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That is contradicted by this discussion; obviously several people here think that Mazda could extend itself into the luxury arena. Let's be clear that no one is advocating that Mazda abandon its current efforts to make premium-value cars; we are just trying to assume the next trend. Several years ago, who of us would have predicted an SUV being built by Porsche and yet the Cayenne has turned out to be a remarkable success. Mazda is obviously trying out new things, witness the CX-7, and a dealer posting here noted the need for an upscale Mazda. Perhaps the Acura RL is too far up the ladder for some to imagine Mazda climbing, so perhaps we can all agree that Mazda building its own Maxima or TL would not be so outlandish. Personally, I was hoping for more development in the hybrid or fuel cell arena, and perhaps the two will converge: imagine a Mazda9 with better fuel efficiency than a Prius, more power than a TL, priced like a Maxima, and with Mazda's good looks and style.
p.s. Bonus points for anyone who predicts the next ad-campaign by Mazda; the zoom-zoom byline has started to wear thin and needs new threads
I don't understand why this is so hard to understand.
Sure Porsche built an "SUV" (the Cayenne) but it is still a Porsche - its not like they came out with a Suburban or Sequoia. It fits the image of Porsche.
What image comes to mind when you think Mazda? Is it Luxury car?
Now without making this to complex - How many Cayennes does Porsche need to sell to make a boat full of money? How many Mazda9's would need to be sold to get the same return? I bet the profit per vehicle on the Cayenne is 15 - 20 times more than Mazda would ever make on a Mazda9 - even if you play the - its not profit per car - but the % - the Cayenne would be WAY higher.
But why?
Name 10 SUV's that compete with the Cayenne - hard to do isn't it?
Can anyone name 10 cars that would compete with the Mazda9? I bet we all could.
Mazda seems to have carved out a nice little market position with cars like the Mazda3 & Mazda6 - practical yet still fun to drive (ZOOM ZOOM) right next to - but not directly on top of the big boys - Toyota and Honda. This is where second level auto companies like Mazda need to be in order to survive.
Mazda compete with the TL?
Even Acura is having a hard time in this market segment - bringing a front drive car to this segment is like bringing a knife to a gun fight.
As far as the Maxima goes - that really changes the discussion - because I don't think VERY MANY people (maybe a few worm eaters) think of the Maxima as a luxury performance car. Wouldn't that be the G35's segment?
I would agree that Nissan (with the Maxima) is trying to be close to - but not directly on top of the Camry - similar to the Mazda strategy.
We have pre-sold more Mazda6Speed's than any of the other Speed cars and they have almost all been non-previous mazda owners. Most of the other Speed cars we sold were to current or previous Mazda owners.
so there is something about the MZ6Speed that is attracting new folks to Mazda.
I think the discussion is starting to change - from should Mazda bring out a full size performance luxury car - to - should Mazda make a car that "fits the Mazda image" but is larger than the Mazda6.
As long as we all understand that is not what Mazda was trying to do with the Millenia (spelling?)
Maybe that could work.
I'm thinking of something more like a direct competitor to a Maxima, TL, even the Avalon to some extent, more like $28-35K.
The key is, Ford already has the platform, so the investment wouldn't be like starting from a clean sheet.
According to CR at least the 3 has been reliable. The 6 less so.
-juice
Mazda will add the CX7 just as Subaru added the Tribeca, but not everyone wants an SUV. A large sedan could fill the void for both of them.
-juice
Reminds me of the marketing staff at my old company - they always wanted me to produce something better than the competition - but wanted to sell it for a lot less than the competition was charging. Hard to do -
It's too wide a range to cover. The 6 starts in the mid to high teens and carries a stigma with it up in higher price segments.
-juice
Look at the competition listed for that class. Great cars, yes. But not many of them has the sporty persona that Mazda has.
-juice
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The 5 is nice for what it is, it's not a full-blown minivan but a small people mover with a manual trans available. So far it's been selling well AFAIK.
-juice
I would guess it is small compared to the number of cars in the Mazda3 - Mazda6 size class.
Then you need to determine what % Mazda can steal away from the competition - not counting the cars they steal away from themselves - why spend $500 million to get someone to switch from Volvo to Mazda? Although it is better to take sales away from a related company rather than let someone else steal them.
Is that enough cars to justify the cost - don't know - but a company can only work on so many big projects - what would Mazda drop so they can switch the focus to a large car - real hard to tell that.
If you were the decision maker at Mazda (Ford) would you push the redesign of the Mazda3 from 2008 (guess) to 2010 so you could put a large car in the line up?
I think they would be better off keeping the Mazda3 and Mazda6 competitive.
I
I agree that the market isnt as stong as the market for the MZ3 but a higher priced product allows the company to make alot more profit per unit than the MZ3....so they don't have to sell nearly as many to ring the bell....so from a profitability standpoint higher margin cars can really be a huge benefit to the company and dealers. example...ford barely breaks even on the Focus line but products like the Navigator, Expedition, Explorers, etc...fills up the till to the tune of $10,000-$15,000 per unit....
Yeah, I noticed this, and it is true apparently - I had a friend test drive a V-6 Camry SE and the new Avalon and declare the Avalon to be noticeably more sporty. Wow. I have to go try one. Not to mention the Maxima with sport package is a pretty tight ride. Totally overpriced at $32-34K sticker, but sporty competition for this hypothetical Mazda9.
If Mazda wants to make a step-up sedan for people coming out of a Mazda6, and keep the zoom zoom in, it is going to have to do it with lots of Ford stuff, to keep the sticker in the mid-$20Ks. It just won't sell if it gets up near $30K - look at Maxima sales, in the crapper. And the AWD would be a VERY good idea.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The Duratec 3.5L. I doubt Mazda will make a Mazda9 with that engine and AWD though, since that's what the Lincoln Zephyr is supposed to have. The engine is supposed to make between 240-270 hp depending on the application.
This is from a UAW website regarding the duratec 3.5:
The tentative applications for our New Engine will be:
A Mazda passenger car built in Japan
The Lincoln Zephyr
A new mid-sized SUV
A Lincoln Crossover vehicle
A new Ford minivan
And of course, the Ford 500, Ford Freestyle and Mercury Montego
http://www.uawlocal1250.org/leaflets/ep1/ep1_060805.htm
Thought some would be interested in this very opinionated article from Forbes. Apparently Mazda is a dissapointment and not much better than Mitsubishi it seems. Heh.. This is coming from a guy who probably drives a $50k+ automobile from some automaker in Germany, give me a break.
An article from Jerry Flint from Forbes on "The Leak in Japan's Titanic"
Leak in Japan's Titanic
Here's the excerpt concerning Mazda.
"Mazda, which is controlled by Ford (nyse: F - news - people ) but run independently in the U.S., is a disappointment. Its small Mazda3 and the family-sized Mazda6 are top-rated by most testers. And who doesn't love its MX-5 Miata, the first low priced post-British roadster? But Mazda never grows. The company has some of the same problems as Mitsubishi in trying to distinguish itself against Toyota and Honda.
The Mazda6, for example, is just a bit too small, and it probably doesn't help that its biggest engine is Ford's unremarkable V-6--a close relative of the motor in the Ford Taurus. Mazda doesn't have any SUVs or pickups of its own, and it also has a weak dealer force. The good news: new SUVs and sportier versions of the Mazda6 and Mazda3 are in the works."
Good find, Todd!
The text also mentions a date and says "the new Duratec 3.5 liter Engine for Cleveland Engine Plant #1 ... Due to vehicle freshening issues, Cleveland Engine Plant #1’s new Job 1 date will be moved from December of 2006 to April of 2007." I wonder if this date coincides with a new engine destined for a larger Mazda6 or our mythic Mazda9?
Maz has the engineering to produce a great FWD premium car, like TL, but like Millenia and 929, I doubt it can be a success. The field is very crowded, with 3 Japanese and even more Europeans. The Japanese all have better dealerships, more money, more name recognition than Mazda. So to create any buzz at all, Maz9 will have to be demonstrably better. Can anyone be vastly better than Toyota, Nissan and Honda?
Even if Mazda can come up with such a product, it will also appear as Ford, Mercury and Lincoln, reducing the buzz and its value.
And don't aim so high with sales volume. Plan on maybe 50k/year, something like that.
The tranny is a catch - they'll need a 5 speed manual. Maxima has one. That should not take up too many development costs.
I'm surprised they'll build it in Japan, though. That will require some investment.
-juice
-juice
I agree there is overlap with the 6 wagon (which is being discontinued along with the hatch in a year or so, so only sedan will be offered.); however, a 6-seater offers the crucial 3rd row.
Turns out that the owner of the Mazda dealership in North Augusta, SC bought them out. The other dealership is farther away - but not too much farther. More distance but same time to drive there. BUT the Mazda dealership is moving into a soon-to-be-vacated Honda dealership that is moving to a brand new location across town.
Mazda approved of the deal, but it looks like a backwards step. The new location is closer to the military base here and it is a larger location. Maybe more volume will allow them to carry a wider variety of cars.
Also, looked at their only Mazda 5. It had $900 of Mop-n-Glo but I like the car more than when I saw it at the Atlanta Autoshow in the spring.
-The Grinman
BTW - absolutely _love_ the decision to bring the 5 over here...
What I would call good customer service:
* Low variance in sales price (less than $500) for identical cars, but sold to different customers (no haggle price). * Offers testdrives eagerly. * Technical: can compare own car to competing car * Accuracy: handles warranty services according to manufacturers specs.
Bad service/turnoffs
* Ripoff: you buy a new car, but found out a week later that your friend got the exactly same car for $1000 less. * Wearout: Salesperson prefers to chit chats with his buddies, while customer is waiting (with 6 months baby) * Salesperson does not know when first oilchange is due, or what oil is in the car when sold * more than 1 hour in the dealership.
My own experience is that salespeople do not appear to be wery knowleadgeable about the cars they try to sell. You probably have done more research yourself, to get best value. On the other hand, the car salesperson does this for living, so he or she should know better. Imagine months after months, the same cars in the lot. It wouldn't take long to learn them all - one would think?
Before purchase: getting the right price. After purchase: warranty repairs are to most important issue.
engines are good in today standards. But could have more economical ones in the future (I miss hybrid drive trains.... the drivetrain will decide about a car.. sometime a gallon of gas might be 3$, or even more)
No offense, but IMHO, that's a bunch of bull doo. You can try and rationalize it, but the fact is that, generally speaking, the Japanese car dealers provide less service than the domestics. Here's a different way to rationalize it - generally speaking, the imports don't try as hard because the product sells itself. People want the product, so they (barely) tolerate the service.
I like my rationalization better.
Where did you see a $24,000 Mazda3 sedan???
My 2005 Mazda3S hatchback was under $17,000. The sedan is cheaper than that. Loaded, maybe about $20K with every available option. But never $24K.
Meade
Not really.
Edmunds lists the MSRP for the Mazda3 from U$14,240 to U$19,245. Where did you see a $24,000 price tag for a Mazda3?