Chevy Uplander/Pontiac Montana SV6/Saturn Relay/Buick Terraza

dindak

I agree.. no excuse. Hopefully it will be added.

Still would not pay the money they want for the feature, especially in a truck / van.

jchan2

I'd pay $350 for side curtains in any car, but Honda will make them standard in a few years anyways, so I guess I'll wait or I'll pay the extra $$$ to buy SABs on a different car.

dindak

Big problem is it's not $350 (at least it's not here on the vehicles I have seen). Many of cars have it bundled into higher end models, "safety packages" or other similar packages such that it adds C$1000 +++ to the price.

jchan2

sounds like Toyota. To get VSC on a Sienna, you have to buy a bunch of other junk. At least Honda will make it standard on almost their whole product line by 2006.

alpha01

(Toyota's second generation VSC) on the Sienna as standard when Honda puts their version on the Ody. Don't forget, Toyota is the only non-lux automaker to have VSC STANDARD on all of its SUVs, even the $19,120 RAV4 FWD.

Also, the cost of side impact protection will only go down from here, as more and more customers start demanding it. This will likely co-incide with the IIHS implementation of their new dynamic side impact test, which will undoubtedbly be broadcast in typical dramatic fashion on Dateline NBC.

(As automakers make deals with suppliers for more side SRS systems, cost will go down.) This can be seen, for example, with ABS- the first Camrys with ABS had that option around 1992, and it was priced at $1220 on 4 cylinder models. Thats NON INFLATION ADJ., and an amount that made it a somewhat unpopular option back then. Now, its $300 on the Camry, standard on the Accord.

~alpha

dindak

If the side impact bags ware available for $300-400 and available on their own, I would likely consider it.

theo2709

Tell that to Mazda.

alpha01

Side Airbags and Side Curtinas Available for $300 or so on EX 4s.

~alpha

dindak

I'm shopping for a van / SUV though.

Kirstie_H

I saw the Relay version of this van over the weekend at the auto show (I have some photos that I can post if I find a place to host them). I tried to like it, but couldn't figure out who the design was supposed to appeal to.

dindak

The Relay just does not have a Saturn look to it at all. The Terazza looks like a Buick but the Relay is just a rebadged Chevy. It's too bad, they could have done better for sure.

theo2709

Imagestation is free and they have unlimited storage.

rctennis3811

I would've preferred Buick put their new "truck"-ish styling onto the Terraza. The oval grill and connecting headlamps are much better looking.

Dindak was right: the Relay is a rebadged Uplander except for the fact that the Uplander has another grill below the current grill allowing Chevy to place their bowtie in the space between the two.

Does anyone know if the Uplander will have wood trim like the Relay and the Terraza? I bet the Montana SV6 gets brushed aluminum trim though.

dindak

If I was to buy I would get the Chevy over the Saturn. I like my dealer and I'll bet the Chev will look better. You are probably right about the brushed aluminum but who knows. These vans are all too similar. Only hope is the Montana as the Chevy will clearly be like the Relay.

jchan2

don't bet on it, after how similar the Relay and Uplander looked in that picture that leaked out.

Kirstie_H

theo2709, thanks for the tip. I'll get all of my photos from the show loaded up tomorrow (hopefully!).

montanafan

Montana SV6 will debut next weekend at the Chicago Auto Show. If follows normal timetable, press releases should be out day or two earlier.

dindak

If I don't like it, I may very well go for a 04 Montana. Deals will be unreal and I like the look of the current model. I noticed they come with a 5 year no deductible power train warranty in Canada this year also!

bigdaddycoats

http://fleetnews.gmcanada.com/news_flash/en/production_schedules.- html

bigdaddycoats

If you look at the earlier link I posted it looks like the Venture and Montana will have 05 models? Can that be right?

Kirstie_H

This is the Saturn version at the auto show - kind of a funky color. It was roped off, so we couldn't get inside.

dindak

Thanx for the pics!

I will see them all in a few weeks when they come to Toronto. I will try and take some pics also.

Kirstie_H

Maybe they'll let you actually touch it.

ateixeira

2nd row looks a little higher than the first.

-juice

badgerfan

Does that picture show the second row folded as low as it goes? Is that the height of the load floor on these GM minivans with the seats folded? If so, the DC minivans with "stow and go" coming this spring have little competition here to worry about. Even my 1996 Caravan second row quad seats fold as flat as that without removal. So what is going to make these sell compared to the strong and getting stronger minivan competition?

ateixeira

Bigger rebates.

-juice

dindak

kirstie : I doubt there will be any touching. What is in Chicago / Detroit is usually the same in Toronto.

badgerfan : One could ask the same about the current vans. They still sell quite well with less in the way of incentives than Chrysler. We won't know how the new ones drive, feel or really look like up close inside for a while. My one wish is they they were a little less similar and there were only 2 or maybe 3 versions tops.

regfootball

my GOD their is a lot of distance between the front of the bumper and the front wheels.....HUGE overhang..........

tomcat630

Does look funny, like a school bus.

People who still think that Saturn is its own car company will be like "Wow they have a minivan now".

badgerfan

Yeh, cab forward it ain't.

On the other hand, it might be easy to get to the rear bank of plugs on the V-6.

I might just trade my '96 Caravan before it hits 100K just so I don't have to pay someone to change those plugs. It might get pretty pricey to change those back three plugs. We won't be getting one of these GM offerings, however.

I guess GM is putting a front hood on these things to make people think they are buying an SUV instead of a minivan. Guys can't be "macho" and drive a minivan, after all, and even some women have caved to the anti-minivan, SUV pressure.

jchan2

try the newer Chrysler offerings for 2005- they have a split third row and fold down second rows on the Grand Caravan/Town & Country.

dindak

Big hood should leave lots of room for a 3.9L option though!

rctennis3811

Plus, they have side-curtain airbags!

grbeck

That long nose looks awkward from the side.

I wonder how long Saturn's "no haggle" philosophy will last when these vans hit the showrooms. Before, Saturns were unique, which lessened the ability of potential customers to shop around for better deals on the same vehicle at another GM-brand dealer. Now, customers can see that the same minivan is available at Chevy, Pontiac and Buick dealers. In Harrisburg, the Chevy dealer is right across the street from the Saturn dealer, and the Pontiac dealer is about five blocks up the road.

How long can Saturn dealers maintain the "no haggle" philosophy when potential customers threaten to go to the Chevy or Pontiac dealer for a better deal on the same vehicle?

badgerfan

Yep, I know about the T&C and Dodge 2005 Stow and Go second and third row seats and improved safety features.

It seems GM just decided to ignore the true minivan market, as these new ones are missing the boat without fold flat flush into the floor seats.

dindak

rctennis3811 : The current vans have side impact bags (in fact they are offered on the base model Montana right now as a promo), I still find it hard to believe these ones will not. Strange.

grbeck : It's called cash back. MSRP on Saturns still holds on slow selling L's for example, but they offer cash backs so there is still no haggle.

spartanmann

Just curious, but this will be the first time that Saturn will be selling a cloned version of a standard GM product. Chevy, Pontiac and Buick dealers will have to sell them at invoice and collect just the holdback. Saturn dealers sell at sticker per GM policy. Won't the Saturn sticker price have to be lower than the others to compete? I don't believe their version of the van has any features worth paying extra for.

ateixeira

Yes, I thought about the same thing. Saturn will have to have a lower price, or smart consumers will go pay invoice minues rebates at other GM dealers.

-juice

dindak

You are absolutely right. Saturn has never had a badge engineered car and I don't think they should have got one here. Saturn should have imported the Opel van and rebadged that!

My guess is the MSRP will be lower than the others. It has to be if they want to stay no haggle.

jchan2

I hope it's lower.

bigdaddycoats

http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/news,view.spy?artid=20656&amp- ;pg=5

ccgegg

I just discovered these new mini-vans with a SUV look today-- yeah, I'm a little behind. And I was all excited when I first saw pictures-- from the front, that is. I thought "cool, someone finally wised-up and made a minivan with the exterior appeal of an SUV." Well, once I saw the side and back, forget it. An SUV doesn't look good strictly because of its front end. These GM designs still have an obvious sliding door track and the famous minivan curved back hatch. I'm going to go through with my Pilot purchase, thinking I'll keep that 3-4 years, and by then some car manufacturer's designers will have created one good-looking minivan. What does everyone else think of the design?

ateixeira

Standard minivan with a big beak up front. The long/narrow proportions make it look a little odd in person.

Not that styling is high on the priority list for vans.

-juice

badgerfan

Aren't there enough SUV's SUV's based on cars, crossover vehicles, etc., etc., etc., for you to find what you want? Seems like every manufacturer has introduced enough of these types vehicles so the market is saturated with choices.

Minivans are minivans and shouldn't try to look like anything they are not, and that is GM's problem. They would have been much better off investing their development money like Chrysler (somewhat belatedly) has with designing fully stowable second and third row seats, and not trying to diguise these vans with a snout to make them look kinda like an SUV.

dindak

If you want an SUV on a van base, Rendezvous is a great choice. These vans still look like vans. Rendezvous also has a great 3.6L OHC engine option if you want an alternative to a Pilot.

In terms of looks, I like the Buick ok but the Saturn Relay is nothing great, it has no Saturn look to it at all. Badge engineering at it's worst.

ccgegg

Badgerfan, I don't think there is a vehicle on the market which has the rugged styling of an SUV combined with a minivan's functionality for a family, especially a family with little kids. This group of GM vehicles is the first step I've seen towards that. Market share of SUVs is increasing because they look good-- not because more people are taking up off-road lifestyles or towing more stuff. Some people- like myself- don't want to be seen in a minivan... or Element... or Aztec... etc. It's just like a house-- the interior is really what matters, but I still pay attention to the exterior and want it to look nice.

Someone mentioned the Rendezvous. I'd say it's bridging the gap like the new GMs, but it only seats 6 if you have 2 captains chairs, right? And I personally don't think its looks compare to the nicer looking SUVs on the market.

dindak

It does have an optional 3rd row of seats if you need more. Should seat 7 though the back seat is small (much like the Pilot). Extended versions of the Envoy have a bigger third row than either Pilot / RDV.

ateixeira

Get an AWD Sienna and put a big rhino bar in the front. ;-)

-juice

jchan2

the Toyota Highlander? Yes, the third row is tiny, but it looks more SUVlike than the minivanlike rear end (my opinion) of the Rendezvous.

rctennis3811

Or even the Pilot which is a very good SUV for the money spent.