BMW X3

x3r

My X3 was delivered the 2nd of April. Production listed as a March Vehicle. I do not have the alarm system installed (only option I did not order) and my dealer was able to program what I refer to as the "silent alarm deterent" feature. The red clown nose light below the rear view mirror blinks when the vehicle is locked. Lights (front and rear parking and side signals) flash 2 times on unlocking, once on locking. The vehicle did not ship this way and I had to go in to walk them through what I wanted. At first they said it might not be possible without the alarm but they sorted it out. My dealer did not charge for the initial programming session. I believe from a set up staff member who posts on another forum regularly that the issue lies with a software upgrade recently made to the dealer programmer devices that no longer allows them to program in this function. There may be a reversion/update in future software releases for the dealer programmer that would restore a dealer's ability to program these features again but there is no guarantee if or when this might occur.

harplayr

That's interesting. My X3 is also from Fields in Northfield, IL
I took mine in about a month ago, and they "never heard of a creaking problem". Basically the advice was to live with it.

Just wondering if you have a contact name of a service advisor I can get better results with. It is quite possible I mentioned this to them before you did, and they didn't know anything at that point of time, however if they give me the same "never heard of it" line again, I will know they are blowing me off.

My creaking is minor, and even if it isn't resolved, it doesn't bother me too much so I "can" live with it.

new2bmw

x3r, thanks for the information, it really helps. Since the manual says it can be done and both references concern the locking system and are not about the alarm, I have to assume it worked at some time and that BMW inadvertently or purposely changed the programming software for the X3. So I guess the question is do I contact them to see about a fix or get my dealer to go the alarm route like you did. Here is a reference from another group on turning on the alarm with none installed, in 3 series cars, so that the clown nose does something (look at the bottom of this article):

http://www.bmwnation.com/tech/tech_3carkeycfg_01.html

I don’t know how applicable it is as it is 5 years old.

The creaking problem is really beginning to annoy. I experimented with it some yesterday and find that the problems is in all 4 door windows, but not the back (fixed) window. Any window that is up all the way makes the noise and it goes away if you let the window down just a little and does not matter how far the window is down, if it is down at all the problem goes away…..Weird. This seems to discount the door hinge and door seals theories at least in my case and again seems to point to two separate problems with the same symptoms. Any mechanical engineering types have any ideas ?

I will keep everyone informed.

jimbob533

The portion of your post that deals with the creaking describes exactly the situation with my X3 2.5. A thought that I have had was whether the door striker-plate could be re-adjusted to be slightly closer to the body so that when the door is shut, the door seal would be more tightly compressed against the body. Whatever the fix, I hope it is soon. Where's the fun in driving a noisy, creaking rocking chair down the road?

james7

A recent MotorWeek show on a PBS station noted that MotorWeek would provide in its next longterm report its longterm experience with a BMW X3. This notification said that MotorWeek had experienced rattles and creaks with its X3. If this is the case, it is certain that MotorWeek has reported this problem to BMW. Because of this notification (circa June 12, 2004), I intend to watch all MotorWeek shows for the BMW X3 longterm report. The PBS MotorWeek shows contain more information because of commercial-free programing, so I recommend watching the PBS Motorweeks rather than the commerical stations. I currently have 1850 miles on my X3 3.0i (auto and premium package) and have experienced no problems. I love everything about my X3. I have noticed that the "run-flat" tires (Turanza?) tend to ride firmly, which can be attributed to the thick sidewalls of "run-flat" tires. I rather like the firm ride. The X3 has great stability with minimal lean when turning. I enjoy both the sport-shift and the electronic manual modes. I hope BMW will address all the issues raised by this board. I would also like to thank this board for your generous contributions of information.

jimbob533

Are you sure your Bridgestone Turanzas are "run-flat" tires?

Those of us with the creak and rattle issue would like nothing better than to love everything about our X3s. That's why we purchased the vehicle! Unfortunately, we're not able. I will stay tuned to PBS, but would prefer to hear from BMW that there is a "fix."

cville

A few days ago the dealer returned my x3 to me after six days to fix the creaking. He lubed the seals with HLS 2000. So far the creaking is gone, but it has been less than 100 miles. The BAD NEWS is that this stuff he put on is down in the door and every time I put the window down and then up, it smears all over and it WON'T COME OFF. It is a gooey petro based liquid. Honestly, at this point I think I'll need a new door and window. I don't know about the rest of you guys out there with creaking, but my patience is wearing a bit thin.

saugatak

Someone posted that the "fix" was a window module. Has your dealer tried that?

Maybe you should get a new window module along with new door and window to make sure the problem is solved. Good luck.

sheltonmega

I got the creaking the first day I picked up the car. It's minor and even unnoticeable. Is it because the seal rubber is new and sticky.

jimbob533

Because you are not bothered by the creaking, I will assume that have not discussed it with your dealer. I must also assume that your statement is strictly a personal opinion unsupported by fact.

sheltonmega

Yeah, I got that problem. it's a little annoying.
Did he answered?

Thanks a lot!

sheltonmega

lakshman-
I just heard about this linkage from a friend of mine who works for BMW. I plan to ask him more when we have more time to speak but he said the navigation system and radio set up is the same as on the Z4 which means that when you change stations, the monitor comes up. Has that been your experience as well or is it just when you change CD audio tracks? Will let you know if he says there is a way to disable the link between the two.

Yeah, I got that problem. it's a little annoying.
Did he answered?

Thanks a lot!

sheltonmega

Sorry Jimbod,

I was asking," is it because of the seal is new and sticky? "

sheltonmega

new2bmw:

The sales man told me, it has to be programmed to do things like:

Auto lock all doors upon drive away
flash when lock
key memory
...

It's strange that they are not build in for a BMW.

I was told they have a programing session every Saturday 9:00-3:00
I will go and see if they can do it.

Thanks.

tdono

I just bought my X3 2.5 on 19 June 04. I went for the "Plane Jane". The options BMW charges for more than hooks you up!! Any car 30,000 and over should include more features as standard. Example Auto Climate Control. Power Seats, The list goes' on....... even Fog lights, Cruise.......$$$$$$$$$$$

Anyway, my Plane Jane does not have Fog Lights. Does anyone know how to order these little bulbs and have them Installed?? I do not see well at ,and beleive this is a safety issue for our greedy BMW Manufacture!!!

jed

Purchased an X3 2.5 on Monday. It is a stripper, and that's what we wanted. Paid extra
for special paint and auto. Most of the missing parts that should be standard (such as cruise control and automatic climate control) weren't important to me, but those holes where the fog lights should be are disconcerting. I don't much care that there are no functional fog lights but would be interested if someone has plugged in a Kragan or other quick fix solution.

The good news for me was that this car came with outside temp guage. In fact, the outside temp was the deal maker since I never expected to find a stripper with just auto and the four function computer and was pretty much resigned to the possibility of ordering a car. We'd planned to maybe wait to look at the Escape hybrid and revisit the 250Hp Outback before doing anything, but finding an almost perfect car and not waiting nine weeks was too big an incentive.

If anyone else out there is thinking of opting for the $300 four function computer just to get the outside temp, take a careful look at the current cars on the lot. Edmunds does not list the outside temp as standard equipment on the base 2.5, and I don't think BMW did either when I looked at that site. Maybe that function has been on all cars from the beginning or maybe they have added it. Wouldn't surprise me to see cruise and climate control added soon.
Now if only the dread creak doesn't occur. And the fabric portion of the seats doesn't stain (but I'll bet harplyr could get me past that problem if it comes up). So far I'm a happy camper.

trader_tom

I have test driven three different X3's so far, but non of them were "stripees". All of them had the outside temp. Two were the 2.5i and one was 3.0i. One of the 2.5i models only had the AT, cold weather package, and steering wheel/CC options. This model without the trip computer DID display the outside temperature. So, the documentation may be wrong. All of the literature at the dealer is still from the preliminary release last fall, which does not list the outside temp display as standard I beleive. Hope this helps.

I just ordered mine, but I opted for a base 3.0i to get the engine and feature upgrade without having to purchase the premium package. I stayed with the 6-speed and leatherette seats. It's jet black, and they stated delivery in 6-8 weeks, which I am told is a bumped-up schedule because this is a customer vehicle rather than a dealer allocation. My cost for the vehicle is $34,490 before tax and tags.

Anyone know what the MACO and Training Service Fees are exactly?

By the way, the 3.0i with a manual shift is a blast to drive. Well worth the upgrade from the base 2.5i auto. Shifts are smooth, and acceleration is on par or better than many sedans.

Thanks, Tom

kyfdx

Training service fees.. on the invoice, but the invoice you see on websites has that included already.. they just break it out differently on the actual invoice..

BMW invoice + training fee = KBB or edmunds invoice.

MACO is a regional advertising charge that varies according to region. Some dealers are in areas that do not have this.

None of these fees should come up if you negotiate an out-the-door price. If you are negotiating from the invoice, then that is a different matter.

regards,
kyfdx

trader_tom

For reference, I test drove three vehicles ranging in odometer from 3 to 330 miles. None of the vehicles creaked at all. One of the vehicles (2.5), I took on an overnight test drive for 100 miles. No creaking. I even it took it off road in my neighbors empty lot and drove it over some washboard with no noticeable noises. It did fine on rough gravel, inclines, loose sand, and moderate mud (which I washed off before returning the vehicle.)

Hopefully the vehicle I ordered will not exhibit the creak to any level

trader_tom

Thanks for the response.

Can these fees be negotiated out of the price I pay? I am guessing that they are added to every vehicle, but I was not sure if ordered cars are subject to the advertising charges.

Tom

kyfdx

If the dealer is subject to MACO, all of his cars will have it. The only exception is if you take European delivery. Concentrate on an out-the-door price.. All of these fees are charged to the dealer, not you... Once you agree to a price, that should be it.. But, if you insist on a certain number over invoice, be prepared to hear about them.

regards,
kyfdx

trader_tom

Thanks for the info. I don't think my price will have much negotiation left, based on the quote from my dealer. He gave me the order invoice from the online transaction with BMW. I guess they can order direct now, and no longer need to have orders placed by the New Jersey port of entry group.

X3 3.0i - 6 speed, jet black, no options
Invoice = 33,035
Dest. = 695
MACO = 200
Training= 160
Dealer = 400

Total = 34,490

I though this was a pretty good price.

Thanks again,
Tom

kyfdx

That is a great price..

Invoice + MACO + $400.

I would say that is bottom dollar.

regards,
kyfdx

new2bmw

What a waste of potential joy. The first 3 weeks of new car ownership, for any car, should be a joyous celebration of driving, and you would think this would never be more assured if the new car cost you 40K+ and might even be guaranteed if it is a BMW. But sadly neither the price or brand are a guarantee as I have found out with my new X3. The joyous celebration has been squashed, stifled, battered and mostly drowned out by the squeaking and creaking of my windows which is so loud you can’t even carry on a conversation when going slowly over bumps….I have to ask my passengers to pause while the creaking abates and then continue. So, needless to say the initial enthusiasm I had for showing off my new toy to friends and neighbors has been frittered away and I am left mumbling vague satisfaction when asked how I love my new car by ironically jealous friends.

Anyway, I drove 3 different X3s, all with different build dates before I picked this one and none of them ever squeaked or creaked during quite extensive test drives. Mine did not in fact start creaking until day 5 with me (bought it with 22 miles on the odometer and the creaking started at about 170 miles).

I could not find the X3 I wanted locally so I bought one in northern Virginia. My local dealer looked at the general module fault solution posted on this and other forums but found nothing wrong and are continuing to do a good job searching for another solution. As opposed to my usual experience, where the dealers are a nightmare and the car is a joy, in this case the dealers have both been a pleasure while the car is a disappointment.

So, I await a solution and if the problem continues much longer I will be a the former X3 owner who now drives a not-quite-so-cool but much quieter Infinity.

tdono

I have a X 3 with 400 Miles. No Window Cracking noise yet. I do have a sugestion. Try cracking your windows just a tiny bit. I have a 528I does the same thing. It is the window against the rubber seal that makes this sound... Other than that you will have to live with it. : )

tdono

Allot of these cars do this including your high line. The answer he gave you about sticky seals is partially correct. Look Dude. The window rides up against the rubber seal. The cars motion causes the seal and the rubber to give a little. This is what causes this annoying creaking. My 528I does this too. This will help you. Because you are so picky. Just crack the windows a tiny bit. Not enough to hear wind noise. This will help remove the creaking noise. Other than that live with it....

jimbob533

Why will we have to live with it? Crack the windows - so you no longer have the creaking, but with the windows cracked, you have road noise intrusions, rainwater, heat, odors from the outside (renders useless the air cleaning capabilities of the vehicle). That just doesn't seem like a reasonable response for a problem with a $43,000+ BMW!

My dealer told me that there was a problem like this with the 5 series after one of the model changes. I was told that BMW ultimately redesigned the seals. Have you checked with your dealer regarding your noise?

kyfdx

BMW + $43K = No problems?

Not for BMW or any other make car, and no matter how much you spend.. Is this your first car? Do you equate reliability and defect-free with cost?

All that said... You should not have to "live with it". Not in a BMW and not in a Hyundai. If you have a good dealer, you are way ahead of the game. If, as the other posters have supposed.. that your seals are causing the problem, they should be able to lubricate them. You shouldn't have to drive around with your windows slightly open.

All cars have problems.. Sometimes, especially the ones that cost the most... Hondas are "relatively" problem-free, and they surely aren't the most expensive cars.

Good luck... Hopefully, your dealer can fix your problems.

regards,
kyfdx

tdono

Look Dude, I said just a tiny bit. You won't hear the road noise. I will try to keep posted on this topic. But I will tell you now. You will not be able to get rid of this. BMW is not going to fess up to your statement of bad seals. Unless they are worn or cracked. Like I said YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT... : ) Or get rid of it.... Mercedes or VW Toureg..... I know its a bummer driving the ultimate driving machine and have something as little as this driving you nuts! I guess you have bad luck with picking a good one. Mine dont Creak at all. : ) However the 528I does. But it is 7 years old and I live with it.$$$$

cville

You may decide to live with it, but I won't. My dealer had my car for six days and monkeyed with the seals. I'll certainly give it a chance. However, if ultimately there isn't a satisfactory fix, I will have no problem seeing these guys in court. Lets's just say that I'm a bit old fashion, or perhaps just older, but I expect to get what I paid for, not "to live with it." If I don't, I pursue the appropriate remedy. So, all you guys with "creakers" stay tuned. I'll give it time, but if it reoccurs, then I'll take the necessary legal steps and let you know.

juddlaw1

I have a 2002 325xi and my 3 yr lease is up in 2 months and I am looking to stay with an "ultimate driving machine". I was going to get another 3 series, however, in March/April BMW is coming out with the new body. Thus, I saw and loved the sight of the little-brother X3!

My concern after research ---- all of the complaints with window situation. Personally, that would drive me insane and I believe those who are complaining have valid points. Has anyone experienced the problem and had is fixed permanently and successfully?

I could really see myself behind the wheel of the X3 and have a contact who could get me a GREAT deal (please don't ask). Any suggestions? I want to get the car this weekend so I can "strike while the iron's hot" and need some ideas....

 Thus, sometimes a deal may be worth it, but that creak and cracking - oh my!

sopecreek

What is this cracking exactly? If it works, why doesn't the dealer do it before the car is sold?

nab777

I had a '93 325i and when I would go over bumps you would hear a high pitched sound from the windows. This was one ting, very different from a constant rattle while in motion. Is this the creaking everyone is talking about?

Also read that the suspension is quite stiff on the x3 and going over those metal highway dividers (don't know what they are called) causes rough vibration and heard loudly in the cabin, are you guys experiencing this?

juddlaw1

The noises that I am refering to are those that have been complained about in tens of earlier posts.

I am concerned that this is a major common problem that may not be 'fixable'... is it? Will the luck of the draw have to play in effect or are all owners experiencing the same problems with the constant rattle of the windows?

jimbob533

Hello kyfdx:

You asked in your post of June 30: "Do you equate reliability and defect-free with cost?"

No, but, unfortunately, I did equate "quality" with BMW. And, apparently, that was my mistake.

I have owned BMWs for the past twenty years, and I have been pleased with the product and have had relatively trouble-free vehicles. That past history was the rationale for purchasing a new-to-the-market vehicle. It was, after all, a BMW.

kdshapiro

"I did equate "quality" with BMW"

Absolutely, they should fix whatever is the issue.

cville

Forget highway dividers; creaking happens in your driveway coming out of the garage.

jmaxe

You're kidding, right?

kyfdx

I agree... as I stated before, they should (and probably will) fix the creaking. .. I also equate BMW with quality.. But, that doesn't necessarily equate to reliability and defect-free.

And, my main point was.. how much you spend has absolutely nothing to do with it (ask anyone who has owned a Jaguar).. There are many cars under $20K that will give you far fewer problems than a BMW. They may not have the quality of engineering, but they sure have quality of assembly.

regards,
kyfdx

nab777

Does anyone know what changes are expected for the '05 model and when they will be available?

brock9

I have experienced some creaking, although it is hardly noticeable unless I'm focused on it. I've had my X3 3.0i for one month and have 800 miles on it. I totally enjoy it and would definitely buy one one again, this is my 5th BMW.

My thought is, that having the large panoramic moonroof,(instead of a solid sheet of metal) might allow more body flex and therefore cause our creaking. If this is the case there might not be a real solution...

I would like to know others opinion on this, and wonder if anyone without the moonroof has the creaking sounds also.

Brock

brock9

I have experienced some creaking, although it is hardly noticeable unless I'm focused on it. I've had my X3 3.0i for one month and have 800 miles on it. I totally enjoy it and would definitely buy one again, this is my 5th BMW.

My thought is that having the large panoramic moonroof,(instead of a solid sheet of metal) might allow more body flex and therefore cause our creaking. If this is the case there might not be a real solution...

I would like to know others opinion on this, and wonder if anyone without the moonroof has the creaking sounds also.

Brock

juanchypr

3 months, 4.5K miles, No moonroof, NO CREAKING (:

X3 3.0, Alpine White, Montana Grey, Steptronic.

sunilb

I'm amazed at the amount of backlash this guy is getting for complaining about a genuine problem.

<soap-box>
Let's suppose that he bought a generic car, though brand-new, I can't imagine anyone saying "live with it"... now, add in the fact that he paid top dollar for the car and (sorry, but whoever said that premium prices and quality are irrelevant, I disagree with) I could only imagine the frustration this person is going through.

This sounds like a defect, and I'm sure that if he doesn't say anything BMW won't fix this for the next model year (and/or for his car).

</soap-box>

Did anyone see the latest issue of Car magazine [UK publication]? They had an interesting comparison of the X3 vs. X5. Liked both-- thought the X5 was more mature, but thought the X3 was more agile.

new2bmw

I am really tired of this so I thought I would experiment some with some of the ideas everyone has had to try to isolate the creaking problem. Just to recap - the creaking noises are coming from all 4 door windows and not the sunroof or back window at all. They are pretty loud and are most noticeable when going slowly over bumps when I suspect more energy is being transferred to the door assemblies and windows. When you open the windows just enough that they do not touch the rubber molding at the top of the window housing then the noise is not present. This seems to mean that it is not the door latch clunking around on the hook, the door hitting the body anywhere or some other door rattle. When the window is up it seems to be changing how the molding fits against the body and when either the window or the door moves from the suspension system transmitting bumps then the creaking is heard.

I liked the zero impact of the waxing idea so last Friday I waxed the door channel on all doors from the very inside of the channel and around and up to about one quarter inch above the outside lip, which covers everywhere the top of the window molding touches the body. I put on a heavy coat of Mcguires carnauba (liquid), let it dry for several hours and buffed off the residue. Saturday we left for a long weekend trip to see the national fireworks display and returned last night. Results &#150; 90.0% of creaking was eliminated almost all of the time, but this morning after a cool/wet night the creaking was heard again although much quieter than before.

So, I think at least in my case the problem has been isolated to the door/window molding at the top of the door which is rubbing against the body and causing the creaking and it seems to change in relation to temperature and or humidity. Unfortunately the creaking is a symptom of something and I don&#146;t know what yet, possibly the suspension is too stiff for the body or doors to handle, the window or doors move too much when going over bumps or are not rigid enough, or possibly the design of the molding is faulty.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback, especially those of you with this problem. I go back to the dealer at the end of the week, I will let you know if any progress is made.

harplayr

5 months 8K on mine. If I turn off the radio and blower and really listen, I can occasionally hear a "click" or slight creak coming from the windows. It is hardly noticeable, and doesn't bother me in the slight est. It sounds to me like this occur es in varying degrees and some are more sensitive to it than others.

cville

You're lucky. My front passenger door, which the dealer worked on, was very, very loud in its creaking. I have a faint noise in the rear passenger, but not enough to make me want to give up the car for another six days. I am waiting to see if the front creaking begins again. As for the other fellow's question, yes I do have the moonroof and perhaps that has something to do with it.

harplayr

"As for the other fellow's question, yes I do have the moonroof and perhaps that has something to do with it. "

Maybe not, mine also has a moonroof.

tdono

Yea.... yea..... yea....... bla.... bla..... bla..... Well it seems to me when someone tells you straight up "Live with it". You have have to seek Justice?
Is there a Lemon Law in your state? Some states have this and you might be able to file a grievance and bring it back. However, if there is not a lemon law? I think you are going to have to live with it.... : )

stever

I don't think the Lemon Law is the exclusive remedy in most states. In addition to perhaps the extreme escalation of hiring a lawyer, most states have consumer protection agencies, BBBs, etc., plus you can simply raise the issue with BMW if you aren't happy with the dealer response.

Even taking it to a different dealer can sometimes yield good results.

Steve, Host