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Mazda - Does it have a good future in US?

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  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    Mazda has expectations that each dealer will build a multi million dollar stand alone facility ... This won't happen in large numbers by selling small inexpensive cars ... mazda is bringing in two larger SUV/crossovers in the next year to help with dealer profitability. Our Ford store can sell 1/2 the number of cars our Mazda store sells and they make twice as much profit.

    It's not surprising that a manufacturer wants to widen its presence in the market. How would you compare the methods of BMW, VW, Toyota and GM in grabbing marketshare? BMW seems to be cautiously expanding its premiere position into interesting ventures (the MiniCooper) and a few duds (X5); its dealers are happy because all the models bring in healthy doses of profit. Most manufacturers use the GM method to saturate the market with all sorts of vehicles to get as many potential clients in the door. Unfortunately, GM products for many years were below standard; recently that has been corrected by the Cadillac lineup but the shadow continues to hang over the general. Hence, the arrival of the GM-buster, Toyota. Toyota is moving into many product lines while maintaining its most critical consumer asset: reliability. As the latest Camry recall showed, they are not perfect. At this point they are such a power-house with so much momentum that it is hard to see how they will not become the dominant player. On the other hand, news about VW, owner of Audi and Porsche, seems gloomy. With the value of the euro and the cost of European manufacturing rumours of insolvency are now no longer limited to GM. That would be a shame especially considering the incredible progress of European engineering as seen in the F1 series this year. As to Mazda it seems to have recognized its DNA as sporty performance and value, aka the affordable BMW. Rather than trying to saturate the market like GM or Toyota I hope they continue like BMW to focus on providing excellent machines that are affordable. This formula works not only in the States but the rest of the world which is important considering the largest automarket now seems to be moving from North America to China.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    ...Mazda it seems to have recognized its DNA as sporty performance and value, aka the affordable BMW. Rather than trying to saturate the market like GM or Toyota I hope they continue like BMW to focus on providing excellent machines that are affordable...

    Deciding who and what to be was the first step and it was a good one. Mazda's Zoom Zoom philosophy and marketing really got folks attention. In a flat market Mazda has shown some very positive things. They key is to stay on a roll which isnt so easy. Mazda doesn't need to be the everyone car company like Toyota but they need to keep the fresh and exciting products coming. This will require stretching the product line on some direction. They have done a good job with the niche products like the Speed line which has been good for us and most mazda dealers but it isnt the long term answer to increasing market share.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    They have done a good job with the niche products like the Speed line which has been good for us and most mazda dealers but it isnt the long term answer to increasing market share.

    From a customer perspective: a) the MazdaSpeed line is a well-appreciated step up on the performance ladder similar to Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti; b) coupling exciting performance with fuel efficiency via hybridization seems like another way of generating interesting products. From my perspective, monster trucks and larger SUVs are temporary phenomena that give dealers a false sense of profitability in the short term, these products are not sustainable in the long term. Toyota is pursuing an interesting midterm direction by introducing niche hybrid vehicles at the same time that they continue to dominate the market; imagine the base Corolla and the base Camry in 2010 being hybrids with a fuel rating of 80 to 100mpg; what would the competition do at that point? I hope Mazda is thinking long-term as well as short and mid term.

    Hope your sales register sings this summer!
    :shades:
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    won't Mazda ever get a Tribute version of the Escape Hybrid?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    Basically, Mazda needs to be the Japanese BMW. They need to have a selection of products to fill a wide variety of needs, but not necessarily be a super-lineup like Chevy or Toyota.

    I see the new MX-Crossport being able ot fill the need of a step-up from the 6. Depending on the possible option packages, it can also reach the "near-lux" area.

    The trick is to expand to fill several needs while still remaining focused on the core of their appeal. And if a 3rd row will fit in the tail of the Crossport, that can fill a lot of step-up area. Never mind that it's a sporty SUV, because if the person is a repeat Mazda buyer, they're going to not only know what Mazda is about, but go in expecting the sport aspect to begin with anyway.

    But they've got nothing for the Mazda6 owner who needs to move up to a truck to haul the occasional work stuff. :)
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    "Mazda needs to be the Japanese BMW"

    I think Infiniti is much further along on this than Mazda is.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    you missed the point...mazda is an economical alternative to BMW....there is nothing economical about Infiniti.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    For some reason I thought Mazda is dropping the Tribute altogether.
  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    It would make sense if they did drop the Tribute, since their new CX-7 crossover makes it sort of redundant.

    I also read somewhere, they are considering not offering the next gen MPV in USA since they are not making it an "American" sized van like the Ody, Sienna, Freestyle, Town & Country, etc.... I guess they figure the mini-mini van buyer will want the Mazda 5 anyway.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    I may have been thinking about the report on the MPV.

    It does make sense for Mazda to better order its offerings. Brand continuity seems to be the trend these days.
  • mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    "an economical alternative to BMW."

    That comes very close to being an oxymoron. For BMW, price is well down the list of priorities. For any economical carmaker, price is well up the list.

    I say there's no poor man's BMW currently. Historically, Honda a few years back came closest, with Civic Type R, ITR, ATR. Maybe Honda will give it another try.
  • lhesslhess Member Posts: 379
    like some of the more-informed folks here, but in reference to the future of Mazda in the US, from my limited experience, it should be good. My current mazda purchase, the attention i received, the service with some accessories I have put on it... has been the first time in a long time that I feel really good about the car I got, the price I paid, and the way the dealership consistently treats me. It's probably the very first time that if I were to trade again now or soon, I would feel a need to be brand loyal and purchase another Mazda.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    "That comes very close to being an oxymoron.

    It may sound like an oxymoron but Mazda is doing it! I think audia8Q hit the target here. Mazda is trying to offer the BMW experience to those of us who cannot afford to sell our souls for our cars. Honda is quite different. Honda's aspirations seem to be closer to Toyota in trying to be a multi-purpose solution. BMW does not portray itself as a provider to all but to the discriminating. Mazda is trying to turn that on its head by saying that we can all be discriminating if we are provided with excellent products at a reasonable price. My sense with Mazda is the last thing they need to do is go everywhere, that is to serve a generic market base. They aren't large enough or even in control of their own destiny. Rather, they should keep on doing what they are doing now : building exellence at an affordable price. Bring on the Miata, the RX8, the Mazdaspeed6, the Crossport ...
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    was the Tribute would continue through 2007, with a very uncertain future beyind that. Given that the CX-7 is now on its way in a year or so, why would Mazda want to continue the Tribute?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    They could continue it because of price.....The CX-7 is going to be thousands more than the Tribute. Remember the Tribute is currently rolling with $3000-4000 in incentives depending on the region....take that off the MSRP price and the CX-7 could be $10K more than the Tribute....
  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    I'm not clear how large the CX-7 is. If it's clearly bigger than the Tribute, maybe there is room for both in the lineup? Maybe a next-gen Tribute called the CX-5. (I assume the CX-7 has a 3rd row of seats, 7 passenger, hence the name.)
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    There is some question as to the seating layout in the CX-7. The CX is larger than the Tribute but not as big as an Explorer. Think Murano size. According to Mazda they are going to offer a third SUV that is supposedly going to have a third seat. Perhaps the next generation Explorer??....so things are a little up in the air at this point.
  • richmlrichml Member Posts: 156
    My wife saw the CX-7 (then Crossport) at the NY Auto Show. If she could, she'd trade her Tribute (which she loves) in today for a CX-7.

    Has Mazda definitively stated what the powerplant(s) of the CX-7 will be?
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    no final word yet....I have heard all kinds of things. everything from a 4 cyl turbo to a higher hp version of the 3.0 v6 or even the new 3.5l v6 that ford is working on. We will have to wait and see....

    What would be your ideal engine?? my dream engine would be the 3.9 V8 that is found in the Lincoln LS.
  • groovypippingroovypippin Member Posts: 264
    Here is what I've heard:

    The Mazda Tribute will continue for at least a year or two beside the CX-7. A hybrid version been greenlighted (no pun intended) for Mazda.

    A four cylinder turbo engine is a possbility for the CX-7, but not confirmed.

    A larger crossover, based on the Lincoln Aviator (likely called the CX-9) will follow soon after the debut of the CX-7.

    The new Mazda MPV will likely not be imported into North America because it is not going to be gigantic.

    The Mazda2 has been greenlighted for Canada and perhaps North America. (I would prefer the Verisa, which is a hot little car).

    The next gen Mazda6 will ride on a modified version of Fusion Platform (itself a modified version of the Mazda6 platform) and thus will grow in size. The wagon and the hatch will be dropped. This will be a NA-only version.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    it was a guarantee that if they offered BOTH a hatch AND a wagon, neither would make big sales, and now as a result they are dropping both. They should have done just one (probably just the wagon) from the beginning - then its sales would have been enough to continue for the next gen. :-(

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    If it's larger than the Tribute, I think a V6 is appropriate - either 3.0L or 3.5L.... We had this discussion earlier in this thread -just IMO, I'd rather have a normally aspirated engine in a "family" type vehicle - save the turbos for the Miata and RX-8s of the world.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    They poster the RX-8 one year test recap.

    Along with the oft mentioned rotary issues - poor cold start, incredible oil use - they also had frequent software issues, warped brake rotors, catalytic converter and wire harness problems and a tire blow out that ruined the wheel as well at less than 10k miles. (I've heard Michigan roads really stink, so this may not be a Mazda issue)

    I hope the new Miata does not borrow any of the problem pieces from the RX-8.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    it has been sounding for a LONG time like the RX-8s are just as temperamental little beasties as the old RX-7s were. I remember on mine if you started it up cold and then shut it down within a couple of minutes, it would flood every time, and THIS WAS NOT A MECHANICAL DEFECT, but rather a design flaw!!! RX-7 owners had a trick which I used sometimes, forget what it was now, to clear the rotors and get it to start again. It wasn't easy, and involved going under the hood, I remember that.

    But oh, the joy of driving a rotary. There is nothing quite like it. And for all the bad stuff the long term reviews of the RX-8 have been saying in the mainstream automotive press, they all still love the car on its own merits, just hate the hassles.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Remember, that was just a concept. The production model could be a lot bigger, who knows at this point. I think the production model is supposed to debut in Detroit next Jan, so we should hopefully start seeing spy shots in November.

    I do not think the MX-Crossport had a 3rd row, but again it was just a concept.

    Mazda does have the 2.3 turbo that'll be in the MazdaSpeed and 6, but IMO the 3.5l Duratec would be better suited to its weight and size, particularly if it does get that 3rd row.

    MX-5 will be reliable, I'd bet on it. The engine is based on the already-reliable Mazda3 2.0l powertrain.

    -juice
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    I got a couple things from mazda today...

    1. the 2007 mazdaSpeed will be the 3
    2. the 2007 MZ6 will be larger than the current altima

    I wish I could get more details on upcoming products but they are doing their best to keep stuff secret.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I got an e-mail about the MazdaSpeed 6, when are those supposed to be in dealers?

    So will it be a 1 year run, then they switch to MazdaSpeed 3 production for MY2007?

    I'm not sure I'd want to see the 6 grow that big. I'd almost prefer to see them add a Mazda8. :-)

    -juice
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,338
    Not sure if Mazda can handle it, but a bigger 6 (think of it replacing the old Millenia), allows the 3 to be more upscale without cutting into 6 sales, and also, maybe, something new to slot in under the 3.

    maybe it will be a repay from Ford: they can get a shortened 500 platform to be the new "8"

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    2007 mazdaSpeed will be the 3
    Details about the drivetrain (AWD/FWD) and key specs (HP, torque, weight) would be appreciated ... thanks for the news, Rich!
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    autonomous...I would like to know the details also...but I will post details as I get them...

    ateixeira....all speed cars are one year or one and a half year runs...Mazda is planning an October Launch for the speed6

    stickguy....I think you might be on to something. VW has moved the Jetta up the foodchain a bit so maybe mazda is thinking along the same lines....I think a pricier 6 allows them to expand the 3 line a bit.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The 6 is right-sized, I like it just fine. If it goes bigger than an Altima, there would be a huge gap between it and the 3, which is a little on the small side.

    Mazda could actually make a Five Hundred a little more exciting, but I'd still like to see 3 sedans in the lineup.

    Nissan has 3 (Sentra, Altima, Maxima) and so does Toyota (Corolla, Camry, Avalon).

    -juice
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    But when you drive the car, you find it lacking in power compared to it's much cheaper rival. It is a tough match for that funny sounding 5 cylinder. I don't think there will be many sold anywhere near MSRP.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    do you think the new jetta is a 'redo' of the old audi 5000?
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    The car actually drives fine. And if you ignore the price, it's really a very nice car even in base form. It's just too expensive for what you get. I think the marketplace is spelling that out. I've only seen one on the road. may have been a demo though. It was on the same road that I test drove. They had a loaded black one on the lot with a few accessories that costed $31k. It's a nice car but darn. I'll stick with the Mazda3 thank you. There's no amount of chassis rigidity worth $10k.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    IMO the only 2006 Jetta worth looking at will be the GLI 2.0T ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, the 2.0FSI should at least be interesting. Price is way high on the Jettas. Mazda3 is more competitively priced, but it would help if Mazda made improvements to the safety scores.

    -juice
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    But the price...Might be downright scary.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    the '06 Civic EX will come in at the same power-to-weight ratio as the Jetta GLI, for about $8000 less or something like that. Not to mention, giving the Mazda3s a good run for its money! :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Jetta sort of left the segment, moved up to try to compete with the TSX. But 150hp isn't sufficient to do that.

    Mazda3 is fine where it is IMO.

    -juice
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    But 200hp is.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yep, the FSI engine can hold its own in that segment.

    -juice
  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    But at what price?...... I bet the TSX will be thousands less, for just one example.... I agree with whoever above said, the Jetta isn't really a bad car, just way overpriced for what you get...

    (sort of getting off the Mazda topic......)
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    At least the prices people say they are paying for them in the TSX forum.
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    actually, the Mazda3 is only fine depending on definition.

    According to me it's fine. But that's because I just checked and found out that my Mazda3 is now worth more money than I paid for it....I'm not kidding. According to Edmunds, right now, my 2004 Velocity Red 5 door sells for $20,100 as a certified used vehicle. I paid $19,500. Holy cow.

    Of course, this also means Mazda simply can't make enough to keep up with demand. As mentioned on other threads, there just aren't enough 2005 models laying around to last until the 2006 models arrive. Of course, that means that those of us who financed our 04 and 05 vehicles might be able to sell them and make a profit, who knows?

    Not that I'd part with my 3, mind you, but it's a thought :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good to hear demand is strong, keep in mind it varies a lot by region. I doubt that's the case in the DC area.

    -juice
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    MSRP on the base 2006 GLI is $24400 including destination. If you load it up it could be more than the TSX.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Yep, and that's for the basic 2.5L 150hp version - the one with the "upmarket" engine will definitely be more than a TSX...no wonder they aren't selling

    No, the base price I posted ($24400) is for the GLI 2.0T. There is no GLI 2.5.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I have to pay $24K for a 2.5 with package 1 (just to get the stupid alloys), but for $400 more I get the GLI with standard alloys and the faster engine? Something sounds VERY fishy here...

    I read something the other day saying that the Mazda3 has been the most successful model (on a global basis) in the company's history. Apparently the U.S. is the SLOWEST market for this model. Wonder how much that statement was just hype and how much it was for real.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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