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Even an average reliable car today is much more reliable that the best car of 10 years ago.
Mark
I agree that I don't know how my car will be in 2012. But I think you can say that about all cars. The Corolla was once thought to be the poster child for reliability and recently went through a massive recall in Japan. And the new Camry by many accounts has had serious transmission problems. Again, I'm not trying to pick on Toyota, I think they make good products, but it bothers me when people see Toyonda as being on a whole different level from Ford and GM. I simply don't think it's true in 2006.
That's not the same engine. It uses iron and not aluminum and can be found in Ford V6 trucks and in the Mustang V6 bored out to 4.0.
And it was more likely SOHC, for there was a special DOHC version by Cosworth only in the mid 90's.
And Cosworth IIRC.
Go for it!
YES!!! I cannot agree more! The media has, over and over and over beat into our heads that no one can build a great vehicle but Honda/Toyota. It is going to be a slow process for the consumer to have to figure this one out on their own. I too have friends that have asked me "Why didn't you buy a Honda/Toyota? Why Ford? and they too look at me funny. Image, pure perceived image. Although, once they take a look at my Fusion they like the car, once I tell them what I paid for it.. They can't believe it. Time, its going to take time. And folks like you and I to post in rooms like this to get the tide turned for both Ford and GM.. :shades:
Scape I've wanted to ask you this for a long time now. What is the motivation of and the subsequent benefit to the "media" in perpetuating this grand conspiracy against the big 2.5 that you always bring up?
Seems to me that using your line of thinking the "media" would eventually cripple the domestic car makers and all those dollars they spend on advertising would be lost. Kinda like shooting yourself in the foot if you ask me.
As for shooting itself in the foot, that didn't stop the media from exposing a CIA operative.
It's called history. If Toyota keeps the quality issues on current levels for next several years, they will not keep the quality name. Everybody with long record of reliability will get credit, even if they don't deserve it.
Conversely, Detroit was doing nothing (or so it seemed) for twenty-thirty years. Even if they improved recently (and they probably did), it will take years to regain the trust of the public and there is nothing they can do about it, but patiently and continuously improve their record.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Mark
I'll give you another instance:
In Motor Trends September 2007/08 new car buyers guide the Acura TSX has a 2.4 205HP 4cyl engine. The car weighs more than the Fusion and is just a tick slower in automatic form to the Fusion SEL V6. Under the Fusion the make a comment "needs power to match" Why?
Read my friend, read. Another thing, read the comments this mag makes under domestic brands, and all the praise it give the foreign brands. The Fusion/Milan are turning out to be very reliable, well built vehicles. Heard anything yet about the positive about Ford products? What about all the problems Toyota is having.. ? I have been scouring the papers, taping news, not as much as a peep..
This is factually untrue. I don't know of any other way of putting it.
Your Fusion is essentially a Mazda 6, a foreign car. The 6 is also said to be down on power compared to its higher powered competitors.
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, the reason some foreign brands are praised by journalists is because they deserve to be?
I'm sorry but it is a fact - or at least it has been in the past. I (and an entire group of Ford enthusiasts) have been watching recall announcements the last 3-4 years to see how the media handles them. A Ford recall makes the 6 pm news - often as one of the lead stories - while a similar Toyota recall is either barely mentioned or not mentioned at all.
All I'm asking for is equal treatment and fair and unbiased reporting of the facts.
I am not to sure about that. I seem to hear just about every Ford or GM recall as a top story on some news broadcast. I cannot recall hearing about a Toyota or Honda recall that way. Most times I hear about a Toyota or Honda recall its in a place you would have to look for it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Another example.. The first year Odessey was an abolute nightmare for Honda. That van had all kinds of transmission problems to electrical problems to quality/fit/finish issues. Yet, it still made van of the year!!?? Please explain that one.. :confuse:
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, the reason some foreign brands are praised by journalists is because they deserve to be? "
Ok, if the Fusion is "foreign" then why isn't it getting the recognition and praise it deserves? Because it has a blue oval badge thats why.
Take a minute and look closely at the 0-60 numbers. Depending on which review you believe the Fusion does 0-60 in anywhere from 7.2 - 7.5 seconds. This is tenths of a second behind its competitors. Can you count to tenths of a second? I could fully understand if the Fusion was 2 seconds or more slower than like vehicles in this class, that would be something to write about. But tenths of a second?? and call the Fusion underpowered?? People need to read the facts.
I don't doubt "foreign brands" are good cars/trucks/vans whichever. The constant beat down of Ford/GM is very evident however. Over the years the media has pounded it into our heads that Ford/GM cannot build good vehicles. When in truth they do. Ford/GM have risen to the challenge of the foreign brands and do make very good/reliable/quality/fit/finish vehicles. Image and perception are now what Ford/GM need to over come with the public.
Described as having "ice blue" prefered suede inserts on the seats and doors. along with fog lights and 17 inch wheels with painted pockets.
Mark
I wanted the 0% for 72 months. So he would sell it for $19,150 with financing. It had automatic transmission, safety and security package, ABS, and SE Sport package. After NY state tax I figured I'd pay $274 a month.
I let it go, though. I feel like I let a good deal go.
How often do manufacturers offer 0% for 72 months? Which ones usually offer it?
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060831/BUSINESS01/608310322/10- 14
Toyota is a Japanese company.
Read the Japanese papers and Toyota news makes front page over Ford.
Ford, while not on DJIA, is considered important in US economy.
Toyota and Honda financial performance does not have the same impact on us except indirectly for the market share they take away from Ford and GM.
What is and is not domestic ain't so simple no more.
It always amazes me when people in Fusions look down on their neighbor driving a "foreign" Camry put together in Georgetown, Kentucky.
What profits? Ford is losing money, there are no profits.
Yet other companies like Caterpiller are on the DJIA and have a greater effect on it (Cats DJIA weighing is 6.88 while GM's is 2.75). So how come Cats problems are not as news worthy as GM's?
Ford, while not on DJIA, is considered important in US economy.
Yet Toyota and Honda have a great impact on the US economy as Ford. They sell cars here, they build cars here. In the world today they have nearly as much, if not as much impact as Ford.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Toyota is a Japanese company.
Read the Japanese papers and Toyota news makes front page over Ford."
Although this is a bit off topic, I came across this news while on a recent business trip. Guess who sells the most cars in Japan? Not Toyota, not Honda, not Nissan, and not even Subaru . . . Suzuki (the made in Japan-kind) sell the most cars in Japan. Surprised . . . I was.
That's ridiculous. On an individual vehicle basis some vehicles make money and some don't. The Panthers (TC, Grand Marquis, Crown Vic) make a ton of money per unit because the platform was paid for ages ago.
The Fusion/Milan/Zephyr triplets are selling at expected levels with minimal incentives (except for some Zephyr lease incentives) and Ford is making profit on each one sold. As opposed to other vehicles like the Lincoln LS that was losing money (for various reasons too lengthy to go into here).
The key to individual vehicle profitability is keeping the factories running near capacity, sharing platforms and having products that sell without huge incentives. And the triplets fit that description.
I would call 0% for 6 years a huge incentive. This must cost Ford at least $2-5000 for each vehicle sold under that program.
How does it matter if vehicle A has a "profit" if it is spent covering losses on vehicle B?
I think rather than "profits", you just mean that ford spends a lot of money in the US...even for cars that are assembled in mexico.
In years past it was but it's not easy to find an '06 Fusion that's not a base I4 these days therefore making the deal lose some of its lustre. At least around here (Pittsburgh) anyway. YMMV.
The two dealers I just dealt with when I bought my Mustang last week were even having a hard time keeping '07 Fusions in stock. In fact, the one I bought from had 7 new cars on it's lot for sale and that was the first day of the 0% deal. Three of those 7 were Fusions. Two '07 I4s and a gold '06 I4 with pretty much no options. They were down to 6 cars after I left that day.
The 0% is more or less there to clear all '06 models from the lots as the '07s move in but IMO it's mostly there for trucks and SUVs right now. Those aren't moving at all.
True, but
a) this only applies to 2006 vehicles and there aren't that many 2006 Fusions left in stock. Spot checking dealerships near me show 1, 3 and 4 2006 Fusions in stock and some of those are probably already sold.
b) this is in lieu of the $1K cash rebate that was already being offered
c) it's a limited time offer
So the effect of this particular incentive on the profitability of the Fusion for the entire model year will be small to not even noticeable. Now if they had been selling with $3K incentives all year that would be a different story.
How does it matter if vehicle A has a "profit" if it is spent covering losses on vehicle B?
Because if I didn't have vehicle A then my losses would be even bigger. And if I can get rid of vehicle B or make it profitable then I'll be making a profit. You can't say that if both A and B are both losing money.
Ford is simply trying to create new vehicles that are individually profitable and get rid of vehicles that are not profitable (unless they have some other benefit such as CAFE) or fix them so that they are profitable. It's no different than owning a chain of stores - some stores will make money and some won't. If a particular store isn't making money you either fix it or close it and open a new one that can make money.
This is different than what Ford and GM used to do. In the past they'd keep making an unprofitable car just to keep the plant running and the workers employed and dump the excess cars into rental fleets or push huge incentives. But they simply can't afford to do that anymore. Now it's about making each car profitable - by sharing platforms, controlling volume and building cars that people actually want and are willing to buy based on features and not just based on the lowest cost.
Even the Mexicans know poor quality when they see it!
True, but regionalism also plays a role for me at least. Even though the Fusion's final assembly is in Mexico, many of its stamped parts come from Ford's plant in Buffalo, NY. Since I am a Western New Yorker, it means a heck of a lot more to me than Toyota assembling Camrys in Kentucky. Until Toyota, Honda, etc. have a presence where I live, they will always be more 'foreign' to me than Ford or GM, who contribute directly to my local economy.
The danger of 0% is when you give up a substantial rebate and don't plan to keep the vehicle for at least the 5 year plan. Remember, the car is already depreciated by at least the amount of the public rebates even before you take delivery.
Remember, just because you sign the 72 month contract, does not mean you have to take the whole 72 months to pay. There is no prepayment penalty.
Mark.
It would be very foolish to prepay a 0% loan. If you are worried about the value of the car being less than what you owe, simply put the savings from the lower monthly payments into, for example, a money market and earn 5% interest.
For instance if you would normally take a 3 year loan and your 0% 72 month loan has $300 per month payments, Put $300 per month savings into a money market.
PRICELESS! A car that's heavily based upon the Mazda 6. A car whose transmission comes from Japan.
As far as where Honda and Toyota profits go, where do think the money comes from when they built their U.S. manufacturing plants? Perhaps some of it comes from their profits, you think?
People, please, please understand. Assembled is different than built. The tooling of the Japanese plants are also 90 percent Japanese and mostly supported by Japanese. Americans do the "Assembly" So, don't go spouting off about jobs until you really understand what kind of jobs they really are...