Michaell, with the above lease for gorexgo, if the term was 24 months vs 30 how would the number play out? I'm seeking loaded rex and want to keep my payment as close to 350.What would the purchase price need to be using the 7500 lease cash, 1000 build out cash, and the 1000 USAA.
Many thanks
If I keep the pricing the same, and change the residual to 63% (24/10), the pre-tax payment is $297/mo.
Given the standard BMW ad.. would the payment stay about the same? totally agree - MDS's all the way.
No - $3000 down equates to about $84/mo in payment. MSDs won't reduce your payment that much, but the money is returned to you.
Can you explain MSD versus down payment? Thanks
Multiple Security Deposits reduce the money factor, and as a result, the payment. Plus, you get the MSDs back at lease end.
A down payment also reduces the payment, but only because you've paid it upfront.. There is minimal savings in overall cost when making a down-payment, while making MSDs can be a substantial savings.
I learned a lot on this forum about leasing and specifically about BMW leasing, which helped me out when negotiating with the dealer. Thanks a bunch for all the information and advice from very knowledgeable moderator(s).
Wanted to check below deal in CA:
BMW i3 REX MSRP: 49,050 Selling price: 43,409 Gross cap cost after 1,000 options credit: 42,409 Rebates: 7,500 Acquisition fee: 925 Drive-off: 2,500 (mostly went to fees/taxes/title + first month + remaining just $42 applied for cap reduction)
I learned a lot on this forum about leasing and specifically about BMW leasing, which helped me out when negotiating with the dealer. Thanks a bunch for all the information and advice from very knowledgeable moderator(s).
Wanted to check below deal in CA:
BMW i3 REX MSRP: 49,050 Selling price: 43,409 Gross cap cost after 1,000 options credit: 42,409 Rebates: 7,500 Acquisition fee: 925 Drive-off: 2,500 (mostly went to fees/taxes/title + first month + remaining just $42 applied for cap reduction)
According to bmwusa.com, the financing offer is 0.9% APR.
My questions are: 1 - why Lease APR much higher than Financing APR? 2 - can 0.9% APR be used for Lease instead?
Per bmwusa.com 0.90% Annual Percentage Rate Offer. $1,000 Option Credit available. * As low as 0.90% APR financing for contracts up to 72 months on any new 2015 BMW i3 Range Extender model. Rates available from participating dealers to eligible, qualified customers with excellent credit history who meet BMW Financial Services credit requirements. For example, with $0.00 down payment, a retail installment contract on a 2015 BMW i3 Range Extender with MSRP of $46,250.00 may be repaid in 24 monthly installments of $1,945.20 or may be repaid in 72 of $660.10.
According to bmwusa.com, the financing offer is 0.9% APR.
My questions are: 1 - why Lease APR much higher than Financing APR? 2 - can 0.9% APR be used for Lease instead?
Per bmwusa.com 0.90% Annual Percentage Rate Offer. $1,000 Option Credit available. * As low as 0.90% APR financing for contracts up to 72 months on any new 2015 BMW i3 Range Extender model. Rates available from participating dealers to eligible, qualified customers with excellent credit history who meet BMW Financial Services credit requirements. For example, with $0.00 down payment, a retail installment contract on a 2015 BMW i3 Range Extender with MSRP of $46,250.00 may be repaid in 24 monthly installments of $1,945.20 or may be repaid in 72 of $660.10.
1. Because there is a $7500 lease incentive available 2. No
I'm in Houston, TX. I am planning to lease the BMW i3 REX, and comparing it with my current Nissan Leaf and Ford Focus Electric leases; trying to figure out whether or not the dealership quoted me a good deal; AND trying to figure out WHY BMW Lease Formula is DIFFERENT from NISSAN & FORD Lease Formulas.
* MSRP: $55,895 * Residual Rate: 63% * Lease Term: 24 months, 10K miles/year, cash down $2400 (including 1st payment), $399.38/month. * Net Cap Cost: $41,647.75 (dealer willing to disclose) * Money Factor: 0.001708 (was not disclosed by dealer, so I had to use the BMW Lease Formula to work backward and figure it out).
I am confused about how the BMW dealership and most people in this forum use the BMW Lease Formula to calculate the Bottom-line Monthly Payment vs. the Lease Formula that Nissan & Ford used on my leases.
This is my understanding about the basic formula (I call it BMW Lease Formula) that is discussed in this forum and to be applied to BMW vehicle:
Using the numbers in my Nissan Leaf & Ford Focus Electric lease contracts, plugging them into this NISSAN & FORD formula above, and THIS IS WHAT I ACTUALLY PAYING RIGHT NOW :
Please help to explain why the formula used by BMW is different from NISSAN & FORD, which results in higher Monthly Payment (I thought all dealerships use the same industry-standard lease formula, am I wrong?).
Also, attached are my NISSAN & FORD lease contracts for reference.
I'm in Houston, TX. I am planning to lease the BMW i3 REX, and comparing it with my current Nissan Leaf and Ford Focus Electric leases; trying to figure out whether or not the dealership quoted me a good deal; AND trying to figure out WHY BMW Lease Formula is DIFFERENT from NISSAN & FORD Lease Formulas.
* MSRP: $55,895 * Residual Rate: 63% * Lease Term: 24 months, 10K miles/year, cash down $2400 (including 1st payment), $399.38/month. * Net Cap Cost: $41,647.75 (dealer willing to disclose) * Money Factor: 0.001708 (was not disclosed by dealer, so I had to use the BMW Lease Formula to work backward and figure it out).
I am confused about how the BMW dealership and most people in this forum use the BMW Lease Formula to calculate the Bottom-line Monthly Payment vs. the Lease Formula that Nissan & Ford used on my leases.
This is my understanding about the basic formula (I call it BMW Lease Formula) that is discussed in this forum and to be applied to BMW vehicle:
Using the numbers in my Nissan Leaf & Ford Focus Electric lease contracts, plugging them into this NISSAN & FORD formula above, and THIS IS WHAT I ACTUALLY PAYING RIGHT NOW :
Please help to explain why the formula used by BMW is different from NISSAN & FORD, which results in higher Monthly Payment (I thought all dealerships use the same industry-standard lease formula, am I wrong?).
Also, attached are my NISSAN & FORD lease contracts for reference.
Lease formulas are the same, regardless of manufacturer.
I can't debug any on-line lease calculators; too often they make assumptions we know nothing about.
Michael, I used the exact formula from edmunds for my Nissan Leaf & Ford Focus. And the bottom-line monthly payment would have been way to high as $338 & $516; respectively; instead of what I actually am paying right now $288 & $333. It's a big gap, and I still don't understand why. Any idea or theory?
I notice the only difference is the last portion of the formula that is used to calculate the Monthly Finance Fee.
* BMW or Edmunds: Bottom-line Monthly Finance Fee = [(Net + Residual) x MF] * NISSAN & FORD: Bottom-line Monthly Finance Fee = [(Net + Residual) x MF] / Lease Term = Monthly Finance Fee / Lease Term
I just double checked my CHEVY VOLT 2014 lease, and it's the same calculation as NISSAN & FORD.
I just hate the feeling that once I have signed the contract (based on edmunds formula, and thought that I got a good deal), but then find out that I could have saved $100/month more, then I will carry that annoying feeling of overpay for 2-year period
Michael or anyone, do you have an actual lease contract that you can post and share so I can compare?
I just need to see the portion in your lease contract indicating "YOUR MONTHLY PAYMENT IS DETERMINED AS SHOWN BELOW", similar to the two attachments of my NISSAN & FORD leases.
Michael, I used the exact formula from edmunds for my Nissan Leaf & Ford Focus. And the bottom-line monthly payment would have been way to high as $338 & $516; respectively; instead of what I actually am paying right now $288 & $333. It's a big gap, and I still don't understand why. Any idea or theory?
I notice the only difference is the last portion of the formula that is used to calculate the Monthly Finance Fee.
* BMW or Edmunds: Bottom-line Monthly Finance Fee = [(Net + Residual) x MF] * NISSAN & FORD: Bottom-line Monthly Finance Fee = [(Net + Residual) x MF] / Lease Term = Monthly Finance Fee / Lease Term
I just double checked my CHEVY VOLT 2014 lease, and it's the same calculation as NISSAN & FORD.
I just hate the feeling that once I have signed the contract (based on edmunds formula, and thought that I got a good deal), but then find out that I could have saved $100/month more, then I will carry that annoying feeling of overpay for 2-year period
Let's put aside the past for a moment and focus on the i3 lease, shall we?
Using the MSRP of $55,895, the cap cost of $41,648, 24/10 residual of 63% and the base MF of .00134 (per BMWFS), I get a pre-tax payment of $371.08 using my calculator.
I don't make any changes to my spreadsheet if I'm calculating a Ford lease or a Nissan lease or a BMW lease - I plug in those 5 variables (MSRP, net cap cost, residual %, MF and lease term) and everything else is calculated.
Nothing more complicated than 5th grade math. In the time I've been moderating these forums, not once has anyone suggested that the lease calculation is different for a particular manufacturer.
that's exactly the number I got ($371.08) based on the Net Cap Cost $41,648 (including all the fees, tax, & incentive). So, comparing to the quote of $399.38, and I'm working the formula backward, basically, the dealership marked up the MF to 0.001708. Thanks for your help.
Do you have an existing lease contract that you can share (just the portion "YOUR MONTHLY PAYMENT IS DETERMINED AS SHOWN BELOW") of any car, but if you have one for BMW, that would be even better?
It's posted above, but based on feedback from forum, I think there is room for improvement, which I'm working on. Or change dealers, as they say, it only takes one dealer to match your offer (within realistic limits)
Hi 135iusn, I couln't find it. Btw, I'm not looking for a quote. I am looking for an OFFICIAL lease contract (as an example, I posted two OFFICIAL lease contracts above - see snapshot). Is it possible that you can provide one?
Have you ever leased a vehicle before? If not, then I want to let you know that you will have to sign 2 main documents: Purchase Order and Lease Contract.
Oh well, if anyone in this forum has ever lease a car before, I appreciate it if you could post a snapshot of the lease contract, specifically the section called ""YOUR MONTHLY PAYMENT IS DETERMINED AS SHOWN BELOW""
135iusn, I think you can get a better deal. I believe you can get the Net Cap Cost knocked down an additional $1K if you are willing to wait until December. Keep putting pressure on them, especially it's approaching the end of the year. So, they need space for new cars. In addition, if they can't sell the car, and if it get to 2016, my understanding is that a brand new car can easily loose $2K in value. In TX, 3 dealerships are eager to sell at the price you were offered (Net Cap Cost = $40K, including tax, fees, and everything). They keep calling me and pushing me to sign the deal.
According to my calculation, with Net Cap Cost = $40K, $1.6K down ($1.6K down = 4728 - 2800 MSD - 339 1st payment), your monthly payment should be: * If MF = 0.00134, and Net Cap Cost = $40K, it should be $340 * If MF = 0.00085, and Net Cap Cost = $40K, it should be $300
This is the deal I got from 3 dealerships in TX.
If you can wait until December, then assuming dealer is willing to knock off $500 to $1000 from Net Cap Cost, then: * If MF = 0.00085, and Net Cap Cost = $39.5K, monthly payment should be $280 * If MF = 0.00085, and Net Cap Cost = $39K, monthly payment should be $260
According to my calculation, with Net Cap Cost = $40K, $1.6K down ($1.6K down = 4728 - 2800 MSD - 339 1st payment), your monthly payment should be: * If MF = 0.00134, and Net Cap Cost = $40K, it should be $340 * If MF = 0.00085, and Net Cap Cost = $40K, it should be $300
This is the deal I got from 3 dealerships in TX.
If you can wait until December, then assuming dealer is willing to knock off $500 to $1000 from Net Cap Cost, then: * If MF = 0.00085, and Net Cap Cost = $39.5K, monthly payment should be $280 * If MF = 0.00085, and Net Cap Cost = $39K, monthly payment should be $260
Btw, this is my goal for the price.
One thing to keep in mind is that the numbers may be completely different in December - and, BMW may stop supporting leases of the 2015 i3 altogether. Can't use todays numbers to figure a deal 60 days from now.
you might want to wait pass Nov 2nd. If some incentives go away, there will be other incentives coming in, and it will only get better... as I believe.
Thanks for advice. But I'm getting tired of dealing with it all.
On a whim, contacted local dealer and they quoted 586 payment. They weren't playing ball earlier in the month. I said I had X deal from the competition they quickly pulled a 321 payment out of the paperwork. Haha.
Dealer said they using the base MF but adding the .0005 as I'm waiving the acq fee
24/10 7 MSDs - but I thought they were rounded to the 1/2. So 319 would be 350*7. They calculate at 400
The aftermarket line is for window tint install. They install on all stock cars. I've not price tint for the i3, but this seems high. It does have odd windows. Still 200 seems fair. But that's a smaller issue.
Deal solid or not? What room do I have ?
Any accessories a good ask for as in free (:
Goal is is as little down as possible. And the golden 300 ish payment.
Additionally i'll have the $500 USAA lease cash to add. That should take $20 off the payment.
Comments
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A down payment also reduces the payment, but only because you've paid it upfront.. There is minimal savings in overall cost when making a down-payment, while making MSDs can be a substantial savings.
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Residual value or percentage, how is that determined?
Money factor, how do they determine which one to use?
Money factor is set by the bank (BMWFS), but the dealer can mark it up for extra profit.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
MSRP '15 i3 Rex $ 55895
Discount -6600
BMW Lease Cash -7500
Option Credit -1000
Purchase Price 40795
Term 24 mo
Miles 10k yr
7 MSDs 300*7 2100
Residual 63% 35213
Money Factor 0.00085
Payment 297
Out of Pocket
MSD 2100
SC tax 300
Doc fee 299
1st Pmt 297
Total drive off 2996
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Still seems to me the MF is high, given those payments.
So, let's run the numbers with both the base MF (.00134) and after MSD (.00085)
All payments are pre-tax:
24/10 - $500 / $462
30/10 - $491 / $454
36/10 - $499 / $463
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Wanted to check below deal in CA:
BMW i3 REX MSRP: 49,050
Selling price: 43,409
Gross cap cost after 1,000 options credit: 42,409
Rebates: 7,500
Acquisition fee: 925
Drive-off: 2,500 (mostly went to fees/taxes/title + first month + remaining just $42 applied for cap reduction)
30 months, 12,000 miles/year
Residual 57% MF 0.00134
Is this good deal? $315.46/month (342.27 with tax).
Does this work better if all the fees/etc. are rolled into cap cost then apply 2,500 cash towards MSDs?
Thanks!
Adding $2450 back into the CAP cost and using that $2450 for MSDs will cause the payment to go up about $53/mo.pre-tax..
But, $53 X 30 = $1590, and you get the $2450 back at lease end. So, a net savings of $850.
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According to bmwusa.com, the financing offer is 0.9% APR.
My questions are:
1 - why Lease APR much higher than Financing APR?
2 - can 0.9% APR be used for Lease instead?
Per bmwusa.com
0.90% Annual Percentage Rate Offer. $1,000 Option Credit available.
* As low as 0.90% APR financing for contracts up to 72 months on any new 2015 BMW i3 Range Extender model. Rates available from participating dealers to eligible, qualified customers with excellent credit history who meet BMW Financial Services credit requirements. For example, with $0.00 down payment, a retail installment contract on a 2015 BMW i3 Range Extender with MSRP of $46,250.00 may be repaid in 24 monthly installments of $1,945.20 or may be repaid in 72 of $660.10.
2. No
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
NISSAN LEAF 2012:
FORD FOCUS ELECTRIC 2013:
I'm in Houston, TX. I am planning to lease the BMW i3 REX, and comparing it with my current Nissan Leaf and Ford Focus Electric leases; trying to figure out whether or not the dealership quoted me a good deal; AND trying to figure out WHY BMW Lease Formula is DIFFERENT from NISSAN & FORD Lease Formulas.
* MSRP: $55,895
* Residual Rate: 63%
* Lease Term: 24 months, 10K miles/year, cash down $2400 (including 1st payment), $399.38/month.
* Net Cap Cost: $41,647.75 (dealer willing to disclose)
* Money Factor: 0.001708 (was not disclosed by dealer, so I had to use the BMW Lease Formula to work backward and figure it out).
I am confused about how the BMW dealership and most people in this forum use the BMW Lease Formula to calculate the Bottom-line Monthly Payment vs. the Lease Formula that Nissan & Ford used on my leases.
This is my understanding about the basic formula (I call it BMW Lease Formula) that is discussed in this forum and to be applied to BMW vehicle:
* Monthly Finance Fee = (Net Cap Cost + Residual Value) x Money Factor
* Monthly Depreciation Fee (tax included) = Depreciation Fee (tax included) / Lease Term
* Monthly Payment = Monthly Finance Fee + Monthly Depreciation Fee
Using the numbers in my Nissan Leaf & Ford Focus Electric lease contracts, plugging them into the BMW Lease Formula above, and I get:
* NISSAN LEAF 2012 (MSRP = $37,305):
* Monthly Finance Fee = ($28,769.37 + $18,439.20) x 0.00108 = $51.12
* Monthly Depreciation Fee (tax included) = $10,330.17 / 36 = $286.95
* Monthly Payment = $51.12 + $286.95 = $338.07
* FORD FOCUS ELECTRIC 2013 (MSRP = $41,385):
* Monthly Finance Fee = ($31,260.50 + $19,450.95) x 0.00372 = $188.53
* Monthly Depreciation Fee (tax included) = $11,809.55 / 36 = $328.04
* Monthly Payment = $188.53 + $328.04 = $516.57
However, NISSAN & FORD used a DIFFERENT Lease Formula on my actual lease contracts to calculate the Bottom-line Monthly Payment:
* Monthly Payment = [Depreciation Fee (tax included) + Monthly Finance Fee] / Lease Term
Using the numbers in my Nissan Leaf & Ford Focus Electric lease contracts, plugging them into this NISSAN & FORD formula above, and THIS IS WHAT I ACTUALLY PAYING RIGHT NOW :
* NISSAN LEAF:
* Monthly Payment = [$10,330.17 + $51.12] / 36 = $288.37
* FORD FOCUS ELECTRIC:
* Monthly Payment = [$11,809.55 + $188.53] / 36 = $333.28
If I am to use NISSAN & FORD Lease Formula, theoretically, my BMW Monthly would be much lower:
* Monthly Payment = [$6,433.90+$131.31] / 24 = $273.55 (vs. $399.38)
Please help to explain why the formula used by BMW is different from NISSAN & FORD, which results in higher Monthly Payment (I thought all dealerships use the same industry-standard lease formula, am I wrong?).
Also, attached are my NISSAN & FORD lease contracts for reference.
I can't debug any on-line lease calculators; too often they make assumptions we know nothing about.
Rather, I built my own spreadsheet. You can, too:
http://www.edmunds.com/car-leasing/calculate-your-own-lease-payment.html
I use this for all my lease calculations, for all manufacturers.
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I notice the only difference is the last portion of the formula that is used to calculate the Monthly Finance Fee.
* BMW or Edmunds: Bottom-line Monthly Finance Fee = [(Net + Residual) x MF]
* NISSAN & FORD: Bottom-line Monthly Finance Fee = [(Net + Residual) x MF] / Lease Term = Monthly Finance Fee / Lease Term
I just double checked my CHEVY VOLT 2014 lease, and it's the same calculation as NISSAN & FORD.
I just hate the feeling that once I have signed the contract (based on edmunds formula, and thought that I got a good deal), but then find out that I could have saved $100/month more, then I will carry that annoying feeling of overpay for 2-year period
I just need to see the portion in your lease contract indicating "YOUR MONTHLY PAYMENT IS DETERMINED AS SHOWN BELOW", similar to the two attachments of my NISSAN & FORD leases.
Using the MSRP of $55,895, the cap cost of $41,648, 24/10 residual of 63% and the base MF of .00134 (per BMWFS), I get a pre-tax payment of $371.08 using my calculator.
I don't make any changes to my spreadsheet if I'm calculating a Ford lease or a Nissan lease or a BMW lease - I plug in those 5 variables (MSRP, net cap cost, residual %, MF and lease term) and everything else is calculated.
Nothing more complicated than 5th grade math. In the time I've been moderating these forums, not once has anyone suggested that the lease calculation is different for a particular manufacturer.
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Do you have an existing lease contract that you can share (just the portion "YOUR MONTHLY PAYMENT IS DETERMINED AS SHOWN BELOW") of any car, but if you have one for BMW, that would be even better?
Oh well, if anyone in this forum has ever lease a car before, I appreciate it if you could post a snapshot of the lease contract, specifically the section called ""YOUR MONTHLY PAYMENT IS DETERMINED AS SHOWN BELOW""
New quote -
We will settle on 40000 even I believe.
But, give the numbers below is everything look good? Am I missing anything or are they padding anything?
Thanks in advance.
MSRP 54345
Discount -5353
BMW Lease Cash -7500
Option Credit -1000
Purchase Price 40492
Term 24 mo
Miles 10k yr
7 MSDs
Residual 63% 34237
Money Factor should be .00085 per email with dealer
Drive off
Acq 925
1st payment 339
SC tax 300
Closing fee 325
Non tax fee 39
MSDs 2800
4728
* If MF = 0.00134, and Net Cap Cost = $40K, it should be $340
* If MF = 0.00085, and Net Cap Cost = $40K, it should be $300
This is the deal I got from 3 dealerships in TX.
If you can wait until December, then assuming dealer is willing to knock off $500 to $1000 from Net Cap Cost, then:
* If MF = 0.00085, and Net Cap Cost = $39.5K, monthly payment should be $280
* If MF = 0.00085, and Net Cap Cost = $39K, monthly payment should be $260
Btw, this is my goal for the price.
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The MSD amount is rounded up to the nearest $50, so it would be 7 @ $350, or $2450.
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So I should be under 300?
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thanks
1000 / 36 = $27.78
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On a whim, contacted local dealer and they quoted 586 payment. They weren't playing ball earlier in the month. I said I had X deal from the competition they quickly pulled a 321 payment out of the paperwork. Haha.
Dealer said they using the base MF but adding the .0005 as I'm waiving the acq fee
24/10
7 MSDs - but I thought they were rounded to the 1/2. So 319 would be 350*7. They calculate at 400
The aftermarket line is for window tint install. They install on all stock cars. I've not price tint for the i3, but this seems high. It does have odd windows. Still 200 seems fair. But that's a smaller issue.
Deal solid or not? What room do I have ?
Any accessories a good ask for as in free (:
Goal is is as little down as possible. And the golden 300 ish payment.
Additionally i'll have the $500 USAA lease cash to add. That should take $20 off the payment.
Thanks in advance.