Jeep Liberty Diesel

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Comments

  • jsymskijsymski Member Posts: 18
    I just purchased a set from SummitRacing, digital readout types, 2 1/16", the Summit brand ones.I have these same gauges in my Jetta TDI that I converted to run on Veggie (need to closely monitor temperatures for veggie conversions). I used a Pillar mount for my Jetta, but the Jeep can't use them. They make several options for mounting, and you can review that site for all options, nothing seems to be SPECIFIC for the jeep, except on that goes on the dash. I purchased mounting that "should" fit into the cubby infront of the shifter. They are dueto be delivered today, and I will install this weekend.
  • jsymskijsymski Member Posts: 18
    Caribou1, the link seems to be broken on your posting, or I dont' understand how to get to it. Sorry...?
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    http://www.allpar.com/images/autoshow/2005/diesel-28-jeep.jpg

    This link works under Linux and Windows as well ;)
  • jsymskijsymski Member Posts: 18
    Honestly, difficult to point out exactly on that picture (i'm not sure where the EGR is either, sorry...). But I can say it was BELOW the turbo in this picture and on the turbo side of the engine.

    You could easily smell it any time when then engine was running, just above the turbo when the hood was open. When the tail pipe was clogged w/the ball, you could also hear it distinctly leaking, down below the turbo. We had another CRD right next to mine w/o the problem. No odor and no leaking noise either when stuffed with ball. So it was a no brainer... Kind of embarrassed the dealership since they kept saying on the work orders "can't reproduce" "normal operation".
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    It seems you had a loose exhaust flange.
    If Allpar put their picture back on the web again, you will see the EGR is on the left hand side picture near the flywheel at 10:00 o'clock when looking at the flywheel. It's a nice picture to understand how it's put together.
  • squiddlysquiddly Member Posts: 1
    bardwell02- I have had my CRD for 3 weeks now and have noticed some of the same observations/quirks that others have (window switch positions/illumination, feeling of shift hesitation, etc.) While poking around the dealership's parts dept., you know, looking for goodies to buy, the adviser that takes care of my wife's car "warned" me of the possibility of a connection becoming loose on either the entering or exiting side of the turbo. He said he had seen or read about it just last week and wanted to let me know about it and to not be alarmed. This may be something to look at. Also, I enquired about the slight hesitation/bump during the shift to overdrive and was told (noticed since) that that was "normal" for the first few minutes of operation until the tranny and components have warmed up to operating temp. Also #2- remember that the airflow direction switch to the "feet only" position runs the A/C compressor to "dehumidify" the incoming air; as does the "defrost" position. Just discovered this yesterday (3 tankfuls later...) gas mileage issue?
  • sailormonsailormon Member Posts: 48
    Been following all the comments on the CRD good and bad. The good won out and I just ordered up a new 06. After going south to clean up what was our home and boat (junk) after hurricane charlie in fl. we found that getting fuel for the power stroke was a real pain as short driving is not it's game. It took me a long time to find out there was a mid sized vehicle that could tow and still get good mileage. The f-250 is going and we are looking foreward to the jeep. We will be towing the new boat from mi. to fl. each year rather than lose another one there.
  • anomiousanomious Member Posts: 170
    Cool! I love my Libby and the 2006's should be even better!

    Best of luck! LK
  • rudolf_1rudolf_1 Member Posts: 6
    Just to clarify .... Bosch does not make the EGR valve nor does Siemens. Issue with the valve is the oil cracking and accumulating on the valve seat area. US oil is much more problematic than European oils. Fix would be to coat the seat area with material which does not allow the cracked oil to adhere.

    Regarding Biodiesel: take care to keep the mixture below 5% or you may run into stability issues if the fuel see's quick temperature delta's. Best is to run a high centane pure diesel blend.

    Good luck
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Here is the link to the latest Bosch EGR valve actuator:
    http://rb-k.bosch.de/en/start/product_ds_11_agr.html

    I once found a link to the Bosch Common Rail system where all the equipment fitted on the VM engine was displayed in cutaway views. I downloaded the VM brochure, but it's no longer published. I may not be allowed to display it since I'm not the author. It was called 'R 428 DOHC' in pdf format.

    Here is the Bosch choke flap:
    http://rb-k.bosch.de/en/start/product_ds_09_reglkl.html

    Here is the link to a Siemens made EGR:
    http://www.siemensvdo.com/default.aspx?menu=PT_EGR

    Concerning the biodiesel, B5 blend is distributed in many filling stations without people knowing about it. What is hard to get for me is the ULS-B5.
  • cptkurtcptkurt Member Posts: 1
    i live in ft lauderdale and plan on towing my 23' boat around ...do you know anybody that has been towing with the crd??????
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Can the EGR valve be cleaned if it sticks or is it a part you must throw away? I had the EGR on my truck (1993 Dodge Dakota) get full of carbon. I used a good solvent and got it clean. I put a drop of synthetic oil on the piston, replaced it and it was fine. This EGR was controlled by vacuum.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Do you know what I do?
    Every morning I travel on a highway where I have to stop to go through customs. I just floor the pedal until I reach 60 mph and check for smoke. None so far. This may sound silly, but it's the proper way to clean it out. Just like one's nose.
    More seriously, the EGR housing that holds the valve + seat + stem guide are water cooled on your engine. You may have to open your cooling circuit to clean it. For shure whoever makes the engine controller doesn't need to provide the casting to put in the valve... I don't even know what mine looks like. My warranty runs until sept 16th :shades:
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    I will try your idea. I am assuming you have a fully warmed up engine before you do this? I do not have any smoke, but then again rarely take the engine past 2500 RPM. Guess it cannot hurt to take to redline once in a while. And what do the customs people think of this? We have no customs within the states, but it would be worth doing at a tollbooth. Occasionally I find a toll collector without any personality. Maybe a whiff of diesel will brighten that person's day.

    As for opening the cooling system, no thanks. The new antifreeze they put in is nasty stuff and I will let the mechanic handle that. It is a hybrid organic acid type, and orange in color.

    I intend to buy a shop manual for the engine in the near future. I would like to be able to do things like change the serpentine belt, fuel filter change, etc. myself. Most of that looks easy, but I would rather have a manual handy so I do not ruin something or re-invent the wheel.

    Thank you :)
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    Does anyone know if part number 82210003 transmission skid plate (Available November) is a new design for the CRD for the trans pan/oil filter?
  • ryoungetryounget Member Posts: 9
    I tow a key largo 206, boat, motor and trailer around 4800lbs.
    I have towed it behind an Excursion, Silverado 4x4 1500, and my CRD.
    The CRD is a close second behind the Excursion and gets 16mpg to the X's 11mpg and the Chevy's 7mpg.
  • crdfancrdfan Member Posts: 10
    I have almost 11,000 mi on my CRD. It broke down around 10,300 mi and turns out it was a EGR valve that took my dealership 10 days to get in and repair. Less than a week later I had to go back because of a noise that it was making while it was running and up to 30 seconds after I shut it off. This time I was told it is a module that needs to be replaced and to keep driving it until the part comes in. Est time of part to get here is 2 weeks. Wanted to know if anyone else has had similar problems? Other than that gas mileage has been btw 22 and 25 mpg and I love it.
  • rudolf_1rudolf_1 Member Posts: 6
    Agree that both Bosch and Siemens make an EGR valve. The valve in the Liberty is not made by either manufacturer it is made by Pierburg. Interestingly enough Pierburg made the EGR valve for another manufacturer who sold a light duty diesel in the US market recently again with the same problems regarding the EGR valve early after SOP. I would be interested if any European Liberty's have this problem. This would confirm my suspicion regarding the oil quality

    Other facts I have found:
    Bosch produces the commen rail system (rail, injectors, high pressure pump,ECU and Glow system) for the Liberty.
    Siemens produces the diesel fuel injection system for the Ford heavy duty pickup (rail, injectors, high pressure pump)

    Lastly: Overheating issue seems to stem from brakes becoming applied unintentionally and unprovoked by driver intervention via vacuum conditon during hot temp conditions. Additional parasitic drag creates loading on engine which leads to the over heat. Please provide feedback if you have felt dragging prior to the overheating.
  • bigpapabigpapa Member Posts: 30
    Has anybody considered of maybe using Synthetic 5W-40 European Motor Oil considering that our engine is based out of Europe. Amsoil sells this product.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    I never push any engine until it's warm, and you don't need to reach the red zone because you are loosing acceleration in this case. In normal use I stay around 2200 rpm. I prefer to push it in 3rd gear to prevent tire wear or I shift in 4wd for a fast takeoff.
    The shop manual on CD that I've seen at the dealership gives you all parts numbers, but it's your professional expertise that does the rest. Access to a lift in a covered area is more important than the manual in my case.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    I've not yet read about Jeep EGR problems over here, but I will try to find out.
    The engine I have has less equipment on it:
    I have no choke flap,
    I don't have the same EGR system, mine has no liquid chiller (made by Pierburg?),
    I have no electrical fan.

    European diesels also have EGR problems, I would say one out of ten. Are they burning domestic heating oil? I guess not. City driving with manual shifters at low engine speeds seems to cause the smoke. Older diesels didn't have this problem.

    My engine never consumed any oil, even when it was brand new. I would have suspected the choke flap to suck oil from the admission valve stems due to the vacuum it creates when the engine stops (???)
  • spetespete Member Posts: 73
    Question - I know that I should lock out the overdrive when towing - but is it "normal" for the engine to run at around 2700RPM at 55-60MPH? At 45 MPH I am approching 2000RPM - Just seems like there should be another gear there when at highway speeds. My trailer weighs only around 2400 lbs when loaded.
  • lightnin3lightnin3 Member Posts: 153
    Yup ..but remember your speed should not exceed 50 mph.
    I towed a 2000lbs trailer ,no problem with the overdrive on,but only on the straight aways,then when I hit the hills ,disengage the OD.

    Besides if you want to maximize your fuel economy,you'll find it will work better for you at that speed.
    I also found filling up with a premium fuel helped with performance.
    Hope this helps...
    Peace..
    Lightnin3
  • fredl1fredl1 Member Posts: 12
    You certainly do not need to lock out the overdrive when towing. I regularly tow a 1250 kilogram caravan over various distances. Normally I allow the gearbox to decide for itself except on steep mountain passes where the gearbox may start to 'hunt'. Once hunting starts I lock out the overdrive until I reach a level piece of road.

    I also tow my caravan in temperatures of between 31 and 35 degrees Celsius and I have never had problems with overheating. I must say, I was very surprised when I read about this problem in the US. We have been driving CRD's since 2002 and overheating has never been a problem
  • bullheadbullhead Member Posts: 125
    Peak horsepower (160) of the R 428 DOHC engine is rated at 2,800 rpm. In my pea-brain, this doesn't sound like a bad place to be- if towing at highway speeds. Based on a few posts here: There do seem to be tendencies for this transmission, at slower speeds and high rpms (esp. stop and go), to overheat; maybe. I haven't experienced it. But I'm in a mostly suburban/rural/boonies type of setting. A weakness in the trans. cooling, mostly, I guess.
  • bullheadbullhead Member Posts: 125
    You are correct, Sir: Regarding keeping OD in on the flats if towing. And when the trans. "hunts"- can be your best guide for when to disengage it. Where does the 50 mph figure become gospel for towing, though ?? Is it in the owner's manual ? I towed 3,500 lbs with a minimal wind drag at 75 mph on the flat, OD engaged, just fine. And I presume the 'Premium' fuel you cite is 'No. 1 Diesel' ?
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    I will be switching over to the Amsoil 5W-40 product in November. The Mobil 1 oils just do not seem to have the guts that this engine requires. Mobil 1 does have two 5W-40 oils. One is labeled Truck/SUV and is available in most car parts shops. The other 5W-40 is the real heavy duty stuff, only available at truckstops.

    I am considering the use of Amsoil's 15W-40. The pour point and flow characteristics are very close to the 5W-40. The TBN and detergency in the 15W-40 is far greater than in the 5W-40.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Caribou,

    I never push an engine until it is fully warmed up. That is a great way to blow a turbocharger or throw a rod.

    As to third gear, there is no way I can hold it there. The gear selector does not have stop for third. The pattern is 1 - 2 - D - N - R - P. There is the OD lock out button on the side of the shifter.

    In normal highway driving I stay between 1850 - 2000 RPM, while around town 2000 - 2200 RPM.

    As to a professional expertise, I will go only so far. As to having access to a lift and cover that is another story. I have ramps that will support about 2300 kg so I can work with those if I need to. For cover, I can set up a large picnic tent if need be.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    When I am in Drive with the OD/OFF, I cannot shift above the 3rd gear.
    When I have the OD/ON, which is the default condition, above 40 mph I get into 4th gear until I reach 55 mph. Then only it will shift into 5th.
    I think you have to write down what speed you're at for a fixed rpm value by selecting gears manually.
    At first I thought there were 6 gears in this automatic, and in fact there are two 2nd gears:
    - one for normal driving
    - one for the kickdown
    This is enough to confuse many people
    :sick:
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Thanks for the information. One other question/concern.

    After I have driven my CRD for a while and then shut it down, I have the odor of diesel coming from the sides and front of the hood for several minutes. I have looked at every single fuel connection and fuel line and not a single one leaks or even has any haze on it. I checked the rail and injectors and they are tight too.

    This morning I went under the CRD to look at the exhaust system and EGR valve. The exhaust pipe from the turbo was tight and the was no visible soot or evidence of leakage. I was able to get my hand up there and nothing appeared on my fingers. I checked the rest of the exhaust system and found it to be in good order. The section of flexible pipe was fine too.

    I looked at the EGR valve and found it to be clean and all connections that I could physically evaluate were tight.

    I have less than 2600 miles on my CRD which I have had since May 5th. Any suggestions or ideas welcome.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Liberty review

    article by Peter Bohr at www.pe.com

    you may need to register to view it
  • nick_jnick_j Member Posts: 2
    I've been running my Liberty 2.8 CRD on B5-B20 since I got it with no ill effects (4600 miles). The other day I put in enough B99 to give me about B80. While the CRD was warm, I had no trouble, but since then it has been lugging when starting it cold, and running a bit rough, until it's had a few minutes to warm up. However, this is Tucson and our "cold" has been 77 degrees. Most of the time it's been 95 degrees or more, much more.

    Has anyone had trouble with higher levels of biodiesel? I've seen a lot on the EGR valve problems. Is this actually an EGR problem? Has the B99 "cleaned" out the engine and possible fouled the EGR?

    As soon as I can run some of this tank out, I'll put some Dino diesel back in to reduce the BioD percentage.
  • smilie1smilie1 Member Posts: 21
    I can confirm the info about Pierburg as the EGR supplier.I saw the new one the mechanic put on my engine.No idea on the cooler however.
  • smilie1smilie1 Member Posts: 21
    Has anyone managed to install an extra transmission oil cooler someplace on the CRD?After having my torque converter replaced I am convinced that the stock unit isn't getting the job done.However,except for the under the bumper area which looks like a debris prone spot I don't see many options.I had thought about a fan assisted model,but can't find a location.My transmission overheated sometime on a 9500 mile trip with a 4300lb travel trailer and never gave a visible or audible warning.
  • anomiousanomious Member Posts: 170
    No!!! #1 diesel is NOT premium fuel...it is thinner fuel more like kerosene. It's use is only permitted as a thinner for winter operation. See page 280 of your owner's manual. I have been driving diesel cars since 1968. In the old days we had to mix up to 30% #1 in the winter time.. With the winterized fuel of today it is not necessary.
    LK
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    There is some space between the radiator and the A/C condenser. You might try fitting it in there.

    As to the place under the bumper, I will eventually put mine there and put some screening in front of it for protection. I do not tow, but better safe than sorry. :D
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    Are you still viewing? Thoughts on your new Cummins vs the CRD.
    Trade the CRD out again?
  • bardwell02bardwell02 Member Posts: 4
    Got it back from dealer #2 tonight. The whistle was dismissed as normal turbo noise. We ran over to the showroom and had them fire up a new one, just to confirm it's NOT normal. Their theory on the smell was that there was fuel residue - lots of it - all around the engine, which seemed to make sense since I could seen sooty black spots all over the thing after dealer # 1 was done. They did a good cleaning, but it's too early to tell. The whistling is only in boost situations, I get it even while cruising at 60. The smell seems only to come through the vents while idling. Tonight I even put a residential CO detector in it for 5 minutes to see if it could sniff exhaust, but I'm not sure - does diesel even generate CO (okay I was REALLY bad in chem)?

    Curiously, the tech at #2 (who was very friendly and actually spent some time with me poking around), told me that the EGR looked like it had not been replaced by #1 - maybe they just cleaned it?
  • towwmetowwme Member Posts: 52
    The owners manual says to pull in overdrive unless the tranny is 'hunting' for the correct gear. I have a 4400# hardside camper with 50 sq-ft frontal area and pull in overdrive at 60 MPH at 1800 RPM. I get 15.2 MPG while pulling. The CRD pulls the overpasses here without shifting out of 5th, or even the converter unlocking. When I use 3rd the tempature starts to rise, so I don't do it. Keep the RPM's down and let the engine pull, it likes it. I have read all of the posts to this site and several others on the CRD. I backed out of the purchase the first time (due to what I read on this site) and then went back and purchased my CRD the second time. I am happy with the Libby :)
  • willysjeepwillysjeep Member Posts: 107
    Has anyone had trouble with higher levels of biodiesel? I've seen a lot on the EGR valve problems. Is this actually an EGR problem? Has the B99 "cleaned" out the engine and possible fouled the EGR?

    I have not seen biodiesel for sale where I live. I was curious to try it. I spoke with a diesel generator engineer about biodiesel. He has a Ford diesel truck and told me that it says expressly in his truck manual not to use the stuff. He said you can have a lot of moisture problems and diesels do not like water being fed to them.

    Could water in the fuel be a likely culprit of Nick's problem?

    Biodiesel really does sound like a good idea. I understand that it can be made from waste such as restaurant grease. However, fuel made from kitchen scraps really does make me wonder about the quality.
  • bigpapabigpapa Member Posts: 30
    This took a little patience for the installation but I feel as if it was worth it. The provent would be an excellent choice for saving the motor in many different aspects. It's unreal how big of a problem venting the gases from the crankcase into the turbo. At any rate, this should give anybody who wishes to install the mann provent into the libertys. Once you reach the website, please start from picture 38 and work your way back. Doing this will have you start from the beginning of the provent install.

    PROVENT INSTALL
  • anomiousanomious Member Posts: 170
    Hi! Towwme...what's your build date? Thanks, LK
  • sailormonsailormon Member Posts: 48
    First off, I noted another sailormon, imagine a twin out there. I had a question regarding break in. The jest is, I will not get my libby for a few months and the wife suggests we haul our boat down to Indiana which is several hours away and transfer it from our trade in, a 250 power stroke. As I see it, we would then be doing a break in by pulling a 4500# load the rest of the way to Fl. Would this break it in or just break it. Also I noticed someone asked about ams oil. I did a swith on the power stroke this last year. I was getting close to 17 mpg with the ford power stroke with kayak on top. I put in the ams oil for diesel and got 21 mpg. both down and back...in another part of edmonds forum, someone claimed that lubricants won't improve mileage so I must be wrong of course as he seemed very adament about the issue. However, I will go this way with our new lib.
  • lightnin3lightnin3 Member Posts: 153
    I am sure it is somewhere in the manual about the OD disengaged while towing in the manual.
    How I got my info was a suggestion from the dealer,to not exceed 50mph while towing.

    I am from Canada ,here we have either regular Diesel fuel or .
    It seems that most companies offer a cleaner more refined version of it.

    From what I understand this is what the Europeans use ,and what the Libby was designed to use.I have heard stories about dirty fuel.Although I believe Shell's fuel is one of the cleaner versions.Where do you guys get your fuel??.
    Peace
    Lightnin3
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    I've had this diesel smell as well at 52,000 Km.
    On the common rail element, above the engine, my connection to the second cylinder was not as tight as the others. You have to be careful with these high pressure tube fittings because you can squash them if you tighten them too hard. I would recommend using a 17mm split ring spanner to do that. If you use a standard flat spanner you can destroy the compression nut because you have to access at an angle close to 60 degrees.
  • purduealum91purduealum91 Member Posts: 285
    and rebates?
  • drudgerydrudgery Member Posts: 13
    No Employee discount when I bought ours in July. Rebate yes but not like the $ off for most everything else.
  • cu1981cu1981 Member Posts: 13
    Interesting article.... Not sure you can package the technology of a BMW or Mercedes into a 27K auto package. I would expect both to be more advanced... Not even in the same league. There is a price for that. I have owned a BMW Turbo diesel and they are obviously not the same car. This guy is a trip.... He needs to step into the real world... Compare vehicles that are in the same ballpark would restore some credibility to his column in the future. Also noted are his mileage figures, which differ from my sticker, and the package price was different as well. Lastly the variance between gas and diesel was more like 5 miles per gallon as well as a reduced maintenance cost. I to looked at hybreds - the Toyota is a mere 42K. That is crazy and I own two Toyotas. I traded a Land Cruiser for this car. Is it the same car, no! Do I like it for the money - yes. Would I have bought it if Toyota offered the diesel Land Cruiser in the US, no probably not after owning 2 Land Cruisers but the price is obviously not comparable. Like I said this guy is a trip!!!!
  • bullheadbullhead Member Posts: 125
    Yes...

    The manual does cite towing as a situation where OD can be locked out, but as needed.

    In my little town, our Texaco (now Chevron, Inc.) got replaced by a Shell station years ago. Chevron & Texaco are often cited by gas engine mechanics as having the most uniform, clean-burning gasolines. So I lamented that change. However, as a result, at 5k+ miles our CRD has had little in it but Shell Brand diesel fuel. Some (dare I say it- manageable) overheating is the only problem we've had. But, soon following when I filled, JUST ONCE, at the el Cheapo- but major brand- station did we die at the side of the road. Fortunately, a few pumps on the fuel/water separator primer and we were off again at 100%.

    This brings me to the subject of home brew biodiesel. Boy, was I initially very excited about getting into that! Now, I wouldn't let it get within 4m of the filler cap, unless I was stranded out of fuel. Using it in your Liberty is in bad judgment, in my opinion.

    This is not directed at you, lightnin3, but for everyone:
    In fairness to all posting in this forum who are trying to resolve systemic, actual weaknesses with their Liberty CRD, posters using; or that have used; home brew, need to make that clear to all. Otherwise, certain issues- and their hopeful resolutions- will become obfuscated for the rest. I know there are plenty of home brew biodiesel forums to participate in, where that practice is implied. I didn't check to see if the assertion is already a ground rule of this forum, so I apologize if it is.
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