle is still under warranty, is that car manufacturers typically void warranties when the fuel system is modified. Whether dealers honor warranties for components unrelated to the fuel system may depend on the dealer, Mead said."

    Burning veggie oil in your car takes strain off fuel budget (Post-Standard)

    Steve, Host
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    http://www.ufop.de/download/RZ_Ufop_Bus_engl.pdf
    The main problem seems to be the catalyser in the tail pipe that differs.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Biodiese requires no modifications to vehicle or vehicle fuel system. It is SVO or WVO that require modifications to fuel system and possible warranty problems.
    Only VW has issues with biodiesel in North America and they allow it in Europe.

    Liberty engine will be fine on biodiesel.
  • roachroach Member Posts: 3
    caribou1 ~ since you are Liberty diesel owner what is the recommended service interval for oil changes? Besides oil changes anything else recommended by DC for routine service?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    What is the required oil for the Euro Jeep Liberty Diesel. VW TDI for 2004 requires an uncommon 505.01 spec. oil.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    20,000 Kilometers (12,000 miles) for normal use, 12,000 Km (7,500 miles) for intensive use.
    The service covers engine oil + oil filter change, diesel fuel filter inspection to purge the eventual trapped water, air conditionning pollen filter replacement and all levels + disk inspection. I don't know yet if I'm running on semi-synthetic or synthetic oil, but my engine didn't burn or loose any oil over this interval. In the past, most new engines needed a 'breaking-in' period where one could feel a 'better' pull and then have lower engine temperature; this is no longer the case. The white fumes (water condensation) Renegader mentionned in a previous post I get as well depending on the weather. But there are no black fumes during acceleration, nor any stain behind the truck where I've parked it overnight since 9 months.
    During the winter my Jeep stays outside, and I usually warm it up while I get the ice and snow off. I've not detected any smell of unburned fuel when the engine was cold. I believe that the automatic transmission helps keeping the exhaust clean, because you never overload the engine at low revs where it can't burn all the fuel. Most common rail diesels over here emit a LOT of particles and fumes when people floor the pedal and go to high revs after a wait period of a few minutes in a queue. The Liberty doesn't.
  • roachroach Member Posts: 3
    According to Automotive News DC is not going to limit production of the Liberty diesel.

    The Chrysler group will build as many Jeep Liberty diesels as customers want to buy, CEO Dieter Zetsche said.

    In December, the automaker said it would test the market for small diesels with a run of 5,000 units of the Liberty in the 2005 model year. But those plans have been revised.

    &#147;That (5,000 per year) by no means is any cap,&#148; Zetsche said Sunday at the show. &#147;If the customer wants to have many, many more, we will supply them.&#148; <i/>

    http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=41937

    Also DC has said there will NOT be an extra charge for the diesel,

    "We presume there will be some premium for it, but we will wind up subsidizing it," says Bernard I. Robertson, senior vice president-engineering technologies and regulatory affairs.<i/>

    http://articles.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3165/is_1_39/ai_9- 7179300
  • dvghostdvghost Member Posts: 1
    Are they really not going to sell this in CA? I was thinking I'd I'd just found my perfect car -- ready for the desert trails, and decent fuel economy. Waah!
  • f111df111d Member Posts: 114
    Will emission control laws hamstring the diesel light vehicle market? asks ABI Research
    http://www.abiresearch.com/abiprdisplay2.jsp?pressid=273
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    has anyone bought a Liberty Diesel in the States yet? Sounds like a welcome improvement. My dealer in CA, says not in 2005. He could sell all he could get. He has daily calls for them. We have the ECD-1 diesel available in CA. What is with our state government?
  • 2003_vtec2003_vtec Member Posts: 7
    Not yet. Jeep is being very secretive as to when these will be available. Dealers around here (Connecticut) are clueless. If I cold get pricing and options information, I'd put in an order tomorrow. So far Jeep is making this impossible.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Dealer I've been in contact with states that the pricing and options for the diesel are expected to be available in July with actual vehicles expected as early as September and as late as November. If pricing is favorable I'll order in July and be patient. Been promised invoice pricing:)
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