Chrysler 300/300C

rcf8000

What Chrysler is doing is no different than what Mercedes does in Europe. The E class ranges all the way from stripper taxis to AMG super performance cars, with a price range much greater than that of the 300 models. Doesn't seem to have hurt Mercedes' image any.

svevar

I don't think that Europeans are as image conscious as Americans. After all, you don't see any stripper E Class taxis here. It would almost certainly hurt their image in the U.S. if Mercedes were to sell cheap cars to taxi and rental fleets.

I don't think Chrysler should build any $23.5K, 2.7L 300 models. Save the low end of the market for Dodge. I believe that three models would be plenty: the $27.5K 300 Touring, the $29.9K 300 Limited, and the $33K 300C.

shipo

If DC doesn't sell the 2.7 model of the 300, then that means far fewer of the LX cars being sold, and that will translate to a much higher tooling cost per unit sold. My guess is that just the elimination of the base 2.7 car would push up the 300C to at least $40K. From my perspective, I think that DC should sell every 300 and every Magnum that they can, thus keeping the cost of the high end car lower for the rest of us.

Best Regards,
Shipo

xmf314

Concerning the narrow gun-slit windows on the 300, I was wondering if Chrysler is planning on producing a 300 Charlton Heston edition.

fastdriver

xmf314-

Mmm......would you need a moonroof in the rear half of the car with reins leading to all those HEMI horses? :-)))

fastdriver

soozpk

I don't see a problem with 300's showing up as rental cars. I seriously doubt the national rental companies would stock Hemi C's; and if they even do use 300's, they will probably be the two lowest trim levels of the series. I rented a few Acclaims / Spirits at airports. and took no offense in that, even though I own a LeBaron.

What I don't wish to see are fleet sales use as in police cars, and taxis. The popular use of Ford's Crown Victoria in police duty "cheapened" that model. They might as well have called
it a Fairlane.

fastdriver

sooxpk-

"The popular use of Ford's Crown Victoria in police duty "cheapened" that model."

It might have cheapened the model, but it certainly didn't hurt their sales!

Why not a HEMI Police Car? They need all the power they can get to capture the crooks! I can see a base 300C with a HEMI engine and police apparatus.

A long time I said that I can see Washington buying the 300C HEMI for the FBI, CIA and the White House. Watch.

fastdriver

xmf314

I wonder if the high beltline and small windows would hinder visibility too much for police use.

You can't catch the evildoers if you can't see 'em.

v8lincolnguy

Aside from limited rental fleets such as Hertz prestige or a small company that specializes in upscale cars, the problem with putting a car in heavy fleet usage is it hurts resale. Look at the Cadillac Deville and Lincoln Town Car. On any given day, you can find a year old "program car" for sometimes nearly half of what the car stickered for when new. Chrysler already has a resale problem, so I think it would be wise to keep 300 rentals at a low level. At least until the car gets established. Now, would I love to see one available at the rental counter next time I travel? You bet!

soozpk

I can't see government vehicles runnning around with bucket seats and floor consoles with
shifters. I always see those type of vehicles as bottom line, no frills, cloth / vinyl interiors
with a column gear selectors. My 2000 Dodge 1500 pickup that I use at work came without
even an AM radio.

fuzzywuzzy

"What Chrysler is doing is no different than what Mercedes does in Europe. The E class ranges all the way from stripper taxis to AMG super performance cars, with a price range much greater than that of the 300 models. Doesn't seem to have hurt Mercedes' image any."

That might work in Europe. Lets see if it works in the USA.

Every 300M, LS, Town Car, or other upscale car I ever rented has been the base version with no options. Can't even rent a V8 Mustang. They are all the V6's. So I don't think the Hemi will make it to rental.

nedc2

--I can't see government vehicles running around with bucket seats and floor consoles with
shifters.

Cop vehicles usually have buckets and consoles, they need them for all the gear that they carry in the car: radar, computers, cameras, etc. I don't know how suitable the new Chryslers would be for police duty though, as I said the visibility seems very poor.

svevar

I agree that there must be a 2.7L LX model to boost volume, but not a 300. Wait for the Dodge sedan and stick the 2.7L in that. I just think that the Chrysler 300 price range is too large and that potential buyers of high end models might be turned off by the fact that someone could buy essentially the same car for $10,000 less.

soozpk

Having four models of the same vehicle to choose from isn't anything new.
Going back to circa '67 here, and if I remember correctly, Plymouth had
four lines of Furys.
  Fury I---No frills, no trim, used a lot for squad cars and taxis. Slant Six was standard.
  Fury II--Nicely put-together base model, with trim, I think it came standard
  with the 318.
  Fury III--Premium uphostery, hardtop (no center pillar between doors), better
  trim, and I think the 383 two barrel was standard.
  Sport Fury---This one was a two door with a beauty of a roofline. I remember the
  auto mags of the day deriding the poor visability. Chrysler and Dodge also shared
  this special roofline. Hard to describe, but the roofline swept back towards the door.
  Wondering what a 300C two-door coupe would look like with such a roofline???

tornado25

"From my perspective, I think that DC should sell every 300 and every Magnum that they can, thus keeping the cost of the high end car lower for the rest of us."

Interesting point. Never really thought of that.

My main concern about this car going into rentals is a very American one--like others said, image. Mercedes in Germany may be known as a widespread, multiple use vehicle company, but in the US, Mercedes means one thing. So, if I buy a 300C and people start seeing 300 2.7L in the rental fleets, most can't be bothered to tell the difference.

Now, as for the presence of 4 trim lines themselves, I'm not so bothered by that, since I know I have the high end model and at least people aren't going to say "isn't that a rental car?" Does that make sense? Or am I talking myself into a circle here?

shipo

"I just think that the Chrysler 300 price range is too large and that potential buyers of high end models might be turned off by the fact that someone could buy essentially the same car for $10,000 less."

I don't know, maybe it's just me; I just don’t see the point. I currently drive a car that can be had in a form that is essentially the same as mine for $5,000 less AND $20,000 more than what I paid. While there is no way I would have spent the extra 20K, I was sorely tempted to spring for another 10K and get mine with a V8 engine. Does that make me a poseur because I didn't get one of the two V8's offered in my car? No. Does my owning a 6 cylinder version cheapen or otherwise lessen the driving or ownership experience for those who opted for the? No.

In any event, I think this discussion is moot. DC will be offering a 2.7 version of the 300, and I seriously suspect that it will find its way into fleet usage.

Best Regards,
Shipo

rayainsw

Currently BMW sells 3-series in this country with list prices ranging from just over $28K (325i) to well over $60K (M3 with a full load of options) - and the uninitiated would likely not see much difference between them.

Who observes that BMW sales seem not to be hurt by this strategy . . .

Cheers,
- Ray
And who further wonders what a $60K 300C might look and perform like . . .

shipo

The last two lines of the paragraph should have read:

"Does my owning a 6 cylinder version cheapen or otherwise lessen the driving or ownership experience for those who opted for one of the V8s? No."

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo

Hmmm, let's see, twin turbo Hemi, 535 HP, 590 lb-ft torque, 6-Speed Manual or SMG, 0-60 in 4.2 and 0-100 in 8.5. Ouch! ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

svevar

I can see your point, but I'm guessing that your car is probably a German luxury model. That would mean that even its base models are relatively upscale, so someone paying $20,000 extra for a fully loaded model likely wouldn't mind the connection to a lesser model because the base model alone is "exclusive." The problem I see with the 300C is that it's going to compete with the Cadillac CTS, Lincoln LS, Acura TL, Infiniti G35, MB C-Class, and BMW 3/5 Series—all cars with a low to mid 30's base price and no "lesser" models. Buying one of the competitor's cars brings instant exclusivity, as buying a 300M once did, whereas the 300C will be more like a well-optioned middle-market sedan than a true flagship.

intrepidspirit

Amen!

ruski

hey the car Stallone drove in Cobra had poor visibility, yet he still kicked everyone's behind.

soozpk

Has anyone gotten hold of a 300 catalog / brochure yet??
My dealership has told me numerous times now that "they'll be in soon",
but they never show. They did give me, at least, a fold-out card meant for
dealerships that explains the advantages of RWD over FWD. The only picture
is a front end view, the same shot used on Mopar's "Mystery Car" website.
When people at work asked me what I bought, they all say they never heard
of this model. I see Mopar hired two new people to run it's ad campaigns.
I haven't seen anything yet.........and it's already in production.

rcf8000

I remember last year when the Pacifica came out the dealers had cars before they had brochures. I don't get it--isn't it a lot easier to produce brochures than cars?!!!

soozpk

You would think so. Actually, Mopar hasn't really been promoting them very well. One
would expect to see 300 ads plastered in all the auto mags. They're not. The only 300
magazine ad I've encountered was the "Mystery Car" ad that directs you to a webpage.

fsmmcsi

D-C marketing people would probably say that they sell cars, not brochures. The brochures are expensive, and they would rather have people come in to see and drive the cars. They also would prefer to sell something on the lot, rather than have someone see all of the various choices and want to order a car equipped differently than what they have in stock. There are numerous high resolution photos on the web, and Edmunds has the complete list of options with pricing, so the brochure would not add any useful information.

soozpk

Quite the contrary, there are many people out there yet without computers, and,
the ones that do, don't surf to the relevant websites to find out Nor, do they read
car magazines. As you stated, they might very well want you to select from
their lot, but this car isn't found easily on lots at this point in time.
My estimation on the percentage of people at work, both men and women, who
didn't know what the new 300 was all about would be about 95%.

v8lincolnguy

A $60K 300C would be one heck of a performer. I'd like to see Chrysler build a hi-performance version of the 300 C Hemi just as Cadillac has done with the CTS-V. Since Lincoln doesn't seem to want to get into the high performance race with an SVT-like LS, I'd like to see Chrysler do so. Nothing like a good old horsepower rivalry between two(or three) American companies.

soozpk

It's ironic that you tack 20,000 for a "dream 300", as Mopar Performance has a
ready-to-go crate engine available. It's a 6.1 liter Hemi, rated 610 hp. It can be had
for 19,000 US dollars.

fsmmcsi

Don't forget that you would also need a strong enough transmission, a fabricated drive shaft, a fabricated new rear differential, fabricated drive shafts, and other rear end components, and it would be completely illegal on the road. Besides the $19,000 crate engine, you would need more than another $19,000 for the transmission and other parts.

soozpk

Yep, you're right in saying that, but I think Mopar would be able to put a nice package
together for a $60,000 300C "dream machine". The true dream machine is hopefully
just around the corner, in the Charger RT. The concept is good looking, and it
would be nice if Mopar can keep the price down. The new Pontiac GTO runs about
mid-30's; quite unaffordable for the younger set.

fsmmcsi

If D-C makes the Charger, and keeps very, very near to the stunningly beautiful concept, they will have a tremendous hit, but most of the buyers will be in their 40's and 50's, and will not mind paying in the middle to high $30,000 range, and over $40,000 with a 6.1 liter engine.

b4z

As of Friday 2110 300Cs have been produced.

shipo

Wow, 2110 300Cs!?! Geeze, how many 300 2.7s and 3.2s?

Best Regards,
Shipo

jcz1

Heard from a friend that the 300C was just featured on MTV's Cribs. Show airs again Wed night at 11 PM Eastern.

tibbune

Kinda sorta.

Dropped by the local dealership two weekends ago to inquire about the mysterious brochures, ended up dropping a deposit for one of the 300C's the dealer had "pre-ordered". I have in my hand an invoice and spec sheet of the vehicle (black 300C, sunroof, nav, protection group, yada and yada)...but I smell a semi-scam by the dealership.

I called Chrysler and asked for a build date for my VIN number, and Chrysler claims the VIN "isn't in our system". The dealer claims "well, that's the one they gave us for that vehicle"...and further assured me that when the car comes off the truck, I can slip into it, and leave half the stock tires embedded into his parking lot on my way to the rim shop.

I get the feeling this VIN is not valid at all, but perhaps the spec sheet is? Something fishy is afoot. Oddly enough, the dealer has assured me the car will be in by the end of March (raised eyebrows), but Chrysler's customer service people say the line won't even build 300C's until April. Somebody is lyin....err...misinformed. I see a post in here claiming that 2100 or so 300's have been produced....hopefully mine is amongst them.

BTW, $35,620, fully optioned 300C without the DVD system and the hands free phone option.

b4z

not claiming. 2110 built so far and over 750 last week. So they are ramping up production quickly.

soozpk

Welcome to the club, Tibbune. I placed my order for a 300C on Jan 16th. I stopped at the
dealership yesterday and found out that my order code is now "D", simply meaning that it's been put on a schedule for building. The dealership estimes the arrival will be mid-March. I have neither a VON or VIN number, but I'm satisified the dealership is being straight with me.

mikemullin6

Soozpk: You said you ordered your 300C on Jan 16th and still didn't have either a VON or VIN from his dealer. IF the order was placed by your dealer, they had the VON when the order was submitted on their computer. When your order reached D status, it had a VIN associated with it. Get the VON from your dealer and call Chrysler customer service and they'll get you the VIN and tell your the projected build date (pretty iffy at this time).

Good luck

tayl0rd

Tibbune said he was told no "300C"s will be built until April. They may very well be building just the lower trim 300s for now.

tibbune

Eh, in retrospect I am quite certain the "nice lady" I spoke with at Chrysler was reading from a 300C info sheet blanker than an Ethiopian menu. I specifically recall her using the term "I think" numerous times, and I doubt she'd be in customer service if that statement rang true.

Got that number for the Brampton Assembly plant handy? I'd like to call the source.

Meanwhile, I still need to hammer out the financing details with my dealership. Has anyone heard whether or not the O percent deals will be available for this model?

shammy323

All models of the 300 is being built at Brampton right now.

rcf8000

Do they have indoor storage for 2100 cars at Brampton? Seems like they might have to start shipping them out soon.

soozpk

tibbune asked: . Has anyone heard whether or not the O percent deals will be available for this
model?

I would doubt it, at least at this point in time. Looking at the new Durango
here, and it shows the following interest rates available from Mopar.

This offer is good thru 3/31/04

36 months / 1.9%
48 months / 2.9%
60 months / 3.9%

My guess is that it will be the same as Durango.

http://www.dodge.com/incentives/global.sessionid=Incentives6D6068- 2A6A6C323DFF05505600005000/GetPurchaseIncentives.jam?Brand=Dodge&- amp;SalesMarket=us&Language=EN&PostalCode=58201&Year=- 2004

By the way, tibbune, Did you call Brampton???

tibbune

I called the number previously posted, left a maessage on the machine that answered, haven't heard back.

They may be busy....oh I don't know...building cars?

I did a search on AutoTrader.com for 2005 300s, and found 179 of them being "pre-sold" by dealers. No pics, so they obviously don't have the cars but rather pre-ordered them and are offering them on the "if you're building it, they will come" philosophy.

Looking at the VIN numbers listed on that site, compared to mine, and then cross referencing the build numbers from autonews.com, I think I can tell when my car will be built.

Firt letter of the VIN must be the country of origin, "2" for Canada (1 is USA!)

Next leter "C", for Chrysler.

Next number "3" for 300.

The next five numbers look to be options, and I noticed the more expensive models being sold have an "H" at the end of those five numbers, which must mean HEMI. ("J" = V6?)

The next two numbers of the VIN look to be the year "05"...all the cars at Autotrader share these two numbers as well as the first 3 numbers.

The next letter "X"...I have no idea, perhaps the plant's designation or some sort of shipping method?

The last five numbers of the VIN certainly look to be the sequence. Coincidentally, the numbers posted for sale on Autotrader all seem to hover around 1000. "10898", "10766", "11342" and so on.

Autonews shows that as of last Friday, 2110 300s had been built, at a pace of around 750 a week. They should reach around 2860 units by tomorrow.

My car is in the 3400s, so if I'm reading these numbers right, and their pace doesn't fluctuate too much, my car will be built....let's see...carry the five, subtract the three...next Friday.

Crap! Friday!?! You never want a car built on a Friday....damn!

pat

Folks, I've been told by my management that posting telephone numbers isn't the thing to do. I've had to remove the posts here that included phone numbers.

Thanks for your understanding - if you have any questions or comments, please email me and don't post them.

Appreciate it!

elemint

How did you pay $35,620 when the price is $23,595 - $32,995??? Are you one of the reasons cars are overpriced?

elemint

Will the 300c come in a Wagon or will that be only the magnum? I hope not. I think the dodge is an ugly version.

shipo

Hmmm, I actually think that, while I like both, the Magnum is ever so slightly better looking than the 300C. My business partner on the other hand, cannot stand the 300C while he really likes the Magnum. Go figure. ;-)

In any event, it is my understanding that if you want a Chrysler wagon, you have to opt for the Pacifica. If you want a Chrysler and a Hemi, you have to opt for the 300C. If you want a wagon AND a Hemi, your only option is the Magnum.

I hope his helps.

Best Regards,
Shipo

soozpk

Ending my lunch hour here, so making this quick. Just off the top of my head here, elemint,
but the 300C wagon was to be only available overseas, NOT here in North America. I seem
to remember Chrysler stating that they are willing to do an about- face on that. Even though it's not officially "sold" stateside, if a customer wants one, he can get one. I may be wrong
on that, and hopefully my collegues here on this board may know for sure.