Chrysler 300/300C

jjgittes

That scenario I think could work for this car. In fact, I don't think anything else can possibly work. The bottom line is that the 300 has to give much more for less relative money. $30k plus (much less $40k - yeah right) is still a lot of money, and most people who have that to spend on a sedan I don't think will be shooting over to their local chrysler dealer with checkbook in hand to sign up for years of payments on one of these. I think chrysler's best shot is pulling male camry/accord/american sedan etc. buyers up a little to this car for the RWD, maybe a v8 and some agressive styling, than pulling premium brand $30k plus buyers over to the 300. Guess we'll see...

rusty104

rear wheel drive, 380 watt Boston Acoustics stereo, hid, 0-60 in 6.3 sec, 120 inch wheelbase, 5 speed auto, Mercedes designed suspension and track control, built on a new production line which should produce highly improved quality control - what are competitors for this car which are less than 50K?

jjgittes

Re: competition under $50K: Price the new 300 over $30k or so, and Chrysler will find out, like it did with the Pacifica at $40k that can be had for $23k now. The 300 is not a Mercedes, no matter how many parts it shares. If the 300, decked out, goes for much more than $30k, it will be Chrysler's Mercury Marauder. People who spend that much on a sedan care about the brand. "Chrysler" is not even on the radar screen.

andys120

bradkurtz

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20031- 205/RCHRY05/TPBusiness/Canadian

See this article for possible pricing. It is a Canadian pub so I hope those prices are Canadian (27,000 base for Magnum, 29,000 for 300 to 35,000 for Magnum and 42,000 for 300C) as they would be good deals when converted to US. Problem is, they are likely US and are about 10-20% too high for the brand cahe. They are offering $4,500 back on 300Ms so I really hope they have not priced this above the 300M, please Chrsyler, I want to buy American, give me a reason!

The new Acura TL is one amazing car at 32,000, your six cylinder 250 horsepower versions need to be 10% below that (Touring and Limited) to really compete. Acura dealers are also head and shoulders above yours.

rusty104

Forget about the pricing on this car; it didn't live up to its billing. It was slow off the line, based on an antique platform had a bad stereo system and didn't even offer a sunroof as an option. Obviously pricing is an issue in a purchase decision for most people, but you still have to have a desirable quality car. I think that DC will have a hit on their hands with the 300/Magnum product. I bought stock in DCX six months ago because of what they are rolling out in 2004 so I am putting my money where my mouth is.

rayainsw

FWIW, I have again recently surveyed the sports sedan market as my current ride approaches 23,000 miles at about 20 months.

I have driven current versions of most sport sedans in the $30 – 45K range. I was even invited to ‘beat on’ the new BMW 530i Sports last Fall at Road Atlanta. (Fun, but the exterior and interior styling are just NOT to my taste.)

Anyway – I am coming back to the ‘new and improved’ Lincoln LS V8 Sport as the top contender. I have previously owned one, a Y2K, and I certainly enjoyed the car in many respects. And they have effectively addressed nearly every criticism I had of my Y2K car.

Given the fact that an equivalent 2004 is a bit more expensive, even before end-of-model-year discounting and cash back of $6K, and has no enhancements of interest to me, a 2003 for something like $32 - $33K (V8 Sport w/moonroof – list: $41,860 w/destination but before Tax, etc.) looks like a screaming bargain – for me.

Just my $.02.
Cheers,
- Ray
Still trying to find time to visit a local dealer . .

soozpk

Your link states: Starting price: $29,000 / Top end: $42,000

You had me wondering also about the currency rate. The rate of exchange is about
$.60 Canadian per $1.00 US. That would have the 300C starting at 17,400, with a high of
25,200 (US), so that answers that question. The prices evidently are in US dollars.

I have one month to go before I place an order....1/26/04, my wife's birthday, no less, and
I've yet to get hold of a 300C catalog. I do hope DC puts an "introductory / incentive"
allowance on it; that would be nice. I don't expect a rebate to be put in place until later
in the model year, if it seems the model isn't moving.

rusty104

Actually the exchange rate is .75

svevar

I think Chrysler has said pricing will run from around $25,000 (for 2.7L) to $35,000 (for 5.7L). Having experienced difficulty selling Pacificas for over $40K, Chrysler probably won't price a fully loaded 300C much more than the mid to high $30K range.

xmf314

Having seen several 300s being tested on the streets around where I live, I don't think they will sell on styling. The vehicles look like big bricks to me - much too boxy and angular. Also, I'm not crazy about the "chopped-top" look - Okay for a hot rod, but not a large American sedan.

This is disappointing since DC started with a clean sheet of paper. It's also surprising considering the so-called "Cab Forward" LH models were revolutionary and handsomely styled cars when they were introduced in 1993.

I foresee Pacifica-type rebates out of the starting gate for the new 300s, however I hope I'm wrong.

tomcat630

The 2004 Durangos are selling pretty good without the "Pacifica type rebates".

soozpk

Quite surprisingly, Dodge doesn't offer 0% financing on the new Durango. What they offer is:
1.9% / 36 months
2.9% / 48 months
3.9% / 60 months

So, I'm going to assume this will probably apply to the 300 series also.

jjgittes

There is a big write up on the 300c in today's San Diego Union Tribune's special section on the upcoming auto show. HOWEVER, the article on the 300c still referred to it as a "concept" and gave the same old non-specific PR type info that has been floated for the last year. Considering that this car will apparently be released for sale in a few months, it is kind of pathetic that the info put out there by Chrysler isn't more specific, along with prices, and the pictures a bit more representative of how most of the cars will look (i.e. I'd be surprised if most have those 20" wheels). Overall, a missed opportunity.

charlesf1

Yes Ruski they were letting everyone sit in it.

bmorisette

Me want more info! Ugh! I know it's the holiday's folks, but I'm pretty sure none of us had a 300C under the ol' tree last month. Has anyone heard anything about the new 300? Production info? Pricing info? Anything? I'm desperate for a friggin' brochure!!!

Just venting.

rusty104

Hopefully Otto will get us some info when he returns to work (which I think was to be this week). For what it's worth, the latest Car and Driver said 25k for a base 300 and less than 35k for a 300C, both to go on sale in April with AWD availability in the late summer. It doesn't seem to make sense though that there would be three months of production before they start selling them. I guess we'll have to wait for Otto for the latest.

svevar

I happened to be at a Chrysler dealer for service this past Saturday morning and I was looking around in the showroom to pass the time. The management was conducting a meeting with the sales staff in a back room, but luckily (for me) they left the door open. I overheard that Chrysler would open the Chrysler 300, PT Convertible, and Dodge Magnum websites on Monday after releasing info at the Detroit Auto Show on Monday. Also, pricing should be available in about a week. The manager said that the 300 and PT Convertible launches were very important, and that all potential customers should be treated with extra care.

svevar

As promised, Chrysler released info on the 300 Series as well as the Dodge Magnum at a 1:30PM press conference at the Detroit Auto Show.

Here's the some pricing/info for each model:

1. Chrysler 300
    - $23,595
    - 190HP, 190ft-lbs 2.7L V6 w/ 4 Speed Automatic
    - 0-60MPH in 10.7 seconds
2. Chrysler 300 Touring
    - $27,395
    - 250HP, 250 ft-lbs 3.5L V6 w/ 4 Speed Automatic
    - 0-60MPH in 8.5 seconds
3. Chrysler 300 Limited
    - $29,890
    - Same powertrain as Touring model
4. Chrysler 300C
    - $32,995
    - 340HP, 390ft-lbs 5.7L V8 w/ Multi Displacement System
    - 5 Speed Automatic w/ AutoStick
    - 0-60MPH in 6.3 seconds

All models include 17" aluminum wheels (18" on 300C), RWD w/ available AWD, short- and long-arm front suspension, five-bar multi-link rear suspension, rack and pinion steering, tilt-telescoping steering wheel, 8-way power driver's seat, and analog clock.

For full details, click here.

For more details on the Hemi engine with Multi Displacement System, click here.

jjgittes

Prices look pretty good. With a couple thousand in incentive/rebates, they would look very good. Too bad the base engine doesn't have more guts. Chrysler needs to remember it is competing in a world of 240hp 6 cyl accords for 22k. Also, too bad all the models don't have leather. In any event, I'm still looking forward to test driving one. I like the 300 much more that the new ford 500, which looks pretty bland (although the new stang with 300hp and a good price could make me give up two doors). Anybody have a firm date on when the 300s will hit dealers?

rayainsw

I don't see it listed . . .
- Ray
A bit suspicious of 6.4 sec w/ 340hp and 390 TQ . . .

soozpk

jjgittes wrote: Anybody have a firm date on when the 300s will hit dealers?

My local dealer said that they have one coming in Feb. Also, DCX will be
start accepting orders on 1/26/04.

rctennis3811

Though this is a bit early, you can now build your own 300C at chrysler.com . I find that interesting coming only days after the car was released!

rayainsw

. is quoted as: 4018#
hmmm - hefty.
Partly explains the 0-60 time quoted . . .
- Ray
Hoping for better from 5.7L 340 hp

tornado25

I'd tend to agree on expectations. I don't know the weight off the top of my head, but the Lincoln LS (just as a comparo) has V8 with 280hp (I believe it's 280) and it supposedly does 0-60 in 6.42. So where does the 60hp in the 300C go? Weight can be the only answer.

I can't complain about a car like this getting 6.3, though. Really, a car with this many appointments only goes faster if it's more expensive European or small, hi-revving 4-banger. Sure 0-60 in 5 secs is awesome, but it is worth it to be driving a Neon? I have a Neon now, but I wouldn't pay $25000 for a Neon that does 5 sec 0-60. I would pay $35000 for a 300C that does 0-60 a second slower.

I did just think of a better comparo for the 300C and that's the CTS. It has a 255hp V-6 that turns 0-60 very close or a few tenths slower than 6.3. That, I guess now that I think about it, makes 6.3 all the more puzzling. It SHOULD be faster...

dukeofdallas

$33k is a great price for the Hemi C. I can see myself in one after about a year or two of depreciation. I'm thinking of a '96 Impala SS to bridge the gap.

b4z

The average CTS will 0-60 in about 6.7-6.8 secs.

I have driven a '04 and it was pretty strong.

I also feel that the 300c may seriously cut into CTS sales.
Roomier car for less/same money.

CTS sold 49,000 in 2003 vs. 37,000 in 2002.
But December sales were off noticeably.

rusty104

The rear axle gear ratio is a low 2.82, raise that and your 0-60 time can improve to less than 6 sec. What is the trade off? gas mileage, higher engine revs and wear and a lower top end. I dont think anyone would miss a lower top end than 153 though. Infiniti Q45 2002 model 4000lbs w/340hp 333tq, 0-60 6.7sec.

rayainsw

Actually, I do not expect that you would lose any top end. Very few currently available sedans are geared to attain top speed in top (typically a deep overdrive) gear. Top speed is often attained at (much) lower than redline rpm.

In cases like this, changing the final drive to a higher (numerically) gear can actually increase top speed . . . allowing the car to come closer to peak HP rpm.

Cheers,
- Ray
Unlikely to attain 153 mph anywhere near metro Atlanta . . .

tornado25

"The average CTS will 0-60 in about 6.7-6.8 secs."

Hmm. I guess it was faster than that with the new 3.6. Chalk one up for the 300C.

300h

According to consumersguide.com, an Audi A6 4.2 does 0-60 in 7.0 seconds and a 2003 BMW 540 (auto) in 6.5 seconds. I would say 6.3 for a "domestic" sedan is rather impressive...

soozpk

Well, I'm all set and ready to place my order for a 300C here.
Got it amost figured out......

I was thinking of getting the Navigation system, but I just
can't see spending $2,130 to take the place of my Rand-McNally.
(The Navigation system is packaged with the 6-CD sound system).

I want to get a conventional spare also, but the DC 300 website
only shows a compact spare as being available. Guessing one
needs to order a rim / tire at the parts dept to achieve that.
At least I'm hoping the trunkwell will hold a conventional spare.

The choice of colors are poor also. I was leaning on the Titaniam,
but If you paint on large white stars on it's front doors, and write US ARMY on it, you'd swear it was a military vehicle. So, I'm up in the air yet on that.

I still don't have a catalog; with production a week away, should be soon, I'd guess.

300h

I too am disappointed with the color selection. I like the color (grey/steel) of the concept however, it looks different on Chrysler's website. I'm not a gold fan but a picture of a pre-production gold 300c on conceptcarz is gorgeous.

soozpk

There's a PT Cruiser in town here that's of a brilliant gold color; it's very flashy, and is sure an
eyecatcher. I don't think I'd want something that flashy. There's a purple Intrepid at work
that's a beauty also. I'd like to see what a dark green metallic 300 would look like too. Surely,
they could've came up with a better color selection. .

rusty104

I guess I would say that grey is not my favorite color, yet auto makers have headed in that direction for interior colors. Chrysler is not alone in that regard. I prefer a red or black interior with a red exterior and a blue or black interior with a blue exterior but it is not meant to be.

soozpk

Just for the hell of it, I checked on the colors of three other models:

Sebring / PT Cruiser each have TEN colors to choose from.

The Pacifica has ELEVEN.

So, maybe they're still working on the 300 colors yet.

msgreen

seems to be one of the most obvious issues facing the new 300. If you can buy a 2.7 which looks pretty much like a hemi V8, to the casual observer, then you have a problem, at least to some degree on a car hopefully marketed to the masses. While I have not seen a new 300 in person yet - but hope to do so soon - I am already coming to the conclusion that this is a "cheap car", which happens to offer a "big motor". I truly hope that I am wrong, but early feedback from true fans suggests that this probably an "in the ball park guesstimate"...

300h

Audi, BMW and Mercedes have always offered smaller V6 engines in their midsized sedans but I don't hear any complaints that a 530 looks like a 540. In fact with the sport package on the 530, there is virtually no visual indication of the powerplant other than the rear badge, for that matter with the Mercedes either. Audi's A6 4.2 has wider fenders to distinguish it from the V6 models but that is partly because they had to widen the front end to fit the engine. Granted, there are no "fleet" versions of those cars however, I have riden in a couple E-class Mercedes taxis in Europe.

shipo

Not to put too fine a point on it, but BMW has never put a V6 in any car that I'm aware of. The 530i in my garage has an I6, which is admittedly less space efficient compared to a V6 (or even a small V8 for that matter). That said, the I6 is one of the few engine configurations that has all of its reciprocating masses perfectly balanced, and as such, it is a complete joy to drive.

Best Regards,
Shipo

300h

My mistake, I know that BMW uses and always has used a I6. You won't here me bash any of the previously mentioned vehicles either, they are all wonderful cars. I like the fact that we are comparing Chrysler's future/new linup to them. As a longtime MOPAR fan I hope it to be a realistic comparison.

shipo

No worries. ;-)

I too am a long time Mopar fan, and find the 300C to be quite intriguing. My only two squawks are the styling, which might take me a while to get used to (but not anywhere near as long as the new E60 5-Series BMW, UGH!), and the lack of a manual transmission.

Best Regards,
Shipo

bigmike5

Hope DC gets smart and skips the 300 C and instead produces the ME-412 they unveiled in Detroit this week. Now that is a good replacement for the 300M and only a few dollars more--like $400K.

300h

I've liked the styling since about the 3rd day after pictures of the concept originally showed up on the internet. I have not seen one in person though, Chrysler pulled it from the local car show at the last minute. My concerns are fit and finish and rattles, I hate chasing down rattles.

shipo

Maybe they should let their MiniVan group build the 300. We have two Caravans, one from 1998 with 80K miles (mostly driven in and around NYC, bad roads and all) and a 2003 with just 14K. Both of them are as rock solid as my 530i in squeek and rattle department.

Best Regards,
Shipo

b4z

Reminds me of a mid 50s Packard Caribbean.
Would like to see a slightly different front end treatment.

jjgittes

I'm thinking Chrysler ought to just dump the weak base 6 cyl for this car and go only with the more powerful 6, and the hemi. Price the 6 cyl at about $24-25, and Hemi at about $28-29, make leather standard for both, and have as the only option navigation, and maybe a special stereo for the Hemi. It could fill a nice niche just above cam-cords, and just below some of the entry level imports and the CTS. My $.02.

oedipus1608

The 2.7L 300 will be destined for fleets and nothing more.

ehaase

If I had my way, Chrysler would just forego the V6's in the 300 and Magnum and install a smaller displacement Hemi in the lower cost versions. I have read rumors about a Hemi V6 coming out eventually; hopefully that engine would replace the 2.7 and 3.5 V6's in these cars.

soozpk

Technically, they had (have) one, the Mitsubishi 3.0 V6 is a hemi-head, used quite extensively in the Mopar line-up throughout the 90's.

They could offer a destroked 5.7, and for history sake, have it
displace 331 ci, or bring the 5.7 up to 392 ci. I don't know
if the current 5.7L ended up being 354 ci by accident, or was
it taken from it's history books???

jjay4

looks great and priced lower than expected but I wonder if they will produce the AIRFLITE concept they had at the auto show last year.They are to come out with 8 new models this year;so far I only see the 300c and magnum as early 05 models. Would hate to get the 300c only to have the Airflite come out shortly after.