BMW 1-Series

blueguydotcom

I'm not digging the idea of a wagon...to suburban mom mobile for my raised in the 70s & 80s behind.

Also, is it just me or do these images look Pshopped? The car doesn't seem to really occupy that space. One second it's moving by the same building it's photographed parked near?

Interested in what the convertible and 4 doors look like...

307web

Yes. The car cover looks super fake!

backy

If it weren't for the vertical bar in the grille, the front end reminds me a lot of the '04 Elantra. With Maybach copying the front-end styling of the XG350, maybe this is a trend? ;-)

creakid1

looks Opel-ish -- pretty boring.

ateixeira

Yes, very Opel Signum, IIRC? That's the euro version of the Chevy Malibu Maxx.

-juice

creakid1

blueguydotcom

While not in love with the look, check out those wheel wells. I don't know of any other current car that has such sculpted wheel wells. Get some 18s in there like my ZHP's and it'd fill the wells better than my current car.

Then again it's still a station wagon and that's why I'd love a peak at the 4 door or convertible. Station wagon = soccer moms of 20 years ago.

307web

Why are you worried about wagons and soccer moms?
I thought only sedans are going to the US.

neomonkey

Is the 1 series going to be made available in Canada?

blueguydotcom

I've not read anything directly confirming what's coming here. I've heard rumors of no 4 door and only a 5 door - ie a soccer mom mobile.

creakid1

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=44427

sunilb

I'm really liking the size of this car, but:

1- I hope they don't screw up the interior (I'm not a fan of the X3, Z4 and to a lesser extent the new 5 interior); and

2- if we get the 5-door (which I don't mind; like the versatility), those rear doors look ridiculously small! I say it's better not to have them at that point.

307web

There is an article online that says there will be no hatchbacks sent to the US (likey due to failure of the 318ti and C class sport "coupe"). Expect a 4 door sedan.

ateixeira

Nah, soccer moms drove wagons in the 80s, minvans in the 90s, and SUVs today. Go to a soccer field - more than half the vehicles in the parking lot today are SUVs.

SMG on the flagships, yuck. What's wrong with regular MTs?

-juice

blueguydotcom

I don't care what they drive today. I see a wagon and I think of those ghastly station wagons from the 1970s and 80s.

BTW, in my eyes an SUV is nothing more than a station wagon with a lift kit. SUVs just seems so matronly to me.

ateixeira

The station wagon has changed - dramatically.

Those old wagons had live axles, RWD, and gas hogging V8s.

Come to think of it, that's what many new SUVs are now! You have a point!

But look at modern wagons, like the WRX wagon, the E-class wagon, the Audi S6 Avant, the V70R, not much to complain about there.

-juice

307web

Well, not everyone likes every car. I'm not worried about 80's soccer moms if I see the car in person and like it.
It sounds like he has personal issues with wagons for whatever reason. I don't think it's even long enough behind the rear doors to be considered a real wagon. More of a 5-door hatchback.
We can move on.

creakid1

"I don't think it's even long enough behind the rear doors to be considered a real wagon."

Is the Kia Rio Wagon a real wagon? ;-) Some short-deck cars just love to claim to be wagons.

Like the Z-3 hatch, the 1-series sure is long enough to look like the 2-dr Vega & Pinto wagons.

creakid1

not because of their past history.

But fastback hatches have structural problems. That's why the new Z needs another "hidden rear deck" that defeats the purpose of a hatchback. So that's why the Protege5/Mazda3 hatch became wagons & is no longer like the sleek-looking foreign-market pre-'99 323 5-dr fastback hatch, while the new Mazda3 sedan had to take over the previous hatch's styling instead in order to satisfy the fastback customers.

ateixeira

I'd call it a hatch. The roof has to extend behind the rear axle for me to call it a wagon.

I remember reading that the BMW 3 series wagon is actually more stiff than the sedan, though it does weigh more. Properly executed the body style can be very solid.

-juice

creakid1

The wagon can be stiff, but the fastback hatch can't. Have you noticed the rear-speaker deck of your sedan is always made of metal?

ateixeira

I don't know if you can single out the design like that. The Porsche 911 is stiff and it's a fastback. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples.

-juice

blueguydotcom

But look at modern wagons, like the WRX wagon, the E-class wagon, the Audi S6 Avant, the V70R, not much to complain about there.

Except that they're dowdy station wagons.

jchan2

version would be nice for versatility. (especially the five door model)

ateixeira

The Audi Avants in particular are not too dowdy, they're downright handsome.

When the kids in SUVs grow up, they're going to call SUVs "dowdy". It's a trend, I mean, look at them, most are just 2 box shapes, hardly stylish.

-juice

creakid1

"I mean, look at them, most are just 2 box shapes, hardly stylish."

just like the yellow school bus we had for decades -- big wagon/SUV w/ extended wheelbase?

ateixeira

IIRC GM was considering a SIX door Suburban. Remember that?

-juice

blueguydotcom

Wrong guy, man. I think SUVs look like station wagons. They scream domesticated and moribund.

creakid1

the Jeep Wagoneer?

307web

I thought there was going to be more talk specifically about the BMW 1-Series instead of endless fixation on personal issues with wagons in general.

blueguydotcom

Otherwise we're filling time until something noteworthy pops up about the 1.

theo2709

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/25231

creakid1

"I don't know if you can single out the design like that. The Porsche 911 is stiff and it's a fastback. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples."

I said, "The wagon can be stiff, but the fastback hatch can't."

The fastback on the 911 does not hatches from down there to haul cargo & has a cross-structure engine-fire-wall bridging the rear wheel wells.

Kirstie_H

307web, it's kind of difficult to stay totally on-track when not a heck of a lot of info is available, but we'll try to keep it at least BMW-focused.

blueguydotcom

Do you think they'll add a mid-level character line to the 1 series coupe? It desperately needs something to break up those massive slab sides. One line running placed at about an inch or so below the top of the wheel wells would break up the planes perfectly. As it stands now that's just too much flat metal.

ateixeira

Well, the hatch ain't pretty.

I actually think the wagon in the 4th pic looks better than the hatch. Doesn't look so stubby.

The convertible looks too Kia.

-juice

blueguydotcom

The fourth one is the steel blue 3/4 rear view right? That's the one everyone in the office gave a thumbs up to.

jchan2

looks beautiful.

creakid1

The 2 coupe is like a RWD Prelude - short rear leg room w/ a nice wide rear glass located almost as far forward as a p/u truck.

By the way, that picture is also in the April R&T, I think.

ateixeira

The shorter 5 door reminds me a little of the Mazda3. But it's taller, almost like an Echo is, stretched upward. Not exactly cars you want to try to recall when you think BMW.

The steel blue wagon is longer and has better proportions. I see more resemblance to the X3 with the D pillar like that. Nice color paint, too.

-juice

jchan2

looks the best of the bunch, at least to my eyes.

creakid1

not "Vectra" posted on #163.

harlequin1971

maybe we had something to do with this?

I have to think that BMW is not willing to damage their image in the US with another version of the 318ti, a car I owned and enjoyed but was not well-received.

Honestly, with the c230 cranking at 200 hp, a sub 180hp BMW at the same dollars would be a waste of time in the power hungry states. While the comparisons are tough to make, paying 7-8k more for a fancy 1-series only to be smoked by Focus SVT and Neon SRT4s is a bad way to go about your business.

creakid1

BMW is not about just power, but rather it's finesse, ride/handling compromise, etc.

Any V6 Altima can smoke the 325i in a straight line.

ateixeira

True, but the 1 series hatch looks tall and kinda dorky to be honest. The 3 series is squat and sporty looking.

They have to make the 1 series sedan look more sleek. Right now it looks like a Toyota Echo, by that I mean tall and stubby.

-juice

jrct9454

...is that the car will not be imported AT ALL until the 2-coupe is available, which implies no earlier than 2006. They also speculate that the engine will be the new 2.2 6cyl [estimating 180 hp], which also will be the base engine for the next-gen 3er.

I must be the only one who feels this way, but I was looking forward to a 5-door hatch in this car. This apparently isn't going to happen, as noted in one of the posts above, precisely because BMW has trapped themselves in the US market with the "image" they have chosen for the brand here. Everywhere else in the world, they are a full-line maker with a "sporting" bias - here they have positioned themselves as some sort of holy grail. Having owned four of them, including one of the first 1600-2s on the West Coast in 1967, I find this marketing direction misplaced, and more than a little silly. But from the comments on this board, it sounds like they've managed to convince everybody that this is who they are. Anyway, I wanted a small rear-drive car with good ride and handling, no more than $25k, and real utility in space utilization. Looks like the latter requirement is too much for them to manage in this market...

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=08700284

kyfdx

Exactly what car would fit those requirements?
Small
Good ride and handling
rear wheel drive
real space utility
under $25K

I can't think of one.. So, expecting BMW to be the first, and at a low price point is not really realistic, IMHO.

regards,
kyfdx

ateixeira

If you allow AWD the WRX might sneak on to that list. But the interior isn't up to BMW standards by any means.

Then again, the 1 series might change that.

-juice

kyfdx

I almost mentioned the WRX, but I knew you would do that for me. LOL

I wasn't sure I was correct, that there weren't any, but the more I think about it.... Can you come up with any?

regards,
kyfdx

qbrozen

you might be able to get a C230 for less than $25K, but the sticker starts at around $26K. So I'm not sure it counts. depends on how you look at it.