Subaru XT Turbo Forester

lfdal

Me neither - even with an automatic its there all the time.

ateixeira

Go drive a manual-equipped Forester XT. Gearing is short, turbo lag is nil. You hit the gas from a dead stop and you outrun a Ferrari Enzo to 30mph. Keep going to 50mph and you are still ahead of a Porsche Cayenne Turbo.

So yeah, the Enzo has more lag off the line.

-juice

ll1

They're very different vehicles that should not be compared.

4-runner has better off-road, cargo room, ?more or less wind noise. It is a modified truck, and will drive like one. Interior design should be at par but depends what you like I guess.

There is no way the 4-runner will touch the FXT's performance on the road. There is no noticeable turbo lag, period. It spools up at least by 2200rpm and it is there when the pedal is 1/8" down. It will run circles around the 4-runner. In fact, it handles better than my Toyota Solara. It is not as quiet as the Solara, but the wind rush is little especially with the roof rack off.

With the FXT, you have a screamer in disguise + "functional space" (more cargo room than BMW X5).

njswamplands

ateixeira

My Xtreme Torque Envy is coming back. And I thought I had tamed it.

-juice

stever

I suspect most people are in golf mode now. Isn't the lift feature relatively new to accomodate the taller bindings? It may not have made it down to the Subaru parts level from Yakima yet.

Steve, Host

sombra

Hello All:

I am finally ready to get my 1st new car ever, and I am trying to go away with a new 2005 FXT. Since this is my 1st time I thought some of you can help with the following issues:

1) Somebody warning to be careful: stock right now is limited, and I may run into one of those cars that had problems early on and were returned to the dealears. I am surprise that such a thing may happen here in the US. Should I give any credit to that warning or is just some kind of baseless comment?

2) I learned to drive manual transmission while in the Army in my original country. It was an old 1969 Jeep truck that everybody treated without mercy. Several years have passed by since. If price really does not really make a difference: Should I stay away from manual, or jump into it? I would like to be able to tow a light trailer to the mountains from time to time, perhaps in snow conditions, so I kind of believe that manual will give me better response, but I am not sure.

3) I will need to install a hitch for the trailer thing. Should I ask the dealer to install it, or look for alternatives somewhere else? My concerns, as with any accessory, is to know what is the right price to pay, and what may invalidate the warranty

Finally, the new models are arriving soon. All things considered: SFXT 2005 or 2006? That is the last question.

Thanks in advance guys,

Sombra

p0926

Greetings Sombra,

In answer to your questions:

1) That sounds like a urban legend to me and as far as I know, is totally baseless.

2) First off, test drive both and see which you prefer. 2nd, There's ceratinly nothing wrong with a manual and it will give you a little better response. 3rd, an automatic is actually better for towing (no worries about clutch slipage).

3) You can almost always get accessories installed cheaper than what the dealer will want. Of course there is the convenience feature that the dealer provides and you may get them to put one on for a good price if it's part of the purchase negotiations. Regardless, there aren't any warranty concerns with installing a hitch.

4) You're going to get a better deal on an 05 but it also boils down to what's still available on the dealer lots and how much you like the changes Subaru made for 06. So really, it's your call.

Good luck and let us know what you end up with.

Frank

cmuniz

I agree 100% with post 5974 above. This is a great vehicle with very few complaints so you don't have to worry about getting the "wrong" one. Take your time when you shop and try several - manual vs automatic, premium vs standard, 05 vs 06 and then pick the one you like best for your price/value/utility needs. Any decision you make will be a good one. As for the trailer hitch - get a quote from dealer and then shop around. A good trailer hitch installer can do a good job cheaper than dealer. I have an automatic and think it's a great choice for snow conditions, but some here prefer manual for their own reasons.

escortpower

"3rd, an automatic is actually better for towing (no worries about clutch slipage)."

How do you figure that Frank?
Dunno about the US but here -
- XT Manual Towing Capacity 1800kg
- XT Auto Towing Capacity 1600kg

Also the prices in towpacks were Man $530 vs Auto $980 (cost of Trans Cooler bumps up price). And towbars genuine vs non-genuine was $20 difference.

Craig

escortpower

Can someone please explain to me how the car warranty system works in the US. I have read many posts about warranty and wether they are good or not. But haven't really got a grasp of what you pay for etc.....

Does it mean servicing is included in the price?

Does it cover roadside breakdown and towing etc..?

Is it from the Dealer of from a third party?

Hopefully someone can shed some light so I can understand it better.

Craig

bluesubie

He's referring to the fact that since you don't have to slip the clutch it will probably be easier to tow with, even though the manual has a higher capacity.

No OEM towbars or tranny coolers are available in N. America.

-Dennis

ateixeira

Industry standard here goes pretty much like this:

1 year/12k mile adjustment period: including wipers, fit and finish issues, clutch, almost everything except tires I think (those carry a seperate warranty)

3/36 bumper to bumper warranty: includes all the items except wear-and-tear like brake pads, clutch, etc.

5/60 powertrain warranty: covers internal engine components and transmission.

The car has to be serviced according to schedule to keep the warranty valid.

-juice

ateixeira

I think the auto tranny models get an engine oil cooler, not a tranny cooler, for towing. Or it might just be standard on all US models.

-juice

p0926

Juice- I think he's talking about extended warranties. In which case the answer is it depends on the warranty and what one covers can vary widely. Most cover parts and labor and may or may not have a deductible. I don't think they cover roadside assistance but I could be wrong. You definitely only want to get one backed by the manufacturer since the aftermarket ones have an extremely poor track record of actually paying a claim.

-Frank

ateixeira

Ah, sorry.

The Subaru Gold warranty we have has zero deductible and basically covers everything under the Bumper-to-bumper warranty for the full term. Ours is 7/100, so we're pretty much covered.

And yes, that includes roadside assistance for the full 7 years or 100k miles. So even if the wife locks herself out or runs out of gas, help is on the way for free. Plus they tow to the nearest dealer.

Of course Murphy's Law will surely apply and we'll never actually use it.

But if that's the case you get a refund.

Our old friend Patti is now in charge of the program so I have no worries at all about them honoring any future claims.

-juice

once_for_all

juice, say again, what refund?

I know we had this humungous discussion a year and a half ago and I walked away thinking that was just someone's wishful thinking.

Can you tell me where that part is in the contract?

John

sombra

OK guys:

Many thanks to all of you who replied to my inquire, specially to Frank who was the fastest one. I already scheduled my driving tests (manual and automatic models) for this coming week. I will keep you posted.

Sombra

subearu

I followed the advice on here about using M1 10w-30 in the F-XT to avoid valve noise and whatnot and have been pleased with it so far. I've been using 5w-30 M1 and 0w-20 M1 (now relabeld 5w-20 M1) in DWs vehicle - an '02 MPV. OEM requirement is 5w-20 (Ford, Honda, and ChryCo spec), but 5w-30 is also acceptable per a TSB from Mazda/Ford. I've been using synthetic in it for 2 years with good results, since about 7k miles. And never any valve noise until a couple weeks after it's recent change to 5w-30 M1. The vehicle now has about 29k miles on it. It's DWs ride, she doesn't *beat* it or play games with the rev limiter either

The noise is only at startup (either cold or after sitting for a few hours) for a few minutes and only appears when the engine is under load (in gear). It's a single TICK TICK TICK that seems to happen about 1x per second (at least at idle in gear). Then it quiets on it's own and the engine is fine.

My thought is that the M1 is having a similar effect as it did for those who used it in their F-XT or other Subie turbo. Should I jump up to 10w-30 for it too? Or would switching oil brands and keeping the OEM spec weight 5w-30 be more successful? I know it's a bit O/T, but I thought it was a bit related to those having some valve noise in their turbo's with M1.

-Brian

bluesubie

Trying 5W30 and 10W 30 didn't make a difference in my wife's OB. I only tried conventional and synthetic blend though. Some folks say thinner is better for noise because the oil is circulating faster earlier. Some say thicker because it cushions better between the engine internals.

M1 10W30 is thicker at start-up than the 5W30, so maybe that will take care of the noise in your case since it happens only at start up. Castrol GTX Start Up is a Group II oil with Group IV (ester) synthetics added (even though they don't call it a blend). The esters are polarized so they cling to the engine better. I've read comments from others that say the Start Up worked for them, although it didn't help the OB. I don't think anything will help the OB though.

If you're looking for the thickest 30 weight, go with German Castrol Syntec 0W30 from Autozone. Although it might be too thick for the MPV. Are you running 5-7k between oil changes? If not, I would use a conventional or synthetic blend in the MPV. Either Mobil or Castrol's conventional oils or blends will be thicker than Mobil 1 if you're comparing 30 weights. Check out the Product Data Sheets on their web sites.

-Dennis

once_for_all

how funny, I have an '03 XS Forester and the dw drives the '02 MPV. I switched the MPV to 5w30 Mobil 1 at about 3,000 miles in the MPV and it did quieten the start-up clatter.

It used to be normal for hydraulic lifters to clatter until they filled up with oil. I don't get too concerned about tic-tic noises if they go away in a couple minutes when the metals have heated up.

John

ateixeira

I think I tuned out after about 500 messages on the subject. It went on and on forever!

We've used the roadside assistance portion so I doubt I'd be eligible for a refund. Besides, we plan to sell the car with some warranty still left as a strong selling point.

-juice

bluesubie

I don't get too concerned about tic-tic noises if they go away in a couple minutes when the metals have heated up.

Neither do I after getting an exellent used oil analysis report on the OB. From the analysis comments:

"Everything looks very good in the initial sample from this engine. All wear read well below average, which is a good indication of normal wearing parts and careful operation. The universal averages show normal wear after about 3,500 miles on the oil. Insolubules (oil oxidation due to heat, use and blowby) were low at 0.4%, showing good oil filtration. No fuel dilution or anti-freeze was found. Silicon was not excessive at 11 ppm, so we think your air filtration is still getting the job done. At 70,848 total miles, this engine appears to be doing well."

kens

Brian,

One other option would be M1 0W40. M1 10W30 is a great product (quite shear stable from what I've read), but it's on the thin side for a 30 weight oil.

If you look at your owner's manual, you'll see that although 5W30 is the recommended grade (primarily for fuel economy), 10W30 and 10W40 are listed as approved weights for the listed temperature ranges. As long as it's not freezing outside, any of these weights should work fine. In fact, Subaru engines seem to do well with almost any oil.

M1 0W40 is on the thinner side of a 40 weight oil and provides very good cold startup properties due to it's 0 rating so it has a very wide usable range for our engines. I read favorable results from other 2.5 turbo owners so I've recently tried it in my Legacy GT. So far, I have noticed that it does seem to keep things a bit more quiet than with the previous M1 5W30 I was using. Valve noise and turbo spool noise both are less noticeable with 0W40.

Ken

once_for_all

probably good ideas, Ken, but Mazda warranty won't stand behind either of those oils. I have already been chastised by Mazda for using 5W30 even thought they have issued a TSB for it. They say that 5W20 is the engine's requirement, and that is that. You might note, this 3.0 liter DuraTec engine by Ford is an excellent engine, but it is also on the "dirty" side. Ford (and Mazda) use the lighter weight oil to make them less polluting.

John

subearu

Thanks for all the replies guys.

Ken - do note I'm inquiring about my MPV, which specs 5w-20 (and 5w-30 per a TSB John elluded to) oil only. For my F-XT, I'll use 10w-30 M1 for now, but I have some time to think of what viscosity I'll use come Sept/Oct when I change the oil.

I change the oil every 6 months (2x per year), which is about 5k miles, on both cars.

For the MPV: I think I'll probably just go to a different brand of full synth 5w-30. I'll have to review some more of the product specs you guys referred to.

-Brian

once_for_all

I use the M1 5W30 in both cars and do both at 7,500 miles. Crawling underneath the cars only 4 times a year is worth the $3.99 (sale price) of M1.

John

kens

Brian,

Oops. My bad. I thought you were talking about your FXT.

Ken

subearu

Oh man, reading those product spec sheets at mobil1 and castrol didn't really help - I don't really know what to make of the numbers. :confuse:

I can't find a spec sheet on M1 0w-20 (now 5w-20) either to see how it compares to 5w-30 and the other 5w-20 stuff.

I suppose I could go to a synth blend for the summer in the MPV and then go back to 5w-20 synth for the winter. Decisions, decisions. I again appreciate the responses and apologize for the slightly off-topic-ness of this discussion.

What are those F-XT synthetic folks running in the winter months?

-Brian

girlwhogolfs

Yes, my dash is squeaking in the housing around the spedo and tach area. It is worse when it is cold out. Dealer is going to have to fix this, New car for this much moola shouldn't be doing this...

bluesubie

The thickness of oil is measured in centistokes and the spec sheets on the web sites list two temps. Oil thickness at 100C and thickness at 60C. The SAE has a range of acceptable viscosities for each weight. A 30 weight oil can be anywhere from 9.3 cst's to 12.5. All M1 30 weights come in at about 10 cst's (thin 30 weight) and German Castrol Syntec 0W30 comes in at around 12.1 (thick 30 weight). Both 30 weights, but the Syntec is thicker at 100C.
This Advance Auto Parts link has good info about viscosity.
http://www.advanceautoparts.com/english/youcan/html/ccr/ccr20010101ov.html

Also check bobistheoilguy.

Of course the thickness doesn't necessarily tell you the full story about how well the oil will perform, but it's a starting point. The Syntec is more shear stable than M1 30 weights due to the types of PAO's/esters added. Conventional oils are usually slightly thicker than synthetics. I see that Mobil removed the M1 spec sheets. They're probably updating them with the GF-4 info. A virgin oil analysis showed that GF4 M1 5W30 is a little thicker (11.0) than the GF-3 formula.

-Dennis

subearu

I did find the product specs for M1 at http://www.exxonmobil.com/pdssearch/search.asp?chooseLanguage=en&CountryValue=USA though not for the 5w-20 M1 or 0w-20 M1

-Brian

samiam_68

What are those F-XT synthetic folks running in the winter months?

I use Quaker State Full Synthetic 5W-30 year round. Change the oil every 7,500 miles and never have to add one drop between changes.

2004 FXT 5-speed.

subearu

Decided to put in some Motorcraft Synthetic blend 5w-20 in the MPV. Noise seemed to subside a bit, but it is still there. Almost sounds like an exhaust leak from underneath the van, especially at startup with a sort of exhaust rumble to it. The noise is coming from the front bank. I'll probably have to take it in to get checked out, if nothing else.

Again, thanks for the replies.

FWIW, I haven't had to add oil to any of my vehicles on M1 - including my previous Outback. 6 months is about 5k miles or so for us in both vehicles.

-Brian

bluesubie

Normally you can access the product data sheets at the bottom of the page that shows the oil.
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_5W-20.aspx

I believe they've taken them down to update them. M1 no longer makes a 0W20.

-Dennis

njswamplands

bluesubie

This is more on-topic than some Crew Discussions.

Anyway, there have been some folks here that run M1 5W20 in their Foresters in the winter (which is not good, IMHO).

-Dennis

subearu

:P I did apologize for the discussion. But I thought it was relevant since folks here had talked about some noise in their F-XT's when using M1 in 5w-30 (which is exactly what our MPV was using). And I was also discussing what choices for synth in the winter. So, yes, it wasn't a topic *directly* about the F-XT.

:rolls eyes:

-Brian

escortpower

Just wondering if anyone knows about the location of a possible handsfree car kit power outlet. On most Aussie and European cars they have one. It usually has a power constant, a power accessory and an earth. Any help would be appreciated as I am trying to install a bluetooth carkit.

Craig.

subearu

Off-topic MPV: More listening to the noise is leading me to believe it's an exhaust leak on the front manifold. From the top of the engine, it appears as a tick-tick-tick. But, in front and underneath, it sounds exactly like an exhaust leak phhhhttt-phhhtt-phhttt. So, it would seem like the fuss about the oil could be nothing at all. It'll get checked out next week at the dealer.

On topic: My F-XT turned 1 year old this week. Only 8k miles though. 21mpg overall. And still a grin every time I drive it! :shades:

-Brian

lfdal

This is outside of the mods forums, but I just installed a black GrillCraft intake screen on my Red 04 XT today. Only took about an hour or so and looks great.
My intercooler has taken quite a beating, and I'm hoping this will give it some relief.

For anyone who is watching their intercooler fins get mashed by road throw, this might be something you're interested in.

Larry

subearu

I just have a black aluminum screen cut to fit and sitting atop the IC on my XT. So far my IC is in good shape and has no bent fins.

Got a link for that GrillCraft screen or a pic?

-Brian

p0926

Hey I'll trade my mpg for your miles driven!

The odo on my FXT is just about to hit 29k and it's barely 16 months old
On a positive note... the overall mpg avg seems to be holding steady at 24.2 :P

-Frank

edunnett

Perfect timing on the syn oil discussion! I checked out the board (first time in months since work has been so hectic!) to find out what the consensus was on M1 10W30 and low and behold (!) there was a running discussion on this topic. Thanks all, looks like I'll be able to pull out of the garage after all! :-)
Elissa

lfdal

Wish I'd thought to put a temporary screen over my intercooler while I was deciding whether or not to spend the bucks on the grillcraft.

If you visit grillcraft.com then look for SUB-1715. Its actually the same as the 02/03 WRX's. Does look pretty sharp. Black went well with the red, but they have silver as well. If you were to decide on one, shop prices on the net. The Grillcraft site's prices can certainly be beaten.

HTH
Larry

corkfish

Anyone know the wheel weight for the stock rims? I'm thinking of getting a lighter aftermarket set. Enhance performance without affecting the warranty! Can you save at least 50 pounds with a light set same size?

once_for_all

Not likely at all. The wheel (rim and tire) hardly weighs 20 pounds by itself, most of it in the tire portion.

These alloy wheels are incredibly light. Makes tire rotation a breeze.

John

corkfish

That's kind of what I thought, but wanted confirmation.

bkaiser1

Actually, each wheel and tire together probably weigh closer to 40-45 pounds. Tires alone weigh around 20-25 pounds each, then add the weight of a wheel (20 pounds easily for an OEM alloy).

Weight was a huge concern for me when I switched from my OEM 16" wheels to 17" wheels on my WRX, as I didn't want to add any unnecessary weight. I ended up putting the STi BBS wheels on with a light set of Pirelli PZero Nero tires and saved a few pounds (at each corner) over the stock 16" setup.

On your Forester, you could easily save a few pounds per corner just by switching to lighter 16" wheels, but it would likely be on the order of <5 pounds per corner and not a 50 pound total savings like you'd hoped for. Five pounds, though, is a huge improvement and you will almost certainly notice a better (smoother) ride than you did with the OEM setup. With less mass for the shocks/springs to try and control, they will more effectively be able to do their jobs.

Brian

ateixeira

No fair, Frank, you're teasing me with each of those reports! You know I suffer from Xtreme Torque Envy. :sick:

Weight sounds low to me, also. My 16"x7" alloys with slightly bigger tires weigh about 44 lbs.

20 lbs for the rims alone, I'd believe. Rims and tires, no way.

Maybe KG? Not lbs?

-juice