Chrysler 300/300C

fsmmcsi

csj2002, rather than take on debt, why not pay cash for a good used car? I certainly wish I had invested all of the money I wasted when I was in my 20's and 30's making car payments. Also, if you wait a while, used G35s and 300s will be readily available for 60% (or less) of the new price.

cjs2002

I graduated in 2002, and this was to be part of my graduatoin present. I have a full ride @ Notre Dame so college tuition isn't a factor nor is room and board. my parents agreed to pay 6K towards a new car (rather than just buying me one, I wanted the experience of owning and paying for the car myself) yet since my father started his own manufacturing business I've been forced to wait till now, nearly two years later. in all honesty I could go and pay cash for a 04 530 series but, don't wish to blow all my money on a car. thus I'm choosing to lease a car and keep whats left in the bank and have the payments directly removed from my account (also this way I still gain interest on my money in the bank) I work 2 jobs and help my dad with his company and come march everything in the company will be rolling on track "knock on wood" (don't want to jinx us) I' saved up through out my jr and senior year so I could do this and now I'm finally going to get my chance. I just want to make sure the car I'm getting is what I want. if you have any other comments feel free to provide them like I said I appriciate all the help and I take it all into consideratoin.

oedipus1608

hmm...for a college graduate you sure don't know how to spell.

soozpk

cjs2002 wrote: thus I'm choosing to lease a car

Bad move. Leasing makes sense if your company subsidizes the lease payments. Leasing is not for the average working person, as you will not be acquiring any equity in the car. In the
end you will own nothing.....

fuzzywuzzy

"Bad move. Leasing makes sense if your company subsidizes the lease payments. Leasing is not for the average working person, as you will not be acquiring any equity in the car. In the
end you will own nothing....."

Leasing has some good advantages. True you don't own the car, but in today's market would you really want to? Leasing isn't for eveyone, & you need to be smart about it, but follow those rules & leasing is a great thing.

cjs2002

just to let you know I haven't graduated from college yet, graduated HS but not college lol. Anyways this is the internet and there are trillions of mis spellings so I'm not too concern with my exact spellings. next on to the leasing business. I drive aproximately between 11-12 thousand miles a year so it doesnt make sense for me to own a car for a few years and turn around and sell it. plus with my father owning his own business I do running for him here and there and some of the car expenses can be written of through that. Although my dad is also looking into getting a Nissan Armada he can use for business, because as of now he uses my car to take out customers in. (which is how he can write off some of the expenses in my new car)I don't drive insane amount of miles and if I didn't go to school @ Notre Dame I'd have even less miles from driving home on weekends. I'm a bit of a freak when it comes to taking care of my car, I can't stand to have things left unfixed or unchecked and its a must that the car gets cleaned @ least once a week (even in winter). my mom leases and is a teacher and it works out great for her, and I drove only a little more than her so it should work out fine for me as well. (or @ least I hope so) thank you for your words of wisdom and for-warning (yea I know theres probably spelling mistakes I'm majoring in Science education not English ]
thanks

shipo

Don't sweat the misspellings, I have been lurking around the TownHall off and on for almost six years (through 5 different vehicles) and I cannot tell you how bad some of the spelling is on some of the boards for the highest end cars (S-Class, 7-Series, Lexus...) where you would assume some of the highest education. For that matter, I have even been known to "Fat Finger" word or two here and there and I try to be extra careful about my posts. Maybe my being a college drop out explains my occasional mess up, deliberate or otherwise. ;-)

Brest Regards,
Shipo

tornado25

For the fun of it, I went the Chrysler website and priced a 300C as I would purchase it. Only thing not included was navigation, engine heater, power pedals...might have been a couple other small ones (like smoker's group or something). Anyway, that came to 36xxx. I've priced a Cadillac CTS a coule times and everytime I'v pushed it to 37 or 38xxx.

Of course, there is the argument of whether of Chrysler can demand Cadillac pricing, but it seems to me that a V8 Hemi w/ stability and all the other good things you'd want on this car makes it a much better deal.

cjs2002

to me it doesn't seem necisary to get the hemi I'm thinking that the 3.5 V6 will be plenty for my needs. But we'll just have to wait and see how everything plays out. anyone know of any auto shows comming to ohio any time soon. I'd like to see if the 300 will be there. plus my dad wants to go and take a look at all the cars in one spot and it seems like an auto show is the best way.

fuzzywuzzy

The 3.5 version might get more power to the ground since it's a different tranny, & it's RWD then the same engine in the 300M. However the weight of the car will be more, so it might offset any gain.

tomcat630

Leasing is best for cars with high resale value, since the rates are dependant on depreciation and residual value of the car.

shipo

"Leasing is best for cars with high resale value, since the rates are dependant on depreciation and residual value of the car."

Tell me about it. My business partner pays only $10 per month less on the lease of his Dodge 2002 Intrepid vs. my 2002 530i. Go figure.

Best Regards,
Shipo

soozpk

I see that Mopar uses three differnt axle ratios in the 300 series. It surprizes me
that a base 300 comes with a 3.90 gear ratio. I guess that's to give the vehicle a
little bit more punch. Okay, but then the 300C gets a 2.82 rear end, which to me
is what's generally used on economy cars. I wonder why the 3.90 rear axle isn't
then offered as an option? Guessing again that they designed the new Hemi not to
be too bad a gas-guzzler, and merely matched it to ecnomical gearing. Guessing
again that swapping the 2.82 for the 3.90 may eventually become a popular thing to
do.

intrepidspirit

I know nothing about this subject. But I am wondering if the ratio difference might have anything to do with the operation of the Hemi...it runs on 4 cylinders until more power is needed, at which time it reverts to 8 cylinders...

Just a thought.

soozpk

The truth of the matter is, if you order a Hemi C, the chances are good you're not too concerned
about mles per gallon to begin with. You're right though, in that this new generation Hemi
was designed with improved mpg in mind, along with a decent amount of hp to satisfy those from the "old school". I was just pondering on rear axle ratio swapping as a viable option for those that may want to push the 300C further. How about lake pipes???? LOL

fsmmcsi

Don't forget the transmission gear ratios. I don't know if the Hemi and the V6 cars will use the same transmission, but even if it is the same, the ratios could still be different. What matters if not just final drive ratio or just the transmission ratio (in each gear), but the overall ratio obtained by multiplying the transmission grar ratio by the final drive ratio. Does anybody know the transmission gear ratios?

bnet504

the hemi will use a five speed transmission, and the v6 cars will use four speeds. that information was on the 300 specifications page on chrysler.com, but it doesn't show the gear ratios

soozpk

You may have indirectly brought up something else. There evidently is a lot of electronics / computerization going into that final drive ratio that may need to be addressed. Just swapping rear axle gears like 30 years ago may not be that easy. You made a good point.

fsmmcsi

Yes, Soozpk, when changing final drive gears on modern cars, you may also need to also change the sensor for the antilock brakes (if on the driveshaft end of the differential), and to reprogram the computer.

setzer

does anyone else think that the new 300's front is plain ugly? I think the rear has style, but the front is scary!

fsmmcsi

My initial reaction was the same, but then I have only seen the car in Photos. I had the same reaction to the first photos of the 2002 Mercury Mountaineer I now drive. It looked horrible in photos, but fine once I was standing in front of one. I suspect that it will be the same with the 300. You certainly will not confuse it with other vendors cars, many of which are too similar.

fsmmcsi

I found an excellent group of photos of the 300 indoors and outdoors (click once to enarge in a new window, then again to further enlarge):

http://www.germancarfans.com/photos.cfm/photoid/3031003.001/merce- - - - des-benz/1.html

My favorites are the side and rear view on a two lane winding through hills with oak trees, and the front and side view on a road with mountains in the background, plus the engine bay.

soozpk

The front of the 300 looks okay, even though a close look shows a shelf, of sorts, is created by
the bumper. This would have a tendency for snow to collect and build in the headlight area. This design is probably no better or worse compared to other vehicles. From a sideview, the
area in front of the fenderwell is bluntly short, caused by the 50 / 50 weight distribution sought by the engineers to aid in stability. That is a quite radical design. I'm used to a longer
fender area before the fenderwell.

hotrodlincoln1

in the front. If you like the look of Bentley (as I do), this is a good thing.

I've gathered that some folks don't care for it.

bnet504

the other day i was watching MTV with my son and i saw the 300 in a video, i believe it was by someone named g-unit. Has anyone else in here ever seen it?

fastdriver

I was just made aware of this topic from the 300M forum. Thought you might like to see some more pics of the 300C in a color OTHER than that ugly grey/blue grey color that they keep showing it in. Took these yesterday at the Providence, RI car show.

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/fastdriver2_99/detail?.dir=/d09e- - &.dnm=8838.jpg

fastdriver

fsmmcsi

Thanks fastdriver, although I like the gray-blue. I also like Jade, and think the two tone Jade & Gray interior would be very nice.

soozpk

Thanks very much for those pics FD. Just looking at those Hemi C badges makes me drool...

fastdriver

fsmmcsi & soozpk-

You're welcome. If I knew HOW to work this "point and shoot" Nikon 5400, the pictures would have been even better!

I think that the 300C is one of those cars where the color will be the determining choice whether one gives it a second look or not.

fastdriver

bigmike5

Do yourself a favor and get a 2004 300M loaded for about $24K. Better in all respects except the Hemi engine than the ugly 300C. I've had mine for 5.5 years and 64K miles, and it has done very well by me and has gotten 4 unsolicited comments over the years from passerbys at gas stations that "its the best looking car I've ever seen." I just smile and cruise, basking in the glow of my baby. You can't beat the price for a 2004 now.

fsmmcsi

The old 300M crash test results are bad, while those for the new 300 should be excellent. If all you want is a front drive car at a good price, then a new Accord EX V6 should be at the top of your list.
See:

http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/00030.htm

v8lincolnguy

Noticed Edmunds now has 300C pricing. Looks like a well optioned 300C Hemi can be had for around 36K. Mega bucks for any recent Chrysler, but this one looks promising. First saw one in an auto mag about a year ago and was impressed. My question, is the 4 speed automatic used in V6 models the same 4 speed unit used in the 300M and other 3.5 liter equipped cars today?

svevar

I believe that the 4 speed automatic transmission to be used on the 300, 300 Touring, and 300 Limited models is the same as used in the Jeep Liberty and V6 Dodge Durangos (and Grand Cherokees?), but not the same as used in Chrysler's front wheel drive cars.

bigmike5

The Acura is not in the same class of vehicles as the 300M according to the crash site. And the crash site results indicate that the vehicle is acceptable with one marginal rating on lower legs, but I just wonder how far back the seat was set for the dummy. Anyway, others report tranny problems with the Acuras, so its a crap shoot in many cases. But, I just know that my M is bigger, has lots more room and has been a great sports sedan ride. I would also shy away from a first year build on a new platform, although I couldn't help myself with the M and took the plunge when it first came out. But a college student looking for a cool ride that is practical couldn't do better than an 04 M at $23-24K new.

cjs2002

according to edmuds the 300C with the hemi base price is 32K something which isn't 36K. I was talking to the dealorship and was told that chrysler expects the limited and special editions to be the best sellers after the first gotta have the hemi buyers are gone. I'm looking at the limited with the 250HP engine. I think that it will have the more than enough power, plus the fact that the with out the hemi engine the cars a bit lighter as well. i don't know the exacts but I'm begining to look into it more closely. as for the 300M not to knock anyone but I hate them with a passion, I've known a number of people to have them and trade them back in. all said they were plauged with problems ranging from transmition to engine to power'd equipement. I don't think I could bring myself to get a 300M my uncle had one and was hit in it, he was fornunate but as the other person on the board said they are terrible in crasshes. (everyone I've talked to has had a 300M ranging from 99 - 2003). I just don't trust them. thank you though

soozpk

This 300 pic shows chrome trim along the rear fenderwell, which seemed to be missing on the
 300 pics taken by FastDriver. (See post #343 above)

 http://www.baileycar.com/chrysler_new_products_html.html

soozpk

Chrysler got into outsourcing parts back when Lee Iacocoa ran the show. It was / is basically
a sound business idea, provided your contracts are going to outfits with good quality control
practices. I bought a Dodge 400 in 1982. Whoever made the camshafts for the 2.2 engine
did a lousy job in the heat treating, and the 2.2 became notorius for cam replacement.
Add to this the various times Mopar pressured their suppliers to roll back the costs, but did
they expect to receive the same quality in return?? I believe Chrysler got it's act together in the
'90's, as I had very good luck with my '94 Lebaron, now with 120,000+ miles.

fsmmcsi

I suggested the Honda Accord, not the Acura TL, although both did well. Why buy a car with a bunch of acceptable or worse crash test results when nice cars with all good results are readily available at good prices?

Yes, the Limited and Special Edition will be lighter, offseting the less powerful engine, so the V6 will be fine, especially if you avoid the heavier options (e.g. the sunroof).

cjs2002

question ....

anyone know the dates of the Chicago Auto show... I'm thinking of taking a run down there?

nedc2

I was quite impressed with the exterior styling of the the new LX bodies. They're big, bold, defiantly American, and you won't mistake them for anything else on the road. There were a few driving around downtown Detroit at the NAIAS, and I was wondering what they would be like to drive in town, as opposed to open highway. But, having had the opportunity to sit in the 300C and Dodge Magnum I was shocked at how poor the visibility from inside these cars was, they have long straight hoods, like an old American car, coupled with a dash that's almost as long as those on the cab forward cars, this combined with a very high beltline, thick A, B, and C pillars, and the dropped roofline give these vehicles some of the worst visibility I've seen on any mainstream auto produced in the past twenty years. I would hate to try and parallel park one of these babies without some sort of electronic assistance. I'd love to hear from someone whose actually driven one what the experience is like.

tornado25

"according to edmuds the 300C with the hemi base price is 32K something which isn't 36K."

Yep, but lincolnguy's 36K figure was for a well-optioned 300C. I built one on Chrysler's website for the same amount and the only thing I didn't get was nav, power pedals and smoker's group (I think--there might have been a couple others). The 2 big costs added to the 32k 300C base are the sunroof and premium sound. Most of the good stuff, though, is already incl--like heated seats, etc. I'm not sure I'd want to spend 32k on a car and then not have a decent stereo.

soozpk

Tornado wrote: not have a decent stereo.

My wife was disappointed, and surprised that Sound Group II doesn't come
with a cassette player. (Don't laugh, we don't chase technology too often)
At least, I don't see a cassette player as being integral with that system.

fsmmcsi

Until more of us can sit in and drive the cars, we will not know. However, I do not think the roof is actuually lower, but appears to be lower because of the higher beltline.

I do know that the Pacifica is very difficult to see out of - I drove two of them, and gave up trying to back one into a space in the dealer's parking structure.

300 rentals will be reportedly be available starting in April in several cities, so I will rent one for a day or two, and drive it all over southern CA before deciding if I want to order one.

If the visibility is bad, I will consider shorting D-C stock, as it would be a very costly error. I don't think Chrysler/Dodge can remain viable with just the minivans, Pickup, and Durango.

dukeofdallas

I've seen the music video as well. The 300C makes a brief (5 seconds maybe) cameo near the end. They don't show the whole car plus it's dark but that grill is unmistakeable.

fuzzywuzzy

Isn't the 300 supposed to be Chryslers flagship car? If so what is it doing in rental duty?

tornado25

I agree with fuzzy. They cannot put this vehicle into rentals--not even the base model with the 2.7. The car looks the same across trim lines, so people who see it at airports aren't going to shell out 36K for the 300C (generally). I mean, the Stratus and Sebring, Concorde--perfectly servicable rental cars.

The only way I could see this working is if they sell them to Hertz Prestige, since even Jag S-types and Lincoln LS' show up as rentals. But why do they feel the need to put the flagship (starting at 25K or not) into rental fleets.

Sigh. I love Chrysler. Happily will stay within the Chrysler family for my vehicles, but this is a head-scratcher.

rcf8000

There are plenty of Cadillacs and Lincolns in rental fleets, so I don't see where putting 300s in rental fleets should present a problem to anybody.

fsmmcsi

The rentals will be loaded cars (probably 300C) in selected upscale markets - Palm Springs, Miami, Etc. to expose the new products (the 300, the minivans, and the crossfire Convert.) to those target markets. They reportedly plan to have 2000 of the 300s, with 2,500 minivans, and 500 Crossfires.

rcf8000

I think rental 300Cs is a very good idea. If I were going to rent a luxury car I would take a 300C just out of curiosity. It ought to be a lot more fun than a Town Car. And drivers get a chance to find out if they can adjust to the visibility restrictions. (Can't be any worse than a Hummer, can it?!)

intrepidspirit

"I agree with fuzzy. They cannot put this vehicle into rentals--not even the base model with the 2.7. The car looks the same across trim lines, so people who see it at airports aren't going to shell out 36K for the 300C (generally)."

This has basically been my concern in previous posts. With 4 trims starting at $23k, the 300 is destined to be a fleet car. And the similarity of all 4 trims to each other is my biggest concern with the 300. I, too, would be very reluctant to shell out $36K for the 300C when the only apparent visual difference would be badging.

It's like they say in real estate -- never buy the most expensive house in an area -- because the cheaper houses will reduce the value of yours.

The 4-trim strategy may become very successful volume-wise for DC; however, it will turn off some potential customers of the high-end 300C. That includes me.