Subaru XT Turbo Forester

capriracer

Tires squeal when they are exceeding their limit of adhesion, which usually occurs because the car is being driven too fast for the turn. However, there is an steering geometry property called Ackerman that could be a factor.

When you turn the steering wheel, both front tires are turned. However, they are turned different amounts - the inside tire needing to turn more than the outside. This difference is called Ackerman, and is sometimes expressed as "toe change on turning".

If you were to go through the math, you'd find that for a given radius turn and a given speed, there would be a certain amount of Akerman. Change the speed or the radius of the turn, and the optimum amount of Akerman changes.

Put another way, if a vehicle is set up with a certain amount of Akerman, for every turn, there is an optimal speed. If you are either above or below this speed, the angle is not perfect. But the way this usually winds up is that a vehicle is either set up for high speed curves or low speed curves.

I'm guessing this model is set up for high speed curves. My van was like that and it would squeal in parking lot situations.

Akerman is not something that you can adjust - it is built into the vehicle. Changing the Akerman involves replacing or bending linkages, so changing it is a major modifcation and shouldn't be attempted without the expertise to understand what is involved.

Hope this helps.

lfdal

I haven't seen an XT w/o the capacity to hold a cabin air filter - do yourself a favor, take out the 9 screws, pull the glove box straight out after the last screw is out as there are one or two mounting pins, and then just look at the air box above the fan. If there's a door there that you can remove, it will accept a cabin air filter. Period.

At that point, just leave the glove box out, drive to the dealer and get a filter. Neither of my Foresters, the 03XS or the 04XT came with the filter preinstalled. I put them both in myself.

How the dealer could ascertain that just by feeling around is a bit of a mystery - maybe he has "gifted" hands. Maybe he's full of baloney.

HTH

Larry

lfdal

capriracer - Thanks for the info. Never heard of that before (Akerman), but now I'll be doing some googling later.

Thanks
Larry

bobshere1

And while you've got the glove box off you can do an easy SubyMod to put in a light and switch inside the glove box if you first buy the right part.... I already bought the part and am just waiting until I need to change filters -- supposed to be changed once a year....

        Bob

ateixeira

Where'd you get it? and how much?

Do you have to splice?

Take pictures if you can, that's a cool mod.

-juice

volkov

Couldn't have given you the technical explanation, but our Yukon XL does the same thing when in AWD. Only really get it in the underground parking lot at work, but the tires just scream. Part of it, as explained above is that you likely have the wheels turned to a much greater degree at slow speeds. Mine is practically at lock going into the parking stall.

paisan

Yukon XL with AWD? Is it a Denali or the auto-4wd that is in the regular yukon, if it's the "auto" then it's probably axle bind/tire squeel.

-mike

parigi

Jim, I've found the manual transmission to be nicely balanced -- not as light as a Honda's, for example, but certainly not as heavy as a truck's. It's as it should be, in my opinion.
A disadvantage is the short gearing from first through third. If the point is to achieve maximum acceleration numbers, then mission accomplished. (Have you smoked a Mustang lately?) But you have to constantly shift while driving around town -- a bit annoying.
--Parigi

dsjeepti

Looking to finally replace my BMW 318 TI (too costly to maintain and too small for my current needs). I hadn't considered the Forester until test driving in upstate NY and was blown away by the XT Auto. I tried out an X briefly and it seemed OK. My driving will mostly be city (75%) with lots of stop and go (hence the desire for an auto). With a good selection of remaining 04's locally, I am being teased by the XT. Is it worth the extra $ (initially and MPG, gas type, maint. etc.) or would I be better off with an XS (like the heated seats and windshield wipers) given my type of driving?

Any comments would be appreciated,
Thanks, Dan

miamixt

thanks Larry, I will try that. However why would others spend $260 on the Filtration System, where would that be located, and when the Service Advisor checked to see if I had the "Unit", he felt around and said no, yet told me his Girlfriend had an older Forester with the "Box"? Also since Dealers carry very few parts in Stock, can I find an aftermarket filter, or would you happen to know the Part #? In any case I thank you for your advice, my Leather is starting to change to a Leather Mold Pollen Dust Aroma

miamixt

as Tony the tiger would say "They're Great! Get an XT, very popular Car in your area. when I visited New York/New Jersey, I saw many Foresters. In my year of owning a Forester in Miami, I have never seen another Forester, and I did say I wanted something different!

dsjeepti

Reason I jumped to XS. You do see quite a few Foresters in the NYC area, but not many XT's. I think the MPG's and high insurance rates minimize their sales as compared to the other trim levels. Reason dealers here have so many in my neck of the woods. Living in the city, I need good off the line power say in the 0-40 mph range, not so much 0-60. I do most of my test driving upstate as no one will let you try one on the highway in the city (including parts of L. I.)

By the way, I might be in the minority, but I prefer the non-painted plastic bumpers in the base "X" and wish more companies would at least offer it as an option. All I see here are peoples bumpers scratched up from parking mishaps. Old PT cruiser had them and now they too switched to the painted variety. Painted bumpers look nice only when new, in my opinion.

Thanks, DS

miamixt

DS, you are correct about the Heated Seats not available in the "X". About Wipers, do they make heated Wipers?. And you would be quite pleased with the Insurance Premium difference in the "XT". I agree with you about Painted Bumpers, however when I scratched my XT I just painted over the Scratch. And be careful with this Zero to 40 thing, while the XT is virtually untouchable at Zero to 60, most horrible accidents occur in the 0 to 20 Range in an Intersection. I live in the second worse driving area in the Country, work over nights, and watched someone this morning decide he wasn't going to turn on Green, nor Yellow, but Red was his Color, as Maxwell Smart would say "Missed him by that much"!

miamixt

I am going to follow Larry's advice, however if the "system" was an "option" it is mind boggling to think that the hardware is there and all you would have to do is place a filter in it. Why would anyone purchase this option if that is all you need to do? I remember JB (Ballistic) speaking about his only option on his XT (and all the regrets with the M/T XT.) I think I recently saw him over at the KIA Board!

lfdal

I have to admit, I have 0.0 clue what they're talking about with an add on "Filtration System" - especially at $260.00. I've not heard of it being a Subaru option.

Maybe something aftermarket?

In any event I'll look in my maint records tonight and post the Subaru part number unless some one does it sooner.

Hyundai, at least on the Elantra's, and Mercury on the Sable's do it the same way - the space is there, all you have to do is insert the filter.

HTH

Larry

bluesubie

Check subaruparts.com for the part no. and installation instructions:

http://www.subaruparts.com/catalog/?section=424#1032

Maybe the purchase option is expensive because you're paying for the part and labor.

-Dennis

bkaiser1

If the forester's anything like my WRX (and it should be) the "box" is there, you just have to take the glove box door off to insert the filter. I didn't get the filtration system at the time of purchase, but I did order a $30 filter online a few weeks later and I installed it at home. There's no additional hardware on the Impreza's, just buy the filter and put it in. I'd be quite surprised if the Forester was any different.

Brian

bluesubie

I just looked up the price on Edmunds:
K3A Interior Air Filtration Kit info (MSRP) $59 (Invoice) $39.

Maybe the labor is $200!? :-)

-Dennis

subearu

Was the same in my '04 XT. All I did was order the filter (from subaruparts) and insert it.

No way should it cost $200+ Even with labor. Run from that dealer ASAP!

-Brian

tdiver

I am a new FXT owner (4 months now). I have been reading this forum for about 4 months before I purchased mine. Just wanted to say Thanks to all you out there. This forum has been,for the most part, VERY helpful. As to my 04 FXT auto, at approx 4400 miles This is my take on it. Like the power, handling and size of it. Don't like the frameless side windows and only one color option for the interior. Nervous about the tranny. But all in all I give it a BIG thumbs up. I have been driving Toyota's since 81 but if this FXT holds up I well be a Subaru convert. It's all in the Drive. Thanks Again T.

subewannabe

so, I guess the consensus is that all you need is to buy a filter and the rest is already there, at least according to the owners manual.

parigi

Dan, the only real criteria for choosing an XT over an XS is how much power you want or need. Though I'm an XT owner, I have to say that I don't need the added power. I could have lived with the XS without complaint. But I simply wanted the ability to accelerate briskly (on occasion) and drive loaded down without wheezing. For me, the added power helped create a unique car. Gas bills will be 30 percent higher than on the XS, which could be a deal-breaker for some. Hope that helps. --Parigi

ateixeira

The base 2.5l is plenty adequate, more fuel efficient, more practical, and uses less fuel, regular at that.

So of course I recommend the XT. ;-)

You only live once.

-juice

dsjeepti

Thanks for the feed back. I probably don't need the power, but it sure felt nice when I briefly drove it. I am weighing in all the factors, especially cost of ownership. I too would like something a little different or special. It's the "will I be sorry later" that gets me. Cost vs. smiles every time I go to the local store. If this was a weekend car, it would be a no brainer, go for the power. But as an every day driver, mpg, premium fuel, possibly higher maintenance needs, all weigh in...

Dan

ateixeira

In that case the X will have much lower operating costs. Gas mileage is great at 23/30, plus regular fuel. You'll save maybe a couple hundred per year on gas.

Insurance should be cheaper, maybe folks here can tell you how much theirs went up when they upgraded.

Can't say for sure on repairs, but an extended warranty carries a turbo surcharge, so it's fair to expect slightly more in that dept as well.

None of those will make you bankrupt, but the X will be a much better miser.

-juice

p0926

I agree that the 2.5l engine is perfectly adequate for almost all situations. Which is why I traded mine in for an XT :-) Hey like Juice said, you only live once and the while the X/XS is an excellent all-purpose utility vehicle, the XT is a FUN all-purpose utility vehicle! IRT to mpg and premium penalties, my mpg avg is 10% lower and the cost of premium is about 10% higher (fluctuates with the price per gal). For someone driving 15k a year, that comes to about $265 more for the XT. Pretty insignificant when you consider the smiles per mile that the turbo generates.

-Frank

dsjeepti

You're probably right Frank, I actually will be putting more like 12K a year, so the difference is less.

Funny thing happened at a Subaru dealer in L.I. I took a look at the X and XS (they had no more 04 XT's, but were getting 05's soon.) After talking awhile about my situation, the very nice and knowledgeable salesman actually persuaded me to go non-turbo. Considering the chance for a higher sale, I was surprised. He sighted the usual mpg, premium gas, but also, he felt the turbo was not needed in the Forester (he did think in the '05 Legacy, it was the way to go.) He felt the difference of 165 vs. 210 HP was not that great, particularly for my type of stop and go driving. Around the the local streets with many stop signs, the low level X seemed plenty powerful. I could not compare the XT, something I hadn't done in city stop and go. Now I am more confused.

My boss has a Leased Mazda RX-8 and loves it. Took me for a crazy ride, bursting through traffic and showing off the power. I liked the thrill and pictured myself going up against him with an XT. He thinks I should lease for 3 years, get the thrill of power and give it back, WELL USED. Leased loaded XT will likely yield a lower monthly payment over financed XS. Interesting idea...

Dan

boomerbubba

Funny thing happened at a Subaru dealer in L.I. I took a look at the X and XS (they had no more 04 XT's, but were getting 05's soon.) After talking awhile about my situation, the very nice and knowledgeable salesman actually persuaded me to go non-turbo

Danger, Will Robinson! Salesmen are trained and incented to sell out of inventory first.

He felt the difference of 165 vs. 210 HP was not that great.

Forester enthusiasts are well aware that Subaru deliberately understates the HP rating of the XT, perhaps to protect the image of the WRX STi and the more expensive Outback turbo.

The actual brake horsepower of the stock Forester XT has been estimated after dynamometer testing to be at least 240 HP. It is a screaming sleeper and a huge bang for the buck.

p0926

I agree with Bubba, sounds like the salesman just wants to move on-hand inventory.

He felt the difference of 165 vs. 210 HP was not that great, particularly for my type of stop and go driving

Oh boy that's a real hoot! The 0-60 times for the XT are approx 3 secs faster than the N/A engine (6 something vs 9 something for the automatics). You really need to drive both back to back. Trust me, I've owned both and the difference is instantly recognizable every time you hit the gas and is especially noticeable in stop & go driving.

Around the local streets with many stop signs, the low level X seemed plenty powerful

Well yes it really is. In fact the X certainly will give you the best bang for your buck.

It really boils down to want vs need. The X is probably all the vehicle you really “need” but the XT is the one you've always “wanted”... unbelievably fast, incredibly stealthy and loads of utility. Also, I suspect the XT would eat the RX-8 for lunch around town since it has gobs more power and torque at lower rpms :-)

-Frank

miamixt

first thanks for all the advice. Although "free" for 2005, this "Kit" retails for $59, and the Invoice Price is $39. Very Peculiar, same price for just the Filter? I was quoted around $39 for the Part, and $60 for the Labor, but that was before he felt behind the Glove Box and said I didn't have the "Unit" so he couldn't replace it. I know the filter on my Honda was about $60, and Labor was around $80, said they had to pull part of the Dash, sure the Glove box could be considered part of the Dash?

boomerbubba

The official instructions for installing the interior air filtration kit can be found here.

I haven't done it, but it looks pretty easy.

You can buy genuine Subaru accessories online at any of several online vendors, at below list price. For example, here.

edunnett

Ok, I'm digging up some old messages from larry and miamixt since I'm starting to notice the same burning coolant smell in my own XT. I currently have 7,200 miles on it. I noticed the burning oil and undercoating smell dissipate after about 1000 miles but this is an entirely new smell that is distinctly antifreeze and distinctly new - last 1000-2000 miles. I smell antifreeze after getting out of the car when pulled into the garage after a 30 minute or longer drive. Temp gauge doesn't read anything but normal. Coolant reservoir tank shows at the max line. I cannot see or hear any coolant leaks when I poke around under the hood or under the car. The smell SEEMS to be coming from near the radiator itself toward the front of the engine compartment. I have had no recent work done (other than my oil change at 3500 and this weekend at 7200). There was no coolant in the oil. The only other suspicious thing I noticed was (what I think is an unusual amount of) some white sediment floating in the reservoir tank when I disturbed the overflow tube. I would have expected no sediment at 7200 miles.

Larry and miamixt - what's the latest updates on your coolant smells? Did you also have sediment? Are you still loosing coolant? I don't seem to be losing any though... hm...

Elissa

lfdal

Elissa - bingo - that's pretty much it. Kind of a white sediment you say - I've got it all over the outside of the overflow hose, but only on the portion inside the recovery tank. It seems to stay in the recovery tank however, as I didn't see any floating in the top of the reservoir over the engine.

After a while you may notice a slow, very slow, loss of coolant. I only lose a couple of ounces every couple of weeks. Still smells, however. On several different levels :<).

The smell is in the same spot mine is.

Hope you have better luck than me finding it.

I had the engine shield off a couple of weeks ago the only thing I can notice is that there's a white residue around the outside of the bottom radiator hose where it connects to the radiator.

Right now the bottom hose is my leading candidate.

But - since the dealer says everything's fine, I'm either going to have to do it myself or pay them to do it. Aargh.

Please keep us posted. Nice to know I'm not losing what's left of my mind, but sorry to see you're having a problem as well.

Larry

miamixt

Elissia, I don't think it's a problem, but after taking delivery of the XT I notice that the Tank was low. Bought a Gallon of Anti Freeze, and the XT took about a Baby Bottles worth. Since then I still smell the burning smell of Coolant (different than plain Coolant) and Gasoline too. It has been suggested to tighten all fittings. We must remember the 04 XT was like a prototype being a first Model Year Car. I would like to thank Bubba for the Air Filter Instructions. The link was for an 03 Forester, and another link was for a WRX Filtration unit, however Bubba's Store link brought me to an 04 Filtration Unit for the Forester.

boomerbubba

I would like to thank Bubba for the Air Filter Instructions. The link was for an 03 Forester ...

You're welcome. AFAIK, the instructions and part number for the 2003 and 2004 are exactly the same. I assume the 2005 is the same, too.

edunnett

I did call my dealer about the smell and they said to bring it in for a look-see. I am putting that off now since I'm a warranty glutten and they've been so good to indulge me SO far but I'm a bit afraid to take advantage again w/o paying them for SOME service first... I will wait until I have something more substantial to go in with but will certainly share with the class what I learn when I do. I did ask if they had heard similar complaints and they of course indicated they hadn't. No TSB on the XT yet either.
Elissa

miamixt

hey someone has to be one, why not you? And besides, they should be able to submit any Warranty work for Reimbursement, it's just that they can't "pad" the bill for excess Labor charges, and can only make 40% on any Part instead of 100%+. I just found out those figures (not like it was any real secret) when I had my Front End replaced last Month on the XT. It's a good feeling to have the Dealer know your Car too, and I bet they like you, just an assumption on my part!

edunnett

I did get VERY lucky with my dealer. Since I work nearby and they offer to deliver me to work I go in for every little thing... repeatedly until it's perfect :-)

They must like me because the last thing I took it in for (on 2-3 occassions) was trivial, it was some annoying wind noise that no one but me could hear. And from what I heard them say they put a little workaround in out of their own pocket and said if that didn't work they'd take the whole door/window thing apart under warranty if I brought it in again. Although the service manager did finally hint that sometimes warranty work is at their discression and they are partial to customers who actually PAY for work on occassion. :-) I got the hint, it wasn't obnoxious but they are getting bagels for sure one of these days! :-)

They also probably don't mind me too much since SOA (and I CC the dealer) gets a glowing letter of appreciation for me on every visit. And of course glowing surveys when appropriate.

Elissa

jmbird01

Hi All,

I am in the last stages of negotiation with the dealer and the current offer is as follows:

Black '05 Forester with manual tranny
Options:
Rear Spoiler
Splash Guards
Cargo Net
Rear bumber cover
Security Upgrade
Wheel locks
Armrest ext.
Auto dimming mirror/compass
Cargo tray

Their current offer is $26,941 for all
We want to get them down to $26,500 if possible. They seem like they are willing to deal. I also want to get tinting done. Dealer said around 600 but maybe cheaper outside. That would really make this car(SUV) look sweet. Does the price quoted seem like a deal? Has anyone done any better? Any other options I missed that are worth while?

Thanks,

Jim

jmbird01

Forgot to mention above is the XT w/Premium Pkg

Regards,

Jim

mnf

On the tint $600.00 seems way to high call around and check prices remember they are going to mark it up . I had mine (04xs) done for $200.00 and that was there best quality. As far as the price I am sure there are some members can help you out or look back on older posts.

Good luck and enjoy

boomerbubba

I just looked at www.fitzmall.com, a mid-Atlantic dealer chain with no-haggle, aggressive internet pricing. Essentially the same basic car is offered at under $24,700. Check the options carefully for comparison. They also have a couple of 2004 FXT MTs (no premium package, of course) at under $22,000.

I would advise you to get the tinting done independently, and research your tinting options first because there are tradeoffs to consider. See my recent posts
boomerbubba "Window Tinting" Aug 18, 2004 1:00pm
in the Window Tint topic on the Edmunds forum

bsumpter

Well, finally had something major break on the XT - at 33,000 miles, all of a sudden the rear diff started getting really noisy under light throttle (noticable at speeds of 70 & up). Took it in to the dealer, no hassle at all & it's on order, will be replaced under warranty. Never like it when something breaks, but it's nice to get it handled without any hassle from the dealer. They are also replacing the cruise control module as I've had an intermittent problem with it disconnecting at speeds above 75 but only on trips that were 2+ hours.

That's a big change from my last vehicle, a Dodge Dakota - every single issue I had with it while under warranty took multiple visits to get corrected, it was always "we couldn't duplicate the problem" or "that's within specs"...

jmbird01

Thanks for the info. I will look into it.

ateixeira

Brett: glad to see you're keeping an open mind. I'm sure your dealer is eager to please a patient customer like you.

Good luck and keep us posted?

-juice

jeepguy

I am currently looking at the 2004 2.5XT AT (with 200 kms)

MSRP: $37,195
Financing: 1.8% financing for 5 years

The salesman offered 1900 off of MSRP. Should I be able to do better or should I wait for the 05 models.

saedave

I rejected the Legacy GT for too much turbo lag, but did not drive the turbo Forester. In contrast to the 05 LLBean which I liked, has any one made the comparison? My W8 Passat wagon will be replaced before its warranty ends. The best answer of course would be the Aussie/New Zealand Legacy 3.0 which may never make it here.

samiam_68

Forester XT has absolutely no turbo lag.

paisan

all turbos have lag. it's not a lot on the XT but it's there.

-mike

mtngal

I test drove a Forester XT, and a LLBean back to back Saturday (along with a regular Forester and Outback). I'm not a true car enthusiast, just a person who puts lots of miles on a vehicle and has a rather steep commute. While the XT may have a lag, I didn't notice it at all - it is very smooth (I did test drive a WRX quite a while ago and definitely noticed it's turbo lag).

I was impressed by the extra acceleration with the H6 as compared with the H4 - it would definitely meet my needs. However, I prefer the Forester's seating - the seats aren't as low to the floor of the car. I definitely like the suspension better on the Forester - it isn't quite as soft and "cushy" as the Outback, but it also didn't sway as much going around a rounded freeway onramp. I'm so tired of a vehicle that sways and wallows on curvy, bumpy dirt roads.

I prefer the Forester XT over the LLBean - in fact, I've actually emailed a couple of dealers in my area. Scary thing for me - I'm starting to talk money, even though I still haven't decided what to get. If I get a Subaru, it will be the Forester XT.