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Somebody bought the issue of thew 98 626 being too much like a Camry ride-wise. The 93-97 626 sold pretty good and its not exctly the most sportiest car in the world.
Everybody keeps on talking about the current generation Altima and how it blew up in size and how sales grew. The 98-01 Altima didn't offer an alternative exterior styling wise to the 98-02 Accord or 97-01 Camry so that one of the reasons the last generation Altima didn't sell well. The 93-97 Altima did offer distinctive exterior styling from the Honda and Toyota crowd. Interior room is only part of the reason the current Altima is a great success right now. The other part of the reason the Altima is the success it is is because it is distinctive styling wise from the Camry and Accord.
Mazda competes pretty well in the compact class with 3 and last gen Protege. They just can't get a Camry or Accord competitor. I thought the current 6 would be the answer. The current 6 is selling good for what it is(a youth 4 door car.) On the other side of it the 6 gets outsold monthly 4 times by the Altima and at least 6 times by the Camry and Accord.
The 6 reminds of another favorite car of mine the mid 90's Accord. When Toyota blew up the Camry in 91-92 Honda failed to answer with the 94 Accord and Honda was very dissapointed with sales of the 5th generation Accord. So Honda grew the Accord in 97-98 and it competed with the Camry better than the previous model Accord did.
Finally, it seems like Toyota gets bigger with the Camry every generation that a new Camry comes out and Honda and Nissan answered Toyota's call with cars like the 98 Accord and 02 Altima. In conclusion it looks like Toyota sets the bar for Honda, Nissan, and Mazda to shoot for in the mid-size game. I guess the 04 Mitsubishi Galant is just that bad looking.
When first introduced the Altima virtually saved Nissan in the US, they just let it go too long without a true redesign. The cash infusion from their deal with Renault has allowed them to introduce so many completely new models in the last few years. The Sentra is the only remaining pre-Renault model and the dowdiest Nissan in their lineup.
I don't think Mazda wants to be Nissan, Honda, or Toyota, but would be happy to be known for sporty high quality youth oriented vehicles. I would be curious to see the average age of 3 and 6 buyers compared to Civic/Corolla and Accord/Camry. Toyota's introduced a whole new division (Scion) to try to capture the youth market which I suspect Mazda already has a handle on.
The mid-90s smallish Accords sold pretty well to those who'd have bought a BMW if they could afford one and regarded the Accord, with it's smaller size and sharper handling than Camry as a sort of poor man's Beemer.
Now that the Accord has aimed itself at Joe and Jane sixpack the Mazda 3 and 6 are well positioned to take over that role.
As for the new Galant, it looks like a very cheap attempt to copy the Altima that ended up looking like a bloated Saturn Ion.
About Scion I think the TC will steal some Mazda 3 sales. When Toyota see's another competitor come on like the Mazda 3 they answer with a product of their own. As everybody knows on this board I am a Toyota exterior styling hater but Toyota didn't get this far for nothing you know. For the record I would still take the Mazda 3 over the TC. A compact car with 2 doors like the TC is a little tight I would think in terms of room and to access in and out of.
On the topic of the 3 and the 6 I like better in terms of exterior styling but the 3 competes better in its respective class than the 6 does in the mid-size class. The 3 and the 6 are too close together in terms of interior room. Dealers are now offering like 2500-3000 dollars of their own money to clear leftover 04 6's off the lot. Thats not good news. On the other hand I don't think Mazda dealers are that genenerous to clear a Mazda 3 off their lot than a Mazda 6.
Fnally, I read somewhere on these boards that Mazda will bring out a next generation Tribute that Ford won't have any part of. Thats great news. I;m not hating on Ford but you know what Japanese Car Fans think of Ford. Hopefully a new Tribute will steal some Hyundai Sana Fe, Honda CR-V and Jeep Liberty sales. I hope a new Tribute can do for Mazda what the 3 has done for them.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The only Mazda vehicles that CR gives above average marks for is the Miata, Tribute and the 3. Cr did like the 6 and Rx-8 but they just can't recommend them. They did like the Tribute but can't recommend it because they say the vehicle tips over in government rollover tests. They just discovered that it tips over now? The vehicles has been out since late 2000 and its been 5 years and it took them 5 years to discover this? I don't get that one. Maybe Mazda did too much Nissan-esque cost cutting Renualt era or something. CR always liked Mazda from a reliability standpoint although they have never been a fan of the way the last generation 626 and Protege preformed. They did say both the 3 and 6 are improvements over the Protege and 626 models though. As a matter of fact CR rated the 3 as the best compact car tested.
On a bright spot JD powers conducted a survey on how owners from different brands liked their vehicles. Mazda recorded the largest increase(22 points)of any automaker on the survey. Mazda placed 16th out of 39 brands. The survey brought up points like exterior styling, heating/venolation, and interior quality.
I thought I would never see the day where I like JD Powers better than Consumers. I couldn't believe CR gave the Pontiac Grand Prix an Excellent Reliability rating with the base models. CR doesn't recommend the GP models with the supercharged engine in the Grand Prix though. CR gives a GM car an excellent reliability rating? I thought I would never see the day that that would happen. I don't hate GM or nothing but I just thought I would never see something like that.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
As for the home base thing its a mixed bag the RX-8 and MPV are made in Japan and CR didn't rate them well in reliability. The 6 is made in Ford's plant but still the old 626 got good reliability ratings even when built in that plant. I had a 98 626 that was built out of that plant. You can say the build quality was average. Not horrible but not great great either. I would say build quality of that car was good. The Tribute is made in America while the 3 and Miata are made in Japan so its not an issue with one plant like it was with Nissan's truck plant in Mississippi its an issue with both Mazda US and Japan plants.
Frankly, this pisses me off. Above average in every category with a simple fix available for the one problem that does occur with some frequency adn CR refuses to recommend it. Honda and Acura transmissions fall out of the car and thats OK. I know that the data CR reports comes directly from owners, but what I think this demonstrates is that Honda (and Toyota) owners are so convinced their cars are reliable that they under-report problems.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The MPV has a long history of above industry average reliability and should not, in my humble opinion, have been dropped from the recommended list for a single problem with a single component that the manufacturer has corrected.
If not, possibly there were multiple problems with the MPV transmissions, and the hard shifting condition was the only one you heard about?
Generally they only withhold the check mark on recent models with mostly good scores when the problem area actually makes the vehicle hard or impossible to operate.
I dunno, I don't write for CR. But I do know that the Hondas and Acuras did get covered, although not to all the owners' satisfaction. Did Mazda provide extended warranty coverage for those who have already exceeded the 50K warranty, or is it only on the '04s that there was a problem?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Mazda has aquired alot of new owners in the past few years. The real test for Mazda loyalty will show up in the near future. The new products are getting new people into Mazda's....if they follow up with service, additional and fresh products they should do well in the loyalty area.
Mazda started out in the US with engineering innovation (only mass production Rotary engine) and cars that drove and handled better than the other Japanese brands.
They lost their way, imho, when they tried to be another Toyota--offering everything to everybody.
The last 626 abandoned the concept that Mazda should be a "drivers" car.
They need to get back to marketing their cars based on performance and handling, the zoom-zoom campaign is evidence that they know this. They can become the "reasonably priced performance car" division of the Ford family just as Pontiac was once the performance division of GM.
Another challenge will be upgrading dealer image.
Too many Mazda showrooms share space with Suzuki or Kia or some other cutrate brand. They aren't really big enough or diversified enough to have many standalone Mazda stores outside of huge metro areas, but if they must be sold by multiline dealerships they should get away from the cutrate brands and partner with Volvo, Audi, VW, even BMW dealers--other more sports oriented makes instead of makes people buy because they can't get financing on anything else.
The luxury and near luxury brands have alot of dreamers wandering around their showrooms...once reality sets in, they often buy a car that is perceived as being lower on the food chain.
Also, some folks don't seem to think that the BMW or Audi provides $10K, $20K or $30K more fun driving over a Mazda product.
Mazda's being sold alongside Suzuki and Kia have given them a very much undeserved "bottom feeder" image. The performance and handling of the cars is deserving of better showroommates.
Sharing space with European brands has helped Subaru's image, I think, but they face the same problem as Mazda - more, better, stand-alone dealers are what is needed.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Response to post 1084(norne):
"Brillant marketing move. You suppose people who are coming to buy the BMW, Volvo, and Audi are going to switch at the last minute and buy a Mazda. Keep on dreaming."
Actually I have seen A Mazda dealer in NJ that has used car ads and they had a couple BMW's listed mostly a couple 3 Series from the 02 model year.
And experiences at dealer service plays a big part. The two I frequent do a lot better job than most, I think, though one had gotten pretty bad several years ago.
Mazda is not a luxury brand and they are of no competition to bmw or other luxury brands. Mazda tried to compete with Honda and Toyota and they failed. Mazda is now basically a third rate player competiting for same customers with Hyundai and Mitsubishi.
I am in agreement with nippononly with having more stand alone dealers. Mazda USA is already doing that by encouraging more of their dealers to build more exclusive mazda stores.
Take my '95 Protege for example. Bought new and currently with 177K miles with no major problems. As good or better than competitors like Civic or Corolla. And if you keep the car forever, it is a better value (lower cost per mile) because resale is not important.
I have driven the new 3 and this is a sporty little compact car. Much more exciting than the likes of the Civic or Corolla and better than my 2nd gen. Protege.
Unfortunatly, diluting the quality reputation seems to be an association with Ford.
I can't agree with that at all. Right now Hyundai (Plus Kia) is actually pretty strong, and is really competing with Toyota/Nissan. Mitsubishi is just plain on it's way out, same as Daewoo and Yugo. They're on their last gasps, and their cars ain't that great.
Mazda is pretty much a niche of it's own...the closest competitor is probably Subaru, for the small, Euro-type sport fun-to-drive vehicles.
Mazda competes with VW and Subie now more.
About Mazda's quality its has slipped of late but I don't think it has to do with Ford at all. In the 90's Mazda was still reliable. The new 6, RX-8, and 03-04 MPV have not gotten good reliability ratings by Consumer Reports. The Tribute, 3 and, Miata sill get good ratings.
The 6 it looks CR listed problems with fuel with the 03 6 and there was a fuel cell recall on the 6 so thats covered. They listed body integrity as average for 03 for the 6 so that was probably an issue with sqeauks and rattles. The other issue with the 6 was brakes for the 03 model year. I don't understand for 04 with the 6 CR listed everything with a red bullseye or the circles with the red mark on the top and the same circles with white on the bottom indicating above average reliability for every category so how did they come up with worse than average reliability for the 04 6? I don't understand that one at all. Same with the RX-8 so how did they come up with worse than average reliability? The MPV I understand with the tranny. I also understand the reliability ratings for the 03 6 because of white circles in 3 category's and its only a 2 year old car. CR says they surveyed 04 models that have only 3,000 miles on them and were less than 6 months old so lets wait for next issue to see how the 6 rates in reliability. I think CR will put the 6 back on its recomended list soon. I think the reliability ratings for the 03 6 was more of it being a first year model than anything else. However, I wonder if CR will downgrade the 3's reliability in their next issue because of the A/c issue.
Yes, Mazda does have a very good future in the U.S. The 3 and 6 have proven to be very good competition in this market segment. I have seen so many new Mazda 3's in my area I can't believe it!
I don't know if Mazda will ever be one of the top manufacturers in the US, but I think their future is very bright.
Consumer Reports reliability ratings are based on actual readers commenting on their cars. In other words, it is a "real world" as opposed to a "professional" evaluation. The automotive industry listens to these evaluations. A Big Three auto executive on Autoline -- www.theautolink.com -- a Detroit-based auto show referred to J.D. Power and CR as two key sources of audience feedback to their products. It is important that Mazda stay true to its DNA and keep producing quality products otherwise its customers will let it know. The Big Three have learned the quality lesson in the last number of years; this has resulted in a reduced defect rate to the point that they are approaching Japanese quality. My Protege5 is a superb machine; one can only wish that all car owners could say the same.
Let's support Mazda when they do the right thing and let them know when they need to improve.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
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Interesting, however, I'm not sure the division is so clear. I think many of us try to get to know our cars as much as possible; in one way that's emotional but in another way it's practical. Since many car buyers keep their vehicles for a while (in Canada I think the average is about 7 years) we read up on the latest, test drive the coolest, and save our pennies to get the greatest. After all who wants a long-term attachment that they don't care about or worse that one worries about?
This mix of head and heart is one of the aspects of automotive culture that is hard to deny. We see it in family, friends and others. It's also what the industry tries to market. The balance in the end is personal: hopefully, we avoid the situation where your significant other is practical but leaves you cold and the situation where that cool dude/babe keeps visiting the garage as often as touring the highways.
The wonder is that some vehicles can achieve both emotional and practical ends! And that's why I drive a Mazda P5.
But, of course, that's where personal taste and preferences come in. To me, the P5 doesn't satisfy enough of my emotional side. Its all based on the standards you set for your vehicle. I think Mazda comes close alot of times for me, but it typically comes down to a lack of power. And that's a detail I've learned I can't compromise on if I am to be happy with my car.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Whats wrong a 2.3 liter engine that makes 160 horsepower in the Mazda 3S is a lack of power? I understand your point somewhat the last generation Protege was always scrutinized for a lack of power.
Maybe once they get done with the Mazdaspeed 6 they can do something like that. But I think I read someplace they will be going to work on the next gen Miata after that...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
well, frankly, for me, yes. Don't get me wrong. For the class and its competitors, its pretty good. But, like I said, this is all about stirring MY emotions, and taking more than 7 seconds to get to 60 just doesn't do it. The same goes for the Mazda6s (however, in the case of the 6, a competitor like the Accord is much quicker in terms of acceleration).
The Mazdaspeed6 might definitely be the way to go for me, but the price and limited availability could very well kill the deal. We'll see.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Mazda November U.S. sales down 8.7%
12:29 p.m. 12/01/2004
SAN FRANCISCO (CBS. MW) -- Mazda North American Operations said Wednesday that its November sales were 8. 7 percent lower than last year, totaling 17,618 vehicles. The company's biggest sellers were the Mazda3 and Mazda6 models, at 4,071 and 6,781, respectively.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
a one month dip really means squat in the car business. FYI, MNAO gained a healthy overall 9% in sales from Jan to Nov '04 compared to '03.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
We had quite a few folks take a MZ6 over a MZ3 due to the very strong lease/AVP program on the 6. We see alot of people who want little down and $200 per month. We can't get there on a 3 but the lease/AVP on the MZ6 is there.
About the MZ5...I'm with nippononly. From my standpoint its a low volume product that will have little or no mark up like the MZ3. Mazda can not expect it's dealerbody to expand and build stand alone dealerships with low volume, low profit vehicles. One reason the MPV isnt selling beacuse its not the size of a motorhome...So how many people really want a mini minivan?