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Comments
I wish they'd offer an A4 TDI here in the states. I'd seriously take a look at trading for one if they did.
--'rocco
I am sooooo glad that I bought my 2003 VW TDI while they were still available in Vermont. Starting in 2004, they are no longer legal to register until the proper fuel becomes available.
Call your congressmen and complain about the availabiliy of ELSD fuel. The boneneads in Washington are missing a great oppertunity to cut the fuel-consumption in the USA significantly ...... NO WAIT! That means that the income from fuel-taxes will go down too.... we cant have that!
(I just read an artical in todays paper about the deteriating roads... they are now blaming the efficent cars we drive for reducing fuel-tax income so there is not enough $$ to fix the roads.)
Steve, Host
Any idea if other DC vehicles will get diesels, and when is the Liberty due out?
That almost reminds me of when I was in Singapore a couple years back. They have a LAW that requires all vehicles leaving Singapore to have a full tank of fuel. (There are 'toll booths' set up at all exit roads from the country to check your fuel level...and sell you fuel if it is not full)
I saw in the local newspaper there that somone was caught with a switch under the dashboard that made the tank appear full. If you know anything about Singapore, the punishment was not very nice. 8-(
Now that my rant is over I will move back on topic. I am very intrigued by the diesel Liberty, but my wife and I and our two large dogs do a lot of traveling, so the Liberty has been off my short list because the interior (particularly cargo) room is somewhat limited, especially in consideration of the fact that the seats won't go flat. Three choices are:
1. Dogs in the back seat (bad because of the short seat cushion and foot wells)
2. Dogs on slanted part of folded seat (bad because they cant get comfortable on a slope)
3. Dogs in the small back part. Bad if the seats are up with cargo in the seats and dogs in that tiny little area, or bad with the seats down as stuff will slide on to them.
Believe it or not we got a Subaru Forester for my wife because it was easier to carry dogs us and stuff. But now I want an SUV with better off road capability to replace my pickup.
Has anyone heard about diesel in the new Grand Cherokee? Sorry about the length of this rant.
I haven't heard anything about a grand cherokee diesel. Maybe they'll guage the interest in the liberty first. Not sure of your budget, but the VW Touareg has a diesel available. I'm going to consider that as a replacement for my Tahoe when the extended version with 3rd row arrives later this year. 0-60 in 6 seconds and epa of 23mpg highway. I'm guessing you can beat that by several mpg on long trips though as someone mentioned they had gotten 27mpg on the highway. The Touareg does fairly well off-road as well particularly with the adjustable air suspension, locking differentials, and such.
My wife and I get around with the Liberty + 1 dog (40 lbs) for long holiday trips or 4 occupants + soft luggage and cargo curtain with no dog.
Over here the Grand Cherokee comes with the 5 cylinder MB 2.7 L CRD. The difference in price buys you a small car.
http://www.jeep.fr/la_gamme/grand_cherokee/performances/performan- ces.asp
The difference in cost is about 15000 Euros (~18,000 USD) more than the Liberty. Few people will risk going off-road with this truck. It just looks too good!
I am a little surprised at the price spread between the Liberty and Grand Cherokee in Europe. It is much narrower here. The bottom line is a vehicle the size of a Grand Cherokee with a diesel would allow me to be a spoiled American with a larger vehicle with adequate power while still burning less fuel. America needs to wake up and get with the program regarding diesels. To use the old advertising line, today's diesels are not your father's Oldsmobile (and that is a good thing).
When is it coming out?
After 25,000 miles his average combined fuel consumption is between 11 and 12 liters per 100 Km. This person also pulls a 2.5 ton trailer at 70 MPH going uphill...
On the Liberty 2.8 CRD I've been getting a steady 10.3 liters over 14,000 miles. So the Grand Cherokee seems to take ~15% more fuel overall. This is considered very good here.
Is your driving mostly in the highway or in the city ?
These figures are slightly higher than those of a gas mid-size sedan, but you have to consider the extra weight and the ability of the Jeep to climb anywhere, even not using LOW gear. I recently had to use the LOW gear going downhill on a mountain trail, but didn't need it to climb what looked like a staircase. Since you can do this even in high gear, you burn more fuel than needed during the everyday travel. I have the impression that the diesel brings driving comfort and less risk of stalling during effort. I noticed that the diesel engine was most efficient @1800RPM, and the automatic gearbox is perfect in this specific combination. As long as you don't go beyond 2100 RPM, the overriding clutch doesn't close and you get a smooth + powerful transmission that copes for the variations of load. The only source of stress comes from the passengers who want to get out...
Have you considered what the 3.7L gas/automatic owners get? Mostly 16-18mpg. The EPA ratings of the 4WD Liberty are City/Highway:
2004 3.7L/auto
17/21 mpg
2005 2.8 CRD/auto
21/27 mpg
http://scoop.daimlerchrysler.com/pdf/product/liberty05_specs.pdf
In the US, the truck comes with tires two sizes smaller than here. This is enough to give better mileage than what I am getting (~23MPG/10.3 liters). The transmission ratios are the same, except for the reverse gear that's 3:1 on mine (same as the first gear). My tranny is labeled 462 and perhaps yours will be a 545. It's sticker is visible on the oil sump from the left side of the truck.
Wait a sec... no manual tranny offered with the CRD???
I guess I won't be gettin' one then. I need (want) a manual.
--'rocco
1. More difficult to pass emissions testing.
2. Requires extra money/time to engineer/certify an additional drivetrain.
3. Most buyers want automatics, so #1 and #2 become cost prohibitive on low volume models.
I'm sure disappointed.
--'rocco
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#3biod
How much do you think the premium will be?
moparbad-- ah, that's interesting. I thought I've been reading that it will be offered in both automatic and manual here in the states but maybe I wasn't reading as attentively as I should have been. Thanx for the info and the encouragement.
--'rocco
I've covered 15,000 miles so far, and apart from the noisy turbo when the air is cool/cold, it runs beautifully.
"The risk for car owners like Cummins, whose vehicle is still under warranty, is that car manufacturers typically void warranties when the fuel system is modified. Whether dealers honor warranties for components unrelated to the fuel system may depend on the dealer, Mead said."
Burning veggie oil in your car takes strain off fuel budget (Post-Standard)
Steve, Host
The main problem seems to be the catalyser in the tail pipe that differs.
Only VW has issues with biodiesel in North America and they allow it in Europe.
Liberty engine will be fine on biodiesel.
The service covers engine oil + oil filter change, diesel fuel filter inspection to purge the eventual trapped water, air conditionning pollen filter replacement and all levels + disk inspection. I don't know yet if I'm running on semi-synthetic or synthetic oil, but my engine didn't burn or loose any oil over this interval. In the past, most new engines needed a 'breaking-in' period where one could feel a 'better' pull and then have lower engine temperature; this is no longer the case. The white fumes (water condensation) Renegader mentionned in a previous post I get as well depending on the weather. But there are no black fumes during acceleration, nor any stain behind the truck where I've parked it overnight since 9 months.
During the winter my Jeep stays outside, and I usually warm it up while I get the ice and snow off. I've not detected any smell of unburned fuel when the engine was cold. I believe that the automatic transmission helps keeping the exhaust clean, because you never overload the engine at low revs where it can't burn all the fuel. Most common rail diesels over here emit a LOT of particles and fumes when people floor the pedal and go to high revs after a wait period of a few minutes in a queue. The Liberty doesn't.
The Chrysler group will build as many Jeep Liberty diesels as customers want to buy, CEO Dieter Zetsche said.
In December, the automaker said it would test the market for small diesels with a run of 5,000 units of the Liberty in the 2005 model year. But those plans have been revised.
“That (5,000 per year) by no means is any cap,” Zetsche said Sunday at the show. “If the customer wants to have many, many more, we will supply them.” <i/>
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=41937
Also DC has said there will NOT be an extra charge for the diesel,
"We presume there will be some premium for it, but we will wind up subsidizing it," says Bernard I. Robertson, senior vice president-engineering technologies and regulatory affairs.<i/>
http://articles.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3165/is_1_39/ai_9- 7179300
http://www.abiresearch.com/abiprdisplay2.jsp?pressid=273