Chevy Uplander/Pontiac Montana SV6/Saturn Relay/Buick Terraza

ateixeira

Keep in mind you are comparing GM's new van to Kia's old van. The Uplander will have to compete with the next Kia, not the current one.

Spy shots are out, it's due very soon. For 90% of its life cycle the GM vans will be competing with the new Kia.

-juice

ateixeira

Any how, back to my original point, I mentioned Kia specifically as a base line. Kia's new cars will have safety features that some Buicks will not have.

That doesn't sound right to me.

Noone will argue that point.

-juice

sundevil99

Chevy has finally updated the pricing information for the Uplander on their website. Although, you still can't use the 'build your Chevy' feature.
Looks as thought the LS Uplander is coming in a couple of hundred less than the Venture LS. Kudos to GM for keeping the price down.

dan165

List prices are definitely lower and you get more.

The old vans were over priced though.

vanman1

I don't care what some people think, Korean cars may be better than they were, but they still seem junky to me. Long term tracking by JD Power puts them at the bottom of the heap and that's enough proof for me.

ateixeira

Some domestic cars are right next to them, though.

It'll take time, and even then public perception lags several years behind reality.

-juice

gmhellman

The pontiac web site has the full web pages and info on the 05 sv6. Unfortunately when I choose to build my pontiac I can only go about two steps and I get a technical error page. I hope that they fix this soon. The packages seem very well stock for prices, but I will wait for rebates/incentives. These vehicles will not sell like a sports car or some type of niche vehicle. (i.e. the Mini Cooper or Bettle)

samnoe

"I can only go about two steps and I get a technical error page..."

Let's hope that the real car will not do the same... go about two steps and then get a technical problem...

samnoe

BTW, visiting the Pontiac site I was shocked to see the estimated mileage: 18/24 for FWD models, and 17/22 for AWD models!

Wasn't the new crossover vans all about good mileage? The only acceptable response for offering such an underpowered engine was that it will have best mileage in class. ???????

And that's just the estimates. I believe the EPA testings will be even worse than these figures. While the new Honda Odyssey and Toyota Sienna both tops them off with superior mileage.

Still wonder if the 5-speed wouldn't improve mileage?

vanman1

Mileage is disappointing. We get about 26-27 highway in our 04 Montana. The extra power isn't worth the 2-3 mpg.

I saw a Buick Terraza and it's actually a nice looking van. It's too bad GM couldn't put some DOD technology to improve the mileage.

jchan2

This happens occasionally on Chevrolet's GM BuyPower site with basically any model- sometimes it'll take me to an error page but other times it'll proceed normally.

samnoe

When will I see one on the dealers lot?

It's already November 9 !!

montanafan

They only started shipping from the plant the week of October 18th. Should be in dealerships this week.

bigdaddycoats

Did I just read this on Edmunds??? I must be dreaming.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/buick/terraza/100376640/roadtesta- rticle.html?articleId=103417&tid=edmunds.h..wkedmunds.firstdr- ive.1g.*

dan165

Wow, Edmunds actually had a lot of nice things to say about the Relay especially. Could it be all the naysayers were wrong?

I thought Edmunds would butcher these vans. I am shocked also,

carnuts1

http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.cfm?id=16- 653

vanman1

Edmunds was nice. I think the vans are fine but they are mid pack. That said, I love our Montana anyway. Great price and I suspect these vans will also be competing on price though they are an improvement. Buick should have a premium engine at the very least, otherwise it's a dressed up Chevy.

Lambda where are you?

ateixeira

I'm not sure if a brand new van starting its life in the middle of the pack is a good thing. Competitors will only get better and by the end of its life cycle it'll be bottom of the pack.

That's how I read it.

GM has just *got* to let go of the ridiculous CSV label, I swear it makes me want to toss my cookies.

It is a minivan. Puh-lease. A little honesty and people might even take it seriously.

-juice

bigdaddycoats

Its a minivan??? No way? Here I thought it was a SUV. Just kidin. Hey, someone in the GM marketing department got paid big bucks to think up that one.

beach15

Here's a real dealer pic of a new Dark Blue Uplander LS:

http://www.dudleymartin.com/Chevy/2517945.html

Still not good looking, but much better when not shot by one of GM's photographers and not in beige or silver.

ateixeira

Looks almost black in that pic.

-juice

dan165

Looks ok to me.

U$30K though, that better be loaded to the max. I guess there is some room for incentives.

jchan2

for the price, these vans aren't all that bad. Standard DVD players. Not bad at all. Too bad there's that stupid CSV label- just tell them it's a minivan- the CSV label isn't fooling anybody. And I guess first impressions aren't always right.

Kirstie_H

A reporter is looking for consumers attracted to GM's plan to lock the interest rate for a purchase of both the current and NEXT car or truck. If you know about this program and would like to offer your opinion, please e-mail jfallon@edmunds.com by Monday, November 15. Thanks!

sundevil99

I visited Brown & Brown Chevy in downtown Mesa, AZ last night to take a look at the only Uplander in the Phoenix metro area.
The salesman asked if I wanted to take it for a spin. It was the base model, but I was still pretty impressed.
Impressions:
-I liked the instrument panel.
-Looking at it straight from the front one might be fooled for 2.3 seconds, but it is a minivan. (From my perspective however, this does help me personally with the "I'm not old enough and uncool enough to drive a minivan, am I?" feeling.)
-I drove and the wife and kids were in the back... my wife was impressed with how roomy it was.
-Not sure if the seating configurations are different between the models, but there was plenty of room between the front to seats.
-Although I didn't play with it at all, the DVD player and screen seemed to be well put together. The rail system is a good idea.
-I have a very noisy car right now ('98 Breeze) so my perspective may be off, but the road noise wasn't too bad.
-It wasn't like a full SUV/Pickup, but I did feel a little bit above the rest of the traffic. At least a little higher than other vans I've driven.
-The van looks large/long from the outside and has plenty of room on the inside, but I didn't feel like I was driving a school bus.

I talked to the salesman a little about 'buzz'. Nobody is pre-ordering these vans, but he said that quite a few people had stopped by to check it out. I get the impression that we'll be able to a good deal when the time comes to purchase.

ateixeira

So, you buying? Waiting for incentives?

-juice

sundevil99

I'm likely going to wait until late December before I buy. I'm no expert car buyer, but most of what I have read says that dealers are more willing to deal at the end of the year/month. I'm also hoping Chevy will put out some year end incentives and/or bump up the ceiling on the GM Mastercard points (currently only at $1000).
Anybody else have any thoughts on timing of when I should buy?

ateixeira

I would wait until some incentives arrive. Shouldn't be long.

If sales are slow, I'm guessing we could see $2000 by the end of the year. Just a guess.

-juice

jchan2

I'd wait until summer 2005, when they have to clear the 2005 models out to get ready for the 2006 models. I think cash back should be up to $4500 by then, and combined with GM card points, it should be a pretty affordable van.

sundevil99

Wish I could wait until next summer... but Future Sundevil #3 will arrive in February... Three carseats will NOT fit in the back seat of the Breeze.

I plan on mainly working with "Internet Managers" and dealing with them primarily through email. Hopefully I'll be able to contact quite a few dealers and get them to bid against one another.

Any other tips from the experts out there?

jchan2

Sounds like a good idea. Internet Managers earn their commissions through how many units they sell, not how much they make on each individual car.

montanafan

I have always felt one good technique is to tell the manufacturer you are interested. That way if they do any targeted incentives, you could be on their list.

I suggest you go to Chevrolet's web site and request info on the Uplander. Or at GM Buypower. Go to the GM Card site and update your vehicle preference info.

Surf around Chevrolet's site or when you see adds for Chevrolet on other sites. Example, with the Oprah promotion for the G6, you could go to a site from Oprah's site and request a $500 email certificate on the G6. Might find an Uplander promotion.

Try to find a GM Employee and ask them for an "In The Driveway" coupon, that might save you some money (it offers the holder the same price as a GM supplier).

On eBay look for the GM class action settlement certificates. Once transfered to you, they are worth $250.

Check out the dealership web site. Sometimes dealers will have an online coupon good for money off.

Good luck with #3.

jchan2

another good way to save money is to choose the version of the vans that is selling the slowest, and then go bargain from there. (The Relay's pricetag is non-negotiable- keep that in mind)All four (Uplander, Montana SV6, Terrazza and Relay) are basically the same van except for Terrazza which has some extra QuietTuning stuffed in there.

samnoe

The Terraza also have better suspension than the other 3.

ronsmith38

Is it "better" or just "softer"?

beach15

Well, the one difference is that the Buick gets the independent rear suspension in both FWD and AWD models...the Chevy, Pontiac, and Saturn only get the IRS on AWD models.

As far as tuning, it's probably the same or a little softer than the others.

vanman1

I finally saw a Uplander while I was in my home town this past weekend. One thing that strikes you about the vehicle is how much bigger it looks with the new nose. The van looked much better than I thought and had a definite SUV look to it. I still think I like our van's looks better but Uplander is growing on me. As for the inside, I could not sit in it, but it looked very good. This was a higher end model with alloys. GM has done a decent job at making something out of these older vans. I think they will sell in spite of some shortcomings. Better than the cookie cutter Freestar.

bigdaddycoats

Local dealer has had 2 SV6s and one Terraza - both sold in a day or two. From looking in the windows, the interiors look very nice.

On a side note, my sister-in-law just ordered a Sienna, I tried to convince her to at least look at the old but new GM vans but everything she read lead her to the Toyota or Honda. Her biggest factors were quality and reliability.

dan165

The $ienna is nice but add a few options and watch the price fly. A lot of people just read CR and pick the best rated vehicle. If you dig a little deeper you will find the better values however as the best rated usually has highest price.

I have seen the SV6 also and it looks ok and does have a bit of an SUV look to it. Profile is almost Yukon XL like. I think people may take to this van, it certainly looks better in person.

ateixeira

I've seen Siennas in the $22-24k price range, street price that is.

They offer AWD, DVD, leather, and all that other stuff because that's what customers are demanding.

-juice

jchan2

wants AWD, DVD players and Navigation Systems.

ateixeira

Not everybody, but most buyers.

You really think Toyota is going to mind if they hit the sweet spot, maybe 80% of high-end buyers, and sell in that more profitable segment?

The local dealer always has 2-3 Siennas under $25k, but for the most part they sit. The Limiteds loaded up are flying off the shelf.

Can't blame them.

-juice

dan165

I was driving at lunch today and saw a lady driving a bought SV6 on the road. It was behind me and passed me. The big nose was very intimidating in my rear mirror and very SUV like. Not bad at all, blended in to traffic just fine.

I think about 1/2 of the vans on the road are base or near base models. I see lots of plastic wheel covers and models with no roof racks. They are the value family haulers and they are big. Chrysler, Mazda and GM seem to sell the bulk of these.

infinia1

do these "new" vans have the same wiper design as the previous versions?

gmhellman

I was at my local pontiac dealer and asked them when the 1st sv6 would arrive. They told me that the delivery date was cancelled and pushed back 2 months. I asked why and they told me that they weren't given a reason. She told me that the entire production was stopped. Any vans that are on the road are either the very 1st production models or GM driven vans that are actually "program vans" I wonder what is going on at the factory? Any GM employees out there with info?

gmhellman

I went back to the delaer and I talked to the president of the dealership and he said that the vans were stopped on production due to fit/finish issues. They were unhappy with the attention to details and were taking them back in to get it right. All 700 finished were sent back to the factory, including the one that they had on the floor for customer demonstration. I sure hope that the wait is worth it. I know that GM has had fit/finish issues in the past and that maybe this is a prelude to future fit/finish goals in the future.

bigdaddycoats

According to Automotive News production has not been stopped.

SV6 production-

last week - 528
month of November - 966
year to date - 3529

If I remember correctly these vans are produced at the Doraville, Georgia plant - which is scheduled for overtime this week.

samnoe

I asked the same question somewhere above. It seems that the wiper design is the same funky design than the old one, where one wiper is always in the middle of the window when engaged (not fully landing), and blocking the view a little.

The signal/wipers/cruise control stalk design to the left of the steering wheel isn't changed either. Go figure.

Question: These lamps below the headlamps - are they fog lamps? or just parking lamps and mimic fog lamps? (according to Edmund's review)?

bigdaddycoats

"The signal/wipers/cruise control stalk design to the left of the steering wheel isn't changed either. Go figure."

Yes, it has changed. All pictures I have seen show it as a separate stalk on the lower right hand side of the steering wheel.

samnoe

That stalk is probably gear selector... isn't it?

I did not seen it personally, just copying from Edmund's review.