Chrysler 300/300C

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Comments

  • stephenstephen Member Posts: 131
    Having had a car in 1962 that had a limited slip differential, that is something I would never want again in a car. And my perception is that traction control performs the function of limited slip, so there is no need for both.

    GM has a mechanically locking differential available on pickup trucks that they claim provides superior traction to a limited slip differential, but it only locks at low speeds. It works like a ratchet so that turns are possible without shuddering.

    stephen
  • carcom2carcom2 Member Posts: 212
    Think I'm going to order my 300C this Saturday. Still deciding between Magnesium and Midnight Blue. Am leaning toward Blue with the darker carpet. They're both nice.

    It was coincidental today while I was going to a meeting a saw 1 300 today parked in front of another. One with CT plates-Black and the other with PA plates-Satin Jade. First time I've seen them parked in public.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I'll tell you what Mercedes-Benz knows, "Thar's money in them thar hills." If the consumers want AWD, then give them AWD and keep quiet about the fact that AWD is not the panacea it cracked up to be.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,751
    In 1962? Was it really a limited-slip or was it like positraction (permanently locked)? What car are we talking about?

    just curious. thanks.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,751
    Yeah, you're right. Even Lambo is only thinking about money when they make their AWD cars, right?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Lambo is a different issue entirely. The name of that game is to get gobs and gobs of power transmitted to the pavement in a car with a VERY high power to weight ratio. The fact is that even a 300C will not have enough juice to REALLY use AWD. Now, take your run of the mill E320 4-Matic, the only advantage it will have over its E320 sibling is that it will be able to accelerate faster in slippery conditions. To my way of thinking at least, who wants to Go when you can't Stop or Turn?

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • soozpksoozpk Member Posts: 205
    Just to mention, AMC beat the big boys twenty-odd years ago when they went
    four wheel drive on their Hornets. At that time it didn't make sense on the sedan,
    but didn't seem too bad on the Sportabout wagon.
    AWD on a 300 would push up the price of a C to 40,000, AND push down the
    gas mileage to the point that the variable displacement engineering would be
    out the window.
  • stephenstephen Member Posts: 131
    The 1962 car that I had with the limited slip rear differential was a '62 Plymouth Savoy Super Stock 413 Max Wedge that I bought new.

    That car needed the limited slip differential which was called "sure grip". If you floored the accelerator at, say, 40 mph on dry pavement, it would spin both back wheels (with the stock tiny little tires that came on the car from the factory - which I wore down to nothing before the car had 300 miles on it).

    stephen
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,751
    thanks.
    another bit of trivia for the back of the brain. ;)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,751
    true enough.

    but AWD is not ONLY good for accelerating faster in slippery conditions. It is also quite good at getting over that hill of ice and snow the plows leave at the bottom of my driveway as well as getting up an icey or snowy hill. This is something I'm faced with every snowstorm and have no problem getting my wife's AWD up and down our driveway while my FWD is stuck at the bottom until I shovel and salt.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "This is something I'm faced with every snowstorm and have no problem getting my wife's AWD up and down our driveway while my FWD is stuck at the bottom until I shovel and salt."

    Try taking your FWD up the driveway in reverse, you might be surprised. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,751
    yeah, the surprise will be when I bury my tailpipe through the snowbank and into the pavement. ;)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • peder59peder59 Member Posts: 3
    Some people will like the looks for the 300, some will not. When we pass a car that I like, I ask my wife whether she likes it. Often she will mention, that it is too round, or too square.

    Personally, I believe that the 300 looks great. It shows "attitude", something that most cars don't these days. They all have to be mainstream.

    I think that Chrysler has made a bold move, and I think they will be rewarded. I am 6'5", and basically have to buy a BMW745 or a MB S430-500 to find a sedan that I sit comfortably in. I can now buy a 300C with most options for less than half of what I would otherwise have to pay. All I am waiting for is to locate a model, try to see if my big corpus can fit, and then place the order.

    Unlike South California where the 300 has been spotted, here in the San Francisco bay area, the dealers I have spoken with know less about this car than I do from reading all these good message exchanges. Quite incredible poor marketing job for a manufacturer that wants to turn losses into profits, and they have a product that will help them.

    peder59
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    or pavement or anything else. Or if you do, turn off your car immediately ... deadly carbon monoxide builds up so quickly ... :(
  • tornado25tornado25 Member Posts: 267
    "Because standard differentials send power to the wheel with the least resistance. In that scenario, Traction Control uses the brakes on the spinning wheel to cause it to have enough resistance for the differential to shift power to the wheel on dry pavement."

    Ah. Ok, thank you. That makes sense and I understand. I guess even with that in mind, it's still not totally useful here in WI, where roads are typically totally ice/snow covered or once plowed/treated, totally dry. A few weeks ago, we received significant snow during relatively cold weather, so even after decent plowing, only heavily travelled streets were "clean". On any other street, neither traction control or stability control would have helped in the most difficult situation--launch from a stop sign. AWD is the best in that situation to create the momentum needed.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Okay, fair enough. ;-) That's where the third element of winter driving comes in. Winter tires, which should not ever be confused with the things that I grew up with in Michigan back in the 1960s. Modern winter tires are an absolute marvel and have to be experienced to be believed.

    Over on the BMW boards, I had been one of the proponents of not ordering the "Sport Package" in favor of the standard setup which included wheels shod with All-Season tires. Driving around in New Jersey, where I lived at the time, seemed to prove out my arguments. Then I ordered a 530i with the Sport Package and at the same time moved to New Hampshire. Probably not too smart. ;-)

    Once in New Hampshire, I quickly realized that while the All-Seasons certainly had an advantage over the summer performance tires on my 530i, they were still no match for the 114 inches of snow we had up here last winter. Initially I only put the Arctic-Alpin tires on the 530i and was so stunned at the difference in the performance that I ordered the same tires for my wife's car, and when we bought a third last summer, winter tires for that one as well. FWIW, I also went to the boards where I had been such a proponent of All-Season tires and posted a retraction. Needless to say, I caught a fair amount of flack and good natured teasing for that. ;-)

    The following is no exaggeration:

    Between 25-Dec-2002 and 8-Jan-2003, we had nearly 50 inches of snow and ice fall around here. During one of the 18" falls, the forecast changed and was then predicting significant accumulations of ice and wide spread power outages. I figured I had better get another 5 gallons of gas for my generator and headed out in the 530i with an easy 14" having already fallen and a heavily rutted 6-8 inches on the main road, which by the way is very hilly and winding.

    The first thing that I saw upon turning toward the gas station was a police car off the road in a ditch at the bottom of a hill and a dozen or so cars attempting to climb said hill, getting nowhere fast. I just pulled over into the left lane and drove right on up that hill as sedately as if I was on dry pavement. My car with those winter tires was so composed that after a mile or so, I reeled in a conga line of 4WD truck and Suburban type vehicles, which I had to slow down for. :-/

    Based upon the tests of a couple of years ago in the car magazine that I read, the only thing that beats a RWD car shod with winter tires is an AWD car shod in the same way.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • stephenstephen Member Posts: 131
    We get so much snow here in Northern Michigan, snow tires are unnecessary. Snow removal equipment takes care of the snow before it becomes a problem.

    I have a snow plow truck to plow the driveway (which I've had to do 30 times in the last 30 days) and the county has trucks to plow every road and melt whatever is left with salt.

    Other than relatively rare blizzard conditions, you can go anywhere any time in any vehicle with all season tires.

    stephen
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    Shipo - Many of the people who were active on the old NAISSO Impala SS ('94 - '96) forum reported similar experiences with the excellent winter tires now available. The Impala came with 255/50/ZR17 tires - not too useful on slick pavement.

    I think that the new 300C will be the next Impala SS - a full-sized, American branded, large, four door sedan with excellent power. Of course the 300C will be quicker - both weigh approximately 4,000 pounds, but the stock SS only had 260HP / 330 Ft.-Lbs. vs the 340HP / 390 Ft. Lbs of the 300C. The 300C will also probably be produced in far greater numbers, and is far fancier.

    I read an article somewhere on the HEMI brand. It stated that D-C only sold a small percentage of the old Durangos with the 4.7 V8, but that about half of new Durangos are equipped with the HEMI.
  • fastdriverfastdriver Member Posts: 2,273
    sandbags in the trunk for weight! ;-))

    http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosconsumer/0402/25/f01-73709.htm

    fastdriver
  • soozpksoozpk Member Posts: 205
    My dealer called, and said that he has both good and bad news about my 300C.

    The good news, my car was built, finished, done.

    The bad news, it's sitting in a huge quonset someplace in Brampton, and
    won't be released until April, when Chrysler is planning to run a tremedous
    advertizing blitz. It seems they want to release all the vehicles at once
    to coincide with this ad campaign. No sense fighting to get the car here,
    as they're not going to ship only one vehicle.
  • fastdriverfastdriver Member Posts: 2,273
    stephen-

    Just found this in the 300 section of Edmunds New Cars-

    "5.7L displacement single overhead cam (SOHC)
    V8 cylinder configuration gas engine
    16 valves 340 hp @ 5000 rpm
    390 ft-lbs. @ 4000 rpm premium unleaded fuel"

    I don't think the Dodge HEMI in the trucks is the same as the 300 HEMI.

    fastdriver
  • emaleemale Member Posts: 1,380
    fastdriver,

    edmunds is wrong...the hemi in the 300 is also an OHV design just like the truck. main difference is that the car hemi has MDS(multi-displacement system).
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    The article on Chrysler placing loaded 300s and other models in rental fleets to gain exposure also stated that the program would begin in April.

    I wonder if they will also unveil a Dodge sedan version of the car (Charger??) at the New York auto show?
  • stephenstephen Member Posts: 131
    Fastdriver, since the hemi in the 300C has 5 less hp than the truck hemi, I have to assume that it will have the same or slightly less octane requirement.

    Also, the 3.5 V6 has a little higher compression ratio, and it calls for mid-grade fuel. So I think edmunds is mistaken on the premium fuel requirement.

    A 2000 Cadillac STS has more hp per cubic inch than the 300C and factory specs for that car call for regular 87 octane fuel.

    stephen
  • intrepidationintrepidation Member Posts: 45
    Yeah, I can attest to the fact studless snows are downright amazing. I have some Yokohama Guardex 600's on steel wheels for the '95 Intrepid ES 3.5 the 300C *might* replace, someday, and the difference is night and day.

    Don't worry greatly about pavement damaging your exhaust and CO entering the cabin. You'll be higher than normal due to the compacted snow, and if you smell exhaust, which you will, just open a window.

    The Intrepid was near unstoppable in snow when we lived in the high country of Colorado. 8" was all she could handle before the rear bumper started plowing it, and the driveway was like scaling a mountain, so going out forward just wasn't gonna happen. Given my druthers, I picked the Intrepid over either the Grand Scarakee we had or the Suzuki Grand Lametara which replaced it. Sure, they were good when the going got truly bad, but handled so much worse, it wasn't a close call most of the time.

    FWIW, *all* semi-modern cars are overhead valve (OHV). Overhead *cam*, that's different, and I was hoping for dual OHC...resulting in four camshafts, total, but I knew I was dreaming.

    My wife's 2002 RX300 has both AWD and some funky vehicle control system, and when we had ice here in January, I *tried* to get it to misbehave in an iced over parking lot, but to no avail. Just wouldn't let me do anything "fun" with it. That's what RWD and traction control switched "off" is for.... ;-)

    As it is, the 300C has a hard job ahead of it in my automotive family, as the Intrepid is paid off, has finished it's 100K mile blues, I'm not worried about door dings, it is the best hand-me-down car I've ever had, and it has to be one of the few oversteering FWD cars ever made...probably the only 4-door sedan which does it.

    Mmmmm, oversteer....

    Used to be M45Guy...then logging in changed....
  • stephenstephen Member Posts: 131
    "...my car was built, finished, done...it's sitting in a huge quonset someplace in Brampton, and won't be released until April, when Chrysler is planning to run a tremendous advertising blitz."

    In the fifties, cars would be delivered to the dealers before introduction dates, and before any actual models appeared at auto shows. The Chrysler 300 was at auto shows starting in early January. Anyone who cares has seen the car or at least detailed pictures and descriptions of it. Pricing and options lists are on Chrysler's web site.

    If the factory isn't releasing sold cars, the only logical reason would be one or more unresolved component quality issues. They're not going to admit that, obviously. They would naturally come up with some excuse, and flimsy as it is, I guess the April advertising campaign is as good as any.

    stephen
  • dale48dale48 Member Posts: 72
    Stephen
    You could be right. It sounds odd not to ship a "sold car".
    It could also be true that they want to time the release with the roll out campaign. Also, don't forget the 50th anniversary aspect.
    Another possiblity is that it relates to the bottom line. They may be capitalizing expenses up until the release and then expensing them. Delaying may improve the bottom line for this project.
    I was actually happy for Soozpk, that his car existed and hoping mine would be built in time for this April roll out.
  • emaleemale Member Posts: 1,380
    stephen,

    chrysler is holding back the LX cars until the end of this month to try and make sure there are no issues with them before they start shipping.

    plus...there was a problem with a bolt on the connecting rods in some of the 3.5l engines. that affected pacifica production but not sure if it affected the LX cars or not.
  • soozpksoozpk Member Posts: 205
    I questioned the logic with the dealer. What better advertizing can you get than having your
    new vehichles running up and down the street. When I ordered mine in Jan, he said
    that the dealership had one coming in Feb. I asked him about that one and was told that's
    been put on hold also. One would think that Chrysler would like to have the vehicles in place
    at the dealerships as soon as this so-called tremendous ad campaign starts. Plus, the special
    order vehicles placed by customers should have been made exempt from this boondoggle
    decision. I did some checking and the ad agency doing this blitz is a German outfit called
    BBDO Detroit. I need to follow up on that more and see what's happening.

    I hope there's no mice in that quonset......LOL
  • soozpksoozpk Member Posts: 205
    Where did you find that information on holding the 300s back from delivery??
  • enygma6enygma6 Member Posts: 35
    "Dear xxxxxx xxxxxx,

    Thank you for expressing interest in the totally new 2005 Chrysler 300. A powerful, luxurious sedan featuring world-class technology. It possesses a bold presence that hasn't been seen in nearly 50 years. It is truly the return of the Great American automobile.

    In March, you'll be among the first to receive all the details on this elegant machine, and information on a special launch event at your local Chrysler dealer.

    You'll also receive information on pricing, which we think you'll find to be equally impressive.

    Again, thank you very much for your interest. Please feel free to contact one of our knowledgeable product specialists at 1-800-CHRYSLER
  • enygma6enygma6 Member Posts: 35
    "... (8 a.m. to midnight EST) or visit us at Chrysler.com/300 for product details.

    Sincerely,
    Jeff Bell
    Vice President, Chrysler"

    sorry for the second post, but I accidentally submitted before I was finish with the first.
    I haven't ordered one yet (still making up my mind and won't buy anything without a test drive) but I did sign up on the chrysler site a month or so back for more info, and got the form letter in the mail today.

    Looks like they're gearing up for a big push sometime, probably end of March/early April.

    Personally I'm leaning more toward the Dodge Magnum (I want a wagon), but I love the interior styling of the 300C. If the 300C Wagon (with AWD) were coming to the US, I'd probably hold out for it, but I doubt that'll be happening this year.
  • emaleemale Member Posts: 1,380
    soozp,

    don't remember exactly where i read it...but chrysler said they were gonna build batches of the LX cars and then hold them for awhile before shipping to dealers. that way they can try to ensure a defect free launch. this is not something new...the japanese do this quite frequently with new vehicles.

    holding them back to check for defects is a good decision imo. i know some of you want your guys badly...but wouldn't you rather have one that is hopefully trouble free?
  • emaleemale Member Posts: 1,380
    btw, the batch/hold thing is only for the first month or so of public consumption production...then once everything is ironed out it's full speed ahead.

    btw, the initial buzz on media preview drives of the LX suggests they are phenomenal!
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    Someone on the Ford Five Hundred / Mercury Montego discussion said that they sat in the 300 at the Detroit show and that it has "VERY limited visibility, and the cars seem VERY small inside for their huge actual size." Has anyone else sat in a 300? If so, what did you think?
  • soozpksoozpk Member Posts: 205
    knowledgeable product specialists......hmmm, ask them if the trunkwell can accept a conventional spare, and they aren't too knowledgable..........
  • soozpksoozpk Member Posts: 205
    fsmmcsi wrote: Their huge actual size.

    I have limited space in my attached garage, so I compared the 300 to the stats of my '94 LeBaron Landau, the 300 is about a foot longer, and eight inches wider. Not really that long a vehicle then.
  • stephenstephen Member Posts: 131
    I sat in the car several times at the Detroit show. I would say it is the same size as my Seville STS. The visibility out the back is adequate, but not great, about the same as the 300M.

    stephen
  • bph74bph74 Member Posts: 6
    New here...been reading for awhile though. I found this review of the 300C at autoweek...thought you'd all like to see it.

    http://www.autoweek.com/search/search_display.mv?port_code=autowe- ek&cat_code=coverstory&content_code=04277743&Search_T- ype=STD&Search_ID=1934576&record=3

    Brad
  • fastdriverfastdriver Member Posts: 2,273
    bph74-

    Thanks for the link to that article. This is the first time I heard about this-

    "If you want to stretch it near $40k, wait for fall when all-wheel-drive models arrive. Otherwise,you can start taking delivery in April."

    AWD- interesting! ;-))

    fastdriver
  • stephenstephen Member Posts: 131
    Excellent test drive article! Thanks!

    I noted with trepidation the mention of a "wheel hop" issue. I hope the 300C isn't going to be plagued with another run of bad tires like the 300M was. That was no fun at all.

    stephen
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    bph74 - Thank you for the link. We know the press preview was Monday 2/23 in Palm Springs, so it will now be fun to watch for the other reviews and test drives - Car & Driver, Motor Trend, Road & Track, and the web sites. I wonder which will be first with a real test drive?

    Stephen - I also worry about the wheel hop, but if you are not from California, you don't know about our really bad concrete freeways. The concrete has cuts perpendicular to the lanes every few feet. In many areas, between the cuts, each section of pavement has a dip in the middle, then rises to peaks at both ends. This surface causes many vehicles to hop. Even some of our asphalt roads, such as the 241 toll road, are very rough in some areas. However, I want a car designed to deal with these roads, so once I am able to rent a 300C, I will drive it all over the area to check the ride. It might even be worth replacing the 18 inch wheels with 17 inch wheels with 70-series tires (if they fit over the brakes).
  • psterpster Member Posts: 293
    There are hundreds of cars available with every design under the sun....the 300C is well thought out, just as the 300M was....the real issue is mechanical integrity. If the 300C has many of the same problems this owner's 300M has had, I predict Chrysler will fail. The Pacifica is not selling, the Crossfire is not selling....the dealers are screaming for new products. The 300C is make it or break it for Chrysler.
  • oedipus1608oedipus1608 Member Posts: 76
    For the last time, the Pacifica, at 8500 units a month, is the 3rd best selling crossover in the U.S.
  • fastdriverfastdriver Member Posts: 2,273
    oedipus1608-

    What part of the country are you in? I've seen about 5 since the day they came out and one of them was on TV! I don't see any here in CT.

    fastdriver

    PS Where did you get your figures?
  • emaleemale Member Posts: 1,380
    chrysler sold approximately 6500 pacificas in january...and about 8500 in december. here is a link to the january sales:

    http://wwwsg.daimlerchrysler.com/SD7DEV/GMS/TEMPLATES/GMS_PRESS_R- ELEASE/0,2941,0-485-51162-1-1-text-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0,00.html
  • soozpksoozpk Member Posts: 205
    Thanks for the link, Bph74. Inadvertantly, the article answered my long lingering question
    as to whether the trunkwell can hold a conventional spare. The answer is probably that it cannot, as the trunkwell holding the standard compact spare is designed at an angle, which
    folds during a rear 50 mph impact. Thank you again.
  • dale48dale48 Member Posts: 72
    All in all the article was pretty positive. Regular readers tell me, are they pimping or do they really like it?

    I received 3 letters from Chrysler in the last three days. I guess over the last year I told them three times I was interested in info as soon as it was available.

    I happened to check the web site two weeks ago and found out I could go to a dealer and order one, so I did.

    Was I supposed to wait and get a Balloon or something in late March?

    By the way what's so special about the Ford 500
    that they call the 300 homely?

    To each his own.
  • stephenstephen Member Posts: 131
    "No Chrysler, not even the Town & Country extended minivan, has boasted this 120-inch wheelbase since the Imperials of 1926 through the '30s."

    Auto Week evidently forgot about the fifties Chryslers. The '59 Chrysler 300E for example, had a wheelbase of 126 inches.

    stephen
  • barneymbarneym Member Posts: 32
    All I need is the 6.1L engine that everyone keeps asking about and then I want them to drop it into the convertible model that I hope to god is eventually coming and I will be a happy man.
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