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Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

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Comments

  • thenewguythenewguy Member Posts: 5
    I prefer the Milan's styling to the Fusion's by a large amount. I just wish the Milan was available here in Canada. It'd make my short list for sure. :(
  • jzwolakjzwolak Member Posts: 1
    You aren't the only one. I would be on the lot the day they were released. Now how do we get Ford to make one?
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    IMHO, the Fusion just cathes up to the [non-permissible content removed].

    The Civic though completely redefines its class.

    I'm not sure what the other nominees for Truck of the year are but the Explorer really raises the bar.

    Amazing safety features, Super quiet interior and the best third row of any SUV this size.

    Also the 4.0L V6 now produces less smog forming emissions than the Honda Accord Hybrid!

    Mark
  • poodog13poodog13 Member Posts: 320
    Civic is much smaller than the Fusion, and much less refined than the Milan.

    Bad comparison.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    the civic is pretty expensive. it is in accord territory.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • rscherbrscherb Member Posts: 46
    This is a Fusion discussion area, not Civic area, two aren't in the same genre. Then there are some other glaring issues.
    1) Sitting in the civic you feel like your in a tin can, I rented one thinking the agency was doing me a favor. It was awful. Then the car is much smaller than the Fusion, and it's way overpriced for what you get.
    Please stay on topic.
    Does anybody know how the Fusion is selling right now? I want to find out if it really is going to be the hit that Ford desperately needs to add to it's passenger line-up.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    You rented the redesigned Civic, which has only been out for 1.5 months, and the model has historically sold bout 4% annually to fleets? Interesting.

    ~alpha
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    I was only trying to point out that the Car of the Year award is suppose to go to the vehicle that brings something new to the market.

    The Fusion is a great car but does not bring anything new to the market. The Mazda6 on which it is heavily based was an 04 model.

    I wasn't trying to compare the Civic to the Fusion, just stating that I would bet on the Civic beating the Fusion for the Car of the Year award as it completely redefines the segment it does compete in.

    At best, Fusion just refines a car that was already available for 2 model years.

    Mark
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Does anybody know how the Fusion is selling right now? I want to find out if it really is going to be the hit that Ford desperately needs to add to it's passenger line-up.

    Here you go:

    http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=22034
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Civic...completely redefines the segment...

    Golly, what a wonderful collection of words that sound so profound and exciting, but mean nothing...

    Can you tell me what exactly the new definition of the segment is, and what the old definition was before Honda created the new definition?

    What are you doing writing news releases for Honda. :P
  • drewbadrewba Member Posts: 154
    Up 34% from October, but still only 8,863 Fusion/Milan/Zephyrs were sold in November. Toyota sold over 425,000 Camrys in 2004, so Ford still has a long way to go to even call them competitive.

    I would imagine that short supply has something to do with the large percentage increase over October and low total sales.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    They're selling Fusions and Zephyrs as fast as they can get them. Milans are not as hot, but they're still selling all they can make right now.
  • hatleyhatley Member Posts: 7
    in northern california (bay area) i still have not seen any fusions, milans, zephyrs on the road. so while they are selling on the east coast, there does not seem to be much activity out west. also i wonder if any body else has noticed that the 06 accord seems to have the same rear end as the fusion. the tail lights look much better that what the fusion has.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Although they're selling fast, they haven't made that many yet so it's still rare to see one on the road. Wait a few more months.
  • f111df111d Member Posts: 114
    Ford's marketing needs to read dieselform.org and quit listening to the EPA. Mr. Ford listen to reality not politicians.
    ???
    I don't know----????
    but it makes as much as sense going nuts over hybrids(granted a perceived easier sell) another interim technology with much bigger huddles than CRD diesels. IHMO
    Ford already had readied a small twin turbo v-6 for the Jag, a single turbo would be fine here.
    Mpg and lower end torque with the Fusions spacious interior. (YES The big down low torque will get up the on-ramp with the air on, be able to cruise the interstate with mpg's in the 40's.
    Ok Bill I understand it's really the stockholder you have to keep happy first, thanks in part that infamous statement made by Ivan Boesky in 1985 in front of Stanford business students "I think greed is healthy". So giving us a CRD diesel wagon---maybe consumers need to start first by kicking these executives IE: Enrons,Worldcoms,Tycos etc etc etc. Those CEO's have no regrets, only that they got caught.
    I'm sure the clean diesel fuel and California except able CRD clean air equipment would have been here long time-ago if it wasn't for "greed"!
    So "jzwolak" start kicking. I've already got a Mr.William Esrey in my sights. No not rifle sights! Hi Hi

    Paul
  • gogophers1gogophers1 Member Posts: 218
    I see some similarities between the Fusion and new Accord rear-ends too but wouldn't go as far as stating that Honda has a copy-cat design. To me, they're both rather generic. The Ford's is vanilla and the Honda's is vanilla light (dare I say everything about the Honda is vanilla light including the tail lights). Personally, I rather prefer the Fusion's. But I'm not a 45-year old female either (Honda's target market is clearly skewed toward aging women). Turn to the noses though and the Ford looks like a movie star, the Honda one of those dumpy cashiers at the Retail Rodeo.

    Speaking of which, I'm curious if this is just a Minneapolis phenomenon, but everyday heading into downtown I experience the following: the passing lane is blocked by a single vehicle (in front of which is 1000 feet of clear road) traveling at an identical or slightly lesser speed as the middle lane(s) of traffic and that vehicle is invariably a Honda or Toyota product (Corollas are the worst offenders followed closely by Camries, Accords and, to a lesser extent, Civics). 9 times out of 10 the driver is a woman with one of those Milwaukee-style hairdos. This begs the question, do these cars make people lose their fashion sense and drive like oblivious buffoons or do oblivious buffoons with no fashion sense seek out and purchase vehicles like the Corolla and Accord? Food for thought...

    I suspect we won't see any Fusions plugging up the passing lanes with like drivers, but time will tell. For the moment, Fusion is the hippest mid-sizer on the market.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Hatley, please email me - pat AT edmunds.com - thanks!
  • chrisfordchrisford Member Posts: 55
    That's funny. I think the generic nature of these imports (Accord and Camry) must make folks live such a Blahhhhh lifestyle. Personally I really can't stand hearing the name Honda. I remind me of something uninspired while Camry make s me want to but a gun to my head. I do prefer the Sonata to both, but the Fusion, ah that sounds like music to my ears.
  • gogophers1gogophers1 Member Posts: 218
    It's not funny when you're running 5 minutes late. Perhaps if I still worked for the gov't I could laugh it off but in the private sector timeliness counts. These Corolla drivin' middle-aged women are killing me I tell ya!

    Yeah, I don't know what happened to Honda. Toyota has always made quality-built wallflower sedans for the real estate agent and church secretary crowd, but Honda USED to be cool. And it wasn't that many years ago.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Could we get back to the subject and leave off characterizing groups of people in this manner, please?
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    IMHO and according the Car and Driver,

    Fusion beats Camry. Thats right, Ford can build a car as good as Toyota.

    Now lets see if Toyota can build a truck that can match the F-150

    Or a mid-size body on frame that can match the Explorer.

    Or a sporty car that can match the Mustang. (is there even an attempt at a sporty car?)
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Fusion beats Camry. Thats right, Ford can build a car as good as Toyota.

    That's the brand new Fusion beats the 5 year old Camry design, right?
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    "New" Camry is not going to be anything earth shattering. It will be the variation of existing platform. Toyota changes design once in 8-10 years. So do not expect miracles. Is not gonna be a sport-sedan Camry, or have spectacular new suspension setting. It will be the same old boring smooth riding cruiser for old folks. So I bet Fusion still will beat new Camry.
  • dave2222dave2222 Member Posts: 78
    Your facts aren't correct.
    The Camry's history
    2007 M.Y -Redesigned
    2006 M.Y
    2005 M.Y
    2004 M.Y
    2003 M.Y -Redesigned

    Fusions History
    2006 M.Y -Introduction
    So its going again a 3-4 year old design.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Correct. And when 2007 Camry comes out the story would be: "And New Camry could not beat two years old Fusion (and five years old Accord too for that matter)"!
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    the camry used the same 'chassis' for over a decade until the last redesign. they mostly changed the styling. that does mean it worked pretty well.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Um, no, its actually

    Camry
    2007 MY redesign
    2006
    2005 MY freshening
    2004
    2003
    2002 MY redesign (the current Camry debuted in '01).

    The Camry is most certainly in its FIFTH model year of the current design. And for what its worth, the Fusion only beat in the C/D comparison by 5 points.

    ~alpha
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    ANT14 - I have an argument going on with Lexusguy, who claims (as does automotive.com) that the 3.0L engine used in the current Jag S-type, is the Ford Duratech engine. I could swear, it was a Jag engine when the S-type, and Lincoln LS came out. Has something changed, or am I just wrong?
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    IIRC, it's a Duratech engine with cam-phasing. A milder variation of it is in the Mazda 6.

    HTH
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The 3.0 Stype and Lincoln LS both use a Duratec derived V6. The V8 versions use a Jag AJ-V8 derivative. The blocks are the same but they use different cylinder linings, different intakes and different heads and different PCM controls. The Jag engines had VVT from the get-go IIRC - Lincoln added it for 03. Aside from the blocks being the same everything else is really different. So I guess you're both right to some extent.
  • 72chevelle72chevelle Member Posts: 8
    I rented a G6 (base V6) the other day and came away pleased. I haven't drove a Fusion yet, but was wondering how they would stack up, Could anyone that has driven both a Fusion and G6 give a comprarison of the two?
  • rscherbrscherb Member Posts: 46
    AutoWeek had an article about the Fusion this week. Ford according to them has a hit on it's hands. Dealers have been complaining about not recieving enough of the cars yet and have a waiting lists for the Fusions. They had some production problems and Collins & Aikmans was an issue also. They have sold more than 54,000 of them so far.
    Another part of the issue is that from what I see is rental companies have first dibs on the new vehicles. Maybe or maybe not that is a contributing issue
  • rscherbrscherb Member Posts: 46
    Also good news is that I haven't seen a bad review on the fusion yet. Problem is getting enough people to consider them. Namely getting new people to consider Ford after so many years. Ford, I now believe is doing everything they can to try to get new people to consider them. The reviews will definitely help.
    With other new Fords coming out next year that will also hopefully help. I have seen some of the Ford Edge pictures. It looks pretty darn good. I think they need a couple more hits to make a turnaround really complete.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Thanks to both of you for clearing that up. I appreciate your help. :P
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    I was on a trip, couldn't answer quickly, but Akirby is correct. But overall, if the block is similar and/or derived from an existing engine architecture, than so, it is. IN this case, majority of the engine is Ford. Jaguar was handed the basic blueprint, and it was up to Jaguar to install the extra landscaping, tiled floors, swimming pool, brick paved driveway, etc.'

    It's one of those topic where, "how much does something need to change or be different, to be considered, different". Like when the Camry platform question came up which has been around for a long time...

    Or like the Aussie Ford Falcon, which can trace it's roots to the Falcon of yesturyear, YET so much has been tweaked, that it's possible to call it all new (As the 2003 Panther revision). Etc.etc.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I got a VERY detailed survey in the mail that I was able to complete on the web about my new Fusion. It was from an outside consulting group (RDA??). What amazed me was the level of detail. There were 12 categories (pages) and each one had up to 30 or 40 different answers. e.g. Instead of asking "do you have squeaks and rattles Y/N" they ask you to pinpoint the exact area (30 or 40 choices) and type of sound. Similar detail on the other questions.

    Anybody else gotten one? This is in addition to the normal Ford survey.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Has anyone experienced a "skunky" smell from the A/C? It's almost gone but was very strong at first. I assumed it was a sticker or adhesive that needed to burn off or dissipate.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Thank you, ANT - turns out I was wrong on this one, but I graciously accept correction.. :surprise:
  • rscherbrscherb Member Posts: 46
    Betting that its Ford Fusion sedan will be a hit, Ford Motor Co. plans to add a third shift at its Hermosillo, Mexico, plant next year.

    The third shift will start during the first quarter, Brian Vought, chief engineer of Ford's new mid-sized sedans, told Automotive News. Hermosillo makes about 800 combined units of the Fusion and its two siblings, the Mercury Milan and Lincoln Zephyr, each day.

    The goal is to ramp up to 1,050 cars a day early next year.

    At that rate, Hermosillo would produce about 250,000 vehicles annually, the Automotive News Data Center estimates. Ford has said that Hermosillo would have a maximum annual capacity of 300,000.

    Production of the three cars began Aug. 1. Sales started in late September, and Ford says the Fusion already is selling beyond expectations. Ford sold 4,078 Fusions through October, about 50 percent more than it says it expected at that point.

    "Vehicles are moving off dealer lots very quickly, and we are working to build dealer inventories," Vought wrote in an e-mail.

    The Hermosillo cars have gotten off to a better start than new models from Ford's Chicago plant did a year ago.

    Ford sold 6,618 of the Fusions, Milans and Zephyrs in October after beginning the month with just 1,100 in stock, said George Pipas, Ford's sales analysis and reporting manager. That was almost 1,000 units more than Ford sold of the Chicago-made Ford Five Hundred, Mercury Montego and Ford Freestyle in October 2004 when it had started the month with about 3,000 units.

    The Hermosillo plant will nearly double its work force when the third shift is added.

    Ford employs about 1,600 hourly workers and 220 salaried workers at Hermosillo, a Ford official said. The automaker plans to add 1,500 hourly workers and 50 salaried workers when production is increased next year, with some of the new workers assigned to the existing shifts.
  • allfiredupallfiredup Member Posts: 736
    You rented the redesigned Civic, which has only been out for 1.5 months, and the model has historically sold bout 4% annually to fleets? Interesting.

    Good point, I'd say 4% even sounds pretty high!

    The Civic and Fusion could easily be competitors. They were both on my shopping list. They're both roomy for their size and drive quite well. A dealer let me keep a Civic overnight and I was impressed. They were both on my shopping list. I ended up with a Mazda3, though.
  • allfiredupallfiredup Member Posts: 736
    Up 34% from October, but still only 8,863 Fusion/Milan/Zephyrs were sold in November. Toyota sold over 425,000 Camrys in 2004, so Ford still has a long way to go to even call them competitive.

    Could availability have something to do with the lower than expected sales figures? Just a thought.
  • allfiredupallfiredup Member Posts: 736
    I've been saying for a few years now that if one of the Big Three would be first to make a diesel available here on a mass market vehicle, it'd be a hit. Jeep's Liberty with the CRD has sold far beyond their expectations, despite its $4k price premium and the fact that the Liberty really isn't all that desirable to begin with. GM could save Saturn by bringing over some good Vauxhall/Opel models with turbodiesel.

    Ford has some excellent diesel engines in Europe. I've driven both a Mondeo and Focus with TD in Europe and was very impressed. The Fusion would be an excellent candidate for one of these engines.
  • allfiredupallfiredup Member Posts: 736
    It's not funny when you're running 5 minutes late. Perhaps if I still worked for the gov't I could laugh it off but in the private sector timeliness counts. These Corolla drivin' middle-aged women are killing me I tell ya!

    Yeah, I don't know what happened to Honda. Toyota has always made quality-built wallflower sedans for the real estate agent and church secretary crowd, but Honda USED to be cool. And it wasn't that many years ago.


    The only way to deal with people like that in the left lanes is to get about two car lengths behind them (in case they hit the brakes) and turn on your headlights to make yourself VERY visible. Works even better if you have foglights, too. They will inevitably get ticked off, but usually move over a lane. I hate to be rude like that, but if you don't know the rules of the road you have no business driving on it.

    I could not agree more with your comment about Honda. I drove them for years, from my first car in '88 until about a month ago. I test drove Accord and Civic when I was shopping recently and, while they were excellent in most every way, they lacked that "edge" that Honda used to have. I'm not sure if it was the growl of the engine when you revved it hard, the slick manual transmission, low cowl or something else, but they drove like no other cars in the world. The new models feel like Toyotas to me. I ended up in a Mazda3.
  • allfiredupallfiredup Member Posts: 736
    Fusion beats Camry. Thats right, Ford can build a car as good as Toyota

    You have to realize that Car and Driver are car guys, as are many of us. We have a passion for driving and cars that want to be driven much more than the average buyer. The Camry sells in droves, but to fleets and people who see cars only as an appliance. I'd rather ride a moped than make payments on a Camry. Most Toyotas are injected with something akin to automotive novocaine. The Fusion actually looks and drives like it has a passion for driving.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    The only way to deal with people like that in the left lanes is to get about two car lengths behind them...if you don't know the rules of the road you have no business driving on it.

    So you should get off the road, since you apparently think you have the right to tailgate...officially known as "following too closely"!

    One example of this law (from AL) is:

    Except when overtaking and passing another vehicle, the driver of a vehicle shall leave a distance of at least 20 feet for each 10 miles per hour of speed between the vehicle that he is driving and the vehicle that he is following.

    http://www.legislature.state.al.us/CodeofAlabama/1975/32-5A-89.htm
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    That sounds great on paper, however; try that theory on I-95 driving from NJ to Fla. and the guy behind you passes , cuts in front of you....and...now you on on his butt. Drop back to the 20 foot rule, and once again you get passed. believe me, it doesn't work in real life. It is really the Correct way to drive (as you state)...but...it doesn't work.
  • gogophers1gogophers1 Member Posts: 218
    Car makes go through cycles just like hair and clothing fashion. I remember when I was really young (back in the early 80s) and going to Wally McCarthy's Oldsmobile with my dad (some folks may remember it as the dealership Jerry Lundegard worked at in the movie Fargo). At the time, Oldsmobile was still the cool car to own, riding out the amazing popularity of the Cutlass Supreme in the mid and late '70s. But the "coolness" faded fast in that decade. What killed Oldsmobile was that the folks who were buying Cutlasses in 1990 were the same people who bought them in 1975. In other words, it became a car for old people. And no young person wants to drive "their father's Oldsmobile".

    The problem for the "Big 2" Asian makes now is that dad doesn't own an Cutlass. He owns an Accord (and grandpa, well, he drives a Avalon). Honda is currently seeing the same shift now that Olds saw 20 years ago. They're trying to retain the 1990 Accord buyer, but in the process, they're turning off younger people like myself. Case in point: the Element was targeted at twenty-somethings and everyone that's bought one so far is over 40. Honda still makes fine cars, but the spark is fading. And the cool factor? Gone.

    I think Ford is positioned well with the Fusion/Milan. I was surprised at how firm the steering was when I got behind the wheel of one. Ford has made no bones about the fact that these cars are not intended for liver spots (I'm still blown away by the fact that they made a manual available in the Milan). And the best way to bring young people (I still lump myself in this crowd even though I just turned 30 this year) is to send old folks to Honda and Toyota stores. Hey, I don't want an Accord. That's the model my uncle in Bismarck traded in his Cutlass Ciera for 10 years ago.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Are they still having inventory problems over there?
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Sure...I know what you mean. But driving two car lengths behind at 70 mph with your brights on, in order to intimidate people who you think should get out of the way is no way to drive. 70 mph is about 100 feet per second. A distance of two car lengths is covered in about 0.33 sec.

    The other thing that happens is, if I want to drive, say 70-75 mph, in order to pass the cars going slower in the right lane, I have to stay in the left lane. Because if you move over to the right you are stuck behind someone going 65 (or less) and you can never get back in the left lane to pass...as they are all tailgating, so there is not enough room between them to move over safely.

    So before the spanking for being off topic comes :) ... I'll agree to use the left lane only for passing just as soon as everyone else stops their tailgating.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Sigh...And a large number of people who would buy a Fusion are still buying Hondas and Toyotas as they will not even look at or consider buying a Fusion until "everyone else does." Bad behaviour by others is not an excuse for bad behaviour by oneself. Or, as my mother used to tell me, if everyone else goes and jumps in the lake are you going to, too?

    Seriously, the herd mentality is a real problem. It's part of why we are where we are with the auto industry, traffic, etc.

    Oh well, enough about that...I am still driving my Five Hundred and not trading for a Fusion for three main reasons: (a) I am much impressed with the Five Hundred's safety record, (b) I am NOT impressed with the Aisin six speed in the Fusion and its gear hunting and (c) I am at least waiting til AWD, the new GM/Ford JV six speed transmission and the IIHS crash test results for Fusion are available...then I will decide.

    I'll probably buy a new Five Hundred or Montego again with the AWD and 3.5L engine. Why am I looking, you might ask? 52,000 miles so far on my 05 Five Hundred SEL AWD!
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