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Remember, the MAzda5 is brand new. Right now it's hard to find the color/options you might want even as an automatic! I for one am going to wait until there are more than 10-15 Mazda5s available in my entire state before I criticize Mazda for not having enough manuals available...
It took some effort to find a manual Forester way back in 1998 also.
-juice
There are big rebates on the Tribute i right now...does my dealer have any in stock? No.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I've seen pics of it online and it doesn't appear to be much bigger than the '93 Mercury Villager my father had.
Meade
Hard to imagine that they could misjudge the demnd for MT 3s so badly, and still not catch up. Plus, running almost completely out of cars 2 months before the next model year shows up ain't going to help sales any (although the fire probably didn't help much). Souds like they need more capacity in Japan, or a plant elsewhere to make the popular stuff.
I can't imangine Toyota turning away customers because they can't build enough Corollas to meet demand!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
http://www.mazda.com/publicity/release/200506/0628e.html
Meade
Does anyone agree with the above statement?
I thought Mazda was the sporty brand, you know Zoom Zoom and all.
How could the become the premium brand when they have nothing in the pipeline that even remotely could be called premium. The 9 would be the closest thing and they have not made a commitment to build it yet.
I say stay with being the sporty brand, it seems to be working for them right now.
MPV, and especially the new 5, are oriented to the active/younger couples and families with small kids, so again younger.
Maybe young = sporty in the car biz (or I guess it's the other way around.
I agree, stay with sporty/cool, they wil get slaughtered by the big boys if they try to go too premium, although certainly they can add a top end model (above the 6).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
VW did this and they are in dire straits. Sales are down and fixed costs are up, noone even understands the Phaeton. They have all these new products and sales are still way down.
Subaru is doing it, to a lesser extent, and it's been a bear. They did manage to get sales and price levels up, but they're still losing money. Ironically they were profiting just fine before the premium push.
I don't see Mazda going Premium at all. FWD is not seen as premium, and that's basically all they have. Plus Volvo limits what they could do, and even Volvo is arguably only a 2nd Tier premium make.
No way, no how. Bad idea.
Keep the Zoom Zoom. Leave premium up to Volvo.
-juice
It takes much more than a "premium car" to make a brand premium. Mazda would have a hard time developing that image - things like after the sale support would need to be completely changed.
Plus why abandon the ZOOM ZOOM image that they have carved out.
FWD sportiness can only take you so far. Acura has already explored the limits of that voyage. I can't see Mazda out-Acuraing Acura or out-Volvoing Volvo any time soon.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If Mazda is grooming itself to be anything, I think it is to be a value brand which caters to a niche of the car-buying market that appreciates driving dynamics and decent reliability over luxury or all-out economy. The Mazdaspeed 3 and 6 models are proof of that. If Mazda is going to have a good future in the US, then they need to continue with this approach and not stray into premium territory.
I'm not much of a VW fan, but it doesn't look like their efforts to become a premium brand have paid off. Where is the Phaeton, anyway? And for what it's worth, I am disappointed with Subaru's push to move up-market. I'd rather see Sube focus on performance at a value price than try to compete with the Europeans for the entry-lux market.
If sales and service are so low, how does Mazda end up selling the most popular sports car and other pricey models? I would think the current drivers of Miatas and RX8s would appreciate a premium Mazda vehicle comparable to the RL if they were looking for a premium sedan. I have not noticed a markedly different experience going to an Acura or Mazda dealership; perhaps the dealerships I'm visiting are exceptions or exceptional. Let me reiterate though that I would prefer that Mazda move on the performance hybrid front before Toyota and Honda dominate this growing part of the market.
The only thing that has changed since Mazda tried and miserably failed to sell Millenias, is that the market has become even MORE competitive.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
But the Millenia that resulted from it was never a sales success. Plus resale values on those was poor, I remember seeing used bargains all over.
Do a long wheelbase version of the 6, maybe call it 6L or something. Keep is sporty, though. Maybe AWD since they have that in the MazdaSpeed parts bin.
-juice
BMW has the 3 series , 5 series and 7. Why can't Mazda have the 3,6 and 9?
It seems to be working for BMW, just don't get Bangle to design it.
Why not? They could use the Volvo P2 platform, only don't make it boring like the Five Hundred.
-juice
Many companies get in financial trouble trying to stretch into areas that they think look good - but end up being all wrong. I don't need to go very far to find an example - look at what Mazda did to itself trying to be a full line company - they were going out of business - they had no chance of making it - if it wasn't for Ford and a big pile of cash Mazda would be long gone.
If Mazda wants to spend a few hundred million developing a premium car (this low investment means they are just doing a rebadge) - how do the guys over at Jag, Lincoln and Volvo feel about that? They all go to the same place to get the $ to do these projects. I am sure Ford would say - sure why not - and while we are throwing money down the drain lets also develop some front wheel drive economy cars to sell at Lincoln & Jag.
Not going to happen even in good times - I would guess if any Mazda exec was dumb enough to bring this up in todays auto environment they would get fired.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2. Zoom Zoom IS working, so why mess with it?
End of discussion.
Sorry, I got a little off track. The point is, car companies risk losing more when they try to be something they are not. Maybe I should say is What the public thinks they are not. When Mazda and Nissan dumped the RX-7 and 300ZX back in the 90's, I thought their public images took a severe beating. I love the Miata, but I don't think that it's a good top of the line image sports car. Nissan was worse, with the Maxima having to carry the sports cars banner for Nissan.
Mazda is the sportier alternative to Toyota and Honda. That's where they need to stay. You could possibly expand the lineup up by adding another sedan (Maxima competitor), but not much more. The competition should be Toyota/Honda/Nissan, not Lexus/Acura/Infiniti.
Before everyone jumps into the deep end (and I might be too late), do we really know that this is what Mazda is going to try to do? Do we have any documentation from Mazda on this subject, or just conjecture from some unknown source (like a generic observation from the media for example)?
Meade
Do I believe that Mazda might go upscale? No, not for a minute, it would be disastrous for them. But its great to let them know(in case Mazda reads this) how stupid it would be.
-juice
-juice
All they need to do is produce cars that have 75% or more of the performance at 50% or less of the price. Many people (even ones that have the cash) would rather buy a new Mazda3 - write a check for $20K get a fully loaded fun to drive car - rather than pay $40+k to buy a 3 Series even though it rides better - handles better - goes faster and has a much larger WOW factor - as in Joe bought a BMW!
Mazda must produce VALUE. I may be off a little on the % - maybe its 80% of the performance for 55% of the cost - but that is the only way Mazda will compete with these companies.
Why not develop a car that can go head to head with BMW Acura and Lexus? Because then in order to make any money they would need to charge almost the same price. If the performance and money are even Mazda can not compete. This is because the Mazda brand means sporty fun low cost (for what you get) cars - if you take out the low cost part they will have no customers.
If you're looking for competitive value, I like the example of the new Sonata against the Camry/Accord, or the Passat against the A4.
OTOH, our hypothetical 9 sedan could compete, in value, with the TL, ES, IS, G35, 325, or A4 2.0. I think a more likely scenario would be direct competition against the Avalon or Maxima. A step above 6 vs Camry vs Altima.
whipped95's post got me wondering what type of car-shopper the Mazdaspeed6 would appeal to. Do you really think it will attract new customers to the Mazda nameplate? I think I'm interested in it first of all because I've liked the Mazda cars I've owned, and I consider myself somewhat "loyal" to the brand. Secondly, I like the idea of having something "special", like a limited edition car.
I guess I just don't see this car appealing to someone who hasn't owned or thought of owning a Mazda before. There is so much competition in the $30k arena, and I don't see where the MZSPD6 really stands out from the crowd. 274 HP? The TL and G35 match or beat that. AWD? Look to Subaru or the G35. And the list could go on...
It definitely appeals to me, and I'm happy to see Mazda heading in that direction with the SPEED versions of the 3, 5, 6 and 8. Hopefully it will solidify Mazda as a value brand for the enthusiast.
Can Mazda compete with these companies? Sure they can no problem - in fact you could say they are doing it now even though they are not even in the same class. All they need to do is produce cars that have 75% or more of the performance at 50% or less of the price.
I would continue z71bill's line of reasoning and say that Mazda is already creating a "premium" small car. The Mazda3 has raised the bar for an "entry" vehicle by packing an excellent assortment of features to elevate the affordable econobox to unexpectedly new heights of performance and style. It is this combination of performance, cost and style that makes Mazda unique. Think of what the Miata did in the sports car world; it changed the equation: no longer did you need to spend the big bucks to get a fun roadster, no longer did you have to worry about reliability like their original English models, no longer did you have to be in a niche market to enjoy an interesting ride. Miata helped start a whole new trend in the industry: the retro revival. I would subtitle the Miata, the "premium" roadster.
Mazda has in its marketing literature referred to its competition, including BMW, as a target for its development. Targetting the BWM 5 or the Acura RL to create a new flagship for the Mazda line does not seem outlandish but rather a natural direction after the Mazdaspeed 6 breaks into the marketplace. To meet its competition, it will need to match their performance (300+ hp?), value ($40K) and style (Bangle-free). I can hardly wait to see what happens.
Imitation is the greatest form of flattery, they say. I think that Mazda (and Scion) are shooting for the moon with their BMW 3-Series comparisons (both Scion and Mazda said that the 3 and tC were to perfrom like a BMW 3 to some extent.)
929 wouldn't be too hard. A flagship is always a must. What car company doesn't have one?
Why would the company that wants to have ZOOM ZOOM as its brand image want a luxury car as its flagship? They would not.
Why did Mazda drop the 929? Because it did not fit the brand image that they wanted to develop.
What is the chance Mazda will develop a Mazda9 premium luxury car? ZERO.
Not going to happen even in good times - I would guess if any Mazda exec was dumb enough to bring this up in todays auto environment they would get fired.
Hmmm, isn't there an upcoming entry-level Lincoln based on the 6 platform?
As for Jaguar, it had a FWD X-type, based on the "lowly" Ford Mondeo/Contour for years now.
OT, the car that is the object of her affections? The Mazda 6! I don't even think she ever drove one (not sure about the Accord), so it is purely based on style/image.
I told her to look at it, since it is a reasonable alternative (and probably cheaper, with some more goodies to boot).
I also recommended looking at the 3, which I personally like much better than the 6.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Because it wasn't selling.
I bet the Lincoln will - LOOK like a Lincoln - RIDE and HANDLE like a Lincoln and be PRICED like a Lincoln. I have no problem with sharing platforms - it saves money - but a brand needs to stand for something -
You are not trying to tell me that Lincoln is going to slap a badge on the Mazda6 are you?
BTW - same thing with the JAG -
mazda6s - Why wasn't it selling - because NO ONE thinks of Mazda as a luxury brand - it just does not fit - that is why they will not try to go upscale into the premium luxury area.
You're absolutely right!