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So what? The portables are much cheaper. (The factory units cost 3 to 4 times as much!) If mine is lost or destroyed, I'll just buy a new one.
As mentioned previously in another post PNDs are much more attractive for thieves since they are portable.
Only if you leave it in plain sight. (This is so painfully obvious that I shouldn't have to point it out.)
As some users have mentioned not having to deal with taking the unit in and out of the car is a benefit as is the integration of other functions such as: climate control, radio, CD-changer, automotive diagnostics, back-up camera, XM ,MP3 players (iPod), etc.
Sorry, but I don't see this as a benefit. I don't need help with these non-core functions. I bought a navigator because I wanted help navigating. For help with the other stuff, I have a wife.
And why do you view "taking the unit in and out of the car" as a disadvantage? This claim makes no sense at all. If you have several vehicles in your household, you want those vehicles to share your nav. Corporate America calls that "leveraging your investment" & it's seen by almost everyone as a good thing. As I noted in an earlier post, I have 3 vehicles in my household that can share 1 Garmin c330.
To repeat what I've said elsewhere about factory systems: they're not yet ready for prime time. Before they become gotta-haves in the same way that factory A/C is seen as indispensable, they have to get (1) better &, more importantly, (2) cheaper. I don't doubt that this will happen in a very few years. It just hasn't happened yet.
As far as my wife, she is not with me everywhere I drive, and, when she is, we don't always agree on the music choice or even temperature of the car. ;b
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Actually, I do see these features as benefits. My point is simply that the additional cost of these benefits is out of all proportion to their value. Those who buy factory systems today are effectively paying 3 or more times as much for 25% more functionality.
I've also said that we can expect to see the price gap between factory & portable systems narrow dramatically in a few years. When that happens, you can be sure that I'll go the OEM route.
Freedom of choice is indeed a wonderful thing. I wouldn't dream of disputing that. But it's clear to me that for the value-oriented (read stingy) buyer like me, the portable is today's preferred solution.
By all means, spend your money as you see fit.
ah, ok, then we agree. You previously stated you didn't see the benefit (post 510), that's why I made that comment.
In any case, I'm not exactly arguing that these features are worth all the extra money they currently charge, and I also agree the price will come down, I'm just not sure it will ever be in line with your assessment. Integrating all those systems is just too complicated of a process. Whereas the end product might only be 25% better in your view, I think the complications of the integration may always exceed 25% price difference. But we'll see. I'm certainly hoping for a big price drop, too.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-10895_7-6394660-1.html?tag=more
He just points out some things said here such as needing to enter your destination before moving, etc.
Personally, at this time I have a portable unit and am happy with it. It has proven a good choice, particularily when I have travelled around the country on vacation. Plus, my Garmin has Canada as well -I'm not sure if the in-car units have those maps as well.
Mark
My homeowners' policy covers the contents of my car. My roommate's CDs were covered when his car was broken into.
DVD map disc is completely full
Are you sure? How do you know that? That's difficult to verify unless you've actually analyzed each DVD. Perhaps you have access to more information than me.
PND Theft - Garmin can actually trace the serial number and help the cops locate the stolen unit. They can also disable the NAV if it's stolen. Not much incentive to steal, then.
Integration is a benefit if it becomes easier to use whatever you are integrating. In the case of Mercedes, BMW, and Audi, devices like iDrive and MMI make adjusting the radio a nuisance. I'd rather have conventional controls. I'd actually prefer a BMW 3 series without iDrive, since you have both options, even if it means giving up NAV.
If it's a touch-screen that accept voice input, now you're talking, that can be a lot better.
So I'd say "it depends". Only if it makes life easier.
Mark: I had that issue with the Subaru Tribeca. You have to pull over to change your destination, even when your wife is there to make changes. I'd suggest the same weight sensor used for the passenger air bags be used to determine if there is someone in that seat, if so LET US PROGRAM THE NAV! :mad:
-juice
Map data can have different compression algorithms. My latest software upgrade now has all the US on less than 1G. The geeks say there is no loss of detail.
I don't think you can assume the factory units have more/better basic navigational functionality.
My NAV doens't miss a single fast food joint, but it didn't list the Potomac Community Center for some odd reason. That's been around for ages, too.
-juice
Also not all POI is the same. There are different sources of POI and some companies use multiple sources and some don't. Some companies take the data they get and put it into the nav directly. Some companies first perform proprietary cleanup and merging activities on the data. Acura vehicles include Zagat restaurant ratings and few (any?) other systems include this info. Some systems will display trademarked POI icons (ie McDonalds) some display only generic icons. Some don't display them at all.
Then there are different views. Turn-by-turn. 3D. Compass orientation, direction of travel orientation.
Comparing systems is not quite as simple as you may think.
It seemed as if the emphasis on size of files was implying far better routing and POI count for factory units. I'm not really an expert, but the experts are not confirming this is true.
The biggest factor in mapping accuracy is the age of your software. I'm reading even new editions are two years out of date when they come out. This is not a big problem unless you are navigating in a rapidly expanding area or looking for a particular restaurant, which are notorious for going in and out of business. No system can compensate for the inherent delays in updates.
* freeway or non-freeway
* toll roads or not
* detours (i.e. yes or no to U-turns)
* choice of route
* POI with names (not proprietary icons, though)
* all 3 views you mentioned
For $404 that ain't bad. No voice recognition, of course, not at that price.
-juice
If it works, it seems tempting to have an automotive GPS system on you at all times...
If you come to any conclusions as to what is best for you, please let us know what you decided.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I went ahead and purchased the Lowrance this weekend. They just came out with a new 350C? unit so the 500 has just been offered for:
LOWRANCE iWay 500c GPS Receiver - Price listed is before a $100 factory rebate!
IN STOCK! Qty:1 $619.00
----------------------------------------------------
Sub-Total: $619.00
Shipping: $19.00
Tax: $0.00
Total:$638.00
Got it from trusteddealer.com. It was my choice even before the rebate so I am sure I will be pleased.
I liked the fact that it has a 4" screen and doesn't require downloads for the maps. The hard drive comes loaded with it. Also, 1/2 the hard drive remains for mp3's.
I'm still waiting for my 500 from the N.Y. Dealer I ordered from. They said 5-15 days for shipping.
The screen is small, but it would be nice if the cost is small and my wife was using our Garmin.
-juice
The one really cool thing is Bluetooth! Not only can you place and receive calls via Bluetooth is the SMS. When you receive a message the text is displayed on the Tom Tom... I was like WOW! However if you dont use it... wont benefit you much. But it is very cool!
The different voices available is also a neat addition. Not only do they offer voice in English they pretty much cover the globe in terms of languages. Plus, you can download certain 'charachters' to give your voice prompts a unique flavor. Check it out on Tom Tom's website... its a hoot!
A friend of mine that first laughed at my c320 now bought a kit to use with his iPaq.
-juice
I used to be able to get just the Eastern Seaboard states (plus West Virginia) on a 512K card. Now everything east of the Mississippi, plus all of Eastern Canada, fits.
There are some things our Garmin c320 won't do that the Nav built into our Acura will, like take multiple destinations and calculate a "best" order to hit them in. (Useful if you are looking at open houses on a Sunday.)
But Garmin seems generally to have done a cleaner job of categorizing POI's. It's annoying with the Acura to type in a store name like "Safeway" and not be able to find a store you know exists because they've been categorized in a category other than Shopping-Groceries or because one has been entered as "Safeway Stores" which only shows up after all the stores entered as just "Safeway."
And, as for differences between units that may matter to some people, apparently Toyota units will recognize and provide routes along roads that reverse direction during rush hours. Acura and Garmin Nav's act like those roads don't exist. That's a pain in a city like Washington, DC which has a LOT of major routes that are one way into the city in the morning and one way out in the evening.
I called Garmin tech support and they told me about the time-restricted roads.
Any how, for a commute, you already know where you're going, so you probably don't need the NAV to tell you how to get there. Well, unless it's your first day of work!
-juice
Steve, Host
Ironically a better solution might be to go aftermarket, TomTom makes a GPS/XM traffic model that has that capability built-in:
http://tomtom.com/products/features.php?ID=77&Language=4
I think Garmin has one too, but I can't seem to find it on their web site right now. Theirs was also an XM receiver and MP3 player.
-juice
http://www.alpine-usa.com/en/products/product.php?model=PMD-B100
-juice
Biggest issue is finding a place in your car for it. In my sedan, the only place it would fit is the passenger seat. Looking over and down at your passenger seat to see the map is not exactly safe or easy. Second, since it doesn't have the advantage of a touchscreen, inputting info on the fly is virtually impossible. I guess that's not all that different from an OEM system, though, since you can't use most of those while the car is in motion, either.
Other than that, I wasn't at all pleased with the way the software I had acted (i used Delorme with the Earthmate GPS). It was very glitchy. I do have Streets and Trips from Microsoft that I could probably use with the Earthmate GPS I have, but, due to the other reasons listed in the previous paragraph, I just never bothered trying.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
If you go that route, a Palm or other hand-held would make more sense to me, since you could mount it somewhere and still be able to see it and drive.
What I like about the c320 is that it's very portable, light, small, and easy-to-use (touch screen). The fact that is has a battery means you can take it in to your house to enter destinations, very handy.
You can do that with laptops, too, but you're stuck carrying 4-8 pounds every time.
I liked the earlier solution where that Sedona had a laptop with both NAV and DVD players, visible to driver and rear passengers, but even then I'd be concerned about laptop theft.
By the time you buy the GPS software and the external antennae, you may not save much, either.
Space is the #1 issue, though.
-juice
Mark
-juice
I had purchased a c320 for the wife a while back (some may remember), but it kept losing satellites when driving in the city. Sounds like there are a bunch of new devices out there and wanted to see if any of them had this capability (is there a term for this?? "dead-reckoning"?)
To contrast, the built-in GPS in my brother's Honda seems to work really well regardless of the location. (this isn't an option for us as we aren't in the market for a new car).
http://www.garmin.com/products/sp2660/
Built-in products have this as well as the ability to sense when the vehicle turns.
Ouch... this one is $1750, but at least I now have the right terminology so I can search for others.
The catch is it often takes a minute or two to get a signal initially. So coming out of the garage, it's a block or two before it "finds" itself.
I drove a Tribeca to work, and it took about the same amount of time to get a signal. It was better about remembering where it was, but only slightly.
-juice
If I get a new vehicle, I'm pretty likely to buy a 2nd Garmin unit and mount it permanently. Very likely I'd get that external antennae, then mount the unit itself in the dash somewhere.
The Forester has a storage bin at the top of the dash, you can buy a hood that goes above it and includes a face plate for gauges. But I know at least one owner has put a c330 there instead, so it should fit. I'd just have to fabricate the face plate (probably from wood or plastic).
CR-V has that bin in the center, someone has used that successfully.
I'd rather spend $5-600 or so and do it myself vs. $2 grand for the OE units. I really hope the price of NAV drops as it becomes more common. I think for a grand or maybe even $1200 or so, I'd just get the OE one.
Here's what I'm talking about on the Subie:
-juice
1. The GPS works with 4 or more satellites locked in. It will sort of function with 3 but you get altitude with 4 or more.
2. Sitting on the dash, the GPS unit can "see" to the zenith (on most cars - about 90 deg of sky) and fully left and right when looking for satellites.
3. With a roof mounted antenna, the unit can see just about the full 180 deg from horizon to horizon. It should see twice as many satellites, on average. Lockup should be much faster as well, because the satellites it sees don't keep dissapearing because you just turned.
3. Most windshields contain metallic particles to get the dark banding across the top, and tinting. This attenuates the GPS signal. Worst case are the "heated windshields". It's difficult to get a GPS to work on the dash of a vehicle with this feature, as the heating element occupies the entire windshield and is metal. It blocks GPS and cell signals quite well. The heating elements in rear windows aren't nearly as effective in blocking signals. They can't use that technology on a windshield though, as it's considered a "visual obstruction" - a no no in a front window.
As for fixed mounting, I opt to not make it difficult to remove. Being able to remove the unit to take it elsewhere (to update the firmware, for example), is the main advantage of portable units. I like to use velcro to mount mine (the velcro tape you can stick to the dash - hook side on the dash and loop side on the GPS). You could stick it into the hood using this method (connect the cords and feed them into a hole as you prepare to velcro it down). The auxilluray instrument hoods allow you to hide the power and antenna cords.
Steve, Host
-juice
I don't have much to spend either. Can I get anything that works good at a decent price? Can someone give me an idea on where to start looking at these things? :confuse:
I found the Garmin c series easy to use, plus the battery makes it truly portable, and the cost was reasonable (just over $400 shipped).
There are new models out there, so see if you can sample a Tom Tom and a Magellan unit as well. All have different features.
I think you can "test drive" them at Best Buy, but they use a demo mode that isn't quite like using the real thing.
Ask your friends, someone probably has one already.
-juice
http://www.garmin.com/products/nuvi/
The nüvi 350 has a 3-9/16" touch screen and is so small that it fits in my shirt pocket or gets lost in my wife's pocketbook, but performs better than most larger aftermarket systems. It's received great reviews too. It can be had for under $700. Highly recommended.
http://www.excaliberpc.com/
Here's what I found today,
http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__Garmin_nuvi_350_Personal_Travel_Assistant,__11841- 514/sort_type=price
From what I've read elsewhere, I believe that Garmin has been doing a bit of vendor price control recently.