Toyota Sienna 2004+

bakelly11

broncoguy

wwest: I grew up in NE MT, went to college in Western MN, and now live in the Twin Cities. I have put over 400,000 miles on three different vehicles in the last 13 years with the majority of those miles coming while crossing the great State of North Dakota. I've driven through pillow drifts on roads that put any car into a spin, dealt with black ice on an interstate with 40 mph North winds while passing triple trailer semi trucks that suck you in only to be thrown away when the wind hits you again, and driven in snowstorms that were so blindingly white no lines on the highway were visible at any distance (I did stop for awhile that time), not to mention the times I passed towns and noticed their little gates on the interstate on-ramps were locked signifying the highway was closed.

Most of those miles came in RWD/4x4 trucks, but some came in a little FWD car with no TRAC/VSC/ABS. The most dangerous trips were in the RWD/4x4 vehicles prior to throwing them into 4x4.

When driving in rear-biased 4x4, the only advantage I have ever seen is starting from a stop. The FWD vehicles I have driven, including my own POS, handled icy roads better than the RWD vehicles and just as well as those same vehicles in 4x4 mode.

I don't know what your little trip in '64 taught you, but it should have clued you in a little in my last post when I mentioned living in MN with a hometown in MT.

At some point, Willard, you will need to recognize that just because you are paranoid it doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you. Your posts remind me of River Phoenix in the beginning of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade when he emerges from the cave with the Cross of Coronado and finds all his friends have left. His line, "Everyone is lost, but me." There are reasons people don't agree with you and that you are the lone voice in the wilderness in these FWD/AWD/4x4 issues.

wwest

BUT ME!

Apparently...

Wasn't just one trip, lived in Lewistown for awhile in the sixties, sister lived in Cut Bank for all of her adult life. Wife hails from Lewistown, still make the trip about twice a year but try to avoid wintertime ones.

Also remember a trip from Cut Bank to Browning with a strong crosswind, solid snow such that the power line poles were our only reference point to remain on the roadbed, or at least close.

I guess the bottom line is I will likely never understand, EVERYONE agrees that the handling dynamics are different, yet no one will agree that in some circumstances the FWD will become quickly hazardous.

No one doubts the hazardous aspects of the mid-life rear engine RWD 911, so why the defensive position on FWD when it exhibits almost the very same ("reverse") charactoristics?

Speaking of which I often ran for many miles in MT with RWD and rear chains only, have you ever tried it with FWD and front chains only?

stever

In some circumstances any drive car will become quickly hazardous. Driving with only adjoining telephone poles as a guide to the roadbed sounds like one of those circumstances to me.

Steve, Host

bargamon

Sienna awd is same as Lexus RX330, which is 50-50 power distribution.

I desire it and will try to seek allocation of one. It is better than fwd. That does not mean FWD is not good. I like the way it drives better than 2wd. My wife like to know its there.

There is no argument, as there is no right or wrong.

aelo26

itch1, How did you go about getting such a great deal and getting an 8 passenger LE at 3% over invoice? I live in Maryland and no dealer will drop below MSRP!

itch1

I emailed the internet sales manager of 20+ New England Toyata dealers stating exactly what I wanted and what I was willing to pay. I was shooting for 2% over but 3% was the best that I could get. I found three dealers that were willing to go this low.

aelo26

itch1, did they have it in stock or did they have to order it? Also what option packages did you get? Also how long ago was this? Thanks

kgnw1

The deals are out there:

kgnw1 "Toyota Sienna - What did you pay?" Mar 22, 2003 2:55pm

I contacted a fleet company and got a quote from them. They had a pretty good deal with 2% over invoice and that was my fall back if I wasn't able to get a better deal from the dealers.

I sent an email to the 22 dealers in WA:

1 - Looking for a specific model with the Toyota part numbers and this is the price I get it for.
2 - You have 1 week to respond to this email or I will go with the the fleet deal.
3 - I will post my experience about your dealership on several websites. This is free advertising for you and you'll benefit by giving me a good deal.
4 - I'm pre-approved and $xxx amount that I can put down today if you're the best deal.

I got varying responses, but 3 of them said they would match the fleet offer. The dealer I finally went with got 7 additional easy sales by giving me the best deal I could get. Every time I talk to them, they keep on telling me that they'll put me on commission. (Steve - I'm not getting paid)

Anyway, those are a couple things I did. But it won't work for everyone. Hope that helps

itch1

I signed the P&S on 4/29 ($500 dep). I got a '04 8 Passenger LE (Phantom Gray) with package #7, Z1 (cargo nets, floor mats, first aid kit, door sill protector), hood protector, and wireless headphones for $26,350 (includes everything but tax and title). MSRP was $28,278. The vehicle is not in stock. They are getting it for me through allocation. I was told it would take 4-6 weeks, but I'm guessing it will be longer.

wwest

Can you have 50/50 F/R torque distribution with a higher final drive ratio in the front than in the rear? Lexus has confirmed that like the RX300, the RX330 has differing F/R final drive ratios. The RX300, and the HL, have 2.92 rear and 3.xx front.

Sorta like having the front drive in first gear and the rear drive in second gear with an over-running clutch (center open diff'l) to prevent F/R "binding".

itch1

I know - that email was probably a little childish on my part. But you had to listen to this guy talk to me like I was some kind of an idiot. He was so arrogant and condescending that I couldn't resist ;-).

That was at my local dealer so I'll be sure to say hi everytime I drop in for service.

jh316

I had to struggle with the same thing for a while. And I ended up getting XLE/AWD/GK as others said I can get an aftermarket or portable dvd. Besides, I was told that a dealer might be able to install the same factory dvd system starting within a year or so. If that stands true, I can live with a portable until then.

gordy6

Could you please provide the names of the 3 dealerships in New England that were willing to go 3% above invoice for your van?

itch1

I purchased the van from Herb Chambers in Auburn. The other two dealers were Balise in Springfield and Expressway in Dorchester.

wwest

The laws of physics will ALWAYS trump, or prevail over, any argument for FWD or front torque biased AWD, or even an AWD with 50/50 torque split.

Most vehicles in question have four points of contact with the roadbed, asking only two of those to do the majority of the "work" can NEVER be a better solution than distributing the "forces" over all four contact patches.

I sincerely suspect that one day soon we will see AWD vehicles in the market that dynamically "unload" driving or decel engine torque from the front tires as the VSC system's yaw sensor dictates.

If the new 4runner isn't doing that already. The brochure certainly reads as if that might be the case.

bakelly11

1. What is the purpose of the overhead audio system in the back of the van. I don't understand how this thing works? I was just playing around with the remote and the only thing I seem to be able to do is change radio channels. I don't get this thing. Help.

2. If you got the cargo net and 1st aid kit add on, where did they keep it? I have a feeling the dealer forgot to give them to me, because I can't find them.

3. Can't figure out the "trick" on how to remove the passenger middle seat. Looked at the book but we still can't get it out (want to move it over).

There are so many buttons on this thing. I've got a lot of learning to do.

Love the car though. Can't wait to go to work tomorrow so I can drive it again.

Bev

bakelly11

Just to let you guys know, only the seat behind the passenger seat can slide inward (slides to the left, to sit next to the other 2nd row seat).

The seat behind the driver cannot slide to the right.

I got my van last night (LE with #7) and really am actually reading this book to figure out all of the neat stuff!

Still haven't figured out the details of the rear audio system, so I'd love to hear from someone that can tell me how to use this thing. The book hasn't really helped (although I'm going to try again today).

Take Care,
Bev

backy

OK, now I'm really confused. I thought for sure I read in reviews of the Sienna that the Sienna's middle-row captains chairs can be placed together like a bench, but it's a unlatch, pickup, and relatch operation vs. a sliding operation. But I've seen multiple posts here that indicate that the seats slide together, ala the MPV. So which is it??

blandfordm

As you said, the 7-passenger, 2004 Sienna's 2nd row, right (behind front row passenger seat) captains chair can be placed next to the left, 2nd row seat to create a bench. To do this, you do have to tumble the right seat over, pick it up, move it over to the left and reattach it. It does not slide.

I think it is overly complicated the first time and somewhat cumbersome once you've figured it out.

However, it is not an issue for me. We have two babies and for the foreseeable future, only want the two seats together as a bench. The dealer showed us how to do it, set it up for us, and even helped install our car seats.

Having the 2nd row seats as a bench gives us more room to get back to the 3rd row seats. If and when we ever want to have space between the two seats, like when the kids get older and we don't have two car seats, then we'll probably have to reread the owner's manual.

If you believe you are going to change the seats back and forth from captains chairs to a bench, again and again, it may be inconvenient. But, if you do it that often, you'll be a pro and it won't be that tough. If, like us, you don't do it that often, I don't think it's anything to worry about. Either way, it doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

When people say you can 'slide the seats together', I believe that is just the most concise and easiest way to describe what the seats can do. But it is unlike the Odyssey's, where the seats actually slide.

tmurphx5

I got an LE a week ago. it came with the First Aid Kit and Cargo net. The First Aid Kit was in the drivers side door storage area, the net was in the left storage area in the trunk.

My 12 year old figured out how to move the seat over (it doesn't slide) fairly easily. Tilt it forward, pull a cord, tilt it back, lift over to new position and it latches in.

As for the rear Audio, I know he got it working so I could listen to the radio while he was listening to the CD via earphones (they did not come with the package). I believe you can also reverse it so that the driver can listen to the CD while the back seat folks listen to the radio on the earphones.

bakelly11

I'm glad to hear the kids can listen to the CD in the back while I listen to the radio. The dealer told me that can't be done (the dealer seems to be learning right along with me).

As far as the middle seats go, no I don't think the way they move to the middle will be a problem. I just need to figure it out. I don't plan on moving them back and forth that often either. (The dealer moved the right seat inward and after trying it there, I've decided I don't like it there. I want to move it back near the door).

Thanks for your help everyone!
Bev

blandfordm

If the dealer said the kids can't listen to the CD in the back while you listen to the radio, the dealer REALLY needs to read the owner's manual. There are all kinds of combinations that work. You should skim through it too. If you are not interested in reading something, you can just skip it. But I think you'll learn a lot and even find some things out you would not have thought about asking.

dawnk1

Having just ordered an 8 seat LE - and not being able to remember what I saw on the CE that I drove, maybe someone who has one can answer this question.

How is the BACK of the middle seat on Row 2 designed?

Since I wanted a 7 seat and am getting an 8 - I wonder if the middle seat might fold forward and serve as an armrest or place to set stuff (like a laptop)for the occupants of Row 2.
Can't find any photos on the 'net that capture this. . . . anyone want to take a digital photo for me?

bakelly11

Yes, I have been reading (It's about a 500 page book. So far, I'm up to about page 300). I've never had to look at an entire book like this before for a car, BUT...this car has so many neat things. If you don't look at the book, you won't make use of everything. You are right.

(I do find a major fault in this book. It documents all of the features, but doesn't give you a clue as to what is an optional feature and what isn't. The only way to tell is to see if that option works in the car or not. Poor writing. I guess I'm more critical, since I am a technical writer.)

I'm going to go out in a little while and give the rear audio another try.

I LOVE this car. My daughter calls the auto sliding door the "Magic Door". I can't keep the kids out of the car. They want to be in it all the time, even when we aren't driving. LOL.

Thanks for your help.
Bev

bakelly11

I figured it out. Yes, the kids can hear CD, tape or radio, no matter what I'm doing up front. I went out and bought 2 headphones with 8 feet cords. FYI, 8 feet cord is perfect length to reach the 3rd row. Plenty of extra cord, but not so much that its all over the car.

If you get a shorter cord (ie 4 foot), then you can buy a cord extension for about 7$ (Radio Shack) price.

Take Care,
Bev

hschultz

Welcome to the 21st century.

They're called 'wireless headphones'. You might want to try them out some time.

:-)

bakelly11

Heard they were a lot of money (per the Toyota dealer). Toyota book says you can get cordless headphones elsewhere, but says quality may be poor. I asked about it at Radio Shack and they said all of the ones they have won't work in the car.

I figured it would be better to go with the cord than to risk the quality issues of the cordless. My kids love them! And they were 40% off at Radio Shack for Memorial Day sales.

aelo26

Does anyone know if the DVD player comes standard with Line In options to hook up a VCR or Video Game, or is there a special wiring harness that must be ordered?

kgnw1

If your talking about the factory installed DVD, yes there are A/V inputs to plug in a video game or VCR. You'll also get a built in 115v AC power inverter with 2 outlets.

aelo26

Thanks kgnw1. Does that apply to any model with the factory installed DVD? (i.e LE Vs XLE or XLE limited?)

kgnw1

Yes for all vans deliver outside the gulf states region. I believe GST installs their own DVD's and might not include the AC and AV inputs.

scoti1

I have been reading on the internet that Toyota did something to the engine head on the new Siennas that reduces the temperatures that were causing the sludge problems in the 1997 - 2002 models. Does anyone know about this? Was this put in place on the 2003's or not until 2004?

(I posted this in a different forum but did not get a response so thought someone here could help)

kgnw1

Info from Toyota's Tech Specs:

3MZ-FE ENGINE

DESCRIPTION

The 3MZ-FE engine on the ’04 Sienna is a newly developed V6, 3.3-liter, 24-valve DOHC engine. It is based on the 1MZ-FE engine of the ’03 Sienna, in which the cylinder bore has been increased.

Furthermore, the VVT-i (Variable Valve Timing-intelligent) system, ACIS (Acoustic Control Induction System), and the ETCS-i (Electronic Throttle Control System-intelligent) have been adopted.

This engine complies with the ULEV-II (Ultra Low Emission Vehicle-II) regulations as a result of the changes made to its intake, exhaust, and fuel systems, as well as the optimal control of these systems.

stever

Toyota did change some of the oil passages I think - try a search for "sludge" and you'll find some old discussions that deal with the problem, and there was a Toyota rep talking about it. It's pretty old news, so you'll have to go back a ways.

Steve, Host

dakdikmen

Hi,

Still confused about the AWD/FWD Sienna. Some specs say the final drive ratio is 2.92/3.12 for FWD/AWD while someone posted that the front and rear drive ratios are different for AWD Sienna's.

I found another sight that states

"the power transfer unit is a gearbox that attaches to a transaxle. The right hand halfshaft passes through the transfer case and engages the differential side gear. The power transfer unit ring gear and carrier is driven the same speed as the right front axle shaft and overdrives the pinion gear and rear propshaft with the same gear ratio that the rear axle uses for gear reduction. This way the front and rear wheels rotate at the same speed regardless of the transaxle final drive gear ratio."

Can someone post at what RPM engine is when at 65MPH (and was it in 5th gear and which drive system they have (FWD/AWD).)

-Thanks

wwest

I said the RX300 front and rear final drive ratios were different and Lexus has told me that the new RX330 will also have different front and rear final drive ratios.

Since it appears that the Sienna AWD system is virtually a "clone" of the new RX330 AWD system then one would assume that the sienna also has different front and rear final drive ratios.

I was told by a Lexus factory representative that the purpose of this was to bias the engine torque more heavily to the front than the rear. Back when I bought my first RX the saleman insisted the torque split was 70/30 F/R.

My own suspicion is that as long as there is no "strain" on any part of the drivetrain, no slippage at any tire(s) nor any heavy acceleration or decel, then the open center diff'l acts as an "over-running clutch" and you get 50/50 torque F/R.

But the instant a rear tire slips (due to lighter weight) the torque becomes a function of the differing final drive ratios.

Only a guess, if anyone has a better explanation I, for one, am listening.

wwest

If you put a smaller circumference wheel/tire on one side of a RWD vs the other, with a simple open center rear diff'l it will have no effect normally since the open diff'l will take up the "slack".

But what happens if you go WOT?

stever

Way Off Topic?

Oh yeah, wide open throttle :-) Carry on.

Steve, Host

itch1

I was going to guess Without Tires ;-)

deepan

IIRC toyota increased the PCV passage for more gases to escape.

tjm6

I wonder if anyone has used CarsDirect.com to purchase a 2004 Sienna, and if you would be willing to share your experiences? I am seriously considering using them. Does anyone have any advice about this? I noticed that their given prices tend to be about $100-$120 higher than the Edmunds TMV 'optimal prices,' but if the system works as they say it does it would seem to save a lot of hassles and work. Note: I have always bought used cars and have never bought a new car. thanks in advance.

russell29

I am looking at the XLE limited AWD. How has the NAV system worked for you? Does it make the dash look to cluttered. Have not seen the NAV in person. Some dashes seem to look overcrowded with NAV. I have gone back an forth on the DVD entertainment system package or after market. How is the flip down screen and picture? Any input would be appreciated. Also, AWD vs FWD. No spare with the AWD. VCS and traction control with FWD. Any input on the AWD subject from owners who have it? Thanks a bunch

kgnw1

Here's a link to a couple pictures of the NAV in action. An added bonus for the NAV is that you can play DVD movies on the NAV screen while you are parked. It won't play while you have it in gear.

2004 Sienna

There are more pictures on Toyota's website.

Toyota.com - 2004 Sienna

kmead

I contacted Cars Direct, after all the hype, the price through them was 150 below MSRP and the associated local dealer never called. The CarsDirect representative was very nice, called several times, answered emails promptly and did a good job. Unfortunately I wanted a lower price than they would give at this time with "high demand and short supply".

I hope you have better luck. In my case, I could get 150 off just by frowning at the local dealer. Not very impressed with their (CarsDirect) "aggressive pricing".

beaghi

I will get my 2004 Sienna LE 8 tomorrow. At first I was told 8 weeks to get it but I pushed a bit and I got it in 4 days...

Price wise, there is no place for negociation in the Montreal area. Toyota has a new program where the dealers meet together and set a price that can not be changed. For the Sienna, the price is the list price! No deal possible. If a sale director give you another price he will loose his job. They would not even give me a free oil change...I managed to save 750$ by purshasing it in Ontario instead of Quebec. Next January, the program will be extended everywhere in Canada. No more deal for us. You better to get ready also in USA you may be the next target for Toyota. If Toyota has a good succes with this new program, Honda, Nissan and everybody else will follow.

backy

Toyota has a new program where the dealers meet together and set a price that can not be changed.

In the U.S. that's called collusion, i.e. price-fixing, and is illegal.

kgnw1

Doesn't Saturn have set prices for their vehicles? I thought all Saturn dealers sell at the same price.

pdfs

Hi,

I am interested in the NAV system. According to the Toyota Web, it is not clear to me if NAV system will prevent you have the 6-CD changer in the dash.

Thanks.

vanshopper7

In so many words, collusion is the collaboration with another to commit a violation of any set of rules or law.

Most commonly it is a secret agreement among competing firms in an industry to control the market, raise the market price, etc...

So, collusion and price-fixing would most likely occur if Toyota and Honda secretly collaborated. Clear as mud?