Navigation GPS Systems

robr2

Get yourself an iPhone and one of the nav apps from Tomtom or Garmin. Constantly updated maps.

Mr_Shiftright

Well you need a data plan so it's all part of my cell phone/internet service. I think for everything, from Verizon, I pay $98 a month. The NAV program is free and built into the phone, and all updates are free. You also get google maps with that, and a GPS locator, which is very cool for say hiking around.

What I do is put the phone on a cradle, then jack it into the car's stereo, which has that input plug + a USB input as well (use it to listen to podcasts stored on flash drives---very nice for driving).

My cost analysis figures it like this---it costs $30 a month extra for the data part of the cell phone plane, plus wiring another stereo head into my car's speaker system (I think the whole shebang cost me about $275) and this is versus either putting NAV in my MINI, which is *very* expensive, or buying a Garmin or some such. I thought about the Garmin but then decided a) I have to hide it when I leave the car, or take it with me, and it's kinda big and b) I have to update it and c) I'd rather use the phone APP because it's so convenient to just unplug it and take with me for other purposes.

The Droid APP also has features for walking and bicycling, and I've actually mounted it to my handlebars and listened to directions while pedaling. It's pretty neat.

And yes, the DROID APP finds gas stations, rest rooms, etc. I can also speak to it while I drive and ask it to find me, say, a Starbuck's.

It's a bit clunky to use EN ROUTE when trying to select new routes while driving. I'd recommend stopping of course instead of trying to do a touch-screen at 70 mph. (Not that *I* would ever do such a thing).

gagrice

You do make a good case for the smartphone with GPS apps. However from reading about the 3 major vendors it seems your GPS NAV goes away when you are out of cell phone service range. I guess I just want it all and that may not be available yet. I will take another look at the smartphones when I am at Costco.

Mr_Shiftright

I don't experience dropouts but I guess it would be a problem in very rural areas, for sure. If you're doing a lot of cross country, e.g. an RV lifestyle, I don't think I'd recommend it.

But even with purely satellite systems you're going to get dropouts. I thought SIRIUS and XM were awful in that regard. Every obstacle seemed to cut the signal.

stever

Coverage would be a problem for me - sometimes I can't get service in my house (plaster walls) and have to move near a window when I use my prepaid cell for some reason. Go twenty miles south and zilch. You'd think you could dial in your destination and have the app download the info you need when it's out of range, using a built in GPS to keep track of where you are.

The Garmin is a bit bulky, although I have carried it around in "pedestrian" mode. Not sure if I'd want to mess with it hiking. I think battery life would be an issue too.

It has "lifetime" updates but I rarely use the POIs so can't say if they are all that accurate. And it doesn't do real time gas prices either.

Hopefully in another few years we'll look back and laugh at the current limitations. I want a rig that cradles in the dash, has a screen that folds out to a bigger size when I want it, reads my emails to me and tells me when it's time to change my oil and get an anniversary gift. Never need charging and fits flat in my front pocket in walking mode.

imidazol97

>en I use my prepaid cell

Is that a Net10 or Tracfone? Did you buy your cell phone in the area where you are or did you have it in Boise area? I notice that if you are using tracfone/Net10, the Boise area was GSM5 and UP is COGSM.

stever

It's PagePlus out of Oregon, and I got it while in Boise. They use the Verizon network. Costs me $10 every three months to keep it active and the 100 minutes roll. Probably use it 10 times a quarter, if that. Ten cents a minute on the minimum plan, no contract.

imidazol97

The Verizon coverage map shows a few areas where they don't cover near the lake.

http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/#?type=voice&lat=46.524286578599856&l- on=-87.39672453069846&sci=9

An ATT or T-Mobile GSM phone by Tracfone for $10 at Walmart might work there.

http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/#?type=voice&lat=46.54368431419556&lo- n=-87.39346296453635&sci=9

stever

Yeah, coverage is real spotty. Not really an issue for me, since about the only time I use the phone is when we're traveling in the car. Around the house, we have a land line and Skype does pretty good on my 15 MB connection for long distance for $3 a month.

Now, if I had an iPhone or smartphone, I'd be hurting.

Oh, borrowed a Tracfone for a trip to Taos one Thanksgiving and when I needed it, no coverage. Another big empty spot down there - our off-grid friends 20 miles from town manage okay with a booster antenna on their roof and even better, have line of site wifi coverage that's pretty good.

ateixeira

Good or bad, please share...

I'm looking at one of the new 7" models for my van, the ones that have an A/V input so I can also mount a backup cam.

Magellan Roadmate 1700 has no bluetooth, so I'm leaning towards the 9055LM, which is basically loaded (traffic, lifetime maps, bluetooth, A/V input).

Long timers know I've been a Garmin guy but the 7" screen is appealing and Garmin's 7" models don't have a battery at all.

The 9055 with lifetime maps is on sale at Crutchfield for $250, and Magellan's backup cam lists for $200, so $450 for the package. The catch? I can't find that backup cam for sale any where. Tried Amazon, Google, Crutchfield, Best Buy, Tiger GPS, etc.

I like the Magellan cam because the receiver mounts right on the GPS mount, so you don't even see it.

Any experience with Magellan? Backup cams? Installation?

gagrice

I have the Magellan Roadmate 1700. I like it fine, except, it is hard to mount in a vehicle. It is pretty large. It is a heck of a lot better than the NAV in my Sequoia. The 7" screen is nice. The voice directions are good. My wife usually lays it on her lap and does the navigation. I think I want more than any GPS has to offer. Like gas prices and up to date restaurant info. I may have to get online with Verizon and a tablet. I am going to research the Samsung 10.1 Galaxy tablet. I understand it has stand alone GPS. So if you lose your cell signal you still have navigation. I want it ALL in one package.

ateixeira

So yours also has the A/V input, and you could add the same backup cam to yours.

The catch is I still can't even find it for sale. Must be supplied to pro installers only?

How do you like the 1700's navigation? Easy enough? Is it fairly up to date? How does it compare to other brands you've tried?

stever

Starting Sunday, you can get OnStar on any vehicle. Turn by turn nav, Automatic Crash Response and hands free phone.

So, find someone with OnStar and push the button and see if they have current gas prices.

$300 for the unit plus installation and $19 a month.

OnStar Expands Beyond GM Cars

gagrice

Yes it does have the A/V input. Never paid any attention to that. My experience is limited to this and the NAV in the Sequoia. I cannot see anything the Sequoia does as well as the Magellan. Except it looks nice in the dash. I would also suggest the plug-in charger as the battery does not last very long. I got the charger so I could try and update from their website via the USB port. Says no updates available.

We used the Roadmate extensively in KY & IN looking for property. I don't know if it is the roads back there or the data base. The addresses we had from Zillow search did not match the actual roads. And sometimes the Magellan showed road names different than the signs. It always got us back to the hotel fine. Even when I would go wandering far off the main roads. I really like it for that feature alone.

gagrice

That is interesting. Has anyone here used Onstar? I had it in my 2005 GMC PU and never activated it. I think there was a year free. Does it act as a NAV or just for emergencies?

stever

It's turn by turn navigation. The short experience I had with it as a back seat passenger was that you had to hit the button and talk to a real person to get your destination into the system. I'd rather just hit Favorites or type in an address (but I usually know that ahead of time - real time help could be an advantage).

Can't remember if there was a screen to follow along with.

ateixeira

Yeah, I don't think the Sequoia got Toyota's better of their 2 systems and that was back then. The Sienna forum guys told me to avoid Navi for that reason (same as yours), and get the JBL sound and then buy the Navi from the Solara, which was better. I didn't get the JBL option so I went with a portable GPS.

I'm getting cold feet - don't like the idea of tapping in to the reverse light for the backup cam, and I can't find the Magellan wireless backup cam anyway.

I think I will wait until either prices drop or I can find someone who already did it and can share advice.

ateixeira

OK, giving it one more shot .... I e-mailed Crutchfield tech support to ask if they offer Magellan's backup camera.

I don't see why they would carry the RoadMate 9055 and not Magellan's own accessory for it. Especially given Crutchfield is for DIYers like me.

Best part is Crutchfield had the best price I could find on the 9055LM anyway.

Fingers crossed.

PS If I get it I will document the install with pics

stever

With a voice app and a smartphone, it sounds like real potential for finding the cheapest gas nearby without a lot of button pushing since you could voice search Bing or Google.

Full blurb over in this Apps and Maps - Best Downloads for Drivers post. Oh, just skip to the source article on Straightline if you want.

ateixeira

Crutchfield said "No" to carrying the Magellan backup cam. Disappointment and a stalled DIY project is the result!

ateixeira

OK, so now the Magellan web site lets you order the backup cam directly, and the best part is they lowered the asking price from $200 to $150. On top of that, when you register a new product, you get a 10% off coupon, so I actually only paid $135. $7 for shipping. Score

For the device itself, I got the Magellan RoadMate 9055-LM. That is basically their flagship - it has Bluetooth, Text-to-speed, lane assist, lifetime map updates, traffic, etc. Plus it's the huge 7" screen.

Amazon had it for $240, Crutchfield for $250, but I had a ton of Best Buy Rewards, so even though they priced it at $270, I paid $65 after the $205 credits I had. With tax it came out to $68 or so. Score again.

I'll share first impressions in a separate post.

ateixeira

First impression is WOW this thing is big. 7" screen has four times the area of my first GPS, my old Garmin c320, which back then cost me $404. GPS has come a long way.

Good:

* enormous screen
* very quick satellite signal, just seconds the 1st time (vs. minutes for Garmin)
* doesn't say "recalculating" all the time, just changes the next turn quietly
* seems to have more processing power, very quick and responsive
* when entering road names, it highlights characters that could come next
* navigated via a path that I like, so good first impression
* has video input plug for backup cam, even a place to mount the receiver

Bad:

* learning curve for me, since I'm new to Magellan
* can't copy my Favorites from Garmin (but it can import address book from phone)
* seems to zoom in too much, I'd like to see more roads ahead
* so big you have to find room to mount it

I've only used it a little, but so far I seem to prefer Garmin's interface (though I'm used to it) but the processing power of this Magellan.

Gary: what's the difference between a One-Touch and a Favorite? Do they have 2 lists of addresses?

Wasn't able to test the traffic feature because there wasn't any traffic this morning. Figures, when I want traffic, for the first time ever there wasn't any.

Paired my phone with Bluetooth on the first try. Asked if I want to import my Address Book, I dunno since most of my phone entries have no address. Will it import those too? If so I'll have to delete tons of them, not worth it.

Sound quality and the voice are on par with Garmin, no preference.

So far, so good. I see no reason to return it, at least not yet.

ateixeira

Looked again at my address book, noticed it mostly has just phone numbers, so I didn't import it.

I entered the most common ones manually, which was easy. Nice thing is it seems to remember cities you've used. After entering one Potomac, MD address, I only had to type the "P" and it guessed Potomac. For Silver Spring it needed just "SI". So good predictive software.

Custom-made a nice mount for it, too. I don't like windshield suction cups, so I carefully removed the trim around the radio and looked for a solid place to mount brackets I made from some aluminum sheets I had lying around.

Now it looks built-in, but I can remove everything and return it to a stock appearance, just in case.

The backup cam has not arrived yet.

When I'm all done, I may make a YouTube vid to show it off. :shades:

gagrice

I only had to type the "P" and it guessed Potomac. For Silver Spring it needed just "SI". So good predictive software.

I really like that feature of the Magellan Roadmate. As far as your previous question. I don't know. Have not played with it that much. It is too big to mount on the dash. So my wife holds it in her lap and keys in the addresses etc. We used it the most last year on our trip to Indiana. Tracking down farms I wanted to see. Did not find what I wanted. It did not always find the address, but always got us back to town from some way off the beaten path roads. Even the gravel country roads. The names did not always match.

ateixeira

Yeah, farms don't always show up, my buddy's farm in WV doesn't even *have* an address. I use GPS coordinates! LOL

Let me try to upload pics. IIRC you don't like suction cup mounts, and I feel the same way, which is why I built the brackets.

ateixeira

Magellan GPS

gagrice

Says oops nothing to see your you don't have access.

ateixeira

Maybe you have to register with Picasa? Do you have a gmail account?

Try this (long) URL:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=coachjuiceman&target=ALBUM&id=56374- 61347816241681&authkey=Gv1sRgCMXhlO6P09byFA&feat=email

gagrice

I see a bunch of photos for AJ. The newest is from February.

ateixeira

Fixed access rights, try this link:

Magellan GPS

Some comments on the Magellan after a 3 hour road trip:

I'm still not used to the Address Book vs. the Favorites you get on Garmins. I'm getting there, though. They are sorted alphabetically, I think sorting by proximity like Garmin makes more sense. Can you change that?

Some steps are not intuitive - for instance you click the right arrow to navigate to an address book entry. There is an arrow that points up and right on the left, but that's not the right one to click, even though when you cancel navigation, you click that same icon with a red line through it! Inconsistent, to say the least. Call it a quirk.

Detours worked like a charm, in fact I found a new short-cut if I see traffic in the future.

At speed, I feel like it needs to zoom out more. There's a huge screen, it should use it. I can hit the "-" button twice to zoom out, then it's perfect. I just wish it would default to a less zommed in view.

Still think it processes more quickly than my Nuvi 1490T, and also recalculates more quickly, and even finds a satellite signal sooner.

So far, Garmin wins on interface but Magellan wins on power/speed.

ateixeira

One minor change I made - I raised it a bit from the position in that pic, so it's not blocking the CD player.

Then I triangulated it by adding a very small self-adhesive piece of velcro to the bottom of the mount and to the plastic trim above the radio. That triangulation makes the mount MUCH more rigid, so it doesn't shake back and forth.

Works quite well so that position should be set.

ateixeira

Magellan GPS

Added 2 pics, one showing a sample of what you'd see backing up, one of the actual image you see on the GPS screen. Photos is a grainy cell phone pic - I should use a real camera because it looks a lot better than that.

You can actually see the bumper if you adjust the camera pointing down. I have it one click past, you can easily see the squeegee that is one foot behind my bumper. The trash cans are about 3 feet back, and you can also see those.

No wires had to be spliced, instead they provide a tap that you just squeeze on to the existing wire.

The camera itself mounts on the rear license plate. A small wire goes up and in behind some trim on my Sienna, where I drilled a hole about 3/8" big. The sending unit mounts inside, with 2 wires - one to a ground, another tapped to the red/black wire for the backup light. That way the camera turns on automatically when you put it in reverse.

The Magellan system is wireless, so it comes with a small receiver that fits on the back of the GPS itself. The mount even has a slot for it, though I used velcro because my home-made mount got in the way.

I tucked the wires behind some trim, so you basically don't see any wires at all above knee level, very stealth. I should take more (and higher quality) photos to show this better, but I'm lovin' the results.

Not for the novice, but anyone with decent handyman skills and patience can do it. Took me about 2 hours. I basically used this web site as a guide (specific to 2004-2010 Siennas):

http://www.edgewoodexpress.com/vr3backupcamerainstall/

ateixeira

Sorry for the delay, found some time and daylight and made a much better video demo.

I'm quite happy with the results:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4EWHtFe50Y

2007 Toyota Sienna LE
Magellan RoadMate 9055-LM
Magellan Wireless Backup Cam

7" nav screen with backup cam function installed myself, total cost about $400. OEM Nav cost was $2200 on this model, and Gary will testify that it stinks! And I got lifetime map updates included, plus the GPS has integrated traffic, bluetooth, text-to-speech, etc. It's the flagship GPS for Magellan right now, basically just like the 1700 model Gary has but with BT and traffic.

Follow-up video demo of the custom bracket mount I made myself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcLtA5S3QeU

gagrice

That looks good. I must now be able to see all your pics. I just got a notice from Magellan that they have a map update. $49.95 if I buy it now. I am not sure I need it. As my 1700 does not have things missing like the Sequoia. I wish I could get an updated DVD for the Toyota NAV for $49.95.

I am still thinking about some sort of netbook or tablet with Verizon 4G to get my directions and POI. I just hate paying for a cellphone service that I only use occasionally.

ateixeira

What does Toyota charge? Probably $200 something?

Heck, that's the cost of a whole new portable unit!

I just installed the v43 of the maps 2 nights ago. I haven't used it a whole lot yet, so I can't say if it's much better or not.

It was able to find more POIs on my drive on the Eastern Shore, my Garmin still doesn't have the Bridgeville McDonalds decades after it opened, the Magellan does.

The Magellan did make an odd mistake, though. I was going east on Rt. 50 towards the beach, and needed to turn right on to Stephan Decatur highway. It told me to go straight, to a U-turn, then turn left on the same road, which is absurd.

I went on-line and complained to the map source folks, but I wonder if it was an anomaly or if it actually recognized that I was in the left lane (no turns). So hopefully they at least look in to that and fix it in a future update.

Mr_Shiftright

Never do exactly what your GPS tells you to do without checking the real world first, is my advice. Whenever mine says "make a left on X st., the first thing I do is look for the NO LEFT TURN sign.

imidazol97

I had something similar happen a couple years back with my TomTom in Michigan. They do U-turns away from the lights, take you back and then a right turn onto a road going parallel to the one you wanted and then a right turn over a half-mile followed by a left turn on the road where I actually wanted to be on needing a left turn at the light.

I later was reading about red-lights and flashing red and flashing cautions that they use in Michigan as a new system for left turn control that they actually avoid left turns at some busy intersections.

ateixeira

Oh don't worry - I didn't. I felt it was odd that it wasn't telling me to turn Right, so I looked to see what next steps it wanted me to take, then I saw the U-turn.

I turned right, of course, and it quietly recalculated. I think I heard a whisper of an apology.

ateixeira

And guess what? Tom Tom uses the same map supplier!

A-Ha moment.

Mr_Shiftright

GPS is smart like a machine or robot or a squirrel is smart---they are not smart like a human brain is smart.

ateixeira

Correct, they follow only programmed algorithms and use stored data.

On top of that, I believe the Magellans are Windows CE based, so let's blame Bill Gates for any issues that creep up.

gagrice

What does Toyota charge? Probably $200 something?

When they replaced my NAV I asked, and it was $495 for the newer by 3 years DVD. My 2007 Sequoia has a DVD dated 2005. The DVD being sold in 2009 was dated 2008. I will probably just carry my Magellan as it has much better voice directions. It will say turn on and name the street. The Toyota unit just says turn right or left at the next intersection. OEM NAVs are the most overpriced waste of money accessory being sold today. The vehicles I am interested in all have them already added into the price. So not sure what that figure is. I do like the BMW GPS with it's up to the minute information. Also Internet access.

ateixeira

Was it the thieves at Bob Barker Baker? Yikes. Bet you could shop that and get it down to $2 something.

OEMs are slowly getting better, and often cheaper. It was $2200 on the Sienna (no thanks) but you can get it on a Cruze for $995 now.

In some cases, where the car already has the screen (read: Ford), adding Navi costs much less.

gagrice

It was actually a Toyota repair only place in Santee. It is a subsidiary of El Cajon Toyota. It is right across the street from that crook Baker. No connection. Baker does have a Toyota store elsewhere in San Diego. When I first bought the Sequoia, I complained to Poway Toyota where I bought it. There suggestion was buying a new DVD which they had in stock for that same $495. It was also the same 2005 copyright date. It is proprietary making it difficult to get updates. There could be some black market ones out there. I should look.

ateixeira

OEMs are being greedy, but it could bite them in the back. Customers will flock to PNDs if they have bad experience getting those updates. They're making a big mistake, too, because this could be a cash cow if they don't squeeze customers too badly.

I think it updates should be offered yearly for, say, $99. People would pay it without questioning it at all.

Portables would still be cheaper, at $89 or less for a lifte time worth of quarterly updates, but that's too frequeunt for cars. Plus you have to add the cost of the DVD itself.

gagrice

The other fault I have with the OEM is on a cross country trip you have to keep changing regions. If you cross into another region unknowingly and try to find a POI it gives you only POI in the region that is loaded. I was looking for gas somewhere around OK and not getting any for the town we were in. Then it dawned on me we were in the next region. I would hope the newer OEMs will use USB to get the newest versions. The other thing you have to keep the DVD in the unit for it to work. Which I guess you cannot watch a DVD movie while driving anyway. Mine has a separate DVD for the rear seats. Only tested it when new. Another waste of money for us.

ateixeira

Agreed, they should move away from DVDs. Too many moving parts. Switch instead to solid state, like you suggest. Could be a simple SD card swap.

They should try to get it to a point where it's swapped at each oil change. They could charge a subscription or something, and keep it up to date like the portables do, quarterly.

gagrice

They should try to get it to a point where it's swapped at each oil change.

The technology is there and available to just update from the Internet via bluetooth and your smart phone. Having the OEM as capable as the current smartphones would be a great improvement. I think they prefer the complexity to keep the prices up. All other electronics have come down in price. Why not those associated with our automobiles?

ateixeira

They do have to better link to smart phones, they could get updated POIs as well. I think the OEMs are greedy and want subscriptions, but that's downright silly as most people already paid for their smart phone, so why pay again?

Pretty soon we'll have an internet bill at home, in each car, and a smart phone bill. They're milking customers like cows.

My tablet tethers to my BlackBerry, so just one bill. I want my car tech to do the same - use a service I've already paid for.

robr2

juice - my new Explorer has the nav on an SD card. No idea what the updates will cost.

We got the nav even thought we have a portable but this car was in stock. I do like the voice control though.