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Navigation GPS Systems

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Comments

  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    OEM units are covered by the vehicle's insurance. If something should happen to the vehicle (vandalism, accident, etc.) your automotive policy will cover the loss less your deductible. PNDs are not covered by the auto policy since they are not bolted the vehicle or occupy the space of a factory component.OEM units are covered by the vehicle's insurance. If something should happen to the vehicle (vandalism, accident, etc.) your automotive policy will cover the loss less your deductible. PNDs are not covered by the auto policy since they are not bolted the vehicle or occupy the space of a factory component.

    So what? The portables are much cheaper. (The factory units cost 3 to 4 times as much!) If mine is lost or destroyed, I'll just buy a new one.

    As mentioned previously in another post PNDs are much more attractive for thieves since they are portable.

    Only if you leave it in plain sight. (This is so painfully obvious that I shouldn't have to point it out.)

    As some users have mentioned not having to deal with taking the unit in and out of the car is a benefit as is the integration of other functions such as: climate control, radio, CD-changer, automotive diagnostics, back-up camera, XM ,MP3 players (iPod), etc.

    Sorry, but I don't see this as a benefit. I don't need help with these non-core functions. I bought a navigator because I wanted help navigating. For help with the other stuff, I have a wife.

    And why do you view "taking the unit in and out of the car" as a disadvantage? This claim makes no sense at all. If you have several vehicles in your household, you want those vehicles to share your nav. Corporate America calls that "leveraging your investment" & it's seen by almost everyone as a good thing. As I noted in an earlier post, I have 3 vehicles in my household that can share 1 Garmin c330.

    To repeat what I've said elsewhere about factory systems: they're not yet ready for prime time. Before they become gotta-haves in the same way that factory A/C is seen as indispensable, they have to get (1) better &, more importantly, (2) cheaper. I don't doubt that this will happen in a very few years. It just hasn't happened yet.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,733
    Seeing as how they are or, in some cases, will be integrated into so many other systems in the car, they will never be as cheap as standalone units that only navigate. And YOU may not see these other features as benefits, but others do. So you can go ahead and stick with your standalone nav. Others can have more features, if they so choose. Freedom of choice is a wonderful thing. Gives us all what we want.

    As far as my wife, she is not with me everywhere I drive, and, when she is, we don't always agree on the music choice or even temperature of the car. ;b

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Seeing as how they are or, in some cases, will be integrated into so many other systems in the car, they will never be as cheap as standalone units that only navigate. And YOU may not see these other features as benefits, but others do.

    Actually, I do see these features as benefits. My point is simply that the additional cost of these benefits is out of all proportion to their value. Those who buy factory systems today are effectively paying 3 or more times as much for 25% more functionality.

    I've also said that we can expect to see the price gap between factory & portable systems narrow dramatically in a few years. When that happens, you can be sure that I'll go the OEM route.

    Freedom of choice is indeed a wonderful thing. I wouldn't dream of disputing that. But it's clear to me that for the value-oriented (read stingy) buyer like me, the portable is today's preferred solution.

    By all means, spend your money as you see fit.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,733
    Actually, I do see these features as benefits.

    ah, ok, then we agree. You previously stated you didn't see the benefit (post 510), that's why I made that comment.

    In any case, I'm not exactly arguing that these features are worth all the extra money they currently charge, and I also agree the price will come down, I'm just not sure it will ever be in line with your assessment. Integrating all those systems is just too complicated of a process. Whereas the end product might only be 25% better in your view, I think the complications of the integration may always exceed 25% price difference. But we'll see. I'm certainly hoping for a big price drop, too.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Not trying to stir the fires any, but there was an article at CNET.com back in November concerning in car navigation systems that might be worth reading.

    http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-10895_7-6394660-1.html?tag=more

    He just points out some things said here such as needing to enter your destination before moving, etc.

    Personally, at this time I have a portable unit and am happy with it. It has proven a good choice, particularily when I have travelled around the country on vacation. Plus, my Garmin has Canada as well -I'm not sure if the in-car units have those maps as well.

    Mark
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We just want to paint the whole picture, built-in units definitely have their advantages.

    My homeowners' policy covers the contents of my car. My roommate's CDs were covered when his car was broken into.

    DVD map disc is completely full

    Are you sure? How do you know that? That's difficult to verify unless you've actually analyzed each DVD. Perhaps you have access to more information than me.

    PND Theft - Garmin can actually trace the serial number and help the cops locate the stolen unit. They can also disable the NAV if it's stolen. Not much incentive to steal, then.

    Integration is a benefit if it becomes easier to use whatever you are integrating. In the case of Mercedes, BMW, and Audi, devices like iDrive and MMI make adjusting the radio a nuisance. I'd rather have conventional controls. I'd actually prefer a BMW 3 series without iDrive, since you have both options, even if it means giving up NAV.

    If it's a touch-screen that accept voice input, now you're talking, that can be a lot better.

    So I'd say "it depends". Only if it makes life easier.

    Mark: I had that issue with the Subaru Tribeca. You have to pull over to change your destination, even when your wife is there to make changes. I'd suggest the same weight sensor used for the passenger air bags be used to determine if there is someone in that seat, if so LET US PROGRAM THE NAV! :mad:

    -juice
  • rwisemrwisem Member Posts: 96
    I started checking the navigation geek forums on the web before purchasing my Garmin C320. What I earned is that the best maps are by Navtech, used by Garmin, Mapquest and most of the OEM's. The actual street and POI info should be the same on all these systems.

    Map data can have different compression algorithms. My latest software upgrade now has all the US on less than 1G. The geeks say there is no loss of detail.

    I don't think you can assume the factory units have more/better basic navigational functionality.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Interesting.

    My NAV doens't miss a single fast food joint, but it didn't list the Potomac Community Center for some odd reason. That's been around for ages, too.

    -juice
  • mdchachimdchachi Member Posts: 275
    You are confusing functionality with data. Even if they all use the same map data, each maker has their own proprietary routing algorithms and make use of the data differently. For example, some systems allow you to specify freeway or non-freeway. Or use of toll roads or not. Or some systems have a Detour functionality and some don't. Some have voice recognition, some don't. Some give you a choice of routes, some don't. Some allow you to modify the route on a segment-by-segment basis (e.g. avoid a specific street). etc.

    Also not all POI is the same. There are different sources of POI and some companies use multiple sources and some don't. Some companies take the data they get and put it into the nav directly. Some companies first perform proprietary cleanup and merging activities on the data. Acura vehicles include Zagat restaurant ratings and few (any?) other systems include this info. Some systems will display trademarked POI icons (ie McDonalds) some display only generic icons. Some don't display them at all.

    Then there are different views. Turn-by-turn. 3D. Compass orientation, direction of travel orientation.

    Comparing systems is not quite as simple as you may think.
  • rwisemrwisem Member Posts: 96
    You are right that there is a significant difference in bells and whistles, but I was referring to basic navigational functionality. Most any unit does provide for routing options, though.

    It seemed as if the emphasis on size of files was implying far better routing and POI count for factory units. I'm not really an expert, but the experts are not confirming this is true.

    The biggest factor in mapping accuracy is the age of your software. I'm reading even new editions are two years out of date when they come out. This is not a big problem unless you are navigating in a rapidly expanding area or looking for a particular restaurant, which are notorious for going in and out of business. No system can compensate for the inherent delays in updates.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My very affordable Garmin c320 does almost everything you listed in that post.

    * freeway or non-freeway
    * toll roads or not
    * detours (i.e. yes or no to U-turns)
    * choice of route
    * POI with names (not proprietary icons, though)
    * all 3 views you mentioned

    For $404 that ain't bad. No voice recognition, of course, not at that price.

    -juice
  • mazda6iguymazda6iguy Member Posts: 365
    I haven't heard much here about the Tom Tom. How are these units compared to others? The Tom Tom 700 just became available at Sam's Club.
  • mdchachimdchachi Member Posts: 275
    I haven't played with one myself but I have heard that the interface is very good and it's easy to use.
  • mdchachimdchachi Member Posts: 275
    Has anybody tried out mobile phone GPS such as http://www.telenav.com/ ?

    If it works, it seems tempting to have an automotive GPS system on you at all times...
  • mdchachimdchachi Member Posts: 275
    I don't care for the RoadMate that much in terms of interface and graphics. I saw the Lowrance at an automotive trade show in November it seemed like a great value however I didn't play with it enough to be able to recommend it. I would also look into TomTom.

    If you come to any conclusions as to what is best for you, please let us know what you decided.
  • mdchachimdchachi Member Posts: 275
    Yes, when it comes down to it they all rely in the same data vendors -- Navteq and/or Teleatlas. And routing algorithms are only as good as the underlying data. So data update frequency is a key factor. Definitely.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,733
    Cnet rates the TomTom very high. Whether that is significant or not ... I have no idea. Just thought I'd throw it out there. ;)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • jfranksjfranks Member Posts: 9
    First off, thanks for replying.

    I went ahead and purchased the Lowrance this weekend. They just came out with a new 350C? unit so the 500 has just been offered for:

    LOWRANCE iWay 500c GPS Receiver - Price listed is before a $100 factory rebate!
    IN STOCK! Qty:1 $619.00
    ----------------------------------------------------

    Sub-Total: $619.00

    Shipping: $19.00
    Tax: $0.00
    Total:$638.00

    Got it from trusteddealer.com. It was my choice even before the rebate so I am sure I will be pleased.

    I liked the fact that it has a 4" screen and doesn't require downloads for the maps. The hard drive comes loaded with it. Also, 1/2 the hard drive remains for mp3's.
  • pilotpilot Member Posts: 9
    just purchased the lowrance iway350c, works great, does everything i need 419.54 delieved to my door.
  • jfranksjfranks Member Posts: 9
    Glad you like it. Since they have been in the business so many years making boat GPS units I figured they must be pretty good and pretty rugged.

    I'm still waiting for my 500 from the N.Y. Dealer I ordered from. They said 5-15 days for shipping.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Looks interesting, but they don't support T-Mobile yet. I registered for updates so when they do I'll know.

    The screen is small, but it would be nice if the cost is small and my wife was using our Garmin.

    -juice
  • navguynavguy Member Posts: 61
    We also have a Tom Tom 700 and its pretty good. The only major drawback is the display gets washed out in directly sunlight and its difficult to delete a destination when in progress. As far as the sunlight goes they could make a hood to snap on to the front of the unit since it offers different colored rings that are interchangable.

    The one really cool thing is Bluetooth! Not only can you place and receive calls via Bluetooth is the SMS. When you receive a message the text is displayed on the Tom Tom... I was like WOW! However if you dont use it... wont benefit you much. But it is very cool!

    The different voices available is also a neat addition. Not only do they offer voice in English they pretty much cover the globe in terms of languages. Plus, you can download certain 'charachters' to give your voice prompts a unique flavor. Check it out on Tom Tom's website... its a hoot! ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sounds good. I really want to see one in action.

    A friend of mine that first laughed at my c320 now bought a kit to use with his iPaq. :)

    -juice
  • jrynnjrynn Member Posts: 162
    The compression on Garmin files has evidently gone WAY up from v6 to v7 maps (or between the October 2005 software and current software).

    I used to be able to get just the Eastern Seaboard states (plus West Virginia) on a 512K card. Now everything east of the Mississippi, plus all of Eastern Canada, fits.

    There are some things our Garmin c320 won't do that the Nav built into our Acura will, like take multiple destinations and calculate a "best" order to hit them in. (Useful if you are looking at open houses on a Sunday.)

    But Garmin seems generally to have done a cleaner job of categorizing POI's. It's annoying with the Acura to type in a store name like "Safeway" and not be able to find a store you know exists because they've been categorized in a category other than Shopping-Groceries or because one has been entered as "Safeway Stores" which only shows up after all the stores entered as just "Safeway."

    And, as for differences between units that may matter to some people, apparently Toyota units will recognize and provide routes along roads that reverse direction during rush hours. Acura and Garmin Nav's act like those roads don't exist. That's a pain in a city like Washington, DC which has a LOT of major routes that are one way into the city in the morning and one way out in the evening.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good point, my Garmin and Subaru's NAV system both kept telling me to get off of Canal Rd, even though there was no traffic and I was flying. Both wanted to use MacArthur Blvd, with a 25mph speed limit and plenty of lights!

    I called Garmin tech support and they told me about the time-restricted roads.

    Any how, for a commute, you already know where you're going, so you probably don't need the NAV to tell you how to get there. Well, unless it's your first day of work!

    -juice
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Karl on Cars

    Steve, Host
  • salsasalsa Member Posts: 20
    I'm about to buy my wife a Honda Odyssey with OEM navigation. Is there any way to add an integrated bluetooth phone and real-time traffic? Those are two features I would like to have in the nav system.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That might be hard/expensive to accomplish. The RL has it, but the question is, is it the same hardware, i.e. can it be added on?

    Ironically a better solution might be to go aftermarket, TomTom makes a GPS/XM traffic model that has that capability built-in:

    http://tomtom.com/products/features.php?ID=77&Language=4

    I think Garmin has one too, but I can't seem to find it on their web site right now. Theirs was also an XM receiver and MP3 player.

    -juice
  • dampfnudeldampfnudel Member Posts: 131
    This new portable navi from Alpine looks interesting.

    http://www.alpine-usa.com/en/products/product.php?model=PMD-B100
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Edmunds ought to compare these systems. Looks similar to my c320 except it adds the FM and SD slot.

    -juice
  • gurplegurple Member Posts: 8
    I'm interested in a nav system for my car and was thinking of the Garmin c320, but in my limited research I found that Microsoft had something that uses your portable computer and adds it's map software and a gps, would it work-and how would it compare to the Garmin--help!
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,733
    well, this is personal opinion for the most part, but i tried the laptop setup and didn't find it the least bit convenient.

    Biggest issue is finding a place in your car for it. In my sedan, the only place it would fit is the passenger seat. Looking over and down at your passenger seat to see the map is not exactly safe or easy. Second, since it doesn't have the advantage of a touchscreen, inputting info on the fly is virtually impossible. I guess that's not all that different from an OEM system, though, since you can't use most of those while the car is in motion, either.

    Other than that, I wasn't at all pleased with the way the software I had acted (i used Delorme with the Earthmate GPS). It was very glitchy. I do have Streets and Trips from Microsoft that I could probably use with the Earthmate GPS I have, but, due to the other reasons listed in the previous paragraph, I just never bothered trying.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Completely different, IMO. Do you even have space for a laptop? It is cheaper, since you already paid for the laptop, but is your center console wide enough to mount it? Only on some vans and large SUVs.

    If you go that route, a Palm or other hand-held would make more sense to me, since you could mount it somewhere and still be able to see it and drive.

    What I like about the c320 is that it's very portable, light, small, and easy-to-use (touch screen). The fact that is has a battery means you can take it in to your house to enter destinations, very handy.

    You can do that with laptops, too, but you're stuck carrying 4-8 pounds every time.

    I liked the earlier solution where that Sedona had a laptop with both NAV and DVD players, visible to driver and rear passengers, but even then I'd be concerned about laptop theft.

    By the time you buy the GPS software and the external antennae, you may not save much, either.

    Space is the #1 issue, though.

    -juice
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    One feature on my Garmin 2610 is the remote control. It comes in very handy when needing to look for a fuel/food stop. And, before anyone says something about the driver inputting (which I admit to doing sometimes), with the remote who ever is riding with me can do the search.

    Mark
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Probably much easier than using a laptop mouse...by far.

    -juice
  • sunilbsunilb Member Posts: 407
    Is there a gps device that has good connections while in a city?

    I had purchased a c320 for the wife a while back (some may remember), but it kept losing satellites when driving in the city. Sounds like there are a bunch of new devices out there and wanted to see if any of them had this capability (is there a term for this?? "dead-reckoning"?)

    To contrast, the built-in GPS in my brother's Honda seems to work really well regardless of the location. (this isn't an option for us as we aren't in the market for a new car).
  • mdchachimdchachi Member Posts: 275
    Yes, dead reckoning. The StreetPilot 2660 has this. (Note you need to connect it to your vehicle's speedometer).
    http://www.garmin.com/products/sp2660/

    Built-in products have this as well as the ability to sense when the vehicle turns.
  • sunilbsunilb Member Posts: 407
    Excellent... thanks!

    Ouch... this one is $1750, but at least I now have the right terminology so I can search for others.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I have a c320, and it will occasionally lose a signal, but it still works pretty well overall in DC.

    The catch is it often takes a minute or two to get a signal initially. So coming out of the garage, it's a block or two before it "finds" itself.

    I drove a Tribeca to work, and it took about the same amount of time to get a signal. It was better about remembering where it was, but only slightly.

    -juice
  • pathstar1pathstar1 Member Posts: 1,015
    With most portables in most cars you can make a big difference in signal by getting an external antenna. They are powered via the GPS unit and are "active" antennas that you can just stick on the roof (they are available magnetic). These things are tiny and they work very well if good signals is what you want. The cords are small enough they will pass through most door jambs without damage.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Interesting...

    If I get a new vehicle, I'm pretty likely to buy a 2nd Garmin unit and mount it permanently. Very likely I'd get that external antennae, then mount the unit itself in the dash somewhere.

    The Forester has a storage bin at the top of the dash, you can buy a hood that goes above it and includes a face plate for gauges. But I know at least one owner has put a c330 there instead, so it should fit. I'd just have to fabricate the face plate (probably from wood or plastic).

    CR-V has that bin in the center, someone has used that successfully.

    I'd rather spend $5-600 or so and do it myself vs. $2 grand for the OE units. I really hope the price of NAV drops as it becomes more common. I think for a grand or maybe even $1200 or so, I'd just get the OE one.

    Here's what I'm talking about on the Subie:

    image

    -juice
  • pathstar1pathstar1 Member Posts: 1,015
    The reason the external antenna works so well is:
    1. The GPS works with 4 or more satellites locked in. It will sort of function with 3 but you get altitude with 4 or more.
    2. Sitting on the dash, the GPS unit can "see" to the zenith (on most cars - about 90 deg of sky) and fully left and right when looking for satellites.
    3. With a roof mounted antenna, the unit can see just about the full 180 deg from horizon to horizon. It should see twice as many satellites, on average. Lockup should be much faster as well, because the satellites it sees don't keep dissapearing because you just turned.
    3. Most windshields contain metallic particles to get the dark banding across the top, and tinting. This attenuates the GPS signal. Worst case are the "heated windshields". It's difficult to get a GPS to work on the dash of a vehicle with this feature, as the heating element occupies the entire windshield and is metal. It blocks GPS and cell signals quite well. The heating elements in rear windows aren't nearly as effective in blocking signals. They can't use that technology on a windshield though, as it's considered a "visual obstruction" - a no no in a front window.

    As for fixed mounting, I opt to not make it difficult to remove. Being able to remove the unit to take it elsewhere (to update the firmware, for example), is the main advantage of portable units. I like to use velcro to mount mine (the velcro tape you can stick to the dash - hook side on the dash and loop side on the GPS). You could stick it into the hood using this method (connect the cords and feed them into a hole as you prepare to velcro it down). The auxilluray instrument hoods allow you to hide the power and antenna cords.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    TeleNav launchs GPS on BlackBerry 7100i (Straightline)

    Steve, Host
  • agnostoagnosto Member Posts: 207
    Is there a place that sells the Garmin GPS Nuvi 350 for less than $749.00 ???
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't think my carrier (T-Mobile) offers that yet, however.

    -juice
  • likeitornotlikeitornot Member Posts: 42
    I just started reading and looking at these last week at BestBuy. I don't even know what I'm looking at or where to begin. I don't want to go somewhere like BestBuy and overpay for one. I just want something to give me good directions, BETTER than Mapquest. I hate Mapquest, everytime I print directions off there..they are so off. Google Earth is good. But still I want something in my car like that.

    I don't have much to spend either. Can I get anything that works good at a decent price? Can someone give me an idea on where to start looking at these things? :confuse:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What worked for me was a current owner showing me the ropes, basically Dennis had a c330 and demonstrated it for me. This is after I'd used an in-vehicle NAV system in a Subaru Tribeca, so I could compare.

    I found the Garmin c series easy to use, plus the battery makes it truly portable, and the cost was reasonable (just over $400 shipped).

    There are new models out there, so see if you can sample a Tom Tom and a Magellan unit as well. All have different features.

    I think you can "test drive" them at Best Buy, but they use a demo mode that isn't quite like using the real thing.

    Ask your friends, someone probably has one already.

    -juice
  • blaneblane Member Posts: 2,017
    While I love all of the features of the voice controlled OEM Navigation System in my 2004 Honda Accord, I've bitten the bullet and gotten a Garmin nüvi 350 for use in my wife's 2002 Subaru Legacy and in rental cars while travelling.

    http://www.garmin.com/products/nuvi/

    The nüvi 350 has a 3-9/16" touch screen and is so small that it fits in my shirt pocket or gets lost in my wife's pocketbook, but performs better than most larger aftermarket systems. It's received great reviews too. It can be had for under $700. Highly recommended.
  • agnostoagnosto Member Posts: 207
    So, what is the place that has the Garmin nuvi 350 navigation for under $700.00?
  • blaneblane Member Posts: 2,017
    I purchased here about 3 weeks ago for $694, but checking today, I see that they are at list price.

    http://www.excaliberpc.com/

    Here's what I found today,

    http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__Garmin_nuvi_350_Personal_Travel_Assistant,__11841- 514/sort_type=price

    From what I've read elsewhere, I believe that Garmin has been doing a bit of vendor price control recently.
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