Chevy Uplander/Pontiac Montana SV6/Saturn Relay/Buick Terraza

montanafan

"Although we haven't checked them out yet"

Or in other words, they are made by GM so they must be over priced and stink.

 At least you will have the large number of under $25,000 DVD, CD, MP3, ABS, OnStar, 17" Tire, fold-flat rear seat, 25gl fuel tank equiped vans to choose from ;-).

Wonder how many of the 134 Uplanders they built last week have been sold at full MSRP? Which then leads to what does Edmunds base their "what others are paying" TMV on? Although I am happy to know in Massachusetts (based on my zip) "they" are paying $2 less for an Uplander ;-).

stever

Edmunds used to not offer TMV for brand new cars, but the demand was so much they plugged what info they could get into the formula and post that number. Then it gets refined as more sales data comes through.

Look for the About TMV links if you want the gritty details.

Steve, Host

bigdaddycoats

Not a single one of these vans has been sold yet.
The LaCrosse just started shipping to the dealers as of Monday and they had over 4000 built. It is typical of automakers to build some inventory before they start sending them to dealers.

jchan2

If customers were excited enough, I guess dealers could "pre-sell" its inventory by letting customers choose from what's coming in and put their name down along with a small deposit. The Odysseys are being sold this way, Siennas used to be sold this way Priuses (or Prii) are being sold this way.

gmhellman

A member of my church pre-purchased a fully loaded sv6 with a deposit at the dealer. The salesman said that he is the third person to do such in the last week. We live in a cold climate and many are interested in the awd in the short wheelbase model.

dan165

I saw a red Terazza yesterday in east Toronto near the zoo, not far from GM Canada head office. It was likley a preproduction van and had dealer plates on it.

It looked pretty nice, better than it does in pictures. The big Buick grill is what caught my eye.

tamu2002

I'm actually a GM fan I just think they probably missed an opportunity. They should've lowered the MSRP prices to realistic figures to make the vans a great value WITHOUT the rebates. Plus I still believe they should've at least make the side CURTAIN airbags an option. We'll definitely check them out...

montanafan

MSRP for a 2005 Montana with DVD and OnStar was $31,990. How is $25,235 for a 2005 SV6 not a lower/more realistic MSRP?
And not every vehicle can have every feature. Other vans make due with their manufacturers selection of available safety features, so will these vans.
When you check out the improvements to the all ready solid previous generation, you should be happy. Boston Auto Show opens Nov 6th, so even if dealers don't have them, will see them there.

Another note, the new generation only comes in the extended lenght versions, as did the 2005 old generation vans. The last short wheelbase models were 2004s.

jchan2

These vans sound like they will be a great bargain, with all the standard gear on them plus the signature GM Cashback system. (you know, $3000 Cashback or 0% financing)

tamu2002

I wouldn't think GM will offer rebates on the new ones anytime soon...

tamu2002

vans, I'm sure will work great for the majority of folks, just like our Malibu has worked for us. With the rebates they're a great practical value. But I'm not sure if one can say the same without the price advantage though. That's not to say GM cars are not good. It's just that its competitions are very tough.

jchan2

not three thousand right off the bat, more like $500 and $1000. Get to model year end clearance however......

montanafan

Watch for the rebates at first to perhaps follow the G6 examples. Rebate coupon sent to those who request infomation or register at the web site. $1000 (new) GM card redemption allowance. Perhaps targeted direct mail to current or competative owners.

tamu2002

think GM should do what Honda does with their van: make everything standard, and at the same time keep the price tag low. If I can get a new 05 Oddyssey with pretty much everything for $25K, why would I pay the same for a GM van?

samnoe

Pretty much everything for $25K ???

No Way!

You meant $35K, right?

tamu2002

I'm really not trying to exalt the Odyssey, but the thing has traction control and side airbags and curtains standard. The trim I checked doesn't even have any available options. I'm sure you have to pay extra for the DVD but who cares?

jchan2

The LX gives you plenty of features, but for the premium features like the power sliding doors, VCM, the CD Changer, automatic climate control, Navigation System and DVD, you have to step up to at least an EX. But the LX is a good value anyways without all the premium stuff. It still has side curtains and a split folding third row seat.

tamu2002

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't really care for those premium features, especially if I have to pay thousands more for them. With the exception of the power sliding doors. We're driving a rental Dodge van now. The power dual sliding doors and the holes in the floor are really handy!

alpha01

IMO, the $25,000 Ody LX is bar-none the best minivan value out there right now. Need more features, the EX is also a great buy, but Toyota offers more options flexibility/configurability, and equipped similarly, the prices arent that different.

~alpha

samnoe

Best minivan value?

Best minivan, you're right, but not value. You can have most features for that price on the Freestar or Chrysler minivans (after rebates). But then again, they are not the "best" minivans.

The Freestar SEL w/ power sliding doors and power everything (MSRP well over $30K) is now available for about $23K at most dealers. That's a lot more value in my book.

And the new GM vans will be no different. You'll pay (after a few months) $25K out of pocket for a fully loaded van (well, except for the curtain airbags), not just for the base model, as Honda.

mings98 "Chrysler Town & Country and Grand Caravan 2005+" Oct 10, 2004 7:55pm

jchan2

The Freestar and the GM vans are not as refined as the Odyssey or Sienna. It all depends how much extra you are willing to pay for the Honda or Toyota badge, the more refined engines and the more efficient engines (in the case of the Ford Freestar)

samnoe

Thank you for agreeing to my words

alpha01

In terms of the overall package, the Odyssey is a far superior minivan than the Freestar. And if I had a family, Id place precedence on crash avoidance and protection in a vehicle such as this one, and the Ody has all the requisite side impact protection, as well as stability and traction control standard. Freestars as equipped sticker at 30 and +, and will only come down to about $25,000 with rebates. At that price, Id happily get the vehicle that is more powerful, fuel efficient, comfortable, versatile, reliable, and will hold its value, even if it means having to close my own doors.

~alpha

tamu2002

the dodge link said he got an sxt for $19K. I'd like to know how to get one here in the Northwest. The bottom line is--if I can get a well equipped domestic van with ALL the safety features standard on the Ody, for at least $5K less, I'd go for it.

As of right now, the $25K Ody does seem to be the best value and best van. The Quest is a serious contender as well.

lsw

From the Terraza "Build Your Buick" page:

"Entertainment system includes DVD player with remote (batteries not included), overhead display, auxiliary audio/video jacks, remote game plug-in and mute button in overhead console"

And I was so close to buying...

jchan2

so to save $0.50 per car. Multiply by twenty thousand minivans at the very least, and you get a savings of ten thousand dollars.

samnoe

He He... If it would be me, I would increased the MSRP with 50¢.....

That's an absurd.

vanman1

Actually, because many of these vans will sit out in the extreme heat (say AZ or FL), GM likely doesn't put the batteries in because of possible leaks. I'm sure any dealer will throw them in.

Saw a Terazza on the highway last week. Are they out now?

montanafan

4 batteries each remote? One to Two battery each headset? Up to 12 batteries for each of the 100,000+ cars. Could beooking at quarter of million+ in savings. Plus the buyers will not be looking for new batteries under warranty when/if they die. Vanman1 is right, dealer will be tossing them in.

bigdaddycoats

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0410/13/b01-302191.htm

jchan2

If you increased the sticker price by fifty cents, you wouldn't save nearly a quarter million. Plus, the buyers wouldn't be too happy with a price increase.

dan165

Pretty fair I think..

http://www.saturncanada.com/ssi/static/english/vehicles/2005/satu- rn/relay/relay_overview.html

sundevil99

Just got off the phone with a local (Phoenix, AZ) salesman. He says they have placed their orders and they expect the first shipment of Uplanders to arrive in early November. However, he said it may take until December.
Have any other US markets seen any show up on their local lots?

bigdaddycoats

Production just started last week. I am pretty sure they have not shipped them to dealers yet.

montanafan

We talk alot about head curtain air bags here in this thread. This past summer the NHTSA proposed requiring head curtain bags in vehicles. They estimated the lives saved at 700-1,000 per year. (The stories/press releases/NHTSA web site never indicated at what point of market coverage those estimates would take place though). Todays press stories talk about driver distraction and have a chilling stat on cell phone use. 2,600 lives lost per year because of cell phone use (330,000 injuries). Almost 3x-4x the life savings for elimintaing just cell phones.

While the new family dosen't supplement the excellent real world injury ratings and avaialble side impact chest/thorax seat bags with head curtains, they do address driver distraction with the Onstar system hands free cell phone capabilities, the dvd video systems children calming capabilities, and no in dash navigational systems. Guess there are no perfect solutions yet.

dan165

I still think curtain bags are less important in a van sitting higher. That said, more safety is always better.

jchan2

having curtain airbags certainly helps in side impact crashes, as the IIHS tests have proved.

vanman1

It is logical that the higher up you sit, the less effective curtains will be. More air bags is always better but most people on a tight budget will not pay $1000-1500 for the "safety package" anyway.

jchan2

An easy way to solve the problem that most people won't pay $1,000 for the "safety package" is to make it standard and raise the sticker price another $999. Or, charge $500 for the safety package so the cost of extra airbags wouldn't be too high.

ateixeira

Economies of scale - make it standard, then increase the base price by $400. They save money not having to produce two type of pillars for the vans.

-juice

dan165

True, but then the van goes more upscale and out of reach of some buyers. Perhaps Chevy should offer it as an option, Buick/Saturn offer it standard.

ateixeira

Not a bad idea.

-juice

jchan2

Chevy, Pontiac and Saturn should make it optional, and the Buick gets it standard. It's considered a "premium feature"

ateixeira

Tell Kia that, side curtain air bags are standard on the lowly Spectra. VTEC also.

-juice

tamu2002

ateixeira

It's about to be replaced, though, and I bet the new one will have them.

So that's comparing a new GM van to a Kia van at the very end of its life-cycle.

-juice

vanman1

A lady here in the office just bought a used 2 yr old Kia and it's been nothing but trouble. She regrets the purchase every day she drives it.

I'd take a GM over a Kia any day for twice the price.

jchan2

what model was the Kia? Some of the earlier Sephias and Sportages aren't exactly the best car in the world.....
I wouldn't take a GM at twice the price of a Kia. At twice the price of a Kia, I'll be demanding a Honda/Toyota car. Maybe even a small Acura....

tamu2002

has been reliable, seems to me. If weren't for the poor gas mileage and small size, we'd consider it.

dan165

I'd never buy a KIA either at any price. Their van is bland, sucks gas, looks like a Windstar knock off and I believe still has questionable long term quality.

I don't know anyone who bought a Hyundai in the past who would buy again and KIA falls below Hyundai in pretty much every long term study (both way below average).