Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
As far as this car goes, even Kelly is high, in my opinion. I'd be looking to buy it for closer to Edmund's private party number, which IF the car is loaded up with automatic, moonroof, ABS, CD player, AND its very clean, is $6K. So maybe $6500 would be fair. But I would still double-check with REal World Trade In Values, as suggested earlier.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Your example is silly.
If you buy a can of soup at Kroger and it makes you sick do you blame Kroger or do you blame Campbell's?
Who is RESPONSIBLE for the warranty on your new car? Go look at your sales contract - I bet is specifically says some where in the fine print that the dealership you bought it from is 100% NOT responsible for anything.
In your example of the soup, for instance, you are talking about a problem caused by the manufacturer. Now, if you went to Kroger's to complain and they spit in your face, then THAT's a problem with Kroger's. Thanks for calling my example silly, but can you explain why?
In the case above, the person is upset that the dealership is taking their sweet time in fixing the car. This is a problem with the dealership's service, not the manufacturer. Just like in my "silly" example, the problem is with Home Depot's service, so how does that get blamed on Kohler. Should I call Kohler and demand they stop supplying Home Depot because they treated me poorly and didn't service me to my satisfaction? I COULD, but ....
... Yes, technically, the manufacturer can push a dealership in one direction or another by affecting their allotment, etc. But, from what I understand, it can be a much more complicated process. And, honestly, I see it as potentially causing lawsuits and, not to mention, the dealership is the manufacturers customer, technically, so I believe they treat them more in that regard rather than treating them as a servant of some sort.
And, yes, the manufacturer is responsible for PAYING THE DEALERSHIP for repairs on my new car. The manufacturer is not actually fixing the car. The dealership is contracted by the manufacturer to fix these problems as they occur and the dealership is responsible for making due repairs properly.
If you aren't happy with a dealership, find a different one. Its just that simple.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
So if you get a toilet that will not flush you blame Home Depot? That is - like I said silly.
If you take a can of soup back to Kroger and they spit in your face - that is a problem with Kroger - but the responsibility for the bad soup - that is still Campbell's - and no matter how good or bad the Kroger folks treat you that will not change. It is just a plain simple fact.
Do you understand that Mazda must give its approval before any warranty work can be performed by the dealership? Why - because - as you stated Mazda is paying for it. You seem to be looking at the situation completely backwards.
The reason Mazda is paying for the repair - is because they are responsible for the repair. The dealership is just a tool - a hired hand.
BTW - just because Mazda makes a decision to allow some dealerships to provide crummy service does not get them off the hook - it is still their responsibility.
The customer can fill out a complaint form and send it to Mazda, which will aggregate it with other forms and every quarter or so will discuss the dealership's overall performance. Under extraordinary circumstances MAZDA can fine the dealership or take some other negative action. However, it is the dealership that has the direct control over maintenance and repair services.
My advice: write or call the dealership's general manager and tell him directly what happened. Unless they are making so much money they just don't care (not likely) the repair will be rectified. A disconnect usually occurs between the service manager and the general manager when the service manager knows he screwed up and it is easier to ignore you at that point than do something about it.
Good luck!
This is such a simple thing - I can't understand why it is so hard to understand.
Mazda is responsible for repairing your broken Mazda. Mazda "hires" a dealership to perform the work - but that in no way changes who is responsible for fixing the problem.
Using your logic you should say it is the mechanic's responsibility (not the dealership) after all the mechanic is the one that is actually doing the work on the car. How foolish and silly would that be? If you want to see who is responsible - look at who pays the bill - Mazda pays the dealership - the dealership pays the mechanic.
It is sort of like - you can delegate authority but not responsibility. Mazda delegates the authority to its dealerships to fix broken Mazdas - but the responsibility is still with Mazda.
Once a customer calls / e-mails Mazda and asks for help then Mazda should do something - calling the slow lazy dealership and find out what the problem is - would be a good start - if they don't have any answers - maybe offer to have the car moved to another dealership - how about giving the guy a car to use (sometimes this happens automatically).
If you still have any doubt about who is responsible for the warranty of your car - (in case you don't understand it the warranty is what makes Mazda responsible for repairing your broken car) then go look at your sales contract. I am pretty sure (like I posted before) that some place in your contract it will say that the dealership has no responsibility - EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED (usually in bold type) about your car.
This is a cut and dry issue with customer service at a privately owned establishment. The ONLY practical solution is to find a different privately owned establishment that treats you in a manner you are happier with. Like you, I can't understand why this is so hard to grasp.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
True, and if there isn't one nearby, you decide not to buy those products anymore because the service is lousy. That's what happened to me with Subaru. It doesn't matter how good Subaru products are, if the only way I could get repairs was through a crappy dealer service department, I decided that Subaru is out for me as a vehicle. I think that's why the poster is so frustrated. In more "outlying areas" there isn't always another dealer handy nearby. You don't find out how crummy yours is till after you buy the car, then you're stuck until you decide to get rid of the car because you just can't stand to take it there one more time.
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
When I called Friday to confirm he gave this line about it being a Holiday weekend, he couldn't get the car today...they would get it Tuesday.
When the car died I managed to get it to a dealer, pulled up in front at the curb........ran to the front door to ask where the service enrtance was...a parking agent came out of nowhere and gave me a ticket. I would have been better off leaving the car on the side of the road. My dealer told me the loaner had to come from the dealer that fixes the car so they got off on that too.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Or maybe in a pet cemetery, where many dead horses wind up? :sick:
Meade
Besides, this whole topic was a cemetary (no posts for 3 weeks) prior to this little discussion.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
You say "just because something gets paid for does not mean it is done in a timely fashion"
Maybe I look at things differently - but IMO - the party that is paying for something has the right to ask that it be done correctly and in a reasonable amount of time. Doesn't that seem right to you too? Who is in the best position to ask for something - the party that is PAYING for it would be at the top of MY list - You seem to imply that all Mazda is responsible for is paying for the repair - so all they need to do is write the check. I say wrong - wrong - wrong!!
Now - lets just for a minute assume that YOU are correct. That Mazda has no responsibility for repairing the broken car - other than to pay for it. Even if that was true - (its not BTW) wouldn't any company that has - even a small amount of concern for the people who buy their products WANT TO GET INVOLVED TO HELP their customer? Even if they don't HAVE to they should WANT to.
Now do you understand - or do I need to type slower?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The repair is $1500 and my car is more then 50% paid off. I have many choices what to do with that repair money.
You obviously insist on overlooking the fact that no manufacturer can legally force any privately owned business to do anything they don't want to do. Good luck with your cause. Hope it works out to where you are satisfied.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Mazda has some nice vehicles - that helps for sure - but as far as them having a GOOD future that is hard to predict. The whole auto industry is facing many difficult days ahead. But lets face it - if Ford (or someone) would not have stepped in and saved Mazda they would have went out of business long ago.
Good product is vital - it gets people into the show room and gets them to try a brand that maybe they would not have considered. I am a good example of this. I would have NEVER in a thousand years bought a Protegee - the fact that Mazda is controlled by Ford is also not a positive - but I gave them a chance - because I really liked the combination of things that the Mazda3 offered (handling & performance that are a little bit sporty, good safety features, looks and the price is great) But now that I have seen first hand how little Mazda cares about customers after the sale it would sure be hard to buy a second car from them.
It is like gee35coupe said - "Every automaker needs to be on their toes because the competition is getting rough. Buyer satisfaction is gonna become more and more key to retaining customers"
I have started shopping for a new car - but so far nothing is out that I really want (under $30K anyway) - the new (2006)Lexus IS 250 & Civic are possibilities - but they will not be out for several months. I even considered trading the 2004 Mazda3 in on a 2005 - but it sounds like some of the 2005's have AC problems - I sure don't want to step into a second problem
I am sure Campbell's would not treat a customer as badly as Mazda - anyone think that Campbells would not give a customer their money back if they got a can of soup that was defective? I bet they would give you your money back even if you just did not like the taste.
If you really want to ask me a hard question - put me on the spot - you should ask me - If Mazda is really responsible for repairing problems in the cars they sell then why can't I get them to fix my defective AC system. You could say - that I am living proof that Mazda is not responsible for repairing defective cars. I would have a hard time with this one.
qbrozen- I don't think I ever said that Mazda could or should "force" the dealership to fix the car. Like they could go in and beat up the owner or sue them. That is silly. All I am saying is that Mazda should do something to help the customer. A phone call to the dealership - offer to give the customer a free rental, offer to move the car to another dealership. Simple little things that any good company would do to help someone that just spend thousands of dollars purchasing their product.
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
My dealership here in Richmond, VA, has been so accommodating, I just bought a new Mazda3s hatchback -- my sixth new Mazda vehicle from this dealership since I bought my first one back in September 1992.
Thirteen years. They must be doing something right. Bill, stop bellyaching about your Mazda ... please. All Mazdas aren't bad, and all dealerships aren't bad. Now go buy your Honda and start picking on it.
Meade
Nah. I have over 20 unreturned calls to Ramsey Mazda, Manhattan Mazda both sales and service.
It's a joke,,,,Hyundai does better than this.
Mazda's guideline to the dealers is that a new vehicle that has an issue like this should be repaied in not more than 48 hours. I'm almost at 14 days.
Disgracefull!!!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I do think it's interesting that you had to ask for a loaner car, and after that amount of time. From what I understand from my dealer, Mazda's (not the dealership's, but Mazda's) policy these days is to give you a free loaner for any service done under warranty. Hell, my dealership goes an extra step and offers you a free loaner if you don't want to wait around for an oil change.
There must be other dealers in your highly populated area. I'd call around and share your story with all of them, and then choose the one that does give a damn about you.
Meade
Obviously the difference between a very good & a real bad dealer makes a world of difference - I think we can all agree to that.
But
You would think that one person with a defective AC system would have a "very good dealer" - if the problem was really just MY dealer then I could just go get the defect fixed some place else - RIGHT? But if the problem is Mazda corporate will not approve any work on the defective AC systems - because they know what the real problem is and exactly how much it will cost them to repair it & they have decided to not spend the money to fix the problem. So no matter how great a dealership is if you get a Mazda3 with the defective AC system then you are stuck - because Mazda will not stand behind their cars.
Please someone prove me wrong - It would make me very happy if I had to eat some crow on this - because then I could tell my dealer what they can do to fix my defective AC system.
Does anyone thing an MX-5 coupe would make more sense than the RX-8 which has worse gas mileage and oil consumption that the Miata?
GM seems to be ready to move into consolidation mode by using brand pairing akin to Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura and others. This brand pairing helps the manufacturer to consolidate different models into mass volume models and luxury models. The Mazda/Mazdaspeed pairing is one example. This forces the manufacturer to think through their lineup, remove redundant models, and then brand the model according to the target. The Autoline discussion focussed on the current GM mess and its confusing lineup. GM announced plans to consolidate their lineup into one major pairing: Chevrolet/Cadillac. The Buick Pontiac and GMC brands are being brought together into something called the BPG channel and their future is being worked out. Saab and Saturn are on the periphery and seem to be treated as niche products.
This logic seems to be useful not only for the manufacturer but also for us consumers by forcing clear branding. Cadillac is a wonderful success story and if GM can wrestle the rest of their brands into line many observers of the American autoindustry will breathe a huge sigh of relief. Otherwise, the Japanese (and possibly Chinese) behemoths are ready to step in and show them how. Mazda is a wonderful example of an auto company that is thinking through its future production in an intelligent way.
Mazda and Volvo have actually developed an important role for their "master" (aka FoMoCo). They are developing products and components for the parent company. Since mazda is the hot bed of small car platforms, it should certainly help their own survival.
Unfortunately, mazda might need to pull a Nissan and "supersize" the 6 for sales of that one to take off. Maybe going to a 3 sedan (small/medium/large) set up will help? That, some HP in the 5, a new bigger MPV, the next Escape clone, the new cross-over thingee, should also help.
I think my point is, more product that people want will help sales. They just have to remember their niche of "zoom zoom". Doesn't mean they can't expand into different areas (like larger sedans), they just have to keep that Mazdaness.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Do you mean the US market or the world market? Mazda appears to offer more choices in the European market. Some of the choices (like diesel) may not be avaialble in the USA due to government regulation.
What would you suggest would cover the rest of the market? Bigger trucks? New Millenia?
Then they can "mazda-fy" it and we could have a true sport truck.
Mazda has acquired alot of new mazda owners in the past few years...where do these folks go when they want to move up a bit either in size or class?? The natural progression is the near luxury class....I think this is a category that Mazda could do well. There are alot of Mazda6 owners that will want more down the road and if mazda doesn't have a product for them, they could be lost forever.
Isn't the auto business even MORE competitive now that it was back then?
Does anyone really think Mazda should -
Move into trucks?
Move upscale and introduce cars that compete with Lexus and Acura or Lincoln?
I thought that Ford was using Mazda to fill a hole in their line up - not develop another full line auto company.
I will say that the 929 was a fine car - almost bought one back in 1989 - so I am not saying that they can't develop cars that are competitive - just that they would have a hard time doing it AND making money.
Lets face it - if you move upscale you need to also provide customer service AFTER the sale - something Mazda (as of right now anyway) will not do. If you pay $40+K for a luxury car and it has a defect like an AC system that will not cool the car or brakes that make loud grinding noises or a tranny that shifts harsh - most of your customers will expect these things to be fixed. Hard for me to imagine Mazda competing with Lexus and Acura (I don't know much about Lincoln) in customer service after the sale.
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IMO, Mazda might be the best positioned maker to become a "discount" BMW option, the whole zoom zoom thing. I think they need a sedan for the 6 buyer to step up from, and the new cross over will help also. Not sure that it makes much sense to go after pick ups again, I think that ship has sailed.
A larger MPV makes sense, now that the 5 is here to cover the bottom end of the market.
Performance and unique, sporty vehicles make sense for Mazda.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Our Ford store can sell 1/2 the number of cars our Mazda store sells and they make twice as much profit....
...the dealers are going to want a complete lineup to have as much foot traffic and sales as possible. Ford however (one would assume) doesn't want too much overlap between brands
ford wants as much floor traffic as possible in all their franchises. They all must stand alone on their own... At this point Mazda is very important within the Ford family. They are key to Ford future. Look at all the products coming to Ford, LM, Volvo because of Mazda and their abilities. If the Mazda dealers arent profitable then none of this becomes possible.
Mazda has stated quite a few times they want to cover more of the market and based on their product plan its in the works. This isnt me speculating I'm just stating what Mazda has already said...
Car makers are well aware that dealer profitability is the only way they will be a success....
I live about 2 hours from the dealership and they assured me that should anything happen with the 8 that required keeping it overnight, they would take care of me. I believe that. They didn't sell me the eclipse, but they were equally accommodating when they worked on it. Luckily, both cars have been trouble-free and have not required anything more than routine maintenance!!