BMW 1-Series

Kirstie_H

How will the new entry level 1-Series fare in the US?

idletask

I've read various articles on this car already... BMW won't detract from its reputation and the 1 series will be RWD. Makes me wonder about rear *-room! It's already not formidable in the 3 series...

Also, a M version will be available, rumored to be a turbocharged 2.0l outputting 240 hp. Hmm. The 1 series will also bring an end to the current 3 hatch (which is BTW worlds better than its predecessor).

kradue

I haven't been following the 1-series, so besides what Edmunds has listed under their "future vehicles" section what else is known about the 1-series?

There aren't many RWD cars out there for less than $30k decently equipped (two roadsters (Miata, MR2) come to mind, but 3-series, IS300, C-class would have to be stripped) that I'm aware of (am I missing some? Hmm, I guess domestic muscle cars, but I'm not interested in any domestics). It seems like BMW would have this market to themselves.

I'm more interested in a modestly priced fun-to-drive car than a luxury car, which this would be if it was in the low $20's. I'm sure some won't view the 1-series as a "real BMW" (similar to how some claim the C-class isn't a "real MB"), but I've always thought their priority has been sporty cars first, luxury second.

seivwrig

I think the buy will fall into two catagories: Poseurs and enthusiasts. The poseurs are gonna want a BMW because of the badge. The enthusiasts will look at the 1-series as a 2002 re-incarnate. The C-class is very much a M-B especially when you consider the models sold in Europe. Because of the limited model of M-B sold in the U.S., we have a higher standard of M-B as a luxury car maker. Whereas in Europe, though more expensive then Fiat or other Japanese models, M-B, Audi and BMW do sell small cars with plenty of 4-cylinder engines and diesels.
The 1-series should be cute pending that Bangle does not give the car some strange headlight and taillight treatment.

harlequin1971

will have to be better than the Jetta (not looking like a tough job ATM with VW reliability issues) and be more dynamic than the Volvo 40-series. The 40 will be redesigned, the Jetta is due, the Golf is hitting around 05 as well, and the Subie WRX is grabbing most of the real enthusiasts in the low 20's

Price will be the big indicator here. Price must be decent, or it risks facing off against a stripper G35 (RWD) and some of the new hot cars on the market. BMW will always draw attention, my little 318ti always elicits a comment or two when a person sees it for the first time. SO they will sell some, but if they want to "steal" the young crowd over...they better give them something that won't be embarrassed by the Focus SVT, MazdaSpeed Proteges, and Sentra Spec Vs of the world.

If they can give us 160-165 BMW-thoroughbred HP in the car with their typical hammer-on-nail trannies, it will smoke most cars...including that new Accord disguised as an Acura. I guess that will be a bench mark of sorts...how well does it compete in the goodies and performance with the likes of the suped econo cars and the low tier lux cars.

I can't wait to see it...but I will be watching rather than playing at this point. Made my sensible-shoes purchase that will be my ride for at least the next five years.

Anyone interested in a nice '95 318ti? Just kidding.

harlequin1971

At this point, I guess I would believe that BMW does NOT plan to ship a 1-series to the US, at least not right away.

They have done nothing to promote its advance arrival. The CS1 was a taste, but BMW has been very tight lipped about the 1-series.

Maybe they are waiting to see how the market is responding before they make a final decision. The Mini has been very well received but seems to be getting nailed with poor reliability so far.

Can BMW afford to release a 1-series in the US and have it be a reliability issue? How would a so-so 1-series affect the image of the 3-series and maybe even the 5-series in the US consumer mind?

I hope they do bring it here. I find it aggrevating that Euro-manufacturers do not send their line-up to the US. Audi holds back its A3, VW holds back the Lupo (?) and all manufacturers hold back certain engine types. After very slow sales, BMW withdrew their ti-compacts, and then released a I6 model that I think would have done fairly well in the US...

When they redesigned the TIs, they fixed most of the complaints that the US market seemed to have. Then they didn't even bring it over.

harlequin1971

I think GM did us all a disservice when it broke up the GM family into murky "class" designations.

Buick serves the older, build-it-like-I-remember-it crowd.

Oldsmobile is the fancy, wish-I-could-afford-a-Cadillac crowd.

Chevy is the econo-buyer designate.

Pontiac is the boy-racer division.

and Cadillac is the luxury division.

Each group has a car that crosses some boundaries, but all the divisions offer cars that appeal to separate segments of the car buying public, rarely is a guy cross-shopping a Buick and a Chevy or Pontiac.

I think that is why BMW and Mercedes have some trouble bringing their full-range of products to the US. We grew up with a notion that brand identity had to apply to every car within a certain line.

Porsche could make a really nice I-4 sedan that handled like few sedans in the world, offer a flat-6 option and price it in the high 20s to mid-30s. But purists would be up in arms about a "fouled" brand.

Mercedes, when they decided to move even further up-market, decided to create Maibach to market their new "ultra-suede" cars, rather than leave it good with MB.

Maybe BMW needs to create a down market division to sell its more economy minded cars in the US and abroad?

creakid1

"At this point, I guess I would believe that BMW does NOT plan to ship a 1-series to the US, at least not right away."

I guess they don't have to, at least the 4-dr:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?news/ae_news_story.php?id=36535

creakid1

"When they redesigned the TIs, they fixed most of the complaints that the US market seemed to have. Then they didn't even bring it over."

Gosh, that 2nd Compact sure is ugly, especially how cute the C-class hatch showed up. No wonder BMW gave up.

creakid1

Too bad, my favorite - 4-dr 1-series - is not imported von Deutchland.

Good thing the M1(?) got normally aspirated 2.4 4-cyl. No turbo or Kompressor.

The E46 not just lost some steering feel from the old E36, but also lost the wide rear view for lane-change visibility, especially the 4-dr.

Hatches got narrower rear view, so my only hope is the notch, but maybe I have to go for the coupe in order to get a German made. & who knows if those less than 4 doors will get mandatory sport suspension like the current 3-series.

Do you know that the current 3-series Compact can't absorb bumps as well as the WRX, per Top Gear 11-02.

So the new 1 & next 3 will get the good-communication steering back. That means the new A3/Golf/Jetta can't compete due to still lacking steering feedback even when compare to the current 3-series Compact. Only the new Focus family - Mazda3/Volvo S40/Focus II can, along w/ the RX-8, which got less stretch-out interior room than the current 3-series sedan.

VW/Audi just wasted another generation:

dudleyr "2005 Audi A3 5 door" Apr 12, 2003 11:20pm

& read #3,7,9

creakid1

Was the 1-series originally planned as a fwd Focus twin?

mdaffron "Mazda3" May 7, 2003 2:22pm

& read #265,268

nyccarguy

Magazine has an article with a photo of the upcoming 1 series. It says is due out in 2004. I guess we won't have to wait that long.

nyccarguy

I guess they'll give us the 1.9L (almost 2.0L) DOHC Valvetronic I4 as a 118i (?) and the 2.2L DOHC 24 Valve I6 as the 120i (?). I can't seem to find any horsepower/torque #s for the 4 cylinder engine (last Z3 1.9 was 138 or 140 hp), but the 2.2L I6 should produce some entertaining driving with 168hp @ 6100RPM & 155 lb/ft torque @ 3500RPM.

creakid1

They might need to reserve it for the pricier new 3-series, which shares the same platform but wider by 6".

The British link I posted on #8 did mention about the M version w/ 2.4, but didn't say if it's a 6-cyl. It makes me wonder if they're trying to re-live the spirit of the original 4-cyl(light nose) M3 or even the "vintage" 2002.

jdemes

Series 1- Yuck!!!!!!! Dont bother sending it to the US.
Series 7- what happened to what was a beautiful car?
Series 5- damn if they didnt take all the new ugly from the 7 and put it on the 5!
Series 3- someone stop them before they ruin it too!

What happened to the designers that once produced some of the worlds most beautiful and stylistic cars? Was it retirement time?

Here is a line that clearly explains the new styling cues at BMW---
Their vehicles have wonderful personalities.

harlequin1971

Lemme see:

Cadillac's hard edge designs...Origami made easy.
Nissan's space age designs...world's fair rejects from the early 1930s.
Ford's Flame-Edge designs...look out, your ovoid Taurus is on fire! (At least they gave up early)

As for some of the folks getting it right:
Hyundai's Derivative Design Works - Is that the new Tiburon? Why does it look so familiar? Ah, a Mustang mated with a Ferrari...to bad the engines are so pedestrian. That new Elantra GT sure does look like a Saab 9-3. And the Sonata, a poor man's Jaguar X-type.

Mazda's Zoom-Designs - The RX-8, the new 6, the Miata, the Protege, the upcoming 3...pedestrian meets curves and the ugly duckling goes goes to prom.

Chrysler's Mercedes-inspired Retro-Americana - hit after hit in the market keeps this company afloat on the relevance meter of car designs. Upcoming Crossfire is a good looking attempt.

All in all, I don't think Bangle is all that bad. The cars look sharp with all those edges, very upscale Nissan.

BMW just wanted to make cars that everyone else wouldn't be scrabbling to rip off. Ever notice how the body cladding and fascias makes a Civic Coupe look similar to a BMW 3-series?

harlequin1971

has the 1-series coming with a 110 hp engine, with a 138 hp engine as the upgrade...does this sound wrong to you? Sure sounds wrong to me...especially at a price $2-4k over a Jetta 1.8T GLS.

If faced with a $3k savings for the Jetta with 180hp Turbo 4 and a similar package of goodies, why would I buy a 110 hp BMW?

The newest Motor Trend puts some fear and doubt into my heart with their projections on the 1-series. Guess it might be time to track the upcoming Saab 9-2 WRX knock-off instead.

Same price range as 1-series with 165-225 hp and AWD...suddenly the 1-series looks a little redundant. Isn't the criticisms of the low powered Mini enough to inspire BMW to bring us the heat?

jchan2

This is going to get interesting. I read in Motor Trend that the Mercedes Benz A-Class is coming. Will that be a 1-Series or an A-Class, sire?

wsag26

I heard that BMW is trying to make vehicles compatible with the VW Golf??? They are doing it with there new accquired MINI, competing head 2 head with the Bettle, VW is doing it with the Phaeton competing head to head with the BMW7 and Vw, once again is competing with the new Touraeg.

Does this hint something? Is BMW trying to copy VW which is trying to copy BMW? For a second there, I thought that unbelievable. I have always thought of VW vehicles as the cheapest German vehicles to get in America. But now, are they suddenly getting more expensive. I mean, are we gonna have new car buyers getting big rebates on there new BMW? I hope not. I hope BMW isn't turning into an image it isn't

I will stop looking at em' if they do that.
I HOPE SOMEONE AGREES FOR ME...
I mean, isn't that what the Big Three does??????(no offense, but they do do get big rebates)\

Hope not. Motor Trend Magazine says that not only the hatchback, but a convertible, and sedan should be included too.
Please, BMw don't do this. Your future will then look too blurry to decide where your performance machines arrive.

creakid1

VW had already pushed Porsche to churn out a RWD compact to compete w/ the RWD 1-series. There's nothing like a RWD w/ limited-slip differential for power-oversteer drift at safe low g-force. Take the Miata, for example.

Even for AWD, BMW is the only one I heard coming up w/ power, rather than braking, induced under & over steer adjustment in the ESP program. Just imagine when set at semi position, the AWD BMW can still dance its tail safely.

VW/Audi is still continuing w/ numb steering these days, even the Phaeton, which hasn't arrived at our shore yet, will end production soon due to its other incompetence such as mediocre ride & handling.

In case you don't know how precious & expensive a light-weight version of the M3 is. The 1-series is the compact light-weight version of the future E90 3-series, which is suppose to be a much better driver's car than the current E46 & much like the old E36.

BMW is even too scared to allow the 6-cyl option in the 1-series, as the car might steal too much sales from other BMWs.

I think the Bangle cars are unattractive, but the 1-series got a rather cute front end.

I think a white Mazda6 w/ factory spoilers looks way cool - like a family member of the Lamborghini Contach.

jchan2

Things are going to get interesting. don't forget the Swedes: S40 and 9-2.

sphinx99

I think 1-series coupe vs Mazda RX-8 is going to be a heck of a comparison a couple of years from now.

jchan2

1-Series vs. RX8? Both are totally different cars with totally different missions.

creakid1

let alone the next 3-series.

Let's see, how many 4-seater RWD notch back got ind rear suspension but too small inside to compete w/ the 3-series sedan? Besides the Lexus IS...

harlequin1971

I would argue that it is everything with $3k of its price...and that puts a huge number of cars into the mix.

If MT was right, they pegged the 1-series hitting the shores at MSRP ~$23k. If that and the 110 hp engine are true, RWD will not be enough to make it a serious player in that price range.

One would have to be very dedicated to the BMW world to pick a 110hp RWD car over a field that features cars like the Subaru WRX, VW Passat/Jetta, and even the Acura TSX...among others.

By the time you add in options, you will be creeping up on 350Z and G35 territory...and while they are not BMWs, they are fast cars that are RWD and worth a serious thought.

If Saab makes a splash with their 9-2 release, and Audi drops the A3 into the market, we have a lot of new metal that will be battling for the same groups of buyers...those who refuse to buy an appliance for a car...because at the low 20k range, most people are buying Accords, Camrys, and the like.

harlequin1971

Well...the way I see it, the predicted formula is thin...but I can argue a success for any of the following situations:

BMW keeps the 110hp stock and releases the car under $20k.

BMW keeps the $23k entry point, but offers a 140+ hp engine as the stock choice.

BMW releases the 1-series in Europe and not in the US.

HP isn't the only thing important about a car, and BMW does more with less HP than any car company I know...but...haveing less than half the hp of your competition's offerings around the same price points is suicide in the "SUV - Bigger is Better" culture of the US.

jchan2

200 HP Saab 9-2
180-200 HP Volvo S40
base Acura TSX
Audi A3
Mercedes Benz A-Class

The only real competition size wise and HP wise are both the A3 and the A-Class. The S40 has too huge an advantage HP wise over the 110 HP 1-Series as does the 9-2.

blacktalon

Any more word on the 2-series coupe and roadster that Edmunds mentions?

A BMW M2 with, say, 250 HP for $30K might be intriguing...

jchan2

by 1-Series.

creakid1

the RX-8. I don't remember how roomy the is the 9-2/Impreza's backseat, but the TSX is a tad roomier than the current 3-series, especially headroom.

From the same platform, you need the even-roomier future 3-series to compete w/ the new S40/V50, which already got roomier back seat than the S60. Find the hp of the 5-cyl new S40/V50 too high to compete w/ the 1-series? Take the 4-cyl Mazda version of it - the 3S.

The A3 may be the right size. But A-class? No way! This tippy phone booth? Eventhough it's redesigned, it's probably no smarter than the Smart in terms of clumsiness - Expect a stiff ride to "hopefully" fight off roll over, just like the raised BMW SUV X5, which still tips over!

jchan2

The A-Class could make some ground if it has a high horsepower content that's higher than 110 HP, which by the way, can be beat by even a lowly Kia Spectra! The A3 is the closest competitor to the 1-Series, the TSX, S40, 9-2 are all too large for the 1-Series people.

creakid1

http://edmunds.com/future/2005/bmw/1series/100277802/preview.html- ?tid=edmunds.h..future..3.*

jchan2

I'll pick up my A3 on the way to the stoplight.

sunilb

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=04433375

6 cylinder engines!

jchan2

I thought the reason for pure 4-cylinder was to protect the 325i.

theo2709

The autoweek article also mentions no hatchback for the US market. Edmunds: you have some information updating to do .

npaladin2000

No hatch? And no 4 cylinder engines? Oh come on! Won't drive like a BMW? Sounds like they're only interested in the big $$ again...I thought the 1 series was supposed to COMPETE with the Golf, not be something to step up to from the Golf, and bring BMW handling to the masses or something along those lines (more affordable and all).

Of course, from another message thread, turns out the US might not get the new version of the Golf either, or possibly only the GTI version or something. Why is it that all we seem to get in the states is leftovers, garbage, and high-priced versions that fewer can afford? I was REALLY looking forward to seeing a 4 cyl BMW here, and now this?

jchan2

agreed. We get all the garbage from Europe. We are getting a 4-cylinder, I'm pretty sure. As for the hatch, I have my fingers crossed as Mercedes has announced plans for the next A-Class to be sold in the states.

jchan2

I don't want one. Either A3, 9-2, or 1-Series. Probably the A3 or the 9-2.

npaladin2000

That article said no 4-cyl BMWs and no hatch....

I WANT a hatch! Trunks are a pain!!!

From that linked article:

"Tom Purves, CEO of BMW of North America LLC, said the U.S. market will get only one body style of the 1 Series - not a hatchback - and two engines, most likely six cylinder."

Sounds like they're going to sell an M2 coupe with a trunk and an M2 convertible. That would fit the starting price they gave in the article, namely around $25k.

Anyone want to place bets on the only A-class showing up will be the highest-end performance version? The only model we're getting out of the new VW Golf line is the GTI (and eventually the Jetta/Bora I guess, but no one knows details). The only part of the BMW 1-series we're apparently going to see is the M2.

jchan2

What'll VW do with the current Golf? Sell them along side the all new and improved GTIs? Pull the Golf out of the line up????

trippredmond

I am employed at a bmw center and it is my understanding that this vehicle is for our european friends only and a new 3 series will appear long before a 1 series will grace our shores.

mdmetz

With the 3-series sub-assembly sharing and the fact that they're putting six-cylinders in it for $25K, it's pretty safe to assume that the 1-series will be born on the veldt rather than in the Alps.

Rosslyn's as good a plant as any in Europe, so it won't be a problem. Too bad it's not in Botswana, though, to keep the "B" in BMW.

npaladin2000

Actually yeah, my understanding is that the Golf will disappear from the lineup for a while (possibly permanently?). Sales of it were never wat VW considered to be great anyway...someone probably muttering "Stupid Americans and their trunks" hehe.

$25k will still have the distinction of being the cheapest BMW available here, but probably as an M2. Personally, I was looking forward to a $20k BMW, even if it's only got a 4 in it.

merc1

Where are you all getting this from about the Golf going away?

M

npaladin2000

Hmm, I'm probably not supposed to say, since they have message boards, and it may be against Edmunds guidelines. But if it is then the mods will delete it. It came out of www.vwvortex.com and their Golf5 frquently asked questions thread.

jchan2

the golf is going away and MT reported that the New Beetle will go away too. So we're left with a overpriced Jetta, a overpriced Passat, and the already dead Eurovan. Wow! VW's two car lineup!!!!!! (The Toureg might be pulled too. If VW will pull the Golf, then the slower selling Toureg will cease fire too)

a_l_hubcaps

jchan2-

I doubt VW will pull the Touareg. I happen to think it's an abomination to the VW name, but I also must admit that it seems to be a pretty good abomination :-) I have not seen a negative review anywhere. Furthermore, the Touareg fits with VW's (stupid! stupid!) intent to move upscale.

Who wants to bet that VW will be in big trouble in the US about 2-3 years from now?

-Andrew L

merc1

I have to say I think you guys are really reaching here. I can't see VW pulling the Golf or T-Reg from the U.S, that simply doesn't make sense. The Beetle probably will be cut eventually because they're not sure which way to go in redesigning it. I hardly see VW pulling the Golf because even though it doesn't sell as well as the Jetta they've still brought over every version of the current Golf including the R32 model, which arrives in December. The Eurovan is already gone for 2004, to be replaced by the Microbus next summer. If they do what you all are saying VW will indeed cease to exist in the U.S.....that isn't going to happen.

M

creakid1

One body version, eh! Must be be 2002-like coupe. 2 engines & no 4-cyl. Could that be the Valvetronic of 2.2 & 2.5? Sounds like the compact E36 3-series is back, especially to fill in when the next E90 3-series grows bigger.

npaladin2000

I just don't get why either make feels the need to move upmarket when the enconomy here in the US is the way it is right now. If BMW released a 1 series car at around 20k, then a bunch of people who always dreamed of owning a BMW could finaly do so, and those who are impressed with it would eventually move up to 3 and 5 series cars if/when possible. If the 1-series were to hold its value like other BMWs it would be a good stepping stone as a trade in, too.

Then again, maybe neither one is interested in making affordable cars in the US...just in Europe. Maybe they'd rather send over SUVs that we seem to fall for hook, line and sinker.

I may just move to Europe.